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PlanoRider
12-23-2006, 08:30 PM
I am fresh from the MSF course and still getting comfortable with my skills using a Honda Rebel.

But soon (months...) I will be ready to move up to a bigger bike.

I had planned to get a Harley Fat Boy when I began but realized that that was much to much bike to learn on so I got the Rebel.

So my question is:

Is the jump to a Harley too much in one step? Should I get something smaller after the Rebel?

I like the Fat Boy and I like the Road King and the Softtail Deluxe. Does anyone know the differences from a riding experience perspective?

I realize there is a lot of personal preference here in these questions but my real question is for those that can remember starting out. Should it be a 3 stage process or 4 or 2? I have heard from one person that you learn more on smaller bikes but I don't know how many different sizes I want to go thru to get there. I do know I plan to rent several Harleys before I buy one.

Any insights are appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike

kurt
12-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Go get your Harley when you are ready. I'd go with a Dyna or lighter Softail. Road Kings are HEAVY.

Sleepy Weasel
12-23-2006, 09:02 PM
Hey, by the time you feel ready to move on to the next bike, you may have decided you're not even a "cruiser guy." A lot of people get into their first bike (or 2nd or 3rd) thinking they finally know what they'll really be happy with, only to outgrow it in a few months, or sooner if you're Kurt.
:mrgreen:

CycleCat
12-23-2006, 09:04 PM
After a few months you could certainly handle a Harley for the most part. But all new riders will fall a few times in the first years and first few bikes. I don't mean a big crash.... just a stupid low speed tip over while parking or something like that. Do you want to do that with a heavy, shiny Harley?

The Rebel is a fine first bike. I'd take an intermediate step and get a 750-800cc cruiser some sort of before getting that expensive, chrome covered H-D pride and joy all scratched up. Just my $.02.

loki
12-23-2006, 09:09 PM
You can take it with a grain of salt but, my only piece of advice is: Don't spend that kind of money until you're sure you like to ride. Doing any kind of cursory search in the local paper or on ebaymotors will reveal the huge number of people that spring for a new/costly bike when they first start to ride only to end up selling it a year later because they don't like to ride, can't ride, don't have time to ride, etc., etc. The amount of 1-2 year-old bikes on ebay with < 2k miles on them is mind boggling.

If you're really sure you want to ride...buy whatever gets you excited (assuming, of course, you're coordinated and have some level of mental and physical ability to exercise throttle control).

kurt
12-23-2006, 09:11 PM
A lot of people get into their first bike (or 2nd or 3rd) thinking they finally know what they'll really be happy with, only to outgrow it in a few months, or sooner if you're Kurt.
:mrgreen:

So do you have another bike yet, or are you just chukin' rocks at me. :-P

Sleepy Weasel
12-23-2006, 09:16 PM
So do you have another bike yet, or are you just chukin' rocks at me. :-P

Just passing the time... mainly thinking Wee Strom, though every now and then something else shiny catches my eye for a few minutes.

Tourmeister
12-23-2006, 09:20 PM
:tab From a mere technical point of view, discounting brand preference, the skills on a small bike and big bike are the same. However, the application is not the same. Being used to the weight difference and how it affects the bike will be the big factor. A longer wheel base will make it turn in slower and feel even heavier. If you feel you have mastered the skills on the smaller bike, then you could progress up through several stepping stone bikes, but I don't think it is necessary in all cases. However, if you do go straight to the Harley you want, I would highly recommend taking it somewhere and practicing with it at low speeds. Then start getting a feel for its acceleration and braking. It won't be fun to have a cool bike only to drop it or tear it up because of a newbie mistake ;-)

:tab If you can do it, I recommend a trip to either the Hill Country for a ride on the 33X's or to Arkansas so you can experience some technical twisties. I'd hate to see someone think they are real experienced because they have a lot of miles riding on typical Texas roads only to hit some real roads and toss their expensive bike off the road. Both of those locations often lead to a demonstration of the shortcomings of peoples' riding skills.

sherob
12-23-2006, 09:21 PM
+1 on what loki says. Another thing you have to consider is maintenance. If you are not going to keep up with it, how much is this going to cost you at the Stealer :doh: Consider what kind of riding you will be doing too... ;-)

mochoajr
12-23-2006, 09:28 PM
I am fresh from the MSF course and still getting comfortable with my skills using a Honda Rebel.

But soon (months...) I will be ready to move up to a bigger bike.

I had planned to get a Harley Fat Boy when I began but realized that that was much to much bike to learn on so I got the Rebel.

So my question is:

Is the jump to a Harley too much in one step? Should I get something smaller after the Rebel?

I like the Fat Boy and I like the Road King and the Softtail Deluxe. Does anyone know the differences from a riding experience perspective?

I realize there is a lot of personal preference here in these questions but my real question is for those that can remember starting out. Should it be a 3 stage process or 4 or 2? I have heard from one person that you learn more on smaller bikes but I don't know how many different sizes I want to go thru to get there. I do know I plan to rent several Harleys before I buy one.

Any insights are appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike

Where did you take the course? How much was it?

Thanks, Marco.

Sleepy Weasel
12-23-2006, 09:39 PM
Where did you take the course? How much was it?

Thanks, Marco.


Trev (msfdude (http://www.twtex.com/forums/member.php?find=lastposter&t=13930)) is an instructor around here, but I always manage to forget the name of the school. I took an experienced/advanced class with him once, and had a great time. Drop him a note, he might even be able to get you a deal.


My BRC I took with Motorcycle Safety Instruction (http://weridesafe.com) http://weridesafe.com and they had good instructors, too.

PlanoRider
12-23-2006, 09:58 PM
Where did you take the course? How much was it?

Thanks, Marco.


http://www.motorcycleridercourse.com/

It was $190 if I remember correctly. It is important to read all the requirements. They require shoes that go over your ankles and there was a girl in our class that went thru the classroom part and then only had tennis shoes and she was not allowed to finish the course. I don't know if they gave her her money back or let her take another class but they do not have to since they state it clearly in the information that you must have the equiptment they require or they will not let you take the class.

PlanoRider
12-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Go get your Harley when you are ready. I'd go with a Dyna or lighter Softail. Road Kings are HEAVY.


You know that is where I really have no experience and am curious. I mean Air craft carriers are heavy and so are bass boats. Do you really feel the difference between a 1300cc Honda and a Harley or a Fat Boy and a Road King? At what point does more weight not really matter any more?

I mean I hear people talk about a Harley being slow but most motorcycles are so much faster than any car what is really slow? I mean I don't want a crotch rocket so how do you decide? I have not seen 0-60mph numbers on Harleys but I assume they are very fast like most motorcycles. I guess the question is the relativitiy of the situation. How big is the difference in weight and how much does it matter?

The funny thing is I remember the hardest thing about the MSF course was the really slow stuff and I see people riding Harleys very slow with no effort at all. In fact when I sit on the heavy bikes they seem to be more stable like they could not fall as fast as my Rebel because that much weight does not do anything fast.....

sherob
12-23-2006, 10:18 PM
Your cruisers tend to be heavy at a lower center of gravity. You will still have to negotiate slow speed stuff... that's when you will get bit and you will dump your bike if not careful. Also a heavier bike will respond slower in a panic situation.

I moved from a ST1300 (~700lbs) to a GoldWing (~800lbs). The weight was higher on the ST than the GW and I can move the GW a little better in the slow stuff. It's still a beast for parking lots and slow turns... but I just practice and take my time ;-)

Sleepy Weasel
12-23-2006, 10:23 PM
As for any bike being "slow" it all seems to be a matter of perspective. I've heard people claim a 750cc cruiser isn't enough for the freeway, but I had no trouble on my 650 V-Star (even had it up to 100 once, in an emergency). I never had a problem being able to keep up with the cars. On the other hand, it couldn't keep up with wabbit's Triumph T-Bird if he got on the gas.

If somebody tells you a Harley is slow, they're comparing it to another bike.

kurt
12-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Really, the main difference between the Road King and a Dyna is 200 lbs. Both do reasonably well at any speed, it's just that when it comes time to put you feet down and move that bad boy, the extra weight, the wideness of the floor boards and the taller seat will make their presence known. They are just very unwieldy to push around at a stop. Dynas have better brakes hands down as well.

sherob
12-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Oh... and your performance numbers...
time / speed
07 Dyna Screaming Eagle 12.31/107.08 qtr mile
00 Road Glide 13.93/93.1 qtr mile

HD's are not performance bikes... ;-)

Loyd
12-23-2006, 10:31 PM
A) buy used.
B)buy japanese. Better quality, lower price...of course the costuming isn't as cool.(j/k) ;-) ...most are assembled here nowadays anyhow.


From a rebel anythings going to feel large. Go sit on a few models from various manufacturers. Your looking for all day comfort over posability.

Oh, and welcome to group!:rider:

PlanoRider
12-23-2006, 10:38 PM
A) buy used.
B)buy japanese. Better quality, lower price...of course the costuming isn't as cool.(j/k) ;-) ...most are assembled here nowadays anyhow.


From a rebel anythings going to feel large. Go sit on a few models from various manufacturers. Your looking for all day comfort over posability.

Oh, and welcome to group!:rider:

To tell you the truth, the big Hondas (not Goldwing, but crusiers) felt heavier than the Harleys just sitting on them, which surprised me.......

Mike

Tracker
12-23-2006, 10:39 PM
Big question. What type of riding? Commuting + weekend. Just lazy weekend rides. Hunting for the twisties?

I got back into riding on a Honda Shadow VLX. Nice small cruiser. Got to where I could scrap the pegs all the time. Great for commuting, easy on gas, easy on insurance. Never dropped it, but got it used at a very reasonable price. Never was too afraid to drop it. I thought I would ride it for 2-3 years. 9 months later...

Triumph Speed Triple. More sport; less cruise.

There's things I like about both.

PlanoRider
12-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Big question. What type of riding? Commuting + weekend. Just lazy weekend rides. Hunting for the twisties?

I got back into riding on a Honda Shadow VLX. Nice small cruiser. Got to where I could scrap the pegs all the time. Great for commuting, easy on gas, easy on insurance. Never dropped it, but got it used at a very reasonable price. Never was too afraid to drop it. I thought I would ride it for 2-3 years. 9 months later...

Triumph Speed Triple. More sport; less cruise.

There's things I like about both.

Mostly lazy weeked rides at least to start. I might use for commuting on really pretty days....

scar04
12-23-2006, 11:20 PM
The biggest thing you need to concern yourself with is what do YOU like, not what someone else says you like. I have an 03 Dyna Super Glide with a stage 1 top end and screamin eagle pipes. I love that bike. I've ridden a couple of other bikes like my dads wide glide and vrod. Both are great bikes, but they are not that comfortable for me. The rebel is a superb bike to start out on. I rode mine for two years and enjoyed it. Renting the Harleys to see what you like is a great idea. Harley dealerships do a free test ride when the factory introduces the new years models and thats a good way to try em out. I find the road kings and fat boys a little large for my TASTE. But that is the key, its my preference. Ive ridden a few crotchrockets and had fun, but its not a bike I could ride everday. Thats not saying that theyre bad bikes, or that the folks who ride them are crazy (at least not ALL of them) and not all Harley riders (once again, not all of them) own motorcycle trailers nicer than my first apartment and are incapable or riding worth a flip. Go find what you like and make it your own. Like some people said, you can trick out a Harley all you want, which makes it fun. If youre looking for the big bikes a dyna is good base line. If youre of a smaller stature, a sportster may not be a bad idea or a dyna low rider is a good look. I have seen that the dyna is a great mix between in town and highway driving. It is a good maneuverable bike (sp?) and can be set up to be great on long hauls. If you're gonna do a lot of cruising and long distance stuff as your primary form of riding, Id go with the softail. Besides a 96 ci engine and a six speed tranny cant be that boring or slow right? * places glasses in coat pocket and steps off soap box* :zen: BTW stick with the rebel for about six months and seehow you feel :flip:

Tx White Knight
12-23-2006, 11:31 PM
I will have to say like some others, first figure out what type of ridding you want to do. I have been ridding for 18 months after 23 years of no ridding and have found out I would like to do longer touring type of ridding. I have put a lot into my V Star 1100 to make it more compatible with touring but if I had waited I would have gone with a FJR.

We all live and learn, just hang out on some of the forums of different types of ridding (cruise, tour, dual sport, and so on) and visit with them and attend some of their events to see if it is your cup of tea. But above all RIDE :rider:

z_clark
12-24-2006, 12:01 AM
Definately take your time and sit on lots of bikes before deciding!

I had a Rebel and loved the heck out of it. After 3K miles I moved up to a 750 cc standard, and found it to be the right move for me. Who knows...another year I may change again! Motorcycles are easy to sell...and plenty of used ones ready to buy :doh: .

Welcome to this site! I am new here and like it!

bushwhacker
12-24-2006, 01:09 AM
Were I you I would go from the Rebel to a mid-range bike like an 800-1100 cc before jumping to the big boys.

There is no doubt you can ride a big Harley but I think you will be more comfortable if you take an intermediate step (I know I was).

I would also recommend you try a different type of bike between the Rebel and the Harley. You may find that you are definately a cruiser man but a $20,000 Harley is a pretty expensive mistake if you decide you are not.

I would look at a used Honda 919 or 599, a Suzuki SV650, a Ducati Monster 750/800 or some other midsize standard type bike between the Rebel and the Harley.

I also think that you will find that Standard type bikes handle a little better and are easier to master basic skills on than a cruiser.

I did not start riding until about 8 years ago and I was enamored with cruisers.

I started out on an 84 V45 Honda Magna (700 cc) which was stolen. Had an 86 Rebel 450 for a while and moved to an Intruder 800 for about 6 months but it just was not big enough for me to feel comfortable on.

Bought an 1100 cc Yamaha Virago and rode it for about 15 months/15,000 miles and decided it was time to move up.

The Yamaha was a quick bike but I wanted a larger bike better suited to touring but it had to be something with a little zip.

Decided on a 99 Valkyrie Tourer, 700 lbs dry plus another 50-60 wet.

It was a good handling bike and I put about 25000 miles on it over the next couple of years.

My next bike was a Valkyrie Interstate. Basically the same bike but with fairing and trunk (60 lbs heavier).

Rode it for about 8 months and decided I wanted something different.

Went with the Triumph Tiger and have no regrets. Also have a Thunderbird Sport and had a Ducati Multistrada.

I have found that taller bikes with a standard upright seating position, long travel suspension and more agressive steering geometry are more comfortable for distance riding, better handling, better in traffic and much easier on the body than a cruiser.

Don't get me wrong I still like cruisers (I still have the Thunderbird Sport) and wouldn't mind having a Harley (I like the Heritage Softail Springer), but it would not be my primary bike and would be generally for scooting around town on Saturday night and going to local cruiser rallys.

I am currently in the market for a new bike and the Multistrada 1100 and Tiger 1050 are on my short list with the Tiger leading due to availability of ABS.

=

jhansen
12-24-2006, 07:34 AM
I've seen lots of good advice thru out this thread and the best :clap: I've seen has been ride the Rebel for six months first to figure out whether or not you really like the addiction (Betty Ford reject myself). Then start with steps up to a heavy bike. I bought my Heritage used (15K) and have not regretted yet. The 1k Vstrom was choice number two. There are lots of other cruisers out there if that is what you want. Also, have you thought about a 883 HD sporty? that is a step up and it is a Harley with a large catalog of farkles. You can always find those at dealerships as people start with those and then move to the FX/FL series. Any way you go with will not be a bad decision, you just have to pick your toy.

ColGoodnight
12-24-2006, 08:12 AM
A interesting thing about Harleys is that different models have factory ergos deisgned for different height riders. IIRC, the Fat Boy is set up for average to above height riders and the Softtail Deluxe is set up for average to below height riders.

Another interesting thing about Harleys is that with the help of HDI's 14,000 page accessory catalog, a purchaser can reconfigure the factory ergos on any of the bikes with different saddles, bars and/or repositioned controls.

