Texas House OKs bill for speeding tax

[John Bennett]

Bill calls for fines that pay for roads
House OKs measure to create system of added traffic penalties
By Dave Harmon

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Saturday, May 10, 2003

The state House of Representatives approved a massive transportation bill Friday that would raise money for highways by tacking $30 onto speeding tickets and hitting repeat traffic offenders with state fines on top of local fines they already pay.

House Bill 3588 is designed to generate money for state highways and clear legal obstacles for Gov. Rick Perry's Trans Texas Corridors plan -- a combination of highways, toll roads, utility lines and rail that would crisscross the state.

To help do so, the bill also contains a new system of fines -- Republicans called them surcharges, Democrats called them taxes -- for Texans who are caught speeding or have multiple traffic convictions.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Mike Krusee, R-Round Rock, said it would raise hundreds of millions of dollars a year for highway projects and state trauma centers, which treat thousands of traffic-related injuries each year.

The speeding provision would add a $30 state charge to the standard fine collected by a city or county. Krusee estimated that would mean $100 million for highway projects and $50 million to $60 million a year for trauma centers.

Under a new "driver responsibility program," the state would assign points to various traffic violations and charge drivers from $100 to more than $2,000 a year, depending on the number and severity of the violations -- on top of any fines imposed by local courts.

Rep. Dianne White Delisi, R-Temple, said the penalties are a good idea because they raise money and will help deter dangerous driving on Texas highways. Texas ranks first among large states in speeding-related fatalities, she said, and first in alcohol-related fatalities.

Each year, the Department of Public Safety would check every driver's traffic record for the previous three years and assign two points for moving violations and three points for moving violations that resulted in collisions.

The state would not count points for no-contest pleas, which are typical for drivers who take defensive driving courses to get a ticket taken off their record.

Drivers also would not receive points for not fastening their seat belts or for speeding if the speed was within 10 percent of the posted limit -- not counting school zones.

The department would fine drivers $100 each year if they accumulated six points and $25 for each additional point.

The state would suspend the license of anyone who didn't pay the penalty.

The bill also sets up a separate list of penalties for certain violations.

Drunken drivers would have to pay the state $1,000 for a first conviction, $1,500 for a second conviction and $2,000 for any conviction in which the driver's blood alcohol level was .16 or higher -- double the legal level of .08. That's on top of any fines imposed by a court. DWI convictions also would count for points against a driver.

Driving with an invalid license or without proof of financial responsibility would mean a $250 penalty, while driving without a license would cost $100.

Krusee said the penalties would eventually raise $300 million a year that would be split between trauma centers and highway projects.

Democrats blasted the provision, calling it a hidden tax.

"We're really voting for a tax, isn't that true?" said Rep. Senfronia Thompson, D-Houston, who pointed out that drunken drivers already can be fined up to $2,000 for a first conviction. "What we're saying is that we're going to tax those people."

Delisi said, "It is a penalty on that behavior. If you obey the law, you don't pay one penny into this fund."

The massive road project funded in part by the fines would start with four routes connecting Dallas, Houston, El Paso and the Rio Grande Valley and linking the planned Texas 130 in Central Texas.

The corridors would stretch 4,000 miles and cost $145 billion to $184 billion. There is no timetable for construction.

Krusee called the bill "the most comprehensive and visionary transportation bill in the history of the state of Texas."

An amendment added to the bill by Rep. Miguel Wise, D-Weslaco, would allow government-issued identification from Mexico and other countries to be used to obtain a Texas drivers license.

Another amendment by Reps. Jack Stick, R-Austin, and Glenn Hegar Jr., R-Katy, would require that Texas driver's licenses bear the owner's country of citizenship on the back and a symbol or code indicating citizenship on the front. Stick called it an anti-terrorism provision that would help the state confirm a person's country of origin before issuing a license.

Other amendments would increase the penalty for passing a school bus and causing an injury and raise the fee for billboard permits from $9 to $20.

from: http://www.statesman.com/asection/content/auto/epaper
/editions/saturday/news_3.html

[edited to break long hyeprlink]

[VFRinAustin]

I guess that all in all, I agree with this bill, but lets get things straight, it is a Tax. If the State starts to call it a fine, isn't it then punishing people twice or more for the same infraction. I think this is double jeapordy and against the law.

