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Which DS to get for a dirt noob?

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MidlifeCrisis

MidlifeCrisis

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I have been a road rider since I was 18 yrs old and only ridden a dirt bike a handful of times. Now I'm seriously considering getting into dirt/trail riding before I get too old to do it. I started by looking at the CRF250L, but the air cooled thumpers don't look much heavier and might possibly be better suited for doing something like the MexTrek, which is what I would very much like to do.

I have road bikes for commuting and sport touring, so i just need road legal to ride to the dirt/trails and connect them if necessary.

I'm leaning towards DR650 for simplicity and aftermarket support. I'd prefer FI, but think carb for a single should be easy to live with. The seat height is adjustable and looks very noob friendly and easy to learn on.

Advice? Comments?
 
Depends if you want to haul your DS to the cool places or if you want to slab your DS there.

Since you live in Houston, you'll have to slab at least 2 hours to get anywhere half decent.

2+ hours of superslabbing is not fun on any DS, unless you enjoy punishing yourself.

If you have a truck, then you should look at hauling your DS to the cool places. In that case, WR-250R or DRZ-400S or XR650L. Stay away from Euro bikes, they're temperamental and pricy, not for newbies.
 
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If you're interested, here's my little spreadsheet that gives kind of an overview of the common stuff out there, used & new.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OI95BYgsUl9z89SaFrQxyF7OM57fU4AHDA3qDZU-mX8/edit#gid=0

My advice is think lightweight and as 2Smoke said above, don't get too tied up in the idea of something that can cope with the highway well, you'll only end up with a compromised trail bike. The Power to Weight is the critical element here.

I think your suggestion of a mid-weight thumper is the best but hey, I'm biased. There's a super nice XR400 for sale on the forum right now too.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'm definitely not liking superslabbing. I've got my 4X8 trailer set up for hauling my track bike, so that's what I'll use for, say, going down to McAllen for MexTrek.
 
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The CRF or the WR250R would be good user friendly dirtnoob rides. The DR650 is a bit heavy for learning handling on dirt, especially when you get into sand or rough uphill or downhill spots. One more consideration is how long the bike might sit between uses. Anything EFI is more friendly when parked for a couple of months at a time.
 
The standard required plug for the KLR... :yawn:

Almost anything is newer technology than a KLR650... but their simplicity is amazingly reliable.

They're top heavy under powered pigs... but with a smaller front and larger rear sprocket they can make pretty good use of all 35 angry horses.

They're heavier than almost anything else in the DS class... but you can load them down like a freighter's mule and they tend to not break.

They've been around since Moses got his learners permit... but the amount of documentation for any conceivable issue can fill volumes and there's a lot of fellow riders to offer help.

They just don't have the sex appeal of, well, almost anything else... but the used market is abundant and they're generally priced to include very little sex. One "sold" on here last week that was a whole bunch of motorcycle for the price.

* There's a lot of really good motorcycles out there and the term "dualsport" covers a pretty wide swath of territory these days. Everything from R1200GS "Big bikes" to "technically legal" plated dirt bikes - all fall into the group. Figure out where your personal ratio of dirt road to rock climbing falls on the DS funorama scale and then find the right tool for it. When you do, come ride with us! :rider:
 
I have changed my tune about this recently. I used to recommend one of the 650 bikes KLR,DR,or XRL ,as stated by others they are simple reliable and all have documented fixes for their shortcomings. The problem is they are heavy and if you don't have a lot of dirt experience you will be picking it up a lot. Picking these bikes up will beat you down fast.

I recommend a small used bike you can go find some back roads or riding area to develop your skills. If you shop around for a used 250 class bike you can ride it for a while and decide how much of this dirt you want to eat. The skills you develop will determine your success on a bigger bike later.

I am in the plated dirt bike crowd. I am limited to one bike and my kids ride dirt bikes, so I want something to ride trails with them and be able to DS when I can. Last year on the ET 450 I rode with three others in a group for three days in the mud. The bikes KLR, DR, DRZ ,and KTM 525 we all had a smile on our face.