HTH,
Tom

Hemibee
12-24-2006, 08:21 AM
My thoughts are, ride the Rebel until YOU are ready to move up. That may be another week or month or year, it's all up to you.

For ME, I would not waste my money on a mid-sized rice burner 'cause to me it would be a waste. Some of the others don't agree with that but that's them.

As far as performance goes who cares if the crotch rocket can go from 0 to lightspeed in 2.2 seconds if that is not what you want. They will ALL go fast enough to get you in trouble.

If I bought another street bike it would be a Harley, I might look at a Euro bike but that would be all I would even think about. The big "Glides" are nice but I like the old Wide Glides, personal preference. I DON'T like the rubber mounted engines, a bike is supposed to vibrate, too bad they are a thing of the past.

As far as maintenance goes, my thoughts are if you are going to ride it YOU should maintain it not the high school drop-out or the college grad at the dealership. They ain't going to do you no good out in the middle of Bum Steer Montana or on the side of the freeway during rush hour in Houston.

I know my comments may get me flamed but they are MY thoughts. I will agree with you on renting a few to find out what you want. If it's a rice burner, get it. Remember it's your bike, not mine, Fred's, Ted's, Janet's or Suzie's. Ride what you want.

Ok, I've got my asbestos drawers on, flame away. :mrgreen:

The Bruce
12-24-2006, 09:18 AM
Whatever you decide on, make sure you take the time to learn the total feel of the bike. They all handle different based on the geometry, weight, control setup, suspension, tires, etc. Go through the same excercises you did in your MSF course to learn your Rebel before you head out for any serious riding. Many riders have headed for twisties on a brand new bike and ended up in the ditch or worse because they hadn't taken the time to get the feel of the new machine. Ride what you like.

OldGringo
12-24-2006, 10:20 AM
Rider,
Stop by your Victory shop and look at the Kingpin and the Veagas before you pull the trigger on the other brand.

Tx White Knight
12-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Here is another option from a local dealer, it is a 5 step up plan

http://www.fullboar.com/Trade_Back_for_FREE.asp

They are located in Hurst (mid cities)

Eulogite
12-24-2006, 10:58 AM
It may be that cruising and parades are what you want to do, but the call of the twisties is strong once you ride some good ones. Remember that with your feet out in front of you, you won't be able to weight the pegs or shift your weight significantly into a curve, both of which will increase traction and give you a safety edge if (when) you ever bite off more than you can chew.

DFW_Warrior
12-24-2006, 11:05 AM
Here is another option from a local dealer, it is a 5 step up plan

http://www.fullboar.com/Trade_Back_for_FREE.asp

They are located in Hurst (mid cities)

You beat me to it by 20 minutes!!!! That's exactly what I was going to post.:clap:

Hey, I got an idea!!! I've got a used Warrior for sale that would make a great step up bike from the Rebel!!! And you could buy two of them for the cost of one Sportster 1200. But after you ride the Warrior, trust me, you'll feel that Harley's are sloooooowwww.;-)

PlanoRider
12-24-2006, 12:16 PM
Wow! Some really good advice! Thanks everyone!

I plan to stay with the Rebel for quite sometime but the addiction of motorcycles has me looking at bikes a lot when I am not on the Rebel. So I am always thinking of the next step even when it is not going to be soon.

Sounds like MOST think I should have an intermediate step before the Big Twin.... interesting. I would have expected that any 500 to 800cc bike is going to be just as "bad" with respect to being heavy as the Big Twin..... I have no frame of reference but I suspect one thing on a bigger bike will be better than the Rebel and that is power. I have to assume that a more powerful bike will be more stable at low speeds where there is not so much load on the underpowered bike by my size??? (6'2", 260lbs) Should be easier to find and hold a throttle position that results in a steady speed??

Also I had not expected the idea that I might try something other than a crusier as a middle step. As I understand crusiers are somewhat harder to ride than say a standard or a dual sport or a sport for that matter. That is why I started with a crusier so that I would learn to be able to handle that bike. If I ride something easier then I may have to go back to learning mode on the big twin if and when I get one...... But I do agree that as a novice there is still a pretty good chance I will have some minor newbie mistakes and I am still not sure I want to subject a big expensive shinny Harley to those.....

Thanks for all the advice!!!!
Mike

prhaussies
12-24-2006, 01:33 PM
:rider: I tend to agree w/Eulogite regarding body position. It is more comfortable to me being in a more upright, feet centered stance. If you watch body position in athletes such as downhill skiers, gymnasts & mx's; their torso is parallel to the lower leg. Balance is security. Happy motoring. rh

Texas T
12-24-2006, 01:51 PM
I plan to stay with the Rebel for quite sometime but the addiction of motorcycles has me looking at bikes a lot when I am not on the Rebel. So I am always thinking of the next step even when it is not going to be soon.
Well, you could be like Squeaky and bum a ride off of everyone she encounters until she's ridden everything out there. :trust:

Sounds like MOST think I should have an intermediate step before the Big Twin.... interesting.
Those comments come from knowing too many people that started with a big bike or started with a smaller bike and then quickly jumped to a big bike and wound up getting themselves in over their head. Only you can determine when the time is right for you to move up. Others on here have started on big bikes and not had any problems at all.


I have to assume that a more powerful bike will be more stable at low speeds where there is not so much load on the underpowered bike by my size??? (6'2", 260lbs) Should be easier to find and hold a throttle position that results in a steady speed??
No, I don't agree with that. Any bike will be able to hold a steady speed regardless of the load. A smaller, lighter bike such as the Rebel is much easier to maneuver at slow speeds (parking lot turns for example) than a large, heavy bike. This is where most people tend to drop their new shiny bikes because they don't understand which brake to use and how much throttle, etc.

Here's the recommendation I give to every new rider... order and watch the DVD from Motorman...
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/

Also I had not expected the idea that I might try something other than a crusier as a middle step. As I understand crusiers are somewhat harder to ride than say a standard or a dual sport or a sport for that matter.
Harder in what respect? Going quickly through the corners? Perhaps. But that's primarily from a clearance standpoint and scraping things on the bike.

As others have mentioned, you need to understand what YOU want to do with the bike. If you want a slow trip through the valley, travelling from rest stop to rest stop, a cruiser is fine for that. Long Distance riding in your blood? Then consider a touring bike. Long Distance and sporty riding your interest? A Sport Tourer is what you want. HD can provide you with two of the above if you're positive that's what you want. Once you start attending some of the "meet and greet", "meet and eat", "chat and chow" gatherings, talking with everyone about what they ride and why, you'll be able to develop a little better concept of where you see yourself in the future.

If I could afford them, an Ultra Classic and a Super Glide would be in my garage.

Gilk51
12-24-2006, 02:08 PM
Ok, I've got my asbestos drawers on, flame away. :mrgreen:
Well, you are all WRONG! :eek2:
Uh, what did you say? :-P

My advice is to see if you can score some demo rides on bikes that you are considering. I know that you can do that with Harleys and maybe a few used ones at other shops.

Once you get comfortable on the Rebel, there are folks on TWT here that will let you take theirs for a spin. I've done that a couple of times myself.

dfwscotty
12-24-2006, 03:07 PM
Geez I love this site! Very good information for him.

As you narrow your choices down, find the message boards and forums that are based on that bike or style of bike. What I like to see in owner/rider opinions is the thought, "This is why I chose this bike" and not, "this is why you should buy this bike". When I tell you I chose this bike was, A, B, C and D where I chose it for those reasons, you may deny it. Also those message boards will tell you the drawbacks to that bike. Yeah, love the bike but expect to replace the ovulator valve in less than 1000 miles.

There are hundreds of sites on the web almost as good as this one. Do a little legwork on the computer plus on the road. Like a Harley? Go to the nearest dealer to you and talk with the salesman. Then hit the road and go to the other Harley dealers to see if they have the same opinion. I was looking at a bike at a dealer recently. The salesman was the nicest guy but he didn't know anything about the bike. That is why I like to go to the manufacturer website and study the specs and compare with the salesman as we talk.

Ya got (just guessing) 20-30 dealers in the DFW area. Shouldnt take you more than a couple of days to check the bikes you like. You never know, you may be set on one thing and walk out with another.

Ever thought about renting for a weekend? May be a good idea but limited on choices.

swallack
12-24-2006, 03:42 PM
I am fresh from the MSF course and still getting comfortable with my skills using a Honda Rebel.

But soon (months...) I will be ready to move up to a bigger bike.

I had planned to get a Harley Fat Boy when I began but realized that that was much to much bike to learn on so I got the Rebel.

So my question is:

Is the jump to a Harley too much in one step? Should I get something smaller after the Rebel?

I like the Fat Boy and I like the Road King and the Softtail Deluxe. Does anyone know the differences from a riding experience perspective?

I'm sure the Harley riders are in the minority here & depending on what type of riding you intend to do, a Harley may not be appropriate for you. That aside, IF you do get a Harley, I'd advise getting a larger one to start with (assuming the budget is there). The Sporty's are a smaller bike, but the bigger bikes have a lower center of gravity & in general handle better.

With regard to the models you asked about, the FatBoy comes without a windshield & has solid wheels. The solid wheels can be nice compared to having to worry about spokes, but I'd told they can act a bit like a sail if riding with a cross wind. The Softail Deluxe is intended to be a 1 person bike, so if you plan to do 2-up riding, it probably isn't the right one for you (you can change the seat, but then you have removed one of the retro aspects of the bike). The Road King has a touring frame though once I put a touring seat on my Heritage, I have no issues about extended rides. The RK would come with hard saddle bags (probably locking) & though I know the FB doesn't, I'm not sure about the Deluxe.

Some people start with a Low Rider, but it has a narrow front tire which I don't care for.

Jack Giesecke
12-24-2006, 03:56 PM
Well, I've been riding 40 years now and never felt "ready" for a Harley. :rofl: I can tell ya, you'll rarely be satisfied with what you've got. You'll want something else. It's just a way of life, and perhaps because there are so many ways to go motorcycling, dirt to street to track. But, it's fun wanting something else. Wouldn't have it any other way. :mrgreen:

Tourmeister
12-24-2006, 04:07 PM
Sounds like MOST think I should have an intermediate step before the Big Twin.... interesting. I would have expected that any 500 to 800cc bike is going to be just as "bad" with respect to being heavy as the Big Twin..... I have no frame of reference but I suspect one thing on a bigger bike will be better than the Rebel and that is power. I have to assume that a more powerful bike will be more stable at low speeds where there is not so much load on the underpowered bike by my size??? (6'2", 260lbs) Should be easier to find and hold a throttle position that results in a steady speed??

:tab It is not the power that makes you smooth at low speeds. It is learning to properly use the clutch! This is something that most new riders struggle with. They want to let the clutch out all the way and then control speed with the throttle only. Try this on a bike with more power and you will find yourself in a world of trouble real fast! ;-) You want to keep the engine above stall speed and slip the clutch at low speeds. For bikes where the crankshaft is perpendicular to the frame axis (typical V, Inline 4, Triple, V4, etc...) the gyroscopic effect of the faster spinning crank will actually help stabilize the bike at low speeds and keep it from tipping suddenly.

:tab Another common newbie mistake is to use the front brake at slow speeds. Avoid this if possible. With the front wheel turned and the bike slightly leaned, the front braking forces will put the bike on the ground before you realize what has happened! I have seen this a LOT, and the stunned look on the rider's face is priceless. You are better to keep the engine revving a little faster as mentioned above and then to use the back brake, letting the engine pull against the braking force slightly. Once you get good at this, slow speed maneuvers will be much easier! As for those people making it look like handling the big bikes at slow speed... remember, Michael Jordan makes slamming three point shots look real easy, hehe. Skill matters!

:tab The extra weight is seldom an issue once the bike is moving at about a jogging pace (someone that actually jogs and not me...). However, the first time you pull forward into a parking lot without realizing there is a slight downslope until you go to back out, then you will understand how the extra weight can be a pain. The issue with the weight is simply one of learning what it means and how to handle it. As for a big bike not tipping as easily because of its big inertia, it does not work that way. Once it is at the tipping point, the only thing holding it up is you, even if it is not moving at all. At that point, the weight matters a lot! Part of the experience is actually letting your senses get more finely attuned to the feel of the weight so that you know sooner when it is moving away from the balance point. I have seen MANY big bikes dumped in parking lots as compared to lighter bikes, even by experienced riders.

:tab Now once you are moving, the weight will make the bike more resistant to direction changes. Part of this is the effect of the longer wheelbase and more relaxed (raked out) front forks. The other part is the inertia you mentioned. There is also the inertia of the big spinning gyro front tire as compared to a smaller tire on most non-cruisers. All those things add up to more effort at the bars to get the bike to change directions. This is why cruisers typically have wide bars, better leverage. Standards and sport bikes have less rake on the front forks (forks closer to vertical axis), shorter wheelbases, lighter wheels, less overall weight, etc,... which all makes the bikes turn much faster with less effort. A rider shifting his weight on a big heavy long bike does not have as much effect as it does on a shorter lighter bike. These thing matter when you are trying to ride a bike at even a moderately aggressive pace on curvy roads. This is why your riding style will be so important to your selection.

DFW_Warrior
12-24-2006, 04:07 PM
PlanoRider, I've got a question for you. Do you have a strong lower back? I happen to have a weak lower back and having my feet forward of me starts to put pressure at the base of my spine. That is one of the reasons that I am selling my Warrior so I can get something that puts my feet underneath me.

That being said, there are tons of riders that do all sorts of long distance riding with their feet out in front of them and they are just fine.

If I were in your shoes, I would skip the middle step in the biking progression. Stick with the Rebel until you've been cutoff by more cars than you can count, dropped it because you forgot to put the sidestand down, soiled your pants because you locked up the rear wheel and got sideways, found out that cold tires and cold pavement really isn't that good, ridden in the rain at least twice (more than 20 miles), ridden down a couple miles of your favorite gravel roads, ride though rush hour traffic 20-30 times, and that should about cover it.:trust:

Serious though, Harley's aren't really that big of bike anymore. I wouldn't go with a full dressed bagger, but other than that, you'll be just fine.... Maybe. As long as you spend some quality time on the Rebel, and then take the Harley to a big parking lot and practice all will be good.

And who said Harley's can't handle???? I'd like to see an R1 do this at 1mph!!!;-)
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6940/popopj5.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=popopj5.jpg)

Tourmeister
12-24-2006, 04:24 PM
:tab Who has a link to that vid of the Japanese guys doing that incredible maneuvering course?

:tab One other comment about center of gravity (CoG). The location of the center of gravity is NOT a function of the weight of the bike. A bigger bike will not necessarily have a lower CoG. It is solely a function of where the mass is located. To a degree, a higher center of mass can make lighter bikes feel heavier than truly heavier bikes with a lower CoG.

Flattop
12-24-2006, 05:54 PM
All good advice! Particularly the parts about deciding what you want and going for that.

I bought a Harley Road King after being away from riding for years. I too took the MSF beginners course, and I benefitted greatly from it.

If you decide a Harley is what you really want (at least for now) send me an email, and I'll point you to some information that will help greatly with handling a Harley Bagger.

Bryan

howdydo
12-24-2006, 06:26 PM
PlanoRider, I've got a question for you. Do you have a strong lower back? I happen to have a weak lower back and having my feet forward of me starts to put pressure at the base of my spine. That is one of the reasons that I am selling my Warrior so I can get something that puts my feet underneath me.


I ride a Sporty with forward controls, but the controls can be anywhere they are comfortable for YOU!

I am thinking of upgrading to a bigger bike, once I get over my "newbie" nerves... but my 883 is my first bike, so I guess I jumped in with both feet ;-)

Just keep riding!

Texas T
12-24-2006, 06:37 PM
:tab Who has a link to that vid of the Japanese guys doing that incredible maneuvering course? I have a copy of it. 8mb if you want it. I also have the Japanese cop video that's about 21mb.

PlanoRider
12-24-2006, 11:03 PM
My continued thanks for the great advice!!!

One point I want to make clear is that I realize that asking what bike I should get is like asking who has the best children..... But I do want to hear the advice about.... "I chose this bike because....." that is very helpful but I realize that someone telling me I should buy a "Honda vtx"..... is just one opinion among many.

