Helmet Use

[jmsrbrt]

Nothing scientific...just for my curiousity.

[VFRinAustin]

Because my wife likes my cranium the way it is. (As do I)

[jmsrbrt]

Kind of side stepped the question, huh? :-)

Just an FYI, but according to NHTSA data, you have a 50-50 chance of dying or being injured, with, or without helmet use. Head injuries may be less severe at high speed crashes, but neck injuries go up. The poll was meant to see how many of us 'wear' because we're TOLD too, and how many 'wear' because it's only our decision to do so.

Congratulations on the new baby by the way. I've got a new grandbaby, born October 27th....my fourth.

[Kidder]

I had a crash at 100 MPH at Texas World Speedway. My head did hit the ground and the helmet did its job. My neck was not injured nor did it ever hurt. That neck injury thing seems bogus to me. I know there's some guy touting that helmets are more dangerous to wear than not because of the weight of the helmet and the amount of force it can generate due to its weight. Bull. How many HIGH SPEED get offs do you see on race tracks? Quite a few. And how many do you see with neck injuries? Hardly any. The majority are injuries to their extremeties.

Trust me, helmets save lives. Those that think otherwise are just plain stupid.

[VFRinAustin]

Kind of side stepped the question, huh? :-)

not really, just expanding on my explanation. I have and always will wear a helmet regardless of the law. And actually, from all the comprehensive test I have ever read, it has never been shown that neck injuries do go up appretiably because of wearing a helmet. This seems to be mostly put out there by the anti-helmet law crowd.

BTW: I am not in favor of helmet laws either. People have all the right to not be told how to ride, regardless of how dumb I might think it is. But thats another poll all together isnt it.

[bluedogok]

"Figures" don't mean crap, you can extrapolate numbers out in any argument to make them say what you want to. You probably do have a 50-50 chance of dying from bodily inhuries, but I can also find numbers that support a "finding" that the cance for a fatality OR living in a vegetative state goes up greatly when you don't wear a helmet. You use the numbers that support your case and ignore those that don't.

I wear my helmet all the time, even when I was younger I wore it probably 95% of the time. The only time that I don't is a trip around the block after I have been working on something. I don't understand how people can ride without them anymore, when I was younger the wind and noise didn't seem to phase me, now that I am a little older it bothers me and I feel much more comfortable with it on. Maybe I am just more sensitive than I used to be.

The sad thing is that it is almost entirely the cruiser community that makes an issue out of not wearing helmets. Most other riders wear a helmet, from the ST'ers to the Wingers to the squids and stuntas. I have known cruiser riders who say "I don't go fast enough or ride crazy enough to have to wear a helmet". Head injuries can occur even when not riding, there was a person on STN whose wife died (she was around 30 y.o.) when she lost her balance unloading the minivan and hit her head on the curb. It is sad when an "image" or "style" dictates what you should wear.

Most of the time in a crash you are not going to be able to control the movement of your head because of its mass, with OR without a helmet. The helmet actually limits some neck trauma because your head cannot snap as violently from side to side. Neck injuries are probably greater using those stupid little half helmets because it creates more area for a helmet to catch on than a properly fitted full-face helmets or open-face helmets (I guess they call them 3/4 helmets now). The edges are more exposed on the half helmet to grab onto the pavemet or something else and do not have the ability to restrict a more violent neck snap. If you are going to wear a helmet do it right or don't do it at all. A half or novelty helmet is about the same as not wearing one at all.

I have also heard from the no-helmet contingent that a "helmet can cause you to break your collarbone". I broke my collarbone 4 years ago playing softball, the first broken bone since I was 7 years old. I would much rather have a broken collarbone than a cracked open skull. At least with the collarbone I was back playing softball 4 weeks later, albeit with a little more caution.

That said, I do believe in choice. I just choose to wear mine.

[brd]

Begin countdown to thread lockage...

[kawgrl]

It's the smart thing to do. I only have a few days worth of riding experience on my own bike but have been riding on the back of my boyfriends bike for the last year. I always wear a helmet, even if we are only going down the block. I've heard too many stories and have seen too many reports about people not wearing helmets. And people here in College Station dont pay attention to cars much less motorccyles.