I am all for things that would hopefully (this being the operative word) make people more consciencious drivers and heaven knows we need to fix our existing roads. Short of Boston, I have never seen such poor, uncoscious, inconsiderate driving anywhere else. Maybe this will do some good.

Ok, rant over, fire away. :shooter:

[leeroy]

Looks like a tax. Smells like a tax. I do not need no stinking taxes

[brd]

Bill calls for fines that pay for roads
House OKs measure to create system of added traffic penalties
By Dave Harmon

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Saturday, May 10, 2003

The state House of Representatives approved a massive transportation bill Friday that would raise money for highways by tacking $30 onto speeding tickets and hitting repeat traffic offenders with state fines on top of local fines they already pay.

House Bill 3588 is designed to generate money for state highways and clear legal obstacles for Gov. Rick Perry's Trans Texas Corridors plan -- a combination of highways, toll roads, utility lines and rail that would crisscross the state.


Ugh. Not a "points" system! This pisses me off on so many levels. :angryfir:

[scratch]

Citations and tickets are already so outrageously expensive that they are almost confiscatory for a lot of people who are on a tight budget. The legions of unlicenced, un-insured motorists will only grow larger as the fines continue to increase.

And yes, this is just a tax in drag. Expect to see a lot of similar schemes being proposed to raise money by the state and cities as their budget problems get worse. Belt tightening on their part doesn't seem to be an option.

:angryfir:

[John Bennett]

I have several problems with the new tax.

Selective Enforcment: Motorcyclists are unfairly targeted for enforcement. This opinion is based on my personal experience and the experience of the hundreds of people who come to my defensive driving classes.

Motorcyclists have a negative image in the minds of both the public and law enforcement community. Be they "nasty bikers" or "crotch-rocket punks", motorcyclists are MUCH more likely to get ticketed for speeding or the occasional questionable red light/stop sign.

Revenue not Safety: I've tried to find data showing that increased penalties for speeding reduce speeding. I can't. All the data I see shows that drivers drive as fast as they feel comfortable. Bikes can drive faster, safer than cars. Tractor Trailers can't. Yet, why do we have the same speed limit for a 400 lb. bike as for an 18,000 lb. log truck?

Local governments use traffic violation revenues to pay the salaries of local cops, judges and their administrative people. They care very little whether traffic laws increase safety and much more that they generate revenue.

Look at the table of DPS statistics below. It shows that MANY more accidents in Texas are caused NOT by exceeding the speed limit, but by driving too fast for conditions, failure to yield Right-of-Way, tailgating, DWI, and running signals, things that result in fender-benders for autos and a permanent dirt nap for motorcyclists.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control
/accident_records/mvta1999/40.pdf

Yet, where does the vast majority of revenue come from? Speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding, speeding. It is a rare thing to have someone attend my Defensive Driving classes for anything other than speeding violations.

It's a vicious cycle. More revenue pays for more judicial beauracracy that demands more revenue.

I won't even go into how article 17 of HB3588 helps terrorists and encourages illegal immigration by giving criminals identity documents. Go here to read more about that...

http://www.fairus.org/html/04193072.htm

To me, this bill will make that situation worse and do little to make the roads I ride safer.

The bill is currently in a senate committee. I called my state senator about it. Let's just hope it gets modified or voted down.

John Bennett

[Tourmeister]

The bill is currently in a senate committee. I called my state senator about it.

Do you have a place we can go to get that info for all the rest of us? Maybe a list of the State emails so we can barrage them with letters.

Interesting that I've seen no mention of this in the media?! Surely this is newsworthy and all Texans would like to know about it!?

[10-95]

JB,

I would take issue with a lot of what you posted.

As far as motorcyclists being "unfairly" targeted, I do not agree. I bet if you did a little research and took into account the number of m/c riders vs the number of cage drivers you'd see there is no disparity there. I don't buy the whole negative image thing. That's a crock.

I do agree that stiffer fines won't reduce speeding violations. Folks will continue to do whatever they want to and continue to pay up.