This site is really great! The advice is amazing! I need all the help I can get!

I think for many reasons I will probably be staying with a crusier or a bagger rather than a sport or a dual sport. That is where my interest started and that is where I will probably start but I don't know where I will go from there. I have two young boys and it would be a blast to go dirt biking with them....

So I am still trying to decide about whether I need to have a step between the Rebel or go straight to the really big bike. I think the Harley rental will answer that question for me.....

Thanks!!!
Mike

Gilk51
12-24-2006, 11:20 PM
:tab Who has a link to that vid of the Japanese guys doing that incredible maneuvering course?
I have a download called gym.wmv.

Here is a site with several videos - look at motorcycle.gym here (http://www.fossan.com/lyd_og_bilde/).

Texas T
12-24-2006, 11:25 PM
But I do want to hear the advice about.... "I chose this bike because....." I hadn't ridden in 25+ years and I had the middle-aged stereotypical HD "want". Couldn't afford one. Felt that longer rides with the wife would be nice so started looking at Gold Wings. Couldn't afford one. Kept researching and came across the Kawasaki Concours... Sport Tourer; good in the twisties, 20 year production run, superb support through the owner's group (COG), fast & quick, decent mpg (41), and comfortable two-up for a reasonable amount of miles. Began researching bikes/prices and when a bargain appeared I jumped on it. No regrets.

www.concours.org for a look at a bunch of motorcycle fanatics. ;-)

Radlouie
12-25-2006, 03:16 AM
Dude,

Check out Full Boar Cycles in Hurst. My wife wants to start riding her own bike and I want her to start out easy, they have a cool buy up program that fits what you're looking for. You can buy a 750, ride it for a while, trade up to the next level and receive a full refund for your last purchase towards your next and so on until you are ready for the bike youe really want (Road King?)

We plan on using the program for her and possibly my daughter, but I think she's got her eyes on my Ninja!

RadLouie

loki
12-25-2006, 01:40 PM
And who said Harley's can't handle???? I'd like to see an R1 do this at 1mph!!!;-)
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6940/popopj5.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=popopj5.jpg)

Is riding cones in a parking lot at a walking pace fun? :giveup:

Sleepy Weasel
12-25-2006, 02:08 PM
Is riding cones in a parking lot at a walking pace fun? :giveup:

Have you tried it? Keep in mind, there were a bunch of "professional riders" there, so part of the fun is the competitive aspect.

bushwhacker
12-25-2006, 02:35 PM
And who said Harley's can't handle???? I'd like to see an R1 do this at 1mph!!!;-)
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6940/popopj5.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=popopj5.jpg)


I think it would be pretty easy on the Thunderbird Sport.

-

CycleCat
12-25-2006, 02:50 PM
Is riding cones in a parking lot at a walking pace fun? :giveup:

When you can wow a crowd of 100s of people with your bike handling prowess and earn the respect of your riding peers... I would think YES! :mrgreen:

Any squid with enough money to buy a hyper-performance sport bike can go 100 MPH in a straight line. Real skill is shown in the curves... all the more so when low speed is involved. :hail:

Sleepy Weasel
12-25-2006, 02:59 PM
Any squid with enough money to buy a hyper-performance sport bike can go 100 MPH in a straight line.

Not that it takes a hyper-performance sport bike to go 100.
:mrgreen:

CycleCat
12-25-2006, 03:09 PM
Not that it takes a hyper-performance sport bike to go 100.
:mrgreen:

True enough!:lol2: But the squid on the hyper performance sport bike wouldn't want to hear about it when you try and tell him that! :doh:

JacknTexas
12-25-2006, 05:37 PM
[QUOTE=Tourmeister]:tab Who has a link to that vid of the Japanese guys doing that incredible maneuvering course?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6178043709180164205

pinecone
12-25-2006, 06:56 PM
:tab If you can do it, I recommend a trip to either the Hill Country for a ride on the 33X's or to Arkansas so you can experience some technical twisties. I'd hate to see someone think they are real experienced because they have a lot of miles riding on typical Texas roads only to hit some real roads and toss their expensive bike off the road. Both of those locations often lead to a demonstration of the shortcomings of peoples' riding skills.

A number of NM roads are like that as well. Especially when they turn into dirt for no reason at all.:lol2:

pinecone
12-25-2006, 07:00 PM
When you can wow a crowd of 100s of people with your bike handling prowess and earn the respect of your riding peers... I would think YES! :mrgreen:

Motor officers have to do that stuff all the time. Not many PD bikes have chicken strips.

I wish I could do that. Especially since most of them PD bikes weigh over 600lbs.

DFW_Warrior
12-25-2006, 10:04 PM
Is riding cones in a parking lot at a walking pace fun? :giveup:

Yep, it sure is actually. If you've never seen a rider muscle an 800lb Harley into a 360 inside something the size of 1 parking space, then you'll never understand. These guys are amazing at what they do.:trust:

ben1364
12-27-2006, 07:24 AM
[QUOTE=PlanoRider] wrote in part, "I like the Fat Boy and I like the Road King and the Softtail Deluxe. Does anyone know the differences from a riding experience perspective? <snip>

Any insights are appreciated!

/QUOTE]

I suggest that you answer one question first. How do you intend to use the motorcycle; which is to say, how many miles per year and on what type roads, etc. If you are going to ride only 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year, buy the one that looks the most attractive to you. Most Harley Davidsons are fairly low and easy to handle so the model shouldn't make much difference.

hetkind
12-27-2006, 08:37 AM
I would suggest moving up to a STANDARD, and here a few of my favorites...

Suzuki SV650, new about 6k,
Suzuki Bandit, varying sizes
Kaw Ninja 500
BMW R1100R, used, under 6k
ANY naked BMW airhead, varying prices

We have a garage full of bikes with the newest being BMW Naked Sport bikes...and naked sport bikes in the "streetfighter" style might be ideal for you...

and if you want to buy new, the new hexhead R1200R is a VERY nice standard and will run 40k miles a year with minimal work, aside from tires.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=r1200r

I moved up from a Yamaha XS650 to a HD sportster 23 years ago, went to BMW in 2/87 and have been riding bmw ever since.

Howard

Chirpy
12-27-2006, 09:20 AM
Okay, here's my 2Ę.

If you want a Harley, don't overlook the new Sportys. After the frame redesign of the 2004 models, they've lost their paintshaker reputation. They are the lighest thing in the Harley lineup (but at over 500lbs it's still the heaviest thing I've ever owned even though Big Twin guys will sneer at it's lack of "road-hugging wieght") and have the easiest potential of air-cooled HP if you want some. You can easily get a Sporty 1200 up to 80-90 rear wheel HP. That can be quite expensive out of a BT, and you still have the excess weight to deal with.

You can even buy an 883, and do a 1200 kit later, sidestepping all the depreciation nonsense of multiple trades. Somebody is making money at every step in that process. Not denigrating profit, just acknowledging a reality.

Suspension (usually overlooked period at a Harley dealer) can be made world class on the standard and R models by adding the suspension off the old "S" model Sportsers. Fully three way adjustable Showa units front and rear transform the bike, for about $800. And you can eBay the old stuff quickly to defray the costs.

Then you have a (for a cruiser) lightweight, well suspended, muscular Harley for the price of Japanese. Air cooled, simple, able to be repaired just about anywhere.

I will admit to a bias
http://homepage.mac.com/tschoepe/.Pictures/Motorcycles/Sporty/06historicright.jpg

As a former "only Honda" guy, and my next bike will be something more track focused, my Sporty has made me so happy that the only way I could sell it would be if the XR1200 comes to the US.

PassTheGravy
12-27-2006, 01:46 PM
I agree with Chirpy. The Sportster is a great bike, easy to ride, and very low maintenance. The 883, or even the 1200R, would be a good step up from the Rebel. There are probably left-over '06 883's still around that could be bought for less than $6,000. That's a bargain considering that most Jap cruisers in the 800cc range will cost more than that.

Earlier in this thread, someone said the big twins will out handle a Sportster. My experience is completely the opposite. I've ridden a lot of big twins, and none of them even come close to the handling of the Sportster.

Squidward
12-27-2006, 01:52 PM
The sportster is a great bike....however, if your focus is strictly for a smooth cruiser with a ton of attitude, then any of the H-D's or even the Victory's will do.

ben1364
12-27-2006, 04:41 PM
wrote in part, " <snip> Earlier in this thread, someone said the big twins will out handle a Sportster. My experience is completely the opposite. I've ridden a lot of big twins, and none of them even come close to the handling of the Sportster.

Depends on the meaning of handling, don't you think? Different strokes for...

SKEETER
12-27-2006, 04:53 PM
if you want to stop when you need to, turn quickly or accelerate fast, then don't get a Harley. branding is the only reason they are so popular. their are many more bikes that are a lot safer to ride.

ben1364
12-27-2006, 05:20 PM
if you want to stop when you need to, turn quickly or accelerate fast, then don't get a Harley. branding is the only reason they are so popular. their are many more bikes that are a lot safer to ride.

Be nice Skeeter! As I said, different strokes. Whatever you (or I) think of H-D motorcycles vis a vis other brands, the motor company is a marketer without peers. They sell more large motorcycles than anyone else in the U S market and a whole lot more t-shirts, chrome and dew rags than the rest combined. <smile>

SKEETER
12-27-2006, 05:26 PM
true dat....:giveup:

Red Brown
12-27-2006, 06:15 PM
I am fresh from the MSF course and still getting comfortable with my skills using a Honda Rebel.

Any insights are appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

Congratulations on passing the MSF course.

I found myself in a similiar situation some time ago. I considered Harley or a cruiser type until I tried other types of bikes such as a V-Strom by Suzuki (6.5K new). I have never looked back at cruisers as an option since then. I say this so you are aware of my bias.

Having said this, I have always wanted to try a Harley. I went one day when my main bike was being serviced and rented a new 2006 Harley Sporster (12K fer a new one). It was the worst ride of my life. It was rough, horrific wind buffeting and had terrible handling characteristics. The other area of concern is Harley are less reliable than Japanese bikes, cost more and don't really reflect value as do their Japanese counterparts. If I was set on a cruiser, I would stick with a Japanese brand due to their super service record.

In Austin, a good place to check out other used biked is Craigs List at:

http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/

The other consideration is the social ride group thing. In general Harley riders tend to stick more with their own and tend to not mix much with other non-Harley rider. It is sorta of a cult-like following. You tend to have much less the ego thing with Japanese bike riders, except sometimes BMW people. If you are going to hang mainly with the Harley crowd, then try a used one.

I would suggest you rent one for a day or two to see which model suits you. There is usually is a Harley dealer in most large cities that also have a rental department.

Best Luck,

Red

PlanoRider
12-27-2006, 07:17 PM
Thanks everyone for the continued great advice! Keep it coming!!!

Someone pointed out one reason I am considering HD rather than a Metric is that I can go anywhere with a HD. The HOG groups would not really be very welcoming to someone on a Honda but the Metric crowd does not care if you ride a HD, or not so I have heard..... I know it sounds superficial but I do like options.

I understand the jap bikes are much more bang for the buck than the HD. There is really no question. But a used HD can cost very little to own when you consider how much you can sell it for a few years later. Whereas the metrics seem to really drop in value over the years hard just like cars. Of course on the other side of that same coin I can get a used metric for almost nothing compared to the $15K I am looking at for a Big Twin.......

Many have emphasised that the most important thing in this decision is what type of riding I would be doing. I fixed in on the crusiers early because that is what I see myself doing. Crusing. Mostly fair weather driving on pretty weekends. Running short errands. Occasionally but rarely doing my daily work commute but never every day....... I suspect the longest drives will be when the family goes camping somewhere about 3 hours from home and I may ride the bike while they pull the RV......

It is interesting to see the difference of opinion on HD handling. I mean I think we all agree that some crotch rocket almost vertical front forks is going to handle better than almost any crusier. There was one place that I went that had a Honda Rune. For those that have seen this bike it looks more like an italian sculpture than a bike and it is amazingly long. One of the techs there said he rode it once and could not wait to get off it. Said it was almost impossible to turn...... So are HD's about the same as metric cruisers? Or are they really harder to ride than the metrics?

Also I was surprised to hear about the maintaince issues. I thought HD had worked most of that out? I am sure a Honda anything is going to more reliable than anything else. My family had a Honda lawn mower for over 25 years. The company makes amazing products but I thought HD was at least reasonably reliable. I thought with the belt drive fuel injected big twins it was just oil changes and the rare occasional adjustment? Is that not the case????


Thanks for all the help!!!
Mike

scratch
12-27-2006, 07:20 PM
...The other area of concern is Harley are less reliable than Japanese bikes...
Not to start an argument here (I don't have a dog in this fight anyway) but that's a pretty sweeping statement and needs to be supported with some factual data.

Hey! You can't talk smack like that and not expect a call-back! :lol2: ;-)

Jack Giesecke
12-27-2006, 07:48 PM
I think Harley pretty well caught up in the quality/reliability department. I won't include Buell here, don't know what they've been doing lately. But, The Harley of the 70s is long dead. They're plenty enough reliable now days IMHO.

jhansen
12-27-2006, 08:23 PM
Maintenance problems? None so far with my 2005 FLSTCI. Works good, lasts a long time. Now, the seat......

Texas T
12-27-2006, 08:30 PM
Now, the seat......
Yours, or its? :lol2:

Gilk51
12-27-2006, 08:36 PM
Now, the seat......
That seems to be the chink in the armor of most bikes - any brand - most folks are not happy with the stock seat and get something else.

Jack Giesecke
12-27-2006, 08:40 PM
Someone pointed out one reason I am considering HD rather than a Metric is that I can go anywhere with a HD. The HOG groups would not really be very welcoming to someone on a Honda but the Metric crowd does not care if you ride a HD, or not so I have heard..... I know it sounds superficial but I do like options.

I normally ride alone anyway, but I've never cared what anyone thought of what I was riding. I know why I like it, that's all that's necessary. I never followed the crowd, either. If they don't want me ridin' with 'em, it's their loss. But, I've been there, done that with the club thing many years ago. I rode with the San Jac High Rollers/Baytown for a while. I grew out of it, moved on, did my thing. I've got a few friends with bikes, but not around here. Tried the GWRRA thing when I bought my old Wing, but don't care for that, either. Been to Sturgis, Daytona, Laughlin. I met friends at Laughlin and rode with a friend to Sturgis to meet other friends. I took my daughter in the sidecar to Daytona mostly for the racing in '99. I cared less what anyone thought of my Suzuki, not even a cruiser.

But, everyone has their thing. Some are into the bike thing for the group thing. I know folks like that, mostly Harley guys, but the Wingers fit that description.

jhansen
12-27-2006, 08:43 PM
Yours, or its? :lol2:
Starts with the bikes and then drifts to mine. It's good for about 100 miles then I have to get OFF! My bladder full warning lite comes on about then too. 600-1000 bucks for an aftermarket seat isn't in the cards...yet.:trust:

DFW_Warrior
12-27-2006, 08:46 PM
Someone pointed out one reason I am considering HD rather than a Metric is that I can go anywhere with a HD. The HOG groups would not really be very welcoming to someone on a Honda but the Metric crowd does not care if you ride a HD, or not so I have heard..... I know it sounds superficial but I do like options.


If any group shuns you for the brand of motorcycle you own, I wouldn't step foot near them for the rest of my life. That just seems like a bunch of guys that need to have their egos stroked to seem like they are important IMHO.


I understand the jap bikes are much more bang for the buck than the HD. There is really no question. But a used HD can cost very little to own when you consider how much you can sell it for a few years later. Whereas the metrics seem to really drop in value over the years hard just like cars. Of course on the other side of that same coin I can get a used metric for almost nothing compared to the $15K I am looking at for a Big Twin.......