[jmsrbrt]

Wear a helmet if you want to. It's your choice, but to answer previous posters' questions, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration compiles data and publishes it every year. Whether you've survived a 100 mph crash or not, seen someone die/live with/without or not, STATISTICALLY neck injuries rise if you're not killed outright. It's not propganda put out by the anti-helmet crowd. It's just facts. We all know "someone" who lived without a helmet, or died with one on. Bottom line is, know all of the pros and cons, and decide for yourself if the benefits outweigh the risks. Whether it be a helmet, seat belt, or skiing down that steep slope at Vail.

[pdef]

I ride naked because just like helmets and safety gear, clothes add deadly mass to my body and if I get into an accident I don't want my pants to break my leg.

[Kidder]

Wear a helmet if you want to. It's your choice, but to answer previous posters' questions, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration compiles data and publishes it every year. Whether you've survived a 100 mph crash or not, seen someone die/live with/without or not, STATISTICALLY neck injuries rise if you're not killed outright. It's not propganda put out by the anti-helmet crowd. It's just facts. We all know "someone" who lived without a helmet, or died with one on. Bottom line is, know all of the pros and cons, and decide for yourself if the benefits outweigh the risks. Whether it be a helmet, seat belt, or skiing down that steep slope at Vail.

I personally do not know anyone who was killed on a motorcycle while wearing a helmet. Let's face it, if your melon hits the pavement at 55 and you're not wearing a helmet your chances of dying are extremely high. I wonder how many of these people can say that they died from a neck injury? It doesn't matter because they're dead. I agree that it is a person's decision to wear a helmet or not. However, statistics don't keep people alive, helmets do. I wonder how many people who suffered a neck injury while wearing a helmet wish that they had NOT been wearing one?

Oh, and jmsbrt, I'd like to see that study by the NHTSA if you can dig it up. Because, I did a search on "motorcycle, helmet, neck, injury" on NHSTA.com and this was the first search item that came up: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/safebike/myths.html

[kurt]

Most helmeted riders who die, die because of some combination of internal injuries (multi-systems trauma). Most likely of these are transected aorta, ruptured spleen, or lacerated liver. These are all deceleration injuries from a sudden stop or impact. In the second tier of injuries are, hemo/pneumothorax (collapsed lungs) abdominal or thoracic arterial tear, ruptured diaphram, and cardiac tamponade.

Most unhelmeted riders die at lower speeds from open head injuries. Take a watermelon, drop it on the ground, observe the results. Interpolate to your head without a helmet. If you wish to ride without a helmet, I fully support your decision, it just differs from mine.

Neck injuries happen far less than people would have you believe.

[Tchuck]

I have rode enough years to see the helmet law come, go, come and finally go again. I have always rode with a helmet and for the past 25 with a full face. Its as natural as putting on a seat belt which I wore long before that law. I have never understood why there is a law requiring seat belt use but not a helmet on a motorcycle. One of these laws is wrong.

[Tourmeister]

Thanks Txmedic, that was a well stated and yet unemotional response ;-) I imagine you have worked your fair share of motorcycle related accidents?

I have a Doctor friend that once took me out to some place near San Marcos. Tangram or someting? Anyway, it was a place for people to live that could not take care of themselves. The majority of people there were just shy of being vegetables. Most were from closed head injuries (blunt trauma) and many were motorcycle and auto accident victims. That visit was very sobering.

I don't know if we can ever fully take into account all the numerous variables that might come into play in an accident and definitively state that helmets do or do not help increase the odds of survival. I knew one rider that died from head trauma while wearing his full face helmet. His head hit the tree stump at about 50 mph. There weren't many other injuries to speak of. I have no doubt that there are many non-helmet wearing riders that have survived accidents. I have to wonder how many of them involved any kind of head impact? I have personally seen numerous non-helmet riders with rashed faces that lived. That seems sad to me, but perhaps if they had been wearing a helmet, they would have been dead?

