Lost title

SGTGunner · Nov 27, 2015

Hello all,

I'm not exactly sure where to put this question, so since my intentions are twards the dual sport side I figured I'd plop it down right here.

I'm considering making a trade with a co-worker for a 2003 CRF450r. If I go through with it I'd like to eventually make it street legal for my 4 mile commute to work. I've done some research and reading on this forum and others and believe I have a good handle on the process, however he does not have a title for the bike. So here's my question(s).

Before I do anything will I need to apply for a lost title? How do I go about that and what would I need?

Since I will have no title to begin with would I be able to make the bike street legal, get the inspection and insurance THEN go get a title as a street bike, or will I need the off-road only title first?

Also, maybe this should be asked in a more CRF oriented form, but does anybody know if, or to what, the sprockets should be changed to in order to make the commute less stressful on the bike? Like I said it's only 4 miles away with half of it on a 65mph highway.

Thank you for any tips, tricks and info you can help with.

Cagiva 549 · Nov 27, 2015

A bike with no title is a parts bike , cannot do anything legal with it . the po needs to get the title , whoever had original paperwork on the bike is the only person that can do anything with it . And if the po is really beating around the bush about paperwork it probly stolen .

jqueen · Nov 27, 2015

Not quite.. Lots of people don't title off-road bikes. There are still some tax offices that don't know you can do it even.

It is easier for the original buyer to get the title. If not them, you may have to do a bonded title which can be a pain or very easy, do your research.

And there is a risk of the bike being stolen if there is no title..

jqueen · Nov 27, 2015

But in any case, get the off-road title before doing any conversion stuff. It will save you some tax money.

tshelfer · Nov 27, 2015

If he bought the bike with a title in the first place, it's still registered in his name. If so, he can easily get a duplicate title. All he has to do is walk into any TX DMV office, with a completed VTR-34 form and $5.45 in his pocket, and he'll walk out with a duplicate title in under 10 minutes. Or he can mail the form in and it'll take a little longer. If he ever had a title in the first place, there's no reason whatsoever for him not to get the duplicate. If he never held title, you have no way of knowing who the bike is registered to, meaning no telling what you'll run into if you go the bonded title route - which, by the way, will cost you at least $100 plus state/county fees. It's your call, but if I were you, I'd put the onus on him to do something about the title.

Johnny Blaze · Nov 27, 2015

I have purchased 2 bikes without titles, and then went through the process to title them and make them street legal.

The process was pretty painless for me, as I had the additional $115 to pay for applying for a bonded title and the bond itself...which is what you'll have to obtain if the title is lost or had never been apppied for by the seller. The title will remain bonded for 3 years, after which it converts to a regular title. But it acts like any title, where I am the legal owner and can transfer it in the sale of the bike to a new owner. The bond, underwritten by an insurance company, will reimburse the "true" owner for the bike (fair market value) if he can prove it was stolen. The State of Texas of course does their own investigation during the bonded title application process and informs the last known title-holder (if it was ever titled) of the sale.

You'll want a bill of sale, if only informally created, and the seller's identification...basic common sense. Treat it like any vehicle purchase or trade and make sure he signs the 130-U form from the DMV. Lack of a title doesn't mean your cash deserves any less respect.

It's all pretty easy really and, as best I can tell for the insurance companies, pretty darn profitable. I've gotten to read a number of posts on various bike forums by people who have a lot of imagination about what could happen if you buy a bike without a title, but my reality has been a lot less fantastic...almost sheer letdown. The clerks helped me fill the forms, the bonders approved me over the phone, and my titles came to me in less than 2 weeks. Gravy. I have the bikes, I ride the bikes, and NOBODY stops me for being legal.

But if all you're going to do is keep the bike in the dirt, then there's no reason to bother. Insult the seller with a lowball offer, accuse him of stealing it, and have some fun. This way it won't feel so offensive when it's your turn to sell it too lol

Of course if you know you're dealing with the original owner, then you have other options.

Johnny Blaze · Nov 27, 2015

Oh and JQ's post makes me remember that there's no time limit penalty for the original owner to apply for an offroad title, according to my county tax office.

garfey · Nov 27, 2015

Johnny L said:
I have purchased 2 bikes without titles, and then went through the process to title them and make them street legal.

The process was pretty painless for me, as I had the additional $115 to pay for applying for a bonded title and the bond itself...which is what you'll have to obtain if the title is lost or had never been apppied for by the seller. The title will remain bonded for 3 years, after which it converts to a regular title. But it acts like any title, where I am the legal owner and can transfer it in the sale of the bike to a new owner. The bond, underwritten by an insurance company, will reimburse the "true" owner for the bike (fair market value) if he can prove it was stolen. The State of Texas of course does their own investigation during the bonded title application process and informs the last known title-holder (if it was ever titled) of the sale.

You'll want a bill of sale, if only informally created, and the seller's identification...basic common sense. Treat it like any vehicle purchase or trade and make sure he signs the 130-U form from the DMV. Lack of a title doesn't mean your cash deserves any less respect.

