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MetrickMetal
01-05-2008, 11:09 AM
I have always run K&N air filters in my bikes, and I am getting ready to buy one for my Bandit. The K&N part number is SU-6000, and I can get one thru my local Autozone store for $39.99 plus tax.

Has anyone found it cheaper than this anywhere?

DANNYROTH
01-05-2008, 11:49 AM
I bought mine for my Honda XR650L through the local Autozone store. You can find them priced cheaper on the web but, after shipping and handling charges, no source I checked came within about $6 to Auto (known by other parts houses as "twilight") zone.

I had to get the K&N part number elsewhere and give it to them because their catalogue systems were set up to do automotive. Having the number, they were able to look up the price and availability. They had it in my hands within 3 days. The delay was because it was not stocked at their distribution center and had to come from K&N..

terrebandit
01-05-2008, 09:02 PM
You might ask if they work out OK in these new bandit engines before buying one. I know the K&Ns did not work well in the 2G bike without a jetting change. Stumbling was a problem here, due to a lean condition, but this bike had carbs. Adding a K&N to your bike may result in increased fuel consumption because its FI but may also increase performance. You might ask around before droping 40 bucks on it.

MetrickMetal
01-05-2008, 09:22 PM
You might ask if they work out OK in these new bandit engines before buying one. I know the K&Ns did not work well in the 2G bike without a jetting change. Stumbling was a problem here, due to a lean condition, but this bike had carbs. Adding a K&N to your bike may result in increased fuel consumption because its FI but may also increase performance. You might ask around before droping 40 bucks on it.

I've never had a problem with installing a K&N air filter, and I've installed them on many bikes over the years, including 3 FI bikes without any other mods, and they all ran just the same as with the stock filter, and I have no worries about in stalling one on my Bandit.

terrebandit
01-05-2008, 09:36 PM
I've never had a problem with installing a K&N air filter, and I've installed them on 3 FI bikes without any other mods, and they all ran just the same as with the stock filter, and I have no worries about in stalling one on my Bandit. ;-)

If they run "just the same" as the stock filter why run them? After you spend 40 bucks on a filter and 15-20 bucks on a cleaning/re-oiling kit, you could probably buy quite a few stock filters with that kind of $, no? Usually stock filters will go 10-15K miles easy.

FWIW, I run a K&N on my 1G Bandit to increase performance.

MetrickMetal
01-05-2008, 10:24 PM
If they run "just the same" as the stock filter why run them? After you spend 40 bucks on a filter and 15-20 bucks on a cleaning/re-oiling kit, you could probably buy quite a few stock filters with that kind of $, no? Usually stock filters will go 10-15K miles easy.

FWIW, I run a K&N on my 1G Bandit to increase performance.

For your info, a stock air filter cost around $24 plus tax from Suzuki, which you throw away when its dirty, and I live in the desert where it does get fairly windy and dusty, I feel that a K&N filter does a better job of trapping dirt than a stock paper filter does, and the K&N allows me to clean it as often as I like.

As far as the cost of cleaning my K&N air filter is concerned, I spray the filter with Simple Green which costs next to nothing, and a large can of filter spray which tends to last me almost 2 years only costs me around $12.

I may be misreading you, which I hope is the case, but I am getting the distinct impression from your reply that you are trying to instigate something with me, and I am also sensing some strong sarcasm in your your reply also, like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

terrebandit
01-05-2008, 10:45 PM
For your info, a stock air filter cost around $24 plus tax from Suzuki, which you throw away when its dirty, and I live in the desert where it does get fairly windy and dusty, I feel that a K&N filter does a better job of trapping dirt than a stock paper filter does, and the K&N allows me to clean it as often as I like.

As far as the cost of cleaning my K&N air filter is concerned, I spray the filter with Simple Green which costs next to nothing, and a large can of filter spray which tends to last me almost 2 years only costs me around $12.

I may be misreading you, which I hope is the case, but I am getting the distinct impression from your reply's that you are trying to instigate something with me, well if that is the case, I have no intentions of engaging you.

Hey, I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I was just trying to understand your logic. :giveup:

I didn't know you could use Simple Green on a K&N. Never heard of that before. Also, if you have to spend $24 bucks on a stock air filter, well I can see your point on the financial side of things. I use to pay alot less for my stock filters, plus I don't live in a desert.

suzukijo
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
FWIW, I run a K&N on my 1G Bandit to increase performance.


when you ran it on the dyno, how much added hp did just the filter bring?

terrebandit
01-05-2008, 11:04 PM
when you ran it on the dyno, how much added hp did just the filter bring?

Never ran mine on a dyno but Dale Walker (Holeshot) did when he designed the stage 1 kit which included a K&N filter and a 5 degree advancer. Stock was about 100 hp and this kit, with his slip-on (which I also have), ran about 118 hp. My bike is set up exactly like the one he tested.

FWIW, Dale Walker also developed a stage 1 kit for the 2G Bandit. On that kit he recommends using a stock air filter and recommended against using a K&N. He pulled more hp and produced a better power curve using the stock filter. This is why I made the point that I did. More airflow is not always better (fuel economy or performance). In my case, I use it for performance reasons in my current set-up.