There are always going to be exceptions to the general rule. Here, I believe the general rule is that in most cases, but not neceessarily ALL, a helmet will greatly reduce the risk of head trauma. This does not mean the rider may not die. Like Kurt said, it is usually those other internal injuries from decelerating that kill. Decelerating from 60mph can obviously kill. I would suspect that even moderate speeds like 30mph are enough. I am quite sure most riders, helmetless or not, ride at those speeds and faster. So maybe the helmet is not the big issue :shrug:

For me, it is not about the wreck so much as it is about preventing potential wrecks. I cannot tell you how many times crap has hit my face shield and had I not been wearing the helmet, it could have ended with a nasty accident. This is a special concern here in East Texas where some of the bugs are large enough to carry away small pets and children! Sure, a huge windscreen will help in this regard. I just feel better with the helmet.

Like many others have said, I support the right to not wear a helmet regardless of the statistics.

Adios,

[treybrad]

Even if you want to rule out dying.. you're a lot better off wearing a helmet.. a REAL, full face helmet. I low sided on my old bike a few years ago and I can tell from the scratches on my helmet that my face would be all mangled up if I hadn't had it on. I probably wouldn't have died, but I would've looked like ****... and I didn't need anything like a messed up face to add to the fun of having broken vertebrae.

I wear mine everytime I ride, no matter how short. If I leave my parking spot, it's on my head.

trey

[jmsrbrt]

Well first of all, let me say I worded my question wrong. It was meant to see how many would wear a helmet only because it’s the law, and how many feel that to wear, or not to wear, should be an individual’s choice. Sort of like the AMA’s stand (http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/positions/helmet.asp) But, let’s move on:

Kidder…A study put out by Dr. Jonathan Goldstein (http://www.sasnet.com/bro/statistics/goldstein/reviews/cdc90.html) states partly that, “It is concluded that (1) motorcycle helmets have no statistically significant effect on the probability of fatality; (2) helmets reduce the severity of head injuries; and (3) past a critical impact speed [13 MPH], helmets increase the severity of neck injuries. (Emphasis mine). What you fail to take into account is that when a rider falls off of the bike, his head may hit the pavement one time (that ‘5 foot fall’). After that, he’s sliding into the hay bales. The helmet does what it was designed to do…protect the head on that five foot fall to the ground. I might add that Dale Earnhardt died as a result of a broken neck caused by the helmet he was wearing, not the crash itself. SVinAustin…I don’t think Dr. Goldstein is part of the “anti-helmet crowd”. Bluedogok…Someone once said “There are three kinds of lies in the world…lies, **** lies, and statistics”. I agree that you can probably read into stats what you want them to say, and to that end, I offer the Traffic Safety Crash Data that I mentioned ( http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSFAnn/TSF2003EarlyEdition.pdf ).Table 90, on Page 126: of all the motorcycle riders killed in 2003, 51.5% were helmeted, 45.4% were un-helmeted. The type of crash is not documented, and I would think it’s safe to assume if you hit a wall traveling at 20 miles an hour, the outcome would be different than if you hit the same wall traveling at 100 miles an hour. Maybe, maybe not, but if helmets truly, really, saved your bacon at all times, shouldn’t we have seen the ratio more like 40-60, or 30-70 instead of 51.5-45.4? Pdef…cute. Kidder (again)…your personal knowledge aside, like I stated above, the helmet protects you on that 5 foot fall. You seem a bit prejudice towards helmet use to be objective. And like txmedic, who appears to have first hand knowledge observing the results of crashes, you both support helmet use because of this. Like Tourmeister stated, he personally knew of one rider dead from head trauma while wearing a helmet, but yet has no doubt many un-helmeted riders might escape injuries.

My own thoughts on this matter are 1) I’ll wear a helmet whenever I feel that in doing so, the risks outweigh the benefits, or 2) I’ll not wear a helmet whenever I feel that in doing so, the benefits outweigh the risks. I kind of look at it like bicycle helmets…protective head gear might be smart if I’m mountain biking, but it’s not warranted when I’m tooling around the park.

[Kidder]

jmsrbrt,

I seem a bit prejudiced towards helmet use to be objective? I used to race CMRA. I have seen SO MANY crashes. Like I said, the majority were broken wrists, collar bones, etc. However, they all walked away. If they hadn't been wearing their helmets they would've been seriously hurt or worse. (I'm one of them.)