It's all pretty easy really and, as best I can tell for the insurance companies, pretty darn profitable. I've gotten to read a number of posts on various bike forums by people who have a lot of imagination about what could happen if you buy a bike without a title, but my reality has been a lot less fantastic...almost sheer letdown. The clerks helped me fill the forms, the bonders approved me over the phone, and my titles came to me in less than 2 weeks. Gravy. I have the bikes, I ride the bikes, and NOBODY stops me for being legal.

But if all you're going to do is keep the bike in the dirt, then there's no reason to bother. Insult the seller with a lowball offer, accuse him of stealing it, and have some fun. This way it won't feel so offensive when it's your turn to sell it too lol

Of course if you know you're dealing with the original owner, then you have other options.

There are some real funnies in there; thanks for the chuckles, J_L! :lol2:

Meriden · Nov 28, 2015

I'm not sure when dealers in Texas started issuing titles on dirt bikes, but as I understand it most dirt bikes have come with a title in recent years. There are still plenty out there without titles though. Having titled a couple of bikes and a boat without the benefit of proper paperwork, it can be done without too much hassle as long as one approaches the clerk politely and with some patience. I bought the boat for next to nothing because the owner had made enemies of everyone at the TPWD by demanding they see things "his way." I registered it in under an hour, same location, same people, by doing it "their way."

Two thoughts, First, check the VIN and see if it is reported stolen. Second, negotiate a price that is reasonable considering the cost and effort needed to go through to get the bike properly titled. The cost of any bond and the time that it takes to get the thing cleared up comes out of the seller's pocket.

rpcraft · Nov 28, 2015

Dirt bikes have always had a certificate of ownership, even without a road title (at least since the early 80's). If you can not get one or the other then a bonded title can be attained and as long as it is not contested for a couple years you will eventually get a blue title page. For the time being a bonded (or Surety title) will allow you to operate and make it road legal, so long as you have done everything on the bike to ensure it is road legal, and have gotten it inspected from a legal inspection facility for motorcycles. As others have mentioned check the VIN with a law enforcement branch for any theft of the item, then proceed from there, and if the owner had a title, a replacement can be gotten for less than 10 bucks, so if they are not willing to do that, then I wouldn't even screw with the bike.

Johnny Blaze · Nov 28, 2015

garfey said:
There are some real funnies in there; thanks for the chuckles, J_L!

Yeah I was laughing when I wrote it.

A dirt bike is a toy, really. I don't really blame someone else for seeing it for what it is and treating it as nothing more than one. If I didn't want to plate all of mine then I probably wouldn't bother with titling them either. There's no seat time in that, and it adds to the cost of ownership.

I watched a documentary several months ago, 12 O'clock Boys, where inner-city gangs routinely stole one another's dirt bikes to go ride and stunt around on the street. None of those bikes were ever put up for sale, so I never got to see any title discussions happen.

SGTGunner · Nov 29, 2015

Thank you all for the information.

He is the second owner, bought it in 05. He was given the title but never registered it under his name coming from the "it's a toy for the dirt" school of thought. Since then he has lost it.

I'm still going to make the trade and just keep it for dirt only and continue searching for a real dual sport.

Thank you again.

garfey · Nov 30, 2015

SGTGunner said:
Thank you all for the information.

He is the second owner, bought it in 05. He was given the title but never registered it under his name coming from the "it's a toy for the dirt" school of thought. Since then he has lost it.

I'm still going to make the trade and just keep it for dirt only and continue searching for a real dual sport.

Thank you again.

So the easy way is to get the Original Owner, in whose name the bike is still titled and who is still the legal owner on the surface, to get a dupe title and sign it over to you, if he's still alive and willing to do it, which, if it were me, I'd do gladly. Or you could just go find him and beat the stuffing out of him until he does. Or ply him with beer and bratwurst. Or whatever. :lol2:

owtcast · Dec 1, 2015

Johnny L, I gotta ask. Did you amend your signature with the "2001 XR250R, plated (Could be yours!)" just for this thread or did you do that previously? :clap:

Johnny Blaze · Dec 1, 2015

owtcast said:
Johnny L, I gotta ask. Did you amend your signature with the "2001 XR250R, plated (Could be yours!)" just for this thread or did you do that previously?

I changed it when I first put up the XR250R for sale several months ago.

ed29 · Dec 1, 2015

Save yourself grief and stress... Have the current owner get the duplicate title in his name before you make the trade. If he does not have title i.e. if he bought the thing without title from another previous owner it gets sticky. Someone is the legal owner (title holder) of that motorcycle.

While it is true that lots of people buy/sell off road bikes without transferring title and it has grown to be accepted as ordinary it is not quite legal. The legal aspect matters when you want to plate the bike more than the acceptability of no paper trail.

I even once had a dealer try to pass me a MSO on a used CRF I was buying. I made them file for a title in my name since I was paying them the title fee anyway. I also have a nightmare story on an XR I bought. I'll save that for telling over a beer sometime.