DON'T BUY NEW!!!! Either Harley, or a Metric. Harley's aren't exactly holding the resale like they used to. There are just too many of them being bought and sold these days. Yes, the $15k Harley you bought new, can resale for $10-11k after a season's worth of miles on it. But the Metric you bought new for $8k can now be resold for $6k. So you've now actually lost LESS money with the metric. The secret to not losing your shirt is to buy used one way or another. Let someone else take that hit from buying new. But just cause it says Harley, don't assume that it is some magic money making motorcycle, it's not.


Many have emphasised that the most important thing in this decision is what type of riding I would be doing. I fixed in on the crusiers early because that is what I see myself doing. Crusing. Mostly fair weather driving on pretty weekends. Running short errands. Occasionally but rarely doing my daily work commute but never every day....... I suspect the longest drives will be when the family goes camping somewhere about 3 hours from home and I may ride the bike while they pull the RV......

With that type of riding, almost any bike would suit you just fine, cruisers, sport-tourers, standards, and so forth.


It is interesting to see the difference of opinion on HD handling. I mean I think we all agree that some crotch rocket almost vertical front forks is going to handle better than almost any crusier. There was one place that I went that had a Honda Rune. For those that have seen this bike it looks more like an italian sculpture than a bike and it is amazingly long. One of the techs there said he rode it once and could not wait to get off it. Said it was almost impossible to turn...... So are HD's about the same as metric cruisers? Or are they really harder to ride than the metrics?

Yes, HD's handle just about the same as most of the Metric cruisers out their. And just because a crotch rocket has far less rake than a cruiser doesn't mean it handles any better. It means that it handles "differently". Neither one is better than the other, but they have their own place. If I was doing a ton of freeway cruising, I wouldn't want a bike with a super steep rake. They become quite twitchy, and tend to follow road surface changes very easy. And if I wanted to hit some of my favorite back roads and twisties, I wouldn't want to be taking a cruiser. I want something that will be a little more fun in the corners. See what I mean??

BTW, if it looks more like art than a motorcycle (Rune, most Choppers, and so forth) they are meant to be looked at and not ridden.;-) But I wouldn't form an opinion on a group of bikes from someones experience on an "art display".:mrgreen:


Also I was surprised to hear about the maintaince issues. I thought HD had worked most of that out? I am sure a Honda anything is going to more reliable than anything else. My family had a Honda lawn mower for over 25 years. The company makes amazing products but I thought HD was at least reasonably reliable. I thought with the belt drive fuel injected big twins it was just oil changes and the rare occasional adjustment? Is that not the case????

Harley actually has one of the lowest % of complaints in relation to the number of bikes on the market than almost any one else. I can't remember where I read that, but it was in a Motorcycle magazine a little while back. Harley's are just fine now a days. But some people (myself included) still like to take a little shot at them and joke around a bit.

Good luck on your choice, which ever type of bike you decide. Just remember, think "V-Strom":trust:

Hairsmith
12-27-2006, 09:15 PM
Good luck on your choice, which ever type of bike you decide. Just remember, think "V-Strom":trust:

Man it did not take you long to convert ! :lol2:
Congratulations on the new ride:clap:

DFW_Warrior
12-27-2006, 09:22 PM
I'm a quick learner!!

Chirpy
12-27-2006, 09:46 PM
The other area of concern is Harley are less reliable than Japanese bikes, cost more and don't really reflect value as do their Japanese counterparts. If I was set on a cruiser, I would stick with a Japanese brand due to their super service record.

Really? Compare not only the recalls of the past two years of Harley versus Honda, but also the severity of the issue. Then haunt some Honda boards and learn of the "hidden recalls". In other words, if you fuss enough it's free, if you don't fuss, you pay.

Can't recall any Harley's cracking their frame lately. I don't think any Harley's built this century have any less build quality than a Honda. Paint and chrome are far ahead of anything Japan has ever offered, except maybe a Rune. The quality thing is an AMF-era issue, long dead.

The other consideration is the social ride group thing. In general Harley riders tend to stick more with their own and tend to not mix much with other non-Harley rider. It is sorta of a cult-like following.


Kinda like the sport-touring guys denigrating anything with clip ons? Or squids not "respecting" anyone who can't wheelie through three gears?

In general, this attitude is held by people who have never owned a Harley. I catch much more grief from non-Harley riders when I'm on my Sporty than I ever have from Harley riders when I'm on one of my other bikes.

Of course when you pick your bike up and ride it home when snow is falling in Austin, you do get a certain leeway from the dealership crowd. Even if you tend to wear a helmet.

You tend to have much less the ego thing with Japanese bike riders, except sometimes BMW people. If you are going to hang mainly with the Harley crowd, then try a used one.

I would suggest you rent one for a day or two to see which model suits you. There is usually is a Harley dealer in most large cities that also have a rental department.

I think ego is for the most part the preview of the rider, not the brand. Also how you act when you get off will largely determine how you get treated by anyone on any brand. I think that percentage wise there's a lot more posers on Beemers than Harleys, but since Harley outsell them 33 to 1 total poser count is much higher, I'll admit. But the biggest 'hole I've ever met rode an R6. So what?

I'd agree on renting one though. Mostly because one person's "handling" is straight line stability and another's is quick response to corners and lane changes. My buddy say my bike is twitchy, I think his Softail is a barge. And the most miserable 45 minutes on a bike I've ever had was on a GL1800.

swallack
12-27-2006, 11:03 PM
In general Harley riders tend to stick more with their own and tend to not mix much with other non-Harley rider.

That's not so accurate. I know bunches of Harley riders that don't care what you ride when you ride. Heck, my wife has a Shadow and when the weather gets too cold for her (i.e., Winter), I ride it for her every so many weeks.

hetkind
12-28-2006, 12:41 AM
I think that percentage wise there's a lot more posers on Beemers than Harleys, but since Harley outsell them 33 to 1 total poser count is much higher, I'll admit. But the biggest 'hole I've ever met rode an R6. So what?


I don't know what circles YOU hang out with, but in the beemer crowd I know, the only bikes with speedometers with low miles (like under 5k year) have new speedometers on them. Or maybe you hang out with the bmw cruiser riders, you know, the BMW electroglide? To sell that bike, they had to detune the engine to give it less horsepower (55 vs 85 of the GS, R, RS or RT), stretch the wheelbase so the seat can drop lower and totally screws up the handling. Those guys are posers. Why don't you mosey down to the Iron Butt Rally next summer and see REAL LD riders.

On the other hand almost all the HD riders I work with, professionally, put on less than 1,500 miles a year. I had a very light year with only 10k miles put on three different bikes. Too much work and not enough play.

My newest bike with the lowest miles is a 2004 BMW R1150R Rockster with 45k miles on it


Howard

jhansen
12-28-2006, 12:46 AM
I put roughly 8500 miles on mine this year. Commuting, mental health day rides and Patriot Guard missions (longest was 500 miles in one day).

Chirpy
12-28-2006, 12:59 AM
I don't know what circles YOU hang out with, but in the beemer crowd I know,

The last "beemer crowd" I was in was the kind that back into your parked motorcycle while paddlefooting their "Adventure" GS with the aluminum cases out of a parking space while adjusting their bike to bike intercom so they can talk to their buddy with a closed faceshield.

He never noticed me standing on the other side of him screaming "STOP! STOP!" as he drug his cases down the side of my SuperHawk. I was restrained from slapping his helmet before he pulled off. Last time I went to Lone Star's BBQ.

And I seriously doubt that ALL GSs go to Alaska or Terra del Fuego. So there's as much pose potential there as a wannabe Bandido heading over to Jack's Backyard. Just a different pose in a different costume.

Also, when someone is retorting to sweeping generalizations with sweeping generalizations, you shouldn't get bent out of shape thinking it's aimed at you. Unless you're a sweeping general.

Uh, I didn't even mention LD riders, so I'm not sure why your hair's up. But since you did, my wife's opinion is that they don't like to spend time with their families. Kinda hard to argue that one, even if I wanted to.

Who cares what they did to the motor, James Bond rode one! Is was the best selling model in the lineup for how many years?

Oh, maybe I just figured it out. I meant YAMAHA R6.

hetkind
12-28-2006, 01:09 AM
That would be ONE inconsiderate BMW rider who was inconsiderate to you. Or I could bolt on straight pipes and be inconsiderate to everyone at once. Tell you what, let me know what your address is and I will take the glass packs off the headers s on my hot rod truck (68 dodge d100, short narrow) and cruise down your street all night long...

I know many people, with good familie lives who compete in Iron Butt Events...I know couples who compete together in the events.

Personally, I think you are pissed at the one guy who gouged your bike and are blaming ALL BMW riders. Should I blame you for all the guys running around on HDs with straight pipes.

And I have a BMW dual sport also, look at my avitar. But I pay attention to what I am doing...

Howard


The kind that back into your parked motorcycle while paddlefooting their "Adventure" GS with the aluminum cases out of a parking space while adjusting their bike to bike intercom so they can talk to their buddy with a closed faceshield.

He never noticed me standing on the other side of him screaming "STOP! STOP!" as he drug his cases down the side of my SuperHawk. I was restrained from slapping his helmet before he pulled off. Last time I went to Lone Star's BBQ.

And I seriously doubt that ALL GSs go to Alaska or Terra del Fuego. So there's as much pose potential there as a wannabe Bandido heading over to Jack's Backyard. Just a different pose in a different costume.

Also, when someone is retorting to sweeping generalizations with sweeping generalizations, you shouldn't get bent out of shape thinking it's aimed at you. Unless you're a sweeping general.

As far as the IBA, my wife's opinion is that they don't like to spend time with their families. Kinda hard to argue that one.

Chirpy
12-28-2006, 01:31 AM
No, it's just the one story I shared. He's the only person I blame. Of course no one in the crowd watching bothered to stop him. Glad he didn't shove hard enough to knock it off the side stand, or then I'm sure he would have had some attention.

I didn't even mention the loooong standing Saturday morning ride in Austin where the BMWs park in a different place, leave 15 minutes before everybody else, and when we get to breakfast they have their own tables pulled away from the group.

Who cares? Let 'em have their fun. I guess they need it.

And I think befarkled, GPS'd, Nintendo'd, weather radio'd, cell phone'd, FRS linked bikes are missing the point. But I really don't care if you want to buy it and put it on your bike. Different strokes, etc... But I think fringe is dumb. Even on horses.

Look, I thought you were inflamed over the R6 thing, I tried to straighten that out. Sorry if it didn't help.

As to your Iron Butted couples, I bet they don't have toddlers at home. Most LD riders I know are empty nesters. Right now my wife (and myself's) definiton of family is shorthand for toddlers at home. And I still don't know why you started the whole LD thing in the first place? When did I freakin mention LD riders until you started fussing about them?

I'd suggest that if you want to continue to flame me about something I didn't say, do it via PM and let this poor guy have his thread back.

And you're not helping paint a picture of loving, caring, considerate, warm and fuzzy Beemer riders you know :-( Everybody expects us degenerate Sporty riders to start bar fights, not the Beemer guys.

CeeBee
12-28-2006, 01:48 AM
Hello Mike,
Seems everybody has an opinion, I may as well join in!
Your new, your excited and can't wait to get back in the seat. I love that!
There's a lot of info going your way right now and you may need time to soak it in and gather more. Define your riding style by riding and learning. If a person is new at a sport, playing music or even writing - or anything and somebody asks them what their style of (playing, riding, writing) is. What would you say? I don't know, I just started. Don't pigeon hole your self this early on. One basic rule of thumb is to wear out a brand new rear tire before you change bikes (and no burn outs, that's cheating). Go to dealerships of every brand and sit on all the bikes (you don't have to wait for a salesman). Harley is a great bike - I own a Road King - but if you don't cross state lines a lot I would not own a long hauler of any make.
Personally I enjoyed my Yamaha V-star 1100. It had low C/G, Handled well in town and on the road with or without a passenger. Looked great and Sounded great (with a pipe change). Bought it for $5,400 and sold it for $5,400 - 15,000 miles later.
Good luck
Chuck

Tracker
12-28-2006, 02:09 AM
:zen: :duck: :popcorn: :zen:

Loyd
12-28-2006, 02:48 AM
*random question* :mrgreen: Say, do harleys still come with a 50lb sack of kitty litter? :mrgreen: *random question*

whoa
12-28-2006, 04:18 AM
Oh, I have to get into this. I love Harley so much, I bought an AMF Harley in 1976. My buddies rode Suzuki/Honda (as had I) and they warned me about the lack of quality, and how Harley was not what it used to be.

I sold it five years later for about 75% of the purchase price, and with 125,000 miles on the odometer. The only thing beyond regular maintenance were some minor warranty repairs. The bike was fun to ride, looked/sounded great, and served me well.

I'd have a Harley now if it hadn't been for the price. Still love the bikes, know a few people who ride them and I've not seen the Harley attitude I read so much about.

When I asked for a test ride, the salesman gave me the keys and told me to have fun. OK, there may have been some paperwork, but there was no hassle, no following me around telling me how not to ride. Pretty cool. But then, the bikes do sell themselves.

As to which one, I suggest you ponder the Superglide. A classic ride. Keep us posted, I love hearing shopping stories.

hetkind
12-28-2006, 07:42 AM
?

I'd suggest that if you want to continue to flame me about something I didn't say, do it via PM and let this poor guy have his thread back.

And you're not helping paint a picture of loving, caring, considerate, warm and fuzzy Beemer riders you know :-( Everybody expects us degenerate Sporty riders to start bar fights, not the Beemer guys.


I am sorry...now exactly how did I flame you? I must have missed that...and I am a soft hearted, considerate beemer rider, I just won't put up with what I consider to be your poor attitude and bullying behavior.

And by the way, my 3 BMW and Jill's 2 BMW don't have any farkle, and our last big ride was 7,000 miles. My former toddlers are now driving and live with their mother and the years my children were small, my bike barely moved from the suburban garage while I drove the minivan.

And one last thing, the bike I rode before going to BMW was a 1968 HD XLCH Sportster, no battery, kick start only that I rebuild from a basket case.

Now does your bike have straight pipes or aftermarket exhaust?

Howard

ben1364
12-28-2006, 07:50 AM
I am sorry...now exactly how did I flame you? I must have missed that...and I am a soft hearted, considerate beemer rider, I just won't put up with what I consider to be your poor attitude and bullying behavior.

And by the way, my 3 BMW and Jill's 2 BMW don't have any farkle, and our last big ride was 7,000 miles. My former toddlers are now driving and live with their mother and the years my children were small, my bike barely moved from the suburban garage while I drove the minivan.

And one last thing, the bike I rode before going to BMW was a 1968 HD XLCH Sportster, no battery, kick start only that I rebuild from a basket case.

Now does your bike have straight pipes or aftermarket exhaust?

Howard

Hey. I'm enjoying the discourse! <BBG>

NUTT
12-28-2006, 08:15 AM
You tend to have much less the ego thing with Japanese bike riders, except sometimes BMW people.


BMW's aren't Japanese bikes, they are German bikes.

It looks like someone actually skipped geography more than I did!!!

Squidward
12-28-2006, 08:28 AM
I am sorry...now exactly how did I flame you? I must have missed that...and I am a soft hearted, considerate beemer rider, I just won't put up with what I consider to be your poor attitude and bullying behavior.

Seems you both need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

I know Beemer riders that pose on the GS's, K-bikes, etc. I know Beemer riders that pound out the miles also.
By the same token, I know many H-D riders that belt out the miles all year long. I only know of two that pose with their H-D derived motorcycles....one's an American Ironhorse chopper and the other is a Big Dog.

Not everybody fits into these nice little sweeping stereotypes.

Now everybody just let it go and hit the road....or dirt....or....:rider:

ben1364
12-28-2006, 08:30 AM
BMW's aren't Japanese bikes, they are German bikes.

It looks like someone actually skipped geography more than I did!!!

Hey Nutt, read Red's comment again. He didn't say that Beemers are built in Japan. I know Red and he's no geography slackard. <BBG>

bushwhacker
12-28-2006, 08:39 AM
Seems you both need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

I know Beemer riders that pose on the GS's, K-bikes, etc. I know Beemer riders that pound out the miles also.
By the same token, I know many H-D riders that belt out the miles all year long. I only know of two that pose with their H-D derived motorcycles....one's an American Ironhorse chopper and the other is a Big Dog.