On to the logging truck point ----- The whole reason speeds are set the way they are is simple .......... it's set by the Fed Govt. Not directly due to the whole "states rights" thing, but indirectly, like witholding state grant/road/whatever money until that state adopts the federal standard. You also have to remember that besides commercial vehicles (which have a different set of rules and standards set by the fed) speed limits have to be uniform. You may be able to handle a m/c at high speeds, but somebody else might not. You also have to share the road with everybody else. The feds base speeds on the "85th percentile rule".

Traffic violation revenues ........ This one is a common, but erroneous belief. The majority of the fines collected go directly to the state, which in turn puts it in their general revenue fund. The city/county/whoever that gets the remaining portion (which isn't much)also puts it in the general fund. The $$$ is just as likely to be used for sewer repairs as anything else. At the state level a good portion goes into your roads. State statute governs how much of a city/county budget can be from traffic.

I checked out the link you provided to the DPS website. Suffice to say that most of the contributing factors on an ST-3 (State of Texas motor vehicle accident form) are related in some way to speeding. Whether you agree or not, speed is still the #1 contributing factor in crashes.

Do you teach DDC as an independent or for a govt agency? I teach it for the city I work for. I found it funny that your students were there for speeding and it was rare they were there for any other reason. Aside from the 3 year requirement for our city insurance a good portion of my students have been from accidents.

I hope you don't take offense at my post, but I hear this daily being in traffic enforcement. Everything from being a Nazi to having a quota to just being a taxman for the city. Most folks are amazed at what actually happens to the "revenue" generated by tickets, why enforcement is done the way it is, where enforcement is done,etc. My recommendation to people that want the truth is to ask the people that deal with it on a daily basis and not to depend on rumor or internet content.

[John Bennett]

> "As far as motorcyclists being "unfairly" targeted, I do not agree. I bet if you did a little research and took into account the number of m/c riders vs the number of cage drivers you'd see there is no disparity there."

I've tried to find data on stops by vehicle type. I can't find it.
TDPS publishes data on stops by driver "race" (whatever that is), but not vehicle type. I bet they have the data by vehicle type, but one would have to purchase it.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration
/driver_licensing_control/arb.htm

Thus, my opinion that motorcyclist are targeted for stricter enforcement is based on my personal experience and the experiences of people I meet. Not scientific, but I do believe the disparity exists. I drive exactly the same in my ugly little Mazda truck as I do on my bike. I get ticketed on the bike and not in the truck.


> "...speed limits have to be uniform. "

I say they don't. Note how there are different speeds for different vehicle types on I-20. Of course higher limits for motorcycles would never fly politically, but the enforcers should realize that speeding motorcyclists are more dangerous to themselves than anyone else. A speeding log truck is a danger to everyone on the road.


> The feds base speeds on the "85th percentile rule".

But that's just my point. Most speed zones DO NOT use the 85th percentile rule. Most speed zones are arbitrarily set much lower by local bureacrats and politicians.

These are the places are where you find speed traps. The cops know the limits are set ridiculously low in those areas, so low in fact that reasonable and prudent drivers will consistently disregard them.


> "The majority of the fines collected go directly to the state"

Regardless of how the monies are shared, they are a very significant source of revenue for local governments.

Remember the law passed several years ago limiting the amount a local government could keep?

Some cities like Splendora were getting almost 100% of their money from traffic fines. I think the amout is now limited to 40% of their general revenue, but it's still enough to result in enforcement for the sake of revenue generation more than for safety.


> "...Whether you agree or not, speed is still the #1 contributing factor in crashes."

Look at the data again. It's ordered like this...

1. speed unsafe for conditions (ie. unaffected by limits or enforcement)
2. failure to yeild ROW
3. DUI
4. tailgating
5. disregard stop & go signal
6. speeding over limit

Of course speeding is related to crashes. My point is that speed limits do not have an effect on safety that warrants the speed traps and unreasonably low limits that we are forced to endure. They serve more to generate revenue than create safe roads.


> "Do you teach DDC as an independent or for a govt agency?"

Like you, I teach for a government agency. Most of my participants are there for employment purposes, but I also do a lot of ticket dismissals. It's rare for me to do a ticket dismissal for anything other than speeding violations. During the group discussion excercises almost everyone's most recent citation was for speeding.


> "I hope you don't take offense at my post, but I hear this daily being in traffic enforcement."

None at all!!! :-D I hope we can get together sometime on a ride and discuss this stuff in detail.