It has been said, but I'll say it again get something and come out and ride. There's a great family of riders to help you.
 
The lighter the better. Low hOrsepower at first. Enjoy the dirt.
 
philipbarrett, thanks for that spreadsheet! It showed 4 lbs difference between the top 2 bikes on my list - CRF250L and DR650. I like the water-cooled and FI'ed CRF250L a lot from what I've read, but that DR650 just seem almost as dirt newbie friendly. A lot of the other DS's with 37-38" seat height are rather intimidating for my 30" inseam.

Is it feasible to convert a non-road legal dirtbike so it can be plated? I've worked on cars and bikes all my life so mechanical and electrical stuff don't scare me. What I don't have is a lot of free time to spend in the garage. I kinda like the idea of making a super lightweight dirt bike street legal, but I'd rather not have to burn 5 weekends to get there.

_RG_ said:
When you do, come ride with us! :rider:
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For sure I will. That is a big part of why I'm looking forward to get into DS. :mrgreen:

BTW, I like the versatility of the KLR, but I would like to cut my teeth first on a lighter more dirt-specific DS to see how I take to it. If it all goes well and I get a good hang of it, I'm not opposed to getting a bigger adv tourer so I can hang hard bags and add trail-riding ability to my sport touring.
 
12 horsepower will go around the world. The rest is just wheel spin. You'll be using the trailer for the long highway miles, arriving at your destination warm or cool, rested, and not aching. Smart move. Assumption is you'll be riding public roads on a street legal bike, not closed courses. Thinking ranch, farm, and logging roads here.

Pick any Japanese 200 to 400cc dual sport or trail bike, add lights to plate if necessary. Selection criteria need be no more complicated than ergos that fit or can be adjusted to fit, protection from damage to bike or rider if dropped, and comfort. Everything else is a compromise to rider preferences and nothing else really matters.

Few experienced street riders become skilled dirt riders. Too many bad habits. You definitely don't want to get out in the boonies and hurt yourself. The bike that makes dirt riding most survivable for a street rider is a TW200. Taller bars and a thicker seat improve the ergos for American size riders. If you just want to get out and play in the dirt, it will do. Nice used ones can be had for a song. You can get your money out when ready to move up, but you'd be surprised to know how many experienced riders have a TW in the garage between a large displacement road or adventure bike and a desert racer with lights, and the TW gets ridden more often than the other two combined. Usually the TW has been in the garage longer than three generations of the other two bikes' ancestors. There are reasons for that, even though TWs are generally purchased to ease the transition into dirt riding.

Now we've gotten way ahead of ourselves. Your first dirt bike should be a smoking deal on a small dirt bike, like a 100 to 150cc cheapo trail bike survivor. Hit up the MSF Dirt Bike course. Spend a few weekends riding closed courses so you'll likely be found pretty quickly if you ding yourself up. Between weekends and while the bruises heal watch the dirt riding training videos and read a book or three on riding dirt. Practice the necessary skills and deciding when to use them. LEARN to ride dirt. You'll never regret it.

Visit the start/finish events of a few group rides. Look and listen. What choices result in problems, especially damages to bikes and/or riders? Look and listen.

Sell the survivor and get your TW. Deal with the chain and ergo issues and ride. Take your time. Look. Listen. Think.

Expect this learning process to take half your weekends for a year, and lots of weeknights for training and bike prep and repairs. You'll be a skilled offroad rider with no broken bones and most of your skin, with the ability to handle whatever issues arrive, whether complex obstacles or mechanical problems. You'll also be knowledgeable enough to choose your next bike, the one you'll park next to the TW that exceeds the TW's abilities in the area you choose.
 
You need an xr400. They're light, nimble, simple, and stone friggin cold reliable.

Philip Barrett mentioned one for sale here....

It's a good bike. I built it. You can see every detail of the 50+ page build in the xr400 forum

I no longer own the bike, but the guy I sold it to wants a trials bike, and has no intention of riding on the road.

I rode it to work alot. And it'll cruise at 65, almost better than my 6 speed 525 does. And yes.... It's plated!