Not everybody fits into these nice little sweeping stereotypes.

Now everybody just let it go and hit the road....or dirt....or....:rider:

Last trip I took - 3k miles - was a Ducati Multistrada, a Harley Davidson UltraClassic and a BMW 1200 Adventure. We seemed to do just fine together!

-

McLeod
12-28-2006, 08:55 AM
I think you should buy the bike that makes you happiest.
Keep up the great work on building up your skills.

I prefer dual sport bikes because the world is made up of more than pavement and mud, I want to experience it all.:rider:

I don't know if I could call anyone a poser if they were willing to strap on a helmet, (or forbid be crazy enough to go with out) throw a leg over a bike and ride on the same SUV, Cell phone talking, non signaling, insane world called Dallas traffic in the summer time at 107 F.

wildebube
12-28-2006, 08:58 AM
It looks to me like this thread has gotten entirely off track. The subject may be Should I buy a Harley, but that didnít appear to be the real question. My take on the original question was that a guy with very limited experience on a Honda Rebel wanted to know if he should jump straight to a Harley BT or if he should get some intermediate bike in between. This was never a question of, ďWhat brand should I buyĒ, or, ďWhat marketing niche should I buy intoĒ, but rather, ďIs it OK to make such a big jump?Ē At least that was my take on it.

My answer is that there is no right answer. Personally, I think you would be better off with an intermediate bike before going to a BT, but thatís just personal opinion. Most of us who have been riding for a while started small and worked up. Heck, when I started riding the British 650ís were considered big bikes. When Honda came out with the CB750-Four it was a monster. Now a 750 is a beginner bike. When I started riding on the street, I started off on a Honda 350. From there I went to a 250, another 350, a 500, a 400, a 650, an 800, a 1000, an 1100, and now Iíve been back to 650ís for my last two bikes. Many of us followed a similar progression from small bikes to bigger ones. Having said that, I personally know a guy who started off on a BMW F650CS (a 50bhp, 650cc single), rode it for less than a year, and jumped straight to a Honda CBR1000RR (a 1000cc inline four with just a tad over 50bhp). He couldnít be happier. So as I said, there is no right answer.

I had never heard of anything like the deal Full Boar Cycles is offering, but it sounds like a killer idea to me. Get something in between the Rebel and the BT and basically ride it for free. I donít know the time and mileage details that go with the plan, but even if it really doesnít work out to 100% buy-back, as long as you wouldnít have to take too big a hit, I just donít see how you could go wrong.

On the other subject, I donít really want to get into the argument, but I do have an observation. Iíve been riding BMWís for somewhere around 25 years now. In general, Iíve found BMW riders to be some of the finest and friendliest people I have ever met, but I have also seen my share of elitists as well. Just like the stereotypical Harley If it ainít Harley it ainít **** attitude, they look at anything that isnít European as substandard. There is even a contingent that wonít accept my chain-driven, Rotax-powered BMW as a REAL BMW. Itís not the norm, but itís out there.

My personal experience with Harley riders has been overwhelmingly positive. There are some HD elitists, but for the most part they are very accepting of other brands. One of my co-workers traded his Honda Shadow for a Heritage Softail Classic less than a week after I bought my Dakar. Another traded his Kawasaki Vulcan 800 for a Vulcan 1500 only a few days after that. Earlier in the summer another guy had bought a Heritage Softail Classic and yet another had sold his custom chopper and bought a new Road King - and that was just the bikes that were new this summer. As you might expect, there was quite a group trooping out to the parking garage to see the new bikes. I didnít detect the slightest bit of negativity from anybody. While admiring the new HSC, I said that even though it wasnít anything that I would ever buy, I could certainly see that it was a really nice bike and I could appreciate it for what it was. That seemed to typify their reaction to my Dakar as well.

Gilk51
12-28-2006, 10:00 AM
I work with a fella that commutes pretty much every day on his Sportster 1200, 50 miles each way. I am pretty sure that it is his first bike.

Another guy I worked with (now on a different project) is in his early 60s and bought an 883 so he and his son could ride together. After a few months, he traded for a 1200 and said that is what he should have started with. He lives in Gun Barrel City and visits The Shed after I tried to get him to join us at a Pie Run in January (he showed up when the weather cleared).

You might also read Reverendbiker's story "Whoops--I did it again... (http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11531)" for a story of V-Strom to HD to Honda to V-Strom. And his "Why I ride a V-Strom (http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3389)" for his reasons for a "standard" bike.

Personally, if you like the cruisers, a step up to a Shadow/Vulcan/Boulevard in the 750-800cc range (a good used Japanese cruiser) will tell you a little more about what you want to stick with.

Sheesh, it may take you several bikes to find what you like best. A couple of guys in Georgetown haven't figured out THAT yet... :-P

Tourmeister
12-28-2006, 02:14 PM
I sure get tired of seeing the back and forth nonsense over stereotypes every time the word Harley shows up in a thread... :suicide:

People are people. I've met great folks on EVERY brand and style of bike. I've met some real !@#$ types on EVERY brand and style of bike. To argue that one brand or the other has the corner on personality types seems quite silly :roll:

Red Brown
12-28-2006, 02:48 PM
--DFW_Warrior]If any group shuns you for the brand of motorcycle you own, I wouldn't step foot near them for the rest of my life. That just seems like a bunch of guys that need to have their egos stroked to seem like they are important IMHO.--

I agree but "elite" inspired products tend to create that....it is the same for those who spend extra money on a product that makes them feel empowered over others (ie BMW, Rolex, Porsche etc.). Harley has done a superb job at exploiting the "lifestyle image" of the rebel biker. Their NYSE stock has been one to the best to own the past several years!

The Harley crowds buys this lifestyle with lots of accessories, add-ons and other gizmos to express their belief in the Harley brand. I prefer VALUE...a 650 cc DL650 VeeeeStrom at 6.5K is a much better value than a HD Sporster at 10K.

If you want to ride just to the bar or shoot around with the weekend warrior lawyer with a tattoo please choose a Harley. If a person is courting the opposite sex, I can see that the design and glamour perceived of those having a Harley can increase it's appeal. For me, I want a bike that can take lots of heavy miles, be versatile and does not require lots of mods to run right!

Just a wild thought...if you have 5,000 randomly selected Sporster and V-Strom ride non-stop except for fuel, that most of the HD would break down long before the Suzuki did. Why don't more serious long-distance riders use HD on the large-scale Iron Butt? BTW, the Austin Police Department recently dumped their Harley's in favor of the BMW RT and in Round Rock they have acquired the Honda ST1300 for their force. The police were complaining that during high-speed pursuits it was too scary riding a HD.

-DON'T BUY NEW!!!! Either Harley, or a Metric. Harley's aren't exactly holding the resale like they used to.-

I don't know...but I have noticed that a majority of bikes for sale tend to be Harley. It might be they are bought as a "toy" to have and show-off until the novelty wears off or they get a thirst for something more ride friendly.

-Harley actually has one of the lowest % of complaints in relation to the number of bikes on the market than almost any one else.-

-Good luck on your choice, which ever type of bike you decide. Just remember, think "V-Strom" -

Yea..although I don't own one, they are one of the best value bikes out there. I think I saw a blue one posted on the Austin craigslist.com site.

Red

PS Like most generalizations there are exceptions and I have met several wonderful, and gracious HD riders..I speak of my overall impressions to date.

Jack Giesecke
12-28-2006, 02:59 PM
Yes, HD's handle just about the same as most of the Metric cruisers out their. And just because a crotch rocket has far less rake than a cruiser doesn't mean it handles any better.

I'd take issue with this statement, but I guess it depends on what you call "better handling". To me, it's higher cornerspeed and quicker response and that's what a tighter geometry gives you. Long raked bikes like cruisers tend to push the front, understeer, really bad. Of course, most of 'em run out of lean clearance before you get to that point.

As to brands and poseurs, I haven't seen too many poseurs on Beemers. Most of the guys I've known that rode Beemers were hard core. I guess this one friend I had back in the day sorta sways my opinion, though. This guy was 30 something at the time and had never gotten a license to drive a car, been riding bikes all his life. He had a couple of beemers, KTMs, a SR500, a RZ350, but never owned a car or truck. This guy was hard core with a capital H. Those beemer adds with the guy with dirt all over him, that's sorta how I view Beemer guys. I'd like to have one myself to pose on...:mrgreen:...but for the price of admission. There's always something that's been a better buy that I wanted more for some reason. I still have an itch for an RT, though.

NUTT
12-28-2006, 03:56 PM
Hey Nutt, read Red's comment again. He didn't say that Beemers are built in Japan. I know Red and he's no geography slackard. <BBG>

I have a pretty strong grasp of the English language. What I'm reading in the quote below is that HD riders don't mix well with others. There is much less ego with Japanese bike riders, the exception being BMW riders.

IE, He is stating that BMW's are Japanese bikes.

While I'm certain that the intent was not to say this, the verbage is clear.

The other consideration is the social ride group thing. In general Harley riders tend to stick more with their own and tend to not mix much with other non-Harley rider. It is sorta of a cult-like following. You tend to have much less the ego thing with Japanese bike riders, except sometimes BMW people. If you are going to hang mainly with the Harley crowd, then try a used one.


This thread has gotten out of control!

The original poster should buy and ride what he feels comfortable on. One alternative could be a Buell Ulysses. The ergos and power are pretty good and you can still hang with the HD riders if you want to.

The Bruce
12-28-2006, 04:56 PM
I sure get tired of seeing the back and forth nonsense over stereotypes every time the word Harley shows up in a thread... :suicide:

People are people. I've met great folks on EVERY brand and style of bike. I've met some real !@#$ types on EVERY brand and style of bike. To argue that one brand or the other has the corner on personality types seems quite silly :roll:
:clap: :rider:

corndog
12-28-2006, 05:55 PM
My first and only bike is a 05 Deluxe, which I have enjoyed very much. It is about an inch lower than the other HD bikes which seems to make it parking lot friendly.

PlanoRider
12-28-2006, 06:36 PM
I think you should buy the bike that makes you happiest.
Keep up the great work on building up your skills.

I prefer dual sport bikes because the world is made up of more than pavement and mud, I want to experience it all.:rider:

I don't know if I could call anyone a poser if they were willing to strap on a helmet, (or forbid be crazy enough to go with out) throw a leg over a bike and ride on the same SUV, Cell phone talking, non signaling, insane world called Dallas traffic in the summer time at 107 F.

Hey Tery!!!

I was right there with you until you got to 107F..... I might be a little bit more of a poser there... LOL

Mike

loki
12-28-2006, 10:07 PM
When you can wow a crowd of 100s of people with your bike handling prowess and earn the respect of your riding peers... I would think YES! :mrgreen:

Any squid with enough money to buy a hyper-performance sport bike can go 100 MPH in a straight line. Real skill is shown in the curves... all the more so when low speed is involved. :hail:

I'm not doubting skill. In fact, I don't even know how/why that was brought into the discussion. I asked if it was fun. On any given weekend I doubt some random rider could gather 100 people in a parking lot to cheer him/her on to make it fun. I can't recall a time when another rider told me he/she was going to ride cones in a parking lot for a couple hours for fun. I was making a sarcastic/comedic remark to DFW_Warrior's comment about handling. My point being; yes, someone with enough skill can get any bike to handle like that at slow speed...but...is that a criteria for purchase? No. Because that's not what you're going to be doing...ever.

SparkyBlue
12-29-2006, 08:35 AM
I rode a Sportster once, always thought they looked cool. It shook and was noisy, no to low power, with ill handling. The sparkle was gone after the one ride. Maybe the big ones are better(heavier at least)

kurt
12-29-2006, 08:42 AM
I rode a Sportster once, always thought they looked cool. It shook and was noisy, no to low power, with ill handling. The sparkle was gone after the one ride. Maybe the big ones are better(heavier at least)

Much has changed since '05 when they started rubber mounting engines on (I think) all models. It might be surprising to try out some of the newer ones. They still have "character", but really smooth out as the revs build.

DFW_Warrior
12-29-2006, 08:52 AM
I'd take issue with this statement, but I guess it depends on what you call "better handling". To me, it's higher cornerspeed and quicker response and that's what a tighter geometry gives you. Long raked bikes like cruisers tend to push the front, understeer, really bad. Of course, most of 'em run out of lean clearance before you get to that point.

And that is just fine, for "you". But it may not be fine for someone else. I personally don't want a bike that is so twitchy that one little gust of a cross wind blows me 6 feet to one side or the other. I like bikes that are rock solid stable at freeway speeds. The word better is in the eye of the beholder, not just little weekend racers that want vertical forks, super short wheelbases and super twitchy bikes. Planorider doesn't seem like the type of rider that is concerned with dragging knees through turns and doing 150 down front straightaways. Just try to remember, not everyone wants to go out and be Rossi on two wheels. They make bikes for different purposes, and to be honest with you none of them are "better" than the others. They are different. So I take issue with the term better. Because, to be honest with you, sport bikes are NOT better than cruisers, period.

Thank you, come again.

The Bruce
12-29-2006, 09:08 AM
Should I buy a Harley? Yes, if you want to. Which one? The one you like, can afford and feels comfortable while you are sitting on it. The rest is up to the rider. Enjoy!

oldschool
12-29-2006, 10:14 AM
man, if you can afford it, just buy the bike. the cg is low. i had this funky little kawasaki 500 vulcan, and there's no difference other than low down weight. i ride an flhtc. if you waste your money on the "smaller, lighter, etc." you'll kick yourself for wasting time and money when all that time you'd have been gaining experience on your lifetime ride. yeah, you'll fall off... pine straw, kickstand, leaning over for something etc. however on a small bike, you'll get cocky about pushing its limits and it will bite you. a big harley isn't as intimidating as it seems and once you get on the road you'll realize you can ride forever and it doesn't beat you down.

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 10:26 AM
And that is just fine, for "you". But it may not be fine for someone else. I personally don't want a bike that is so twitchy that one little gust of a cross wind blows me 6 feet to one side or the other. I like bikes that are rock solid stable at freeway speeds. The word better is in the eye of the beholder, not just little weekend racers that want vertical forks, super short wheelbases and super twitchy bikes. Planorider doesn't seem like the type of rider that is concerned with dragging knees through turns and doing 150 down front straightaways. Just try to remember, not everyone wants to go out and be Rossi on two wheels. They make bikes for different purposes, and to be honest with you none of them are "better" than the others. They are different. So I take issue with the term better. Because, to be honest with you, sport bikes are NOT better than cruisers, period.

Thank you, come again.

Sounds like you got up on the wrong side of the rock this morning.:rofl: Hey, have you ever BEEN on a sportbike? Twitchy? Not when you get used to it. They're rock stable if properly set up. I owned a VX800, spindly, flexible old school chassis, that had a high speed wobble problem. It had a cruiser like rake and trail numbers. It ran a cruiser (Intruder 800) motor. Back when bikes didn't have such strong, stiff frames, lots of rake was necessary to get high speed straight line stability. Sport frames are much stiffer and allow the tighter rake angles while remaining perhaps MORE straight line stable than a typical cruiser. Yet, they won't push in a corner and they steer much quicker around that road obstruction you didn't see until the last minute. Actually, I believe, with a sport bike's nimble handling, light weight, and superior brakes, they're safer in traffic.

The alter ego is touring. I ain't gettin' on no R1 to ride I10 to Aridzona. Wish I COULD stand it because once there I'd have a much better time on all those mountain roads, but a Wing babies the back better. A cruiser with a good seat and a windshield is similar. In fact, I sort of think of my old GoldWing as a full dressed cruiser. After all, there's the Honda Valkerie and that Prune, er, Rune or whatever it is, basically just naked cruisered up Wings. The Valk ain't much more than a GL1500 stripped, actually. But, it's those trips to Aridzona where a sport tourer comes to play. Then, there's those dirt roads out there. The most versatile of all bikes is the adventure tourer. A V Strom's chassis shares much more in common with it's brother, the SV, than it does with any Cruiser. It corners well, it steers relatively quick, yet it's comfy straight up down the highway and can handle a dirt or gravel road where the touring bike stops. That's probably where my next bike will be, adventurer tour.