95% of our cops do a fair and honest job. I defend them vigorously in my DD classes against the ludricrous charges my dumb-*** participants often make (you know them). I take issue with the system we've developed which doesn't encourage safety and (I believe) unfairly targets motorcyclists.

[Tourmeister]

The feds base speeds on the "85th percentile rule".

:tab This may be the stated policy, but I don't think the speed limits posted are literally the speed that 85% of the people drive for any given road. If this were true, the speed limit on I-45 between Houston and DFW would be in the neighborhood of 85-90mph. The car actually going 70mph is a safety hazzard because it will back up traffic for miles and result in a LOT of pissed of drivers that start doing stupid stuff because they get frustrated.

:tab The same thing is true on a lot of the FM's in Texas. There are the occasional old folk cruising at 55mph or so, but the vast majority of the time, the traffic I see is doing at least 75-80mph unless the road is just really rough and twisty. I do think the speed are set artificially low in practice regardless of what "data" the Feds or anyone else has to support their stated "85th percentile" speed.

:tab I think my biggest issue with the whole speeding thing is that everyone has their moments where they may think they are being totally legit, fully intending to be obeying even the ridiculously low posted speed, but they miss a sign or something and then get busted. Buda, Texas is known for this. Their signs seem to be placed in very easy to miss spots.

:tab I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, and I don't think Police chiefs sit around trying to figure out ways to bust speeders to line their coffers. However, it is still frustrating when you get a ticket despite your best efforts to obey the posted limit. Now if I am busting on some backroads and get stopped, that's different. I'll pay if I play (or take a DDC :-P )

:tab I think I am leaning towards the disparity thing with John based on my personal experience. I have been on the tail end of a large group of cars, all of them pulling away from me, me in the right lane just cruising and not going all out, and I get busted!!?? However, I was actually speeding so I can't claim innocence. Nonetheless, it sure seems like the officer was happy to let everyone else blow right by and then decided to stop me. That is total B.S.

:tab If the law is going to be enforced, it should be ENFORCED. If it really is a safety issue, then EVERY vehicle should have a governor and there should be excessively heavy fines for tampering with it. Or simply monitor the traffic flow and EVERY time the average speed starts creeping up, stop every single vehicle that speeds and give them a ticket. This is pretty much what Montgomery, Tx., does and people know it so very few people speed there.

:tab One of the Constitutional principles is equal application of the law to all peoples of this country. Traffic enforcement does not seem to follow this very well. I am not saying all cops are thugs in uniform. They have a very difficult job because of what they are trying to do and in having to deal with people's attitudes toward them. I simply cannot believe that the only thing that influences the officer's decision to stop a vehicle is the radar readout. There may be some officers where this is true, but I think they are the minority.

[10-95]

The 85th % rule I was referring to is applied on state highways, rural roads and city streets. The speed limit on interstates are set by the Fed at 65-75. Believe it or not municipalities follow this guideline very closely and are audited. No comply ....... no grant money.

How traffic control devices (signs,lights,etc) are placed, why they are placed and where they are placed is actually VERY interesting. I never imagined there were so many rules. There is even Fed guidelines on where you can place "No Parking" signs on city streets.

If someone has questions on "WHY?" I would highly suggest they contact their transportation dept in the city they live or their district office for TxDOT. The info is public information. You'll walk away with some very interesting topics for conversation.

As for the "disparity" for bikes I still don't see it. I have ridden in some of the most back-water places in the country, all on my Tornado Red ST, my Lucifer Orange RS or on countless *** Hondas. Full face helmets, flashy jackets, studded gloves and all. Never been stopped on the bikes. I have been stopped in a car however. Also have spoken to almost every LEO I know about the subject and everyone is the same:

Almost every jurisdiction has trouble with groups of bikers, whether they be rice-racer boys, outlaw 1%'ers or wanna-bes. They are all handled the same. Screw up and we hammer them. Period. But that does NOT extend to everyone. You have to do something to get "personal attention". Any other behavior should not be tolerated and if you feel you have been mistreated you should see a supervisor. No one in LE wants a bad rep from some turdhead with an attitude.