Dave

suzukijo
01-06-2008, 12:03 AM
so your saying its the advancer and the new pipe that makes the hp, not the filter?

RTL
01-06-2008, 12:19 AM
One thing I do believe is that the OEM filter feeds the engine cleaner air than the K&N. If you accept that trade off for possibly getting a little more O2 to the engine then go for it. Over the long run K&N might offer some savings.

suzukijo
01-06-2008, 12:43 AM
so the stock air filter feeds the engine cleaner air, and by itself makes more hp. the reason the K&N is better, is because you can clean it and save money compared to forever replacing the stock air filter?

what does the dirtier air do to the engine, if i would use the K&N filter?

sound like since i want my bike to make more hp, and last long, i should not use a K&N filter, unless i hop it up.

does anyone ever just throw away the K&N filter when it gets dirty?
it says on the instructions, to let it air dry after you wash it, does anyone ever do that, or do you use compressed air to dry it? or, does that ruin the filter guaze.

i think i am going to save the $40 instead, for a new tire, since they dont last, and i think its easier to take the rear tire off, than to pull the gastank to get to the air filter.....:rofl: ......you guys know i'm kidding, right?

off topic, but has anyone found a cheap price on a 530 chain kit?

terrebandit
01-06-2008, 12:47 AM
so your saying its the advancer and the new pipe that makes the hp, not the filter?

No, its really the jet kit (main jets/needles/pilots/fuel screw setting), the pipe and the filter working in combination with each other that make the increased power. The advancer improves throttle response.

suzukijo
01-06-2008, 01:13 AM
that makes sense.
mines the 1250, with fi.

Maintainer
01-06-2008, 09:04 AM
I've read data related to this very issue (sorry I can't find it). They tested many different brands of air filters from reusables to paper O.E.M.'s. The consenses was that yes K&N's flow a larger volume of air, but in the process trap less dirt and grit. Increased dirt and grit introduced into the crankcase thru the intake in the long run can equate to increased wear factors caused by contaminated, dirtier engines with more abrasives in their oil. A regular O.E.M. paper air filter did the best job of filtration but was also the most restrictive. There is no performance advantage to the addition of a K&N style high flow air filter to an otherwise stock engine aside from it fact of it being reusable. Increasing the air volume/quanity on just the intake side of an engine will not glean any real performance gains. It takes a package of complimentary mods to increase engine power like: More intake air volume in + remap or rejet to add fuel for a richer mixture + opening up the exhaust for less back pressure/restriction. Also on F.I. bikes if you don't remap the fuel delivery via Power Commander for intake or exhaust mods you can negatively affect idle quality some low rpm power delivery. It also seems that carbureted bikes would need a rejet to avoid this glitch.:shrug:

Roy
01-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Personally I am not a big fan of a K&N filter. anything passing more air is also passing, well more dirt. I roadraced for 4 years and always like many others that were alot faster used OEM filters. I have seen dyno runs with K&N verses stock, actually the OEM made more hp.

YMMV but its OEM all the way for me. I even use a OEM in my Toyota Tacoma.

GregH
01-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Roy,
How much horsepower are you making in the Tacoma? :mrgreen:

RTL
01-06-2008, 11:46 AM
On that 530 chain just under $80 here http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/product.php?productid=102697&cat=21364&page=1

Roy
01-06-2008, 05:46 PM
Roy,
How much horsepower are you making in the Tacoma? :mrgreen:

not enough :mrgreen:

rworm
01-06-2008, 06:15 PM
good to find more bandit forums-el bandito&suzuki joe this is WORM from the other forum-gutted factory exhaust-arkansas-hey great to be here and lots of stuff on this foum- rode up through heber springs today 72degrees in ar.- about 150 mile round trip through foothills great ride with crotch rockets- hey el bandito thanks for the picture help i appreciate it- going toget power programmer this week and have mapped at rodneys cycle in little rock-as far as k&n filter i am pulling stock airbox and all clutter and putting-4-singles on my bike you talk about cleaning up it will look clean

rworm
01-06-2008, 06:19 PM
good to find more bandit forums-el bandito&suzuki joe this is WORM from the other forum-gutted factory exhaust-arkansas-hey great to be here and lots of stuff on this foum- rode up through heber springs today 72degrees in ar.- about 150 mile round trip through foothills great ride with crotch rockets- hey el bandito thanks for the picture help i appreciate it- going to get power programmer this week and have mapped at rodneys cycle in little rock-as far as k&n filter i am pulling stock airbox and all clutter and putting-4-singles on my bike you talk about cleaning up it will look clean -talk to ya later


BLACK 1250S
WORM

rworm
01-08-2008, 12:25 PM
just wondered if anyone had been to k&N website to read about K&N data-i started to think i didnt want it-enough with guessing read the facts!!!!


rworm


my 4 will be in tommorrow-jamie @fuelmotousa.com is sending my powercommander set up for my open muffler and 4 single K&Ns-really a nice guy who knows what he is doing-$269.00 shipped and ready to plug in no guess work