I'm 54 years old. I don't do a lot of corner strafing anymore on the highway, but I still enjoy a nimble bike and I still know how to ride it. My variety of riding interests is why I cannot just own one motorcycle, which is hard on a tight budget, but so be it I guess. My "sport" bike is an SV650S because it's fast enough in a 70 mph world and properly set up, it handles as well as any sport bike. It's rock solid in crosswinds, don't blow around NEAR as much as that old Wing with it's clear plastic sail and all that aerodynamic drag. And when a side wind hits me on the SV, it steers into the wind much easier/quicker.

Do yourself a favor and ride a few sport bikes before you go postulating how they handle.

NUTT
12-29-2006, 10:59 AM
You should buy yourself a Rat-O-Glide!!!

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/254217788.html

Ghost Rider
12-29-2006, 11:03 AM
I am a fan of a graduated licensing system, and the same goes for motorcycles. I would still buy the Harley, but I think it is more a matter of timing. It might be worth riding the Rebel a bit more before making your next purchase. Get a few more miles and experience under your belt. However, this time of year can lead to some pretty good deals. What to do?

Buy what ever model of H-D fits you best. Being comfortable on the bike goes a long ways to having proper control of the machine. Keep the Rebel a bit longer, and make a transition between the two if the bank account allows for it. The rebel can be a handy thing when you plan on making a trip to a crowded location like Wal-mart. Once you feel confident in your low-speed maneuvering skills, riding a bigger (heavier) bike is a less daunting task in crowded spaces, and the Harley subsequently becomes your daily "driver".

You are far more likely to have a tip over in the parking lot, than to have a mishap at freeway cruising speeds.

DFW_Warrior
12-29-2006, 12:06 PM
Sounds like you got up on the wrong side of the rock this morning.:rofl: Hey, have you ever BEEN on a sportbike? Twitchy? Not when you get used to it. They're rock stable if properly set up

And on the other side of the coin, cruisers can handle quite well if you know how to ride them. Trust me on this one. There were quite a few sport bike riders that I had the pleasure of surprising while on my Warrior. As for crosswinds, there is NO comparison between an SV and a cruiser. How do I know, because my wife has an SV and I had a cruiser. I've ridden them both many, many times. If you even think that the SV or any sport bike for that matter handles winds like a cruiser than I do know for a fact you haven't spent any time at all on cruisers. Even my new Strom gets blown around a lot more than my Warrior used to.


Do yourself a favor and ride a few sport bikes before you go postulating how they handle.

Been there, done that. And I do know how they handle. Compared to today's modern cruisers they are "twitchy" IMHO. Yes, I know that you don't call them that. That's because you ride them all day long. But you call cruisers slow, ill handling, and unsafe , and I don't. So really, neither one is better than the other. They are just "different". Trying to say one is better than the other is like saying someone's Corvette is better than my Silvarado truck.

Sooooooooo, you ever even been on a cruiser before? One that's been made after '85? They've changed a little bit since then......:rofl:

ben1364
12-29-2006, 12:20 PM
Should I buy a Harley? Yes, if you want to. Which one? The one you like, can afford and feels comfortable while you are sitting on it. The rest is up to the rider. Enjoy!

Very well said Bruce. The "best" bike is the one that the owner/rider likes the most and can afford. There is no 'one size fits all' "best bike" for everyone and there is no "best brand" of motorcycle. All have strengths and weaknesses when compared with others. The only thing that I might add by way of advice is to take an extended ride (at least two hours) on any bike model before plunking down the bucks. This assumes the purchaser intends to do more than bar hop.

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 12:29 PM
I am a fan of a graduated licensing system, and the same goes for motorcycles.

Me, too, but let's not get THAT started. :rolleyes: :lol2:


Sooooooooo, you ever even been on a cruiser before? One that's been made after '85? They've changed a little bit since then......

The chassis has changed for the worse on Harleys IMHO. The FXR was a far better handling bike than the Dyna. But, the Harley faithful hated it, called it a "Jap clone". Well, now FXRs are sought after, go figure... :rolleyes: Yes, I've ridden Kaw Vulcans, Honda Shadows, Harleys both big and Sportster, a friend's Yamaha V Star1100. Haven't been on an Intruder/Boulevard except for the originals.

They all have excessive rake IMHO and tend to steer too slow and push the front at mild corner speeds. They're for puttin' around, not for haulin' the mail. I've yet to see one beat an SV in D superbike, even on a windy day. :rofl:

I never cared much for the cruiser thing, too much about looks and little about substance. Your Warrior is an attempt at making a better handling, more powerful cruiser and it's a good bike. I've got nothing against cruisers, they're just not about good handling, sorry. But, they can make great tourers. I'd rather have a touring bike for touring, but hey, they'll work. The Hogs I like are the Sportster because I just like it and the Glides because they're full boat touring couches that are very good at touring. I don't care much for the wannabe 1%er bikes like the soft tails. I ain't Sonny Barger, never was.

BTW, have you ever ridden a chopper? It's the ultimate in long rake and trail and pig handling. :lol2: And, I never said a cruiser was "DANGEROUS" in traffic, just that a sport bikes handles quicker avoiding obstacles and has better brakes and to me it's safer because of that.

And on the other side of the coin, cruisers can handle quite well if you know how to ride them. Trust me on this one. There were quite a few sport bike riders that I had the pleasure of surprising while on my Warrior.

That's no proof of cruiser superior handlng, more to do with rider skill. I've out ridden a lot of guys when I had inferior iron, on track and off, nothing to do with the bike.

SparkyBlue
12-29-2006, 01:57 PM
I ain't Sonny Barger, never was.

BTW, have you ever ridden a chopper? It's the ultimate in long rake and trail and pig handling. :lol2: And, I never said a cruiser was "DANGEROUS" in traffic, just that a sport bikes handles quicker avoiding obstacles and has better brakes and to me it's safer because of that.

I recall a Sonny Barger quote that if the high performance Japanese bikes were available when the ****'s Angels were started, that's what they would be riding now. Post WWII, Harley and Indian was all there was. And Triumph but maybe not right away.

Cruising is cool, and may someday own one. But I dislike the dress up bad boy look alike culture that is popular in some circles.

ps. Imagine that, the post filter got me :mrgreen:

ysr612
12-29-2006, 01:59 PM
I never cared much for the cruiser thing, too much about looks and little about substance. Your Warrior is an attempt at making a better handling, more powerful cruiser and it's a good bike. I've got nothing against cruisers, they're just not about good handling, sorry. But, they can make great tourers. I'd rather have a touring bike for touring, but hey, they'll work. The Hogs I like are the Sportster because I just like it and the Glides because they're full boat touring couches that are very good at touring. I don't care much for the wannabe 1%er bikes like the soft tails. I ain't Sonny Barger, never was.

BTW, have you ever ridden a chopper? It's the ultimate in long rake and trail and pig handling. :lol2: And, I never said a cruiser was "DANGEROUS" in traffic, just that a sport bikes handles quicker avoiding obstacles and has better brakes and to me it's safer because of that.



That's no proof of cruiser superior handlng, more to do with rider skill. I've out ridden a lot of guys when I had inferior iron, on track and off, nothing to do with the bike.

Jack give it up you are talking with someone that thinks a his truck handles as well as a sportscar saying someone's Corvette is better than my Silvarado truck

edit now that sounded snotty what I ment was that you guys a using two very different meanings to the word handles.

I take most of my long trips on a cbr (most wind stable bike I have ever ridden) I don't however take in much over 1000 miles/day. Short trips I take a scooter.

I am not the same age as Jack so that may make a difference. :trust: :rofl:

scratch
12-29-2006, 02:14 PM
The cruiser-vs.-something-more-sporting debate could be compared to the situation with large domestic sedans vs. foreign performance sedans in the automotive world. Not a perfect analogy, but pretty close, IMHO. Just as everyone doesn't want a big, soft luxo-boat, not everyone has much use for 0-to-60-in-six-seconds power combined with .9 G grip on a skid pad either. We should just be thankful that we've got so many nice vehicles of all types to choice from. 8-)

Furthermore, there's no need to get too hung up on what type of bike you might find appealing at any given moment. Few of us depend on a motorcycle for basic transportation, so riding is really more like a hobby for most people anyway; at least in this country. Over time, your tastes and interests in anything can change, and that includes motorcycles. Buy whatever trips your switches now, ride it for a few years (or a few months in Kurt's case ;-)) then maybe trade it in on something different when the urge strikes again - or simply add to your collection if you can afford it. It's good old-fashioned consumerism at it's finest! :thumb:

ben1364
12-29-2006, 02:44 PM
The cruiser-vs.-something-more-sporting debate could be compared to the situation with large domestic sedans vs. foreign performance sedans in the automotive world.

I think it is a good analogy, Paul. For some transportation is the objective. In that case a Ford is just fine. For others transportation is secondary to the driving experience. Stated another way, what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

Cruisers don't satisfy my requirements but I will stand up for anyone else's right to buy and/or ride one. I do wish that some cruiser riders as well as some sport bike riders would be more considerate with respect to noise emissions. In the long run, it is my opinion that loud exhausts endanger the rights of the motorcycling community; not to mention the hearing of such riders as well as those who ride near them.

sherob
12-29-2006, 02:47 PM
I recall a Sonny Barger quote that if the high performance Japanese bikes were available when the ****'s Angels were started, that's what they would be riding now. Post WWII, Harley and Indian was all there was. And Triumph but maybe not right away.

Cruising is cool, and may someday own one. But I dislike the dress up bad boy look alike culture that is popular in some circles.

ps. Imagine that, the post filter got me :mrgreen:

They would all be riding ST1100's :rofl:

Barger: Well I don't think I've ever said anything good about Honda; what I said is Harleys are junk, technology wise. If I was not a Hells Angel I would probably be riding an ST1100, a BMW or a Triumph. But I am a Hells Angel so I ride a Harley, and the one good thing I can say about Harleys is they made me a good living; by being junk they need to be fixed all the time.

oldschool
12-29-2006, 03:19 PM
I dunno bout that man. Got 87000 miles on the FLH and she cranks on the "first push".

ben1364
12-29-2006, 03:27 PM
I dunno bout that man. Got 87000 miles on the FLH and she cranks on the "first push".

Hey Old School. Doesn't that think have an electric starter or even a kick starter? With only 87,000 miles it can't be over a couple years old? <g>

SparkyBlue
12-29-2006, 03:34 PM
They would all be riding ST1100's :rofl:

Barger: Well I don't think I've ever said anything good about Honda; what I said is Harleys are junk, technology wise. If I was not a Hells Angel I would probably be riding an ST1100, a BMW or a Triumph. But I am a Hells Angel so I ride a Harley, and the one good thing I can say about Harleys is they made me a good living; by being junk they need to be fixed all the time.

Well...ok. :box: An ST1100 can be high performance, if you're a good rider. A friend of mine had one, and he could make the **** thing haul ***. :trust: I cringed watching him. And some BMWs and Triumphs are high performance
But the Angels would look kinda funny on them, wouldn't match the costume :twitch:

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 03:38 PM
I am not the same age as Jack so that may make a difference. :trust: :rofl:

Glen, you're about the most hard core iron butt I know...:rofl: I pale in comparison to your long haul exploits, regardless of age.

Here's a guy that thinks a DRz400 is the perfect long haul touring bike. :lol2:

Furthermore, there's no need to get too hung up on what type of bike you might find appealing at any given moment. Few of us depend on a motorcycle for basic transportation, so riding is really more like a hobby for most people anyway

Speak for yourself. Unless I actually NEED that gas hog van, I'm on a bike. I even have hauled my race bike to the track with a GoldWing to avoid driving that thing. :mrgreen: Glen used to be that way, but may not be so much now that he's got that Miata. :lol2:

ysr612
12-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Glen, you're about the most hard core iron butt I know...:rofl: I pale in comparison to your long haul exploits, regardless of age.

Here's a guy that thinks a DRz400 is the perfect long haul touring bike. :lol2:

800 miles is my record for drz in one day and that was can you stand up for 14hrs. even got to talk to the man he aint' no nicer in wisconsin then in Texas. I was doing 60 in a 55 I thought it was a 65 and he said I was doing 80. So he gave me a warning in short he didn't have the fainest how fast I was going.
http://ysr612.smugmug.com/photos/7460987-M-1.jpg


Speak for yourself. Unless I actually NEED that gas hog van, I'm on a bike. I even have hauled my race bike to the track with a GoldWing to avoid driving that thing. :mrgreen: Glen used to be that way, but may not be so much now that he's got that Miata. :lol2:

that stupid car only gets a couple of miles/gal better then my wifes f250 but I have put 6k miles on it that would have been all bike.

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Never argue with the nice ociffer er officer. :lol2:

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 04:17 PM
btw, longest day I ever had in the saddle was about 800 miles on the VX800 and I thought I'd contracted a hemorrhoid for several days after I got home. :rofl: Maybe I shoulda stood on the pegs more. :doh:

scratch
12-29-2006, 05:15 PM
Speak for yourself.
You can count on it. :thumb:

budzrex
12-29-2006, 05:44 PM
PlanoRider has by now decided the choice of a second
bike is too difficult and moved on to a Gold Wing Trike
to silence all opinions :rofl: :rofl:

oldschool
12-29-2006, 07:02 PM
87000 miles... naw, she's twenty years old... nice and easy. she made five trips to sturgis back before we met, and i've been thinking she might know the way up there, but i've heard the town's cleaned up too much to have fun. from what i gather durango is the place to go, but that ain't nearly the town it was twenty years ago either before the west coasters invaded. i think i'm going to have to start a rally just to enjoy all the drinking, dancing, fighting and ahem that i can stand. oh, about buying that harley davidson... if it's something you have to think about, then maybe you should steer a different direction. there ain't no sound like it in the world.

bedlam
12-29-2006, 07:25 PM
btw, longest day I ever had in the saddle was about 800 miles on the VX800 and I thought I'd contracted a hemorrhoid for several days after I got home. :rofl: Maybe I shoulda stood on the pegs more. :doh:


Here's a funny one:

Howard's boss, who resides in Alabama (wouldn't be nice if ALL our bosses were a couple states away??) has a Harley and he's never done much more than local riding. He, apparently inspired by Howard's tooling to the work sites in Arkansas and Oklahoma on his motorcycle, decided that he'd do the same. :rider: So, with no preparation whatsoever, decides in the July heat to take his big Hawg to the next job. He arrived sunburned, dehydrated and with some...er...POSTERIOR issues, to find Howard lounging around in complete comfort after riding an old BMW Airhead about the same distance that day. He was HATING his bike and dreading the ride home. Sure enough, he had boils that required medical attention upon his return home. :eek2: He called in sick to do just that the following Monday...

But the real kicker? Howard's 13yo DAUGHTER went, too!! Howard's boss got out-rode by a 13 yo girl. :rofl:

The moral of the story? Ride what you want, where you want, but for goodness sake's PREPARE first...

Jill

Jack Giesecke
12-29-2006, 07:40 PM
Riding jacket.......check
Dark shield..........check
sun screen..........check
preparation H.......check

:rofl:

bushwhacker
12-29-2006, 08:16 PM
i think i'm going to have to start a rally just to enjoy all the drinking, dancing, fighting and ahem that i can stand.

That would be Dawgs on Hawgs -

http://www.dawgsonhawgs.com/siteb/index.php

-

ben1364
12-29-2006, 08:23 PM
That would be Dawgs on Hawgs -

http://www.dawgsonhawgs.com/siteb/index.php

-

Not my kind of rally but to each his/her own so long as the shenanigans don't endanger my rights as a motorcyclist.

ysr612
12-29-2006, 08:36 PM
Here's a funny one:

So, with no preparation whatsoever, decides in the July heat to take his big Hawg to the next job.