I think you're reaching on the neck injury argument. You said the NHSTA said that helmets increase the chances of neck injury. Yet, I looked and they SPECIFICALLY SAID that they do NOT. I guess I'd like to know what kind of neck injuries we're talking about. If we're talking about strains then okay. However, if we're talking about broken necks is it the helmet that caused the broken neck or is it the the pole that the person struck that caused the broken neck? I guess I'd like more information, that's all.

So, you think Dale Earnhardt is dead because he was wearing a helmet? I thought one of his safety harnesses failed.

I'm still in agreement that it is a person's decision to wear one or not.
That was your ultimate question, correct?

So, when do you wear your motorcycle helmet and when do you not wear your motorcycle helmet? (You started this. :-D )

Edit: Dr. Goldstein's analysis was done back in 1990. The sales of motorcycles has gone up drastically since then. The average age of motorcyclists has also gone up. A lot of the purchases have been cruisers. And, as we know, a lot of riders on cruisers don't wear helmets. I'd like to see the latest reports on helmeted vs. non-helmeted accidents and the kind of injuries that were sustained.

[jmsrbrt]

I wear my helmet when I'm on the freeway headed to Big Bend, I do not wear it when I'm traveling a back Farm-to-Market road and doing 35-45 mph. I'm a lot more afraid of an 18 wheeler running over me than I am about a deer jumping out in front of me, although I'll probably get killed/injured by the latter.

What I meant by "objective" is the ability to step back, put all of your life experiences and gut feelings aside, and weigh the pros and cons, then come to a decision that is right for you. And about Dale, I believe it came out later, after the fact, that the helmet broke his neck and that's what was ruled the cause of death. Certainly the crash needed to be factored in there somewhere.

:chug: Friends?

[Kidder]

I wear my helmet when I'm on the freeway headed to Big Bend, I do not wear it when I'm traveling a back Farm-to-Market road and doing 35-45 mph. I'm a lot more afraid of an 18 wheeler running over me than I am about a deer jumping out in front of me, although I'll probably get killed/injured by the latter.

What I meant by "objective" is the ability to step back, put all of your life experiences and gut feelings aside, and weigh the pros and cons, then come to a decision that is right for you. And about Dale, I believe it came out later, after the fact, that the helmet broke his neck and that's what was ruled the cause of death. Certainly the crash needed to be factored in there somewhere.

:chug: Friends?

Friends? Sure. Hey, this is the best internet board, period. (Oops, I may not be very objective, but it's still the truth. :-D ) While things can get heated they never get ugly. If I appeared that way it was not intentional. I'm just trying to get people to think about the choices they make like you are. :chug:

[jmsrbrt]

;-) You didn't hurt MY feelings!! I like a little discussion.[/b]

[Tourmeister]

:tab Regarding Dale, I believe it was the deceleration that got him, not the helmet. Because his head was not restrained and his body was, his head kept moving when he hit the wall, snapping the spinal chord. Even without the helmet, this may have occured anyway because the impact was so hard. How the helmet would have helped him is only if he had been using the restraining device many F1 racers were using. It keeps the head pulled back against the head rest. Still, at nearly 200 mph to 0mph, even that might not have worked. There may be no external blunt injuries, but the organs inside you still come to a screeching halt that can cause serious internal injuries.

:tab I recall reading an arugment in that famous anti-hemlet research paper that the extra weight of the helmet can snap your neck under severe deceleration. In Dale's case where his body was restrained and his head was not, this argument hold validity. However, in most motorcycle accidents, I would think that the body and head don't see such drastically different deceleration rates. Both come off the bike and slide as a unit. Yes, the helmet will help in that five foot fall, but it will also help to keep your noggin off the asphalt while you are sliding. Think you can keep your head up on your own? Sure, maybe... assuming you are concious ;-) Now like Dale, if the body is suddenly stopped but the head is free to continue, or vice versa, then you have the differential of deceleration and again, I doubt the helmet will make any difference worn or not.