It's really a beautiful bike, and I'm here, if you ever have an issue with it.

Pretty extensive top end work, ie ported head, fresh valves, new moly coated piston. It has the cleanest wiring job ever put in a dual sport. Forks rebuilt, and set up with proper springs and oil for a 200-220lb rider. It has a brand new XRs only Mikuni pumper carb. Lots of powdercoated goodies, and carbon fiber stuff. New plastics. Seat, bearings, seals, fu$%&-+ new everything.

It's a solid bike. Period.


IMG_20150724_233713085_zpswgkdp7qg.jpg
 
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Oops forget all what I said. I meant it only for a motorcycle noob like me, not someone who's done years of some kind of riding.
 
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I have a 30" inseam. The 35" seat height and the 300 lb. weight of my KLX works well. I'm slow, hate broken bones, don't go beyond what I think I can handle. UlyBrad's MSR dirt course is the way to go. but get good dirt gear. It'll be be handy when you fall.
 
Zephyr said:
UlyBrad's MSR dirt course is the way to go. but get good dirt gear. It'll be be handy when you fall.
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+1 on both. Brad was also a big help in choosing & sizing a bike for me (in other words he told me not to be a furry kitten and learn how to deal with an elevated seat hight & kick start).

The gear is the difference between a fall and a good laugh or a fall and a trip to the ER. Soft tissue & internal organs do not like rocks.
 
Zephyr said:
I have a 30" inseam. The 35" seat height and the 300 lb. weight of my KLX works well. I'm slow, hate broken bones, don't go beyond what I think I can handle. UlyBrad's MSR dirt course is the way to go. but get good dirt gear. It'll be be handy when you fall.
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I second the KLX 250s if you can find one. Street Legal, reasonably light, electric start, reliable, can do highway (not that you would want to, 80 mph with it's neck wrung out but definitely not comfortable like a big bike), cheaper than a WR250R, lighter than a CRF250L.

You can take it all the way dirtbike like I did, or leave it street oriented. This got me through my offroad learning period with little effort. They sell really fast if/when you decide to upgrade and I got almost all of my money back out of it. Mine was sold within 24 hours and they drove from Austin to Houston to buy it. I had another solid offer from someone else in Austin right after that. Riding something like this will tell you if you are interested in large bikes or small bikes and whether or not you are really interested in offroad. I thought I wanted a DR650, turns out I just wanted a big dirt bike to ride single track. Edit: Also realized I did not want to deal with a kick start from dropping the bike or restarting after a break. I'm lazy and kickstarting on the side of a hill is nigh on impossible.

Trust me, you want a light bike if you think you are going to try any trail riding. AND you should learn trail riding on a light bike before riding a heavy bike. You learn so much about balance and riding on single track and much more quickly. It gives you much more confidence on the big bikes where small mistakes can mean a big dump.

MidlifeCrisis said:
Is it feasible to convert a non-road legal dirtbike so it can be plated?
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This is where I went after the KLX. I wanted more power, I first tried a KDX200, realized that 2 strokes aren't for me. Ended up with a 2007 WR450F. More power than I'll ever need and a much better dirt bike than the KLX (Not that the KLX was bad).

Very few things are required to convert an offroad bike to street title in Texas. It was very straight forward with the WR since they are street legal in other countries. I ordered some OEM style connectors and made my own plug and play DS harness. It took me about a month doing a little bit each weekend because I was too busy riding the bike in between.

www.txdps.state.tx.us said:
What's Inspected by Vehicle Type

Items of Inspection for a Motorcycle and Motor-Driven Cycle

05.07 Inspect Every Motorcycle and Motor-Driven Cycle For: (listed in suggested order of inspection)

* Check for evidence of Financial Responsibility

1. Horn
2. Mirror
3. Steering
4. Brakes (system)
5. Tires
6. Wheel Assembly
7. Exhaust System
8. Tail Lamp (1)
9. Stop Lamp (1)
10. License Plate Lamp
11. Rear Red Reflector (1)
12. Head Lamp (1)
13. Motor, Serial, or Vehicle Identification Number

Definitions:

Motorcycle: Every motor vehicle having a saddle for the use of the rider and designed to propel itself with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor.