[buck000]

So far, in my miniscule riding lifetime, I've been pulled over one time, in Fredericksburg, because of my headlight modulators. I was extremely polite, and explained to the officer the Federal statute allowing such modulation. I had the blurb from a web site on me, but couldn't find it while I talking to him (many pockets on the riding suit :) ). The quite friendly officer let me go on my way.

He was kind of on the lookout for sporty bikes anyway, but only because some sportbike rider was busted doing 110 or so in a 70 the night before, in the rain.

[brd]

He was kind of on the lookout for sporty bikes anyway, but only because some sportbike rider was busted doing 110 or so in a 70 the night before, in the rain.

I got pulled over in NM last year for doing 57 in a 45, on a straightaway with open fields on both sides. I'd been a good boy through the wooded area, too, and just happened to wick it up a little as the officer came over the hill. The guy read me the riot act and lectured me for 10 mins. I wondered why the big deal and getting annoyed, but responding with the correct nods, yessirs, and nosirs. Still, I wished if he was going to cite me, to get on with it.

Turns out there had been a hardley rider killed the weekend before going through the curves up ahead when he hit A BEAR in the road. It was getting toward dusk and I was riding into the sun.

I guess the trooper just didn't feel like cleaning up another splatted biker of the road. He let me off with a warning and told me to slow it down.

As others have said, they're not all out there to hassle bikers for no reason. I think this guy genuinely was concerned that no one else on 2 wheels get killed in his jurisdiction.

(I did see a deer shortly after that, so maybe I owe that trooper one)

[scratch]

...I never imagined there were so many rules. There is even Fed guidelines on where you can place "No Parking" signs on city streets.



AH HA!!!

So, you're admitting that these are all rules devised by those dastardly federal bureaucrats! :mrgreen: :wink:

Honestly, this is the best discussion about speeding laws and enforcement I've seen in a while. I still have to think there's too much influence on such laws due to their being a conveniant method of increasing revenue, and not enough about safety. That's not a knock on what you do in your job, 10-95, just the way it looks from here. I take your word that you don't go looking for ticket-writing opportunities with that in mind, and that your commanding officers don't instruct you to do it either. But the fact is, a rising tide raises all boats where such fines are concerned, even if a municipality does nothing else at all to try to take advantage of the situation. I doubt that our state legislators heard very many protests about this new fine scheme coming from lobbyists working for the cities and counties.

On the question of MC riders being targeted, my experience has been pretty much the same in all situations regardless of vehicle type. I've gotten breaks that I didn't necessarily deserve and had the book thrown at me on a few occasions too; all without any noticeable correlation to the type of vehicle I was piloting when pulled over. The biggest variable has always seemed to be the individual officer's level of tolerance and generosity, and I'll admit being on the positive side of that ledger.

[10-95]

I got pulled over in NM last year for doing 57 in a 45, on a straightaway with open fields on both sides.

AHHHHHHHHHHH, New Mexico. If you ever take the stretch of 87 from Texline,TX to Raton Pass, NM beware any planes overhead. They practice VASCAR there and will nail you down the road. :lol: Just remember to check those white lines on the road or even the spacing on the utility poles. :shock:

Better yet, do the limit and let the A-hole from DFW on their way to Vail Co pass you and take the heat!!!!!

[brd]

I got pulled over in NM last year for doing 57 in a 45, on a straightaway with open fields on both sides.

AHHHHHHHHHHH, New Mexico. If you ever take the stretch of 87 from Texline,TX to Raton Pass, NM beware any planes overhead. They practice VASCAR there and will nail you down the road. :lol: Just remember to check those white lines on the road or even the spacing on the utility poles. :shock:

Yeah, they're sneaky. (yet another story) The next day on my trip I was going through some god-forsaken wasteland N of Taos. Middle of the desert, and a 55mph speed limit. (the dumb 55 and 60mph stuff on their backroads negates the 75mph interestates, IMHO :angryfir: At least TX is 70 pretty much everywhere)

Anyway, I'm toodling, and then a car passes me and the guy in front of me, so I engage tractor beam. :) Not even half a mile later as I'm doing 70, I look back and see a cop so close to my tail that he's in both my mirrors. :eek:

I dialed it down to the limit and he sat back there for 8 miles (nowhere to turn off) to the next town where I stopped at the gas station and he cruised on.

To this day, I have no idea where he came from. Must have been hiding behind a tumbleweed.