:tab Another first hand experience is that of my Dad's accident a few years ago. He was riding his Vulcan 1500 out on FM 3090 by the old coal mine near FM 244 just South of Carlos. I was leading. Our routine was that I would zing along on my VFR and he would putt behind on his cruiser. I would slow up after some fun stuff and wait for him to catch up. He was not a hot rodder and just liked poking along. He messed up a sharp corner and the bike lowsided on its' right side. It slid until it hit a paved turnout which caused the tires to grab and highside onto its' left side. Dad was still on the bike. The flip caused his head to hit the pavement so hard that his Arai helmet left a very noticeable indention in the asphalt. He had a severe concussion, lots of broken stuff and got a helicopter ride to Houston. I have no doubt at all the if he had not been wearing that helmet, he would either be dead or a veggie.

:tab All it takes is a split second of not paying attention or misjudging something and the accident starts. Once that process begins, you have little if any control over what happens next. Typically, things will be happening so fast that you won't have time to even think about what to do, much less to actually get it done.

:tab Assuming a new study is ever done, what I would like to know is how many people have suffered fatal neck or head injuries, with and without a helmet. If other injuries caused their death, then whether or not they were wearing a helmet is a bit of a moot point and should not go into any statistics regarding the efficacy of helmets.

:tab Lastly, I think there is a VAST amount of empirical evidence in favor of wearing a helmet. Look at the last 50 years of motorcycle racing. Helmets have always been used in one form or another since the first days of racing. Here we have had thousands of riders in the most extreme conditions at high speeds and yet there have been very few fatalities. The only nasty neck injury I know of is Wayne Rainey. Granted, the tracks are a much safer place to crash than on the street, at least now they are. There is still the Isle of Mann though... Folks die there on a semiregular basis, usually from hitting a brick wall or telephone pole :shock: The point is though that if helmets were really that big of a risk for career ending neck injuries, I think most racers would be less inclined to wear them. I don't recall ever seeing anyone race without one :scratch

:tab Two issues, are hemlets effective? Depends on who you ask, but I would say more often than not. Should hemlets be required by law? While I don't think so, I can understand why others would argue in favor of it. However, if you wanna ride with me, you gotta wear one ;-) Your choice though...

Adios,

[VFRinAustin]

Oh Scott, there ya go again, letting that engineer out of the box. Way too logical assestment. :-P

[kurt]

How about medical trials?

Motorcycle helmet use and incidence of spinal injuries - adapted from the Annals of Emergency Medicine, April 1994
American Family Physician, Sept 15, 1994


The value of motorcycle helmet use in the reduction or prevention of head injury is well documented. However, it also has been suggested that helmets might cause spinal injuries. Orsay and colleagues performed a multicenter, retrospective review to evaluate the relationship between helmet use and spinal injuries in motorcycle trauma. Motorcycle trauma victims presenting to emergency rooms in four midwestern states were included in the review. Data were collected from periods in 1988 through 1990. The severity of head or spinal injury was rated with an injury scale score. Study subjects were divided into two groups, helmeted and unhelmeted, for the purpose of data analysis.

Of the 1,153 patients reviewed, 252 were wearing helmets and 804 were not wearing helmets; in 97 patients, the helmet status was unknown. Two hundred fifty-four patients (22 percent of the sample) sustained severe head injuries, with the rate being 26.1 percent among those not wearing helmets and 11.1 percent among those wearing helmets. Significant spinal injuries occurred in 51 cases (4.4 percent), and no significant association with helmet use was apparent. Consumption of alcoholic beverages was negatively associated with helmet use. Only 11 percent of trauma patients using alcohol wore helmets, compared with 35.8 percent of those not using alcohol.


The authors conclude that the use of motorcycle helmets reduces head injuries without an increase in the occurrence of spinal injuries in motorcycle trauma victims. Alcohol use is associated with an increased incidence of both head and spinal injuries and with decreased helmet use. (Annals of Emergency Medicine, April 1994, vol. 23, p. 802.)