Jill

back in 2000 my kid and I rode up to Wisconsin for the forth, him on his cb400T and I on my TA. on the way back we stopped at the texarkana rest stop the temp said 105. There was someone that was riding no jacket just a tee shirt badly dehydrated I felt sorry for him. People don't seem to know how to take care of themselves. We did pull in next to his bike he had been there over an hour trying to cool off.

http://ysr612.smugmug.com/photos/72754571-M.jpg

DFW_Warrior
12-29-2006, 10:05 PM
Jack give it up you are talking with someone that thinks a his truck handles as well as a sportscar

edit now that sounded snotty what I ment was that you guys a using two very different meanings to the word handles.


Well, it doesn't sound snotty, but when you only take one part of a sentence and then twist it's meaning, it does make you sound like you don't know what you are talking about, and trying to make yourself look good at the expense of someone that you've never met before. Glad it makes you feel smart.

The Silvarado vs. Corvette analogy was comparing sport bikes to cruisers, genius. Neither one can be considered "better" than the other, instead they are considered "different". There you go, now go and chop up my words again to make yourself seem smarter than you are.

Here's the whole quote just in case you lost it in your editing of it.

So really, neither one is better than the other. They are just "different". Trying to say one is better than the other is like saying someone's Corvette is better than my Silvarado truck.

I give up Jack, you are correct. No one should ride cruisers. They suck, the handle slower than racer rockets, and they're not as comfy as tourers. And they are more of a hazard on the roads since they don't handle as quick and cause riders more risk. I think we should ban them all, just like the Isle of Man. We should all be riding either Goldwings, or R1's. Since those are the only two types of motorcycles that "YOU" happen to like. So there, are you happy, if it's not Jack's way then it must be wrong. I give up.

Planorider, good luck on your R1. Don't get a cruiser to "cruise" on, because Jack doesn't like them. After all, that's what matters in the grand scheme of things.;-)

bushwhacker
12-29-2006, 10:15 PM
i think i'm going to have to start a rally just to enjoy all the drinking, dancing, fighting and ahem that i can stand.
That would be Dawgs on Hawgs -

http://www.dawgsonhawgs.com/siteb/index.php
-
Not my kind of rally but to each his/her own so long as the shenanigans don't endanger my rights as a motorcyclist.

I went a couple of times when it was at Big Creek Marina in Sommerville.

They had 10 cabins and everyone else had to camp or stay elsewhere. We always reserved early and got a cabin.

We would set up chairs behind the cabin along the "drag" and just watch the show.

One of the most fascinating places to people watch I have ever seen!:rider:

-

oldschool
12-30-2006, 01:18 AM
i'd heard lots about it when s&p were on the air but i never figured it would be much for whatever reason. i dunno. i'm jaded and a little antisocial and i know it's a fault and it tends to leak out of me at every crack. in person i'm real laughable and fun until someone cracks at me calling me a noob then i wind up in trouble. so i keep to myself. the first thing that popped up at me was the rv and cabin reservation thing. how did rv's get mixed up at bike rallys? don't they outnumber that run up in SD now a days? as far as heat gos, i pull into gas stations and literally soak myself down with a water hose every time i start to get dry. sounds like some of the fellows are having real bad rear end troubles. i don't have any advice for that. actually, i have my seats custom shaped to me by a local hispanic dude. he skins my seat and shapes the foam with a machete and puts it back together when we get it right. that might help.

Brotha J
12-30-2006, 01:20 AM
Wow! Some really good advice! Thanks everyone!

I plan to stay with the Rebel for quite sometime but the addiction of motorcycles has me looking at bikes a lot when I am not on the Rebel. So I am always thinking of the next step even when it is not going to be soon.

Sounds like MOST think I should have an intermediate step before the Big Twin.... interesting. I would have expected that any 500 to 800cc bike is going to be just as "bad" with respect to being heavy as the Big Twin..... I have no frame of reference but I suspect one thing on a bigger bike will be better than the Rebel and that is power. I have to assume that a more powerful bike will be more stable at low speeds where there is not so much load on the underpowered bike by my size??? (6'2", 260lbs) Should be easier to find and hold a throttle position that results in a steady speed??

Also I had not expected the idea that I might try something other than a crusier as a middle step. As I understand crusiers are somewhat harder to ride than say a standard or a dual sport or a sport for that matter. That is why I started with a crusier so that I would learn to be able to handle that bike. If I ride something easier then I may have to go back to learning mode on the big twin if and when I get one...... But I do agree that as a novice there is still a pretty good chance I will have some minor newbie mistakes and I am still not sure I want to subject a big expensive shinny Harley to those.....

Thanks for all the advice!!!!
Mike

Hey mister,
I know I'm getting in on the conversation a little late, but here's my 3 1/2 cents anyhoo:
As a recent graduate of "Newbie" academy I can tell you several things,
1) your first bike will never be you last bike (unless you've got a big ol' garage)
2) you will eventually end up with at least two horses in the stable. So uprgrading to a mid-sized bike ain't a bad idea.
3) I want a HD pretty bad. But they are pricey! So I've decided to have fun riding and getting to know my skills before I'd drop the dough on one (besides, I found that a custom Big Dog or Bourget chopper fit me better than ANY HD I've ever sat upon)
4) GEEK ALERT!!! Not all bikes are PUT TOGETHER the same, HD's included. Center of gravity is affected by how everything is placed. That's why the Big Dog and Bourget fit me better than other customs (including Indian :( Yeah, I know. I was dissapointed too.)
5) The motorcycle world is a huge freaking place. Do as much research as you possibly can. This descision is more significant than getting a car. In a car you don't like at least you have other stuff that makes up for it: CD changer, A/C, comfy bucket seats, ect. But on a bike...
...it's just you and your buttocks baby!
6) Just like marriage. Get what you want! Ain't nothing worse turning over an engine you ain't attracted to no more.

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 10:50 AM
I give up Jack, you are correct. No one should ride cruisers. They suck, the handle slower than racer rockets, and they're not as comfy as tourers. And they are more of a hazard on the roads since they don't handle as quick and cause riders more risk. I think we should ban them all, just like the Isle of Man. We should all be riding either Goldwings, or R1's. Since those are the only two types of motorcycles that "YOU" happen to like. So there, are you happy, if it's not Jack's way then it must be wrong. I give up.

Planorider, good luck on your R1. Don't get a cruiser to "cruise" on, because Jack doesn't like them. After all, that's what matters in the grand scheme of things.;-)

Glad you see things my way. ;-) :clap: Actually, I could GAF what you ride, only said one thing, cruisers don't handle better than sportbikes. Seems obvious to me, but hey, live and learn, eh? I said nothing about no one riding cruisers. If you like the "life style" or just like the relaxed posture on the highway or something, great! Lots of people do, you won't be alone out there.

A small cruiser does have advantages for beginners, sits quite low (usually) to the ground and offeres easy control at a stop or low speeds. Some bikes, like tall DPs or sportbikes with high seat heights are not conducive to easy pushing around the garage or backing out of the parking spot. The novice can get in trouble, especially a short novice. But, I don't think a beginner should be on a 600+ lb cruiser. Start out with a 500 Shadow or something. Lighter is better.

I'd never suggest a newbie start on a sport bike, even an SV, but especially a 600 and up. They're not easy to ride, have too much power up top for a beginner, and too much plastic to destroy when you tip it over in the garage. Cruisers have a newbie friendly power band, lots of torque down low to make clutch slipping less necessary and easier.

For beginners, I say low seat, light weight, and no plastic.

All I said was a long rake/trail numbers are not conducive to good handling. That's all I said, nothing more. I didn't say cruisers were dangerous. I never said cruisers suck, I did say I didn't care for 'em, but hey, if my opinion differs from yours, you're going to make a friggin' war to prove I'm an A hole? You jump in and call me an idiot knee scrapin' squid. Whatever. Stay off the gun boards. Your blood pressure couldn't handle a caliber war.:rofl:

DFW_Warrior
12-30-2006, 11:36 AM
Stay off the gun boards. Your blood pressure couldn't handle a caliber war.:rofl:

.45 for concealed carry. But for a beginner I'd suggest a .40S&W round. Less kick, but still great stopping power.

I just get tired of people (mainly on this site) downing cruisers. They are built for a specific reason, to cruise. And I hate to say it, but there are quite a few people out there that just want to cruise. Trust me, I'm not one of them, but I see where they are coming from. And I just think that comparing a sport bike to a cruiser is an apples to oranges kind of thing. It just doesn't fly.

And I do agree with you on the SV not being a good starter bike. My wife started on a V-Star with engine guards (crash bars) installed. She laid it over in the drive way and not one single scratch got on the bike. We picked it back up and away she went. When she laid her SV down it cost over $400 to fix and I still got lucky because I found most of the parts off of Ebay. It would of cost $1400 if I had to buy all the parts at the dealer.:eek2:

Jack, you're alright even if you are a knee scrapin' squid.......;-)

DFW_Warrior
12-30-2006, 11:45 AM
Here's a couple more of those slow cruisers again.....:trust:

This was us playing on the Dragon in the rain.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/1059/bill05vf4.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bill05vf4.jpg)

And one of a buddy once the rain cleared.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5580/cruise01mq4.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cruise01mq4.jpg)

ben1364
12-30-2006, 12:43 PM
Here's a couple more of those slow cruisers again.....:trust: .

...and I heard that it was impossible to ride the Gap without leaning. I'm wrong again! <BBG>

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 12:46 PM
Yeah, well, here's one of my buddies doin' his thang. He's getting faster. :mrgreen: He's got it on the edge of the tire, here, almost running the rims.

http://imageigloo.com/images/3878PICT0295.JPG

hetkind
12-30-2006, 12:47 PM
I have been riding for going on 25 years, and I have owned cruisers, standards, choppers, touring bikes, dual sports and the bikes tend to ride the most and put the most miles are naked sport bikes, with hard bags.
Also, as the years go on, I am less concerned with style but more concerned with tires, suspension and brakes

As for sidearms, my vote goes to a Ruger Redhawk, wheel gun, 8 and 1/4 barrel in the .44 magnum size, a little bulky, but very accurate with great stopping power.

ben1364
12-30-2006, 12:55 PM
wrote in part, "...He's got it on the edge of the tire, here, almost running the rims.

He's cheating Jack! That bike has an advantage with pegs so high. <BBG>

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 01:01 PM
He's cheating Jack! That bike has an advantage with pegs so high. <BBG>

Yeah, not to mention the radically steep rake/trail numbers.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

bushwhacker
12-30-2006, 01:43 PM
the bikes tend to ride the most and put the most miles are naked sport bikes, with hard bags.
Also, as the years go on, I am less concerned with style but more concerned with tires, suspension and brakes



Me too. (Kinda) My next bike will be either the Multistrada or the new Tiger. Most likely the Tiger.



As for sidearms, my vote goes to a Ruger Redhawk, wheel gun, 8 and 1/4 barrel in the .44 magnum size, a little bulky, but very accurate with great stopping power.



Both a little too big for concealed carry but I am partial to 1911's

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/wfsjr/Image015.jpg

-

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 01:54 PM
OMG, I turned this thread into a gun thread....:doh:


:rofl:

Hey, some 1911 folks would take issue with a Coonan being called a 1911, but I like it. :mrgreen:


Okay, I like revolvers. Here's some pix of two of my blued DAs and two Taurus M66s. The Taurus 66s are a blued 3" and a nickeled 4". The other blued gun is my 4" heavy barrel Smith and Wesson M10.

http://imageigloo.com/images/5699PICT0082.JPG

http://imageigloo.com/images/6325PICT0083.JPG

oldschool
12-30-2006, 02:08 PM
heh heh heh... 6.5" 629 classic w/square pach presentations & 240gr jhp

DFW_Warrior
12-30-2006, 03:16 PM
My personal choice for a carry weapon. Kimber Pro CarryII
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/579/procarry2we2.jpg

I love revolvers, but for us chubbier fellas, semi auto's tend not to bulge as much.

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 03:19 PM
Well, I'm a bit chubby, but most of it hangs over the front rather than loppin' over at 4 O'Clock. :lol2:

I always qualify with my Ruger P90 so I can carry either. I'm fond of carrying a little Kel Tec 9mm in my pocket. It disappears. I hardly ever carry the P90, though, but it's a superb shooter.

DFW_Warrior
12-30-2006, 03:30 PM
I've heard nothing but great things from anyone that's ever shot a Kel-Tec. And the price is a great selling point too. I think that may be my next purchase for a warm weather carry weapon. And yes, I've got a little bit of the 4 o'clock hangover......:mrgreen:

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 03:45 PM
I've heard nothing but great things from anyone that's ever shot a Kel-Tec. And the price is a great selling point too. I think that may be my next purchase for a warm weather carry weapon. And yes, I've got a little bit of the 4 o'clock hangover......:mrgreen:


The trigger has a long DA at about 10 lbs (8.5 on the new ones), very DA revolver like only longer. the new PF9 holds 9 rounds, is single stack and flat, and has a lighter, shorter trigger. I'm quite used to the P11, though, and shoot it quite well. It's very accurate and 100 percent reliable. I've had it about 11 years now and it has eaten over 10K rounds of mostly standard pressure stuff. I carry +P 115 grain stuff in it. I've heard they're a little problematic with 147 grain stuff, but have never tried the stuff. I need to get some of those post ban 12 round magazines, though. Got 3 10 rounders with the gun. The PF9 is the same length and height at the P11, but a about 12/100 inch thinner and 2 ounces lighter. The P11 is only an inch wide, though, and 14 ounces unloaded. It is a very compact gun and a lot more weapon than a .38 special (which I also have) much less a .380 (which I also have). There aren't too many situations when I can't carry this gun either in a pocket or IWB in a Mitch Rosen tuckable holster.

I think every serious CCW holder should have one subcompact 9 in the carry arsenal, either Kel Tec, Kahr, or Rohrbaugh. The Rohrbaugh is even smaller, but is not +P rated and is VERY expensive. The Kel Tec is the bargain of the bunch. Also, the somewhat porkier Taurus PT111 is a good gun from what I've heard. The Glock G26 is just too big and heavy for pocket duties. If I was a Glock guy, having to carry IWB anyway, I'd go G19 or better yet G36 (.45ACP compact single stack). But, I don't care for Glocks too much.

Between a really small .380 like the Kel Tec P3AT, a subcompact 9 of your choice, and the IWB of your choice, all social situations are pretty well taken care of IMHO. I also have a little NAA .22 mini revolver in a holster grip, but I never just carry that for primary. I'd be pretty much unarmed for all intents. But, it's so easy to stash, I always have it for a second or third gun. It fits in a decent sized watch pocket. :lol2:

Now, what the heck all this has to do with a newbie buying a Harley I don't know. I'm sorry I inadvertently changed the subject so radically, Scott. Not that sorry, though, since that's one of the things I love about this site, the willingness by so many to jump in on a gun conversation once it starts. :rofl:

sherob
12-30-2006, 03:58 PM
HD's to guns... hmmm... Steyr M40 here :rofl:

bushwhacker
12-30-2006, 05:01 PM
I've heard nothing but great things from anyone that's ever shot a Kel-Tec.

The trigger has a long DA at about 10 lbs (8.5 on the new ones), very DA revolver like only longer.




I bought a KelTec once about 10 years ago. Owned it a whole month.

Bought it at the Gun Show on Saturday, took it to the range on Sunday and back to the next Gun Show and sold it.

It was the hardest gun to shoot I ever shot. Maybe the pull on the one I got was in ordinately hard but by the third round of "squeezing" the trigger my hand was shaking and I could not hit the broad side of a barn.

I did not like it at all!

Now I do not expect a carry gun to have the same kind of trigger pull as my Gold Cup or my High Standard (2-3 lbs) but that thing was ridiculous.

-

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 08:02 PM
I bought a KelTec once about 10 years ago. Owned it a whole month.

Bought it at the Gun Show on Saturday, took it to the range on Sunday and back to the next Gun Show and sold it.

It was the hardest gun to shoot I ever shot. Maybe the pull on the one I got was in ordinately hard but by the third round of "squeezing" the trigger my hand was shaking and I could not hit the broad side of a barn.

I did not like it at all!