Motor-Driven Cycle: Every motorcycle with a motor which has an engine piston displacement of not more than 125cc.
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NOTE that you must have a title to convert to street legal. If they don't have that, I would pass since the bond process is complicated and time consuming.
 
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Wow... that's a lot to take in. I think I understand what most of you are saying... stay simple, modest and light just getting started. Kinda like not starting with an S1000RR or Goldwing for the first road bike.

As for seat height, I'm used to tall road bikes, and I like to say I can handle a tall seat or a heavy bike... just not both on the same bike. Have had some that are darn close to 33" and I'm okay shifting butt at stops and doing the ballerina toe dance walking the bike. For a DS though, 35" is about the limit for me. I tried getting on taller bikes, and it's more than shifting butt and tip-toeing. I don't doubt I can learn to deal with that eventually, but from the get go, I'd rather take out that factor. I'll look around for some of the bikes suggested. I don't really want to over-analyze the whole bike choice thing. I'd rather get one and get dirty ASAP.

Being a fervent ATGATT rider, I've got closets full of road gear... lol. Don't need much convincing to get the right stuff. :mrgreen:

It has been a LONG time since I felt like a noob. This is refreshing. Feel like a kid again.


BTW, can somebody post an URL to "UlyBrad's MSR dirt course". I tried googling it and went through the MSF dirt school website search and couldn't find one locally near Houston.
 
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Personally, I'd get a trials bike, and ride it everywhere. A bike w/o a seat teaches a valuable skill on dirt...how to stand on the pegs to ride anywhere, everywhere w/ far better control than sitting down ever will.
 
The seat height on my Super Tenere and the KLX is very similar but the combination of a narrower seat, narrower frame, and softer rear suspension makes the KLX feel lower. I can dab easily, shift weight, steer, stop, pick it up, everything is easier on a bike half the weight of the big Yamaha. It's easy to keep your knees tight against the tank, the standing up position is natural, and the handle bars are in the right place for me. it's made to be a beginners dirt bike with street credentials. Riding with full camping gear to California and back is a different story. The little KLX is rung out at 82 and spinning at least 8,000. The Tenere shines as a touring bike that I can ride with confidence on gravel roads.
 
A BMW single would work also. KLX250 and the Honda 250 are nice rides also. The BMW being easier to touch flat footed on. The KLX is taller and at 5"7" no flat footing for me. The closer your to the surface your riding on the shorter the fall if that happens. The BMW GS650 single can be had reasonable used. If you are a shorter rider like me touching down both feet help create confidence and also makes it easier to keep the bike upright in the event of a mistake. What fits you is as important as anything else. Stay in your comfort zone. Buy used and buy on TWT if you can.

What is your budget? That might narrow down the search somewhat also.

How much time will you be riding in the dirt verses the street? If there is long distances between trails or if most of your travels will be paved the bigger ones are logically better. If you are just doing fire roads any DP bike could work. Heavier but more comfortable the majority of the time. KP
 
kickstand~prophet said:
A BMW single would work also. KLX250 and the Honda 250 are nice rides also. The BMW being easier to touch flat footed on. The KLX is taller and at 5"7" no flat footing for me. The closer your to the surface your riding on the shorter the fall When that happpens
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Good point!!!
 
MidlifeCrisis said:
BTW, can somebody post an URL to "UlyBrad's MSR dirt course". I tried googling it and went through the MSF dirt school website search and couldn't find one locally near Houston.
Click to expand...

The next Ulybrad-a-thon will be at Ghost Rancho on Friday, Nov. 20. I expect it will be posted up soon but you can PM Ulybrad on here and he'll fill you in.

The ranch is in Gatesville and will include a weekend of camping and fun. The camping is primitive but there's a new shelter/pavillion that was built a few weeks ago.

Full disclosure: I have not taken Brad's course (yet!) but he's given me a lot of information and advice. He will work really hard to give you the best possible start in your dirt life! :thumb:
 
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