[Bill J. from Austin]

All it takes is a split second of not paying attention or misjudging something and the accident starts. Once that process begins, you have little if any control over what happens next. Typically, things will be happening so fast that you won't have time to even think about what to do, much less to actually get it done.
That's been my experience. None of this "slow-motion, plenty-of-time-to-react" stuff. In fact, my last accident (work-related, not M/C or M/V) was a 30' to 35' fall, and I didn't even have time to say "Oh, shucks!" :angel: before I hit the ground!

[AggieVFR]

Maybe this isn't a good enough reason for everyone else, but it works for me: I rubbed my face on the pavement the very first time I rode a bike without a helmet. Luckily, it was only a fleshwound as some Monty Python alums might say, but I consider myself lucky to still be able to ride and to have the ability to CHOOSE to wear a helmet. For a while I got pretty annyoed having to tell people that the circular mark on my chin was a scar and not some wierd case of ringworm. :roll: I guess it has faded enough now for most folks to not notice, but I see it in the mirror every morning and remember that a helmet could have prevented it. Like I said, I feel lucky that all I have to show for my act of indiscretion is a few scars and wounded pride for being such a bonehead. We live in a free country where people have many freedoms including the freedom to choose to not wear a helmet. For those that choose not to, that's their prerogative. As for me and those that go riding with me, we wear helmets. Just a personal preference I guess.
Heck I used to think bicycle helmets looked silly, that is until a low branch managed to bash the top of my head and leave a huge throbbing knot on my head for a few days. I never saw the branch, nor did I think that I'd ever need a helmet. I wear one now because you never know when you might need one. Not to mention that it really freaking hurts to smack the noggin. :headbang:

[VFRJohn]

I ride naked because just like helmets and safety gear, clothes add deadly mass to my body and if I get into an accident I don't want my pants to break my leg.

Hee hee ha ha whoa ho ho whoop whoop ha ha ha ha ha ..... !!
(gasp gasp ... whew!)

BY FAR the most meaningful post I've ever seen on the subject - thanks pdef!

I can't WAIT to use that quote on someone who claims helmets are dangerous, changed to read "Well then, why don't you ride naked...."

John Horn

[pdef]

And I still don't understand why people always make me ride in the back of the group. :moon: :shrug:

[Mer]

I always have and will wear a helmet, regardless of the law. 8-)

[Spider]

I have actually been able to keep my head off the ground while sliding. Was kind of a luge type manuever on my back while watching my bike slide in front of me. But in other accidents I have looked and seen a few scratches on the helmet afterwards. If I could, I would wear a full body helmet-type armor. Leather's are great for the track, but I don't think they're adequate for the street. They've served me well thus far, but if they COULD be made significantly safer, wouldn't you buy and wear them?

[kawgrl]

Like Scott and several others have said, its a CHOICE. Wear it, dont wear it, whatever.

As far a

[kawgrl]

:angryfir: I've got to break the cat of jumping on the keyboard...

Like I was saying as far as the stats and facts it depends on where you get the info. I recently did a presentation on this issue and, believe it or not, some of the info is a little contradicting.


pdef: If people are brave enough to look at your bare rear when they ride then..... :hail

[Tx Rider]

I don't care about stats, falling in the shower is enough to crack your skull.

There's road rashed face, loss of teeth, head trauma, all the things that can be obtained from even a simple fall even on a bicycle much less a motorcycle.

I worry about death from hitting a solid object be it a car, deer, pole, tree, whatever. Hit it with body or head and nothing is going to save you. Helmets are only for saving your face/brain when you don't strike a solid object thats going to kill you regardless of gear and they do a good job of it.

The only time I don't wear one these days is when I really need to hear something on the bike and the helmet is interfering, and that's usually just around the block when I'm working on it.

[Tourmeister]

Pretty amazing poll result, 40-0!

Adios,

[Anonymous]

I may have a few rocks in my head, but I prefer to keep them there. ;-) Personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I wear a helmet - always.

Oh, the bug thing. I was riding the other day and one big mf'ing bug hit me right in the middle of my forehead. I felt that sucker hit even with my helmet on. I saw him coming, but before I could even blink, WHACK! I know it's dead. If I hadn't had my helmet on, I would have been one sorry mess, too. :puke:

Ride safe & far,