Now I do not expect a carry gun to have the same kind of trigger pull as my Gold Cup or my High Standard (2-3 lbs) but that thing was ridiculous.

-

Revolver shooters have no problems with it. It's DA and DA has to be learned. If you don't shoot DA and aren't willing to learn, I'd say stay away from revolvers and pocket guns and just be happy carrying a 1911 of some kind. I routinely put 100 rounds down range a session out of mine no problem, pick up one of my revolvers and practice with it, too, same session. It's smoother and lighter than my Model 10 Smith which is VERY smooth if not light. Only thing, the stroke is longer. It stages just at the end which helps when shooting groups off the bench, but don't bother me rapid fire.

The bad rap the P11 gets for its trigger is from kids that never fired a revolver DA and don't know how, perhaps guys who don't understand pocket carry, and/or grew up on single action autos or Glocks. I, personally, will not carry a striker fired gun in a pocket other than condition three (guns like the original single action AMT back up) or a single action gun like the mustang pocket light in any, but condition two or three. I much prefer a DAO in a pocket, be it auto or revolver. Although I have no problem with a 1911 condition one in IWB, I don't really think a pocket is the place for condition one carry especially if the gun has no grip safety. DAO is there and ready for action and completely safe to carry in a pocket, either a revolver like the S&W 642 or an auto like the PF9 (much lighter, shorter trigger than the P11), the Kahr PM9, or some such weapon.

Hey, if you think the 8.5 lb Kel Tec trigger is too much, try one of the old AMT DAs. They break more like 16 lbs. :giveup: :lol2: Yet, some folks like 'em because they are safe in a pocket and ready for action without having to cock a hammer or rack a slide. Right before they went out of business, they actually had a pocket sized DAO .45. Pocket size I use loosely because it'd have to be a larger pocket than a Kahr or Kel Tec could fit in and it weighed a ton. I'd rather just carry my Kel Tec or a 642, myself, anyway. I had an AMT hardballer. It worked okay if you fed it hardball, probably why they called it a hardballer. I spend good money on action work, feed ramp polishing and porting, this and that, waste of money. I wasn't willing to go for a Backup after that and the thing was heavy anyway. But, I've talked to guys that have 'em and like 'em.

One thing I like about Kel Tec is their customer service and lifetime no hassle warranty. Dillon precision is the only outfit I know that can rival them. That's comforting to know if I ever need to send my P11 for service. From what I've heard of Taurus customer service, I hope I never have to deal with them. I've heard nightmares. I own three Taurus revolvers, fortunately they all work fine. :mrgreen:

I guess if I couldn't or wouldn't learn to shoot DA, I'd just carry a J frame DA hammer gun. At least you could cock and fire it SA if you couldn't handle the DA trigger. That's a pretty quick way to shoot out of a pocket without using DA. Mastering DA is almost a must for pocket carry IMHO. I'd always carry in a pocket that has NOTHING else in it and use a good pocket holster, too.

Keeping things on topic.....:mrgreen:


http://z.about.com/d/motorcycles/1/0/t/Q/f0489.jpg

The Bruce
12-30-2006, 09:00 PM
.45 for concealed carry. But for a beginner I'd suggest a .40S&W round. Less kick, but still great stopping power.
:clap:
And I hate to say it, but there are quite a few people out there that just want to cruise. Trust me, I'm not one of them, but I see where they are coming from.
I'll admit it. I am one of those that just want to cruise. I enjoy being able to see the scenery as I go cruising by. :rider:

oldschool
12-30-2006, 09:15 PM
Hi Jack. Is that an 83 or 84 Roadster XLS???

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 09:59 PM
'84 I think, but it ain't mine. I just found it for a picture. :lol: I like Sportsters. If I get a Hog, it's PROBABLY going to be a Sportster for a couple of reasons. For one, they're more affordable, but finally they rubber mounted 'em. They're a good all around bike, not pure cruiser, not pure standard. Heck, they're a Sportster. Hard to categorize 'em.

I like the evo Sportster motors, reliable, gutzy, modern 1200s have decent horsepower and gobs of torque, they're flexible like a good standard, lighter than a big Hog, lots of aftermarket to personalize, OHV with hydraulic lifters so no valve maintenance, simple engines and trannies, yadda, yadda, yadda. As an all around street bike, there ain't much out there that can better it. Oh, sure, there are gobs of bikes that have more power, gobs that handle better, gobs that are more comfortable (though with rubber mounts and the aftermarket, that's not a problem, really). The Sportster sort of reminds me of my old VX800, or rather the VX reminded me of a Sportster. Only thing, there's a lot more after market for the Sportster and no 4K valve adjustments and no finicky throttle linkage that requires carb sync every 10K (only one carb). And, highly personal here, but they just look like a classic motorcycle to me. I guess it was "Then Came Bronson" (I was addicted to that show) that turned me on to the Sportster. I never ever bought one, knowing what paint shakers they were. BUT, now with the rubber mounting, weeeeeeellllll......:mrgreen: Not only that, but the things are half way affordable compared to friggin' touring bikes! When I found out I could actually get a trailer hitch for one from Hitch Doctor, I really perked up to the idea. As I get older, I think my antique frame could handle the lighter bike, too, better than an Electra Glide or a RT or a Wing.

I'll probably change my mind a bazillion times before I buy another bike. That day will take a good wait considering my financial condition right now. But, some day, it will happen.

LugNut
12-30-2006, 10:40 PM
Jack,

I had a 2004 Sportster 1200 and it was a great bike, after I got it I realize that it just didn't have enought room for my wife. I had not had a bike in twenty years and when I got the Sportster I didn't think she would ride with me, I was wrong. Now I have the Ultra Classic and we are doing alot of riding together, now that the kids are gone. Guys with the big HD's like to make fun of it, but it is the longest running model of all bikes, it's having it's fifty year anniversary this year. :clap: :clap: :clap: It's no crotch-rocket, but a new air filter and a SuperTrapp 2 into 1 and that bad boy will run.

Jack Giesecke
12-30-2006, 10:51 PM
You're right, if I had a glide, maybe I could get my wife on the back again. But, she don't ride anymore, leg's banged up from an accident. We might make a trip down to Corpus or something, but that'd be about it. No way we're doing any real touring together. So, I figure I'd get the Sporty and take a solo trip or ride with friends somewhere occasionally in my old age, sort of Bronson on Geritol. :lol2:

LugNut
12-30-2006, 11:08 PM
When is the last time you saw an episode of "Then Came Bronson"? I watched in it's first run, but I have not seen it sence then, I bet it would seam lame by today's standards.:doh:

NUTT
12-30-2006, 11:59 PM
When it comes to guns I always remember this old one....

People talk .45, shoot 9mm and carry .38.

Personally, I shoot the heck out of my .22 Ruger Mk II and my 9mm. Although, my newest addition is an XD 40 and I have a .45 1911 on the way. I need to get my CHL done so that I can carry legally.

Once I do I'll probably carry the .40 most of the time. I may have to go to something smaller for a pocket gun though.

http://usera.imagecave.com/NUTT/bang/bang-08.jpg

I'll get some new pics soon and might find an actual gun thread.

Oh yeah, HD's are cool (on topic right?)

DaveC
12-31-2006, 12:22 AM
You could see if Willy G well build one of these (http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2006_Campaigns/XR1200_minisite/XR1200.jsp?locale=en_GB&swfxrdna=1) for you!

Jack Giesecke
12-31-2006, 05:50 AM
When is the last time you saw an episode of "Then Came Bronson"? I watched in it's first run, but I have not seen it sence then, I bet it would seam lame by today's standards.:doh:


Don't remember what channel it was on, but they re-ran the pilot movie some 10 years ago. Haven't seen and episode of the TV series, though, and Michael Parks died, I think, RIP. Nobody seemed to notice the show, but impressionable young kids with Honda 90s. :mrgreen:

PlanoRider
01-01-2007, 07:59 PM
Wow I went camping and you guys had your way with my thread!! LOL:mrgreen:

I am enjoying the crusier vs sport, standard,...... debate but I hope no one thought I was intending to provoke this particular debate.

To clarify, I do understand that I should buy the bike I like. But suggestions like that make me wonder if the person making them as ever sought advice on something before? Should I wander blindly without asking anyone for information? I realize that my questions could be taken as being like asking who's baby is the best looking and therefore worthless. But I have tried to frame the question to get rid of as much of that as I can.

I am seriously considering the suggestions about broadening my options to include Sportsters and even more standard type metrics. I imagine I can find these to rent and it would be fun to ride all the different bikes and much cheaper to rent them than to own them all even one at a time......

But I have lots of time since I will insist on being much better on the Rebel before I replace it even if it is with an intermediate step.

So given that I don't feel competent to ride a rental Harley yet, I was hoping to ask those that have ridden both a softtail(Fatboy etc...) and something like a Road King what they would think are the most significant differences between the two? I know the Road King is a tourer but to me it does not look so much like one since it has no faring(sp?) I think I could take a Fat Boy and put a windshield and hard bags on it and they would look similar. But with the Road King I get all that already standard in addition to engine guards and a cruise control..... But you cannot strip the Road King back down to naked like the Fat Boy by taking all that off. But I like the look of the Road King and several softtails. The whole question is just idle chatter since I will probably ride both as rentals but was curious to hear those that know both to compare and contrast them. I mean they are both really big and heavy so is there really all that much difference between them?

By the way I am not complaining, the only thing I am even close to being as interested in after bikes is guns. I have the KelTec P11 and it is a very good gun for what it is. It is a gun you will carry because it is easy to carry but has more stopping power than comparible guns its size. But I will also agree it is a piece of junk compared to my Colt Gold Cup Trophy. It is not a marksmans weapon it is a self defense lead launcher that is compact and reasonably safe. I have a CHL and if I did carry I would probably carry the Kel Tec.

And to everyone continued thanks for all the advice!!!
Mike

Tx White Knight
01-01-2007, 09:57 PM
If you are interested in renting different bikes there is a place in Grapevine area that rents different ones, they are not related to a dealer. They were going to open a store front in South Lake but the city shot that down so they are looking else where. I know a lady that rented I belive a ST from them and was happy with their service.

If you want more info I will dig it out for you.

Squidward
01-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Also, as the years go on, I am less concerned with style but more concerned with tires, suspension and brakes

As for sidearms, my vote goes to a Ruger Redhawk, wheel gun, 8 and 1/4 barrel in the .44 magnum size, a little bulky, but very accurate with great stopping power.
1st point....so you'd like a ZXR250 or ZXR400 from Japan....

2nd point....way too large of a weapon for convenient and legal concealed carry unless you are of the big fat butt persuasion.

Squidward
01-01-2007, 10:08 PM
I think every serious CCW holder should have one subcompact 9 in the carry arsenal, either Kel Tec, Kahr, or Rohrbaugh. The Rohrbaugh is even smaller, but is not +P rated and is VERY expensive. The Kel Tec is the bargain of the bunch. Also, the somewhat porkier Taurus PT111 is a good gun from what I've heard. The Glock G26 is just too big and heavy for pocket duties. If I was a Glock guy, having to carry IWB anyway, I'd go G19 or better yet G36 (.45ACP compact single stack). But, I don't care for Glocks too much.


Why a 9 other than for plinking duties? I don't much care for punching a few holes through some jerk loaded up on crank just to have him keep coming at me. Make mine .40 minimum....I at least want to knock him down to gain some time. Preferable loads for me? .45acp or .357 sig. Both available in concealable sized weapons with good knockdown and a nice spreading HP.

DANNYROTH
01-01-2007, 10:09 PM
Some Harley dealers are also set up to rent. See this site:
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/content/pages/rentals_and_tours/rent_a_harley.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US&HDCWPSession=YZxZFZMZnQ01KQMrGnwSw1lNScBnlpn8ynC5M q9DLFyxsr4TWZTy!1461113534!-476567670

I didn't follow this thread faithfully, but, in a quick scan of the postings, did not see even one mention of the fact that a trailer is a must-have with this decision.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/dannyroth/AMT45BU.jpg
.45 ACP

Squidward
01-01-2007, 10:14 PM
I didn't follow this thread faithfully, but, in a quick scan of the postings, did not see even one mention of the fact that a trailer is a must-have with this decision.
That's possibly because it's an antiquated ignorant statement....

Tourmeister
01-01-2007, 11:00 PM
That's possibly because it's an antiquated ignorant statement....

?? This had better be a joke... :shame:

Squidward
01-02-2007, 08:28 AM
?? This had better be a joke... :shame:
Perhaps I misread his post, but it seems as if he was stating that a trailer is a must if one is buying a Harley. I took it as yet another H-D bashing comment and find it irritating. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.

swallack
01-02-2007, 08:31 AM
Even if you added stuff to a FatBoy, it's still not the same as a Road King. The Road King & other Harley touring bikes are built on a touring frame where as the FatBoy is not (other than knowing it has a higher clearance, I don't know all the diffs). I put a Mustang touring seat w/rider backrest & highway pegs on my Heritage and it does fine for me on longer rides. The passenger floorboards help my wife stay comfy when she opts to ride with me instead of on her Shadow. Obviously it's not the same as an Ultra Classic with the fairing, lowers, cruise control, locking hard saddle bags / tour pak, wrap around passenger backrest, & built in intercomm / radio system, but it works for me.

Best thing you can do is figure out what type of riding you want to do, determine what bikes will suit that style of riding, then go try them & decide what you like that fits your budget. These days, most all of the bikes (Harley included) are quite reliable, so look for functionality & cost.

So given that I don't feel competent to ride a rental Harley yet, I was hoping to ask those that have ridden both a softtail(Fatboy etc...) and something like a Road King what they would think are the most significant differences between the two? I know the Road King is a tourer but to me it does not look so much like one since it has no faring(sp?) I think I could take a Fat Boy and put a windshield and hard bags on it and they would look similar. But with the Road King I get all that already standard in addition to engine guards and a cruise control..... But you cannot strip the Road King back down to naked like the Fat Boy by taking all that off. But I like the look of the Road King and several softtails. The whole question is just idle chatter since I will probably ride both as rentals but was curious to hear those that know both to compare and contrast them. I mean they are both really big and heavy so is there really all that much difference between them?

And to everyone continued thanks for all the advice!!!
Mike

swallack
01-02-2007, 08:36 AM
Perhaps I misread his post, but it seems as if he was stating that a trailer is a must if one is buying a Harley.

That's exactly how his post reads.

hetkind
01-02-2007, 08:52 AM
funny you should mention trailers...when I rode a sportster, a trailer was a must, even after a frame off restoration, the thing would break in bizarre ways. Now, the only time a bike goes on a trailer here is when 1) we need to make time to our jumping off point, say with a dual sport machines, also to save tires for the dirt, 2) when we are providing food service to a rally and can't feed 50 folks out of our saddlebags 3) buying or selling a machine, and 4) helping another rider with a failed machine.

We have put a bike on a trailer ONCE this year and we were providing food service for 50 at the Texas National Airhead Rally. Towed the trailer with a 62 Dodge Town Wagon.

However, did you see the recent column in MCN where they talked about BMW, Goldwing and HD rallies? most of the HD either trailered in or their wife followed in a SUV and didn't tent, BMW rode in and tented, Goldwings rode in and motelled...

And don't most HD dealerships sell trailers also?

now if you think this post is HD bashing, why don't you send me a private message and explain why...

Howard

ben1364
01-02-2007, 09:33 AM
...<snip>Best thing you can do is figure out what type of riding you want to do, determine what bikes will suit that style of riding, then go try them & decide what you like that fits your budget. These days, most all of the bikes (Harley included) are quite reliable, so look for functionality & cost.

Swallack said it all. Great post. In the tradition of winter, let's close this thread and move on to which oil and which tire is the best. <BBG>

sprinter
01-02-2007, 12:15 PM
My daughter went from a 125cc in the MSF class to an 1800cc cruiser and now she is a MSF instructor. Keep the handlebars square and they all weigh the same. One of the posts suggested a lot of practice. I second that. The skills you learn are perishable and you must practice all the time. Work in parking lots, back streets and look out for everything.