RTL
01-08-2008, 04:45 PM
Hey rworm,

Just note that "the facts" are by the company trying to sell you their filter!
I always find "facts" more believable if from an unbiased source.;-)

RTL

rworm
01-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Hey rworm,

Just note that "the facts" are by the company trying to sell you their filter!
I always find "facts" more believable if from an unbiased source.;-)

RTL

RTL
for my bikes sake i hope their filters are as good as they say they are properly maintained-putting -4 -on tommorrow


rworm

terrebandit
01-08-2008, 07:23 PM
RTL
for my bikes sake i hope their filters are as good as they say they are properly maintained-putting -4 -on tommorrow


rworm

oops... another one sucked in by sales propaganda :mrgreen: JUST KIDDING!

Actually, I have a K&N too but I didn't buy it because I trust K&N's data. Seriously, I think they look like decent filters but they are not something I would take a chance on in dirty/dusty conditions.

bones
01-08-2008, 11:22 PM
I will never run a K&N on anything off pavement. Long story and I have my reasons. HARD to clean well and mine let junk past it in Moab on a rockcrawler and went to stock, then Amsoil. It really ticked me off since it was a new rebuilt motor.

For a street bike I would, but still will likely run a UNI or an Amsoil if they would make them for bikes.

SoCalBandit
02-15-2008, 10:04 PM
I feel that a K&N filter does a better job of trapping dirt than a stock paper filter does,
Hi guys!
Newbie to the site but not to cycling.
I've seen more than one stufy that show the opposite El Bandito.
K&N's (according to the study's I've seen) allow MORE dirt into the engine.
Makes sense that if they allow more air through, they allow more dirt too.
There's a reason paper oil filters have been around forever, paper filters excellent and it's inexpensive. I actually sell paper filteration for Swimming Pool Filters and I can tell you that paper filters down to the FINEST Microns, giving the BEST filteration possible.

Because of the dirt issue, I'd only run a K&N if I planned on getting a new bike every couple of years.
Just my .02 guys. :chug:

PhilS
02-15-2008, 10:10 PM
Because of the dirt issue, I'd only run a K&N if I planned on getting a new bike every couple of years.
Just my .02 guys. :chug:

Holy cow.....this will start a filter war!! Thanks!:doh: Why not throw in an Obama, Clinton, McCain reference while we're at it!!!!

Haha - just playin'.

SoCalBandit
02-15-2008, 10:13 PM
Holy cow.....this will start a filter war!! Thanks!:doh: Why not throw in an Obama, Clinton, McCain reference while we're at it!!!!

Haha - just playin'.

Where's the Politics and Religion Forum??!! :rofl:

Don't even get me started on Your Mama and Billiary!! LOL!!

rworm
02-15-2008, 10:15 PM
Hi guys!
Newbie to the sight but not to cycling.
I've seen more than one stufy that show the opposite El Bandito.
K&N's (according to the study's I've seen) allow MORE dirt into the engine.
Makes sense that if they allow more air through, they allow more dirt too.
There's a reason paper oil filters have been around forever, paper filters excellent and it's inexpensive. I actually sell paper filteration for Swimming Pool Filters and I can tell you that paper filters down to the FINEST Microns, giving the BEST filteration possible.

Because of the dirt issue, I'd only run a K&N if I planned on getting a new bike every couple of years.
Just my .02 guys. :chug:

Wow I hope he's done SUM research



rworm

suzukijo
02-15-2008, 10:19 PM
i really like K&N filters.
only problem is throwing them away every use.

i always went back to stock paper. so i just dont buy K&N anymore.

rworm
02-15-2008, 10:20 PM
http://www.knfilters.com/motorcycle_atv.htm

Mine are the universal RC1290/ What were yours:rider:


rworm

suzukijo
02-15-2008, 10:28 PM
since i havnt bought a K&N in 20 or so years, i dont know.
i like them when they are new, but i have never been able to clean one to my liking and as long as they were mine, threw them away.

after cleaning one hold it up to a light, and its like a screen.
i realise they flow more, and for some this is a plus.

i am not saying you should not use them.
i just dont see them lasting, and replacing them or paper, i think is the way to go. paper ones are cheaper, and i'm pretty cheap, so i buy paper.

rworm
02-15-2008, 10:32 PM
i really like K&N filters.
only problem is throwing them away every use.

i always went back to stock paper. so i just dont buy K&N anymore.

Just PM me/Ill take everybodys dirty K&N's/


rworm

suzukijo
02-15-2008, 11:34 PM
i do know, between the carbon fiber thingie and the gold thingie, is a K&N air filter!

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6888/9814previewew2.jpg

thats bob and terri, doing the wrenching, HONDA INDY V-8.

SoCalBandit
02-15-2008, 11:46 PM
i do know, between the carbon fiber thingie and the gold thingie, is a K&N air filter!

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6888/9814previewew2.jpg

thats bob and terri, doing the wrenching, HONDA INDY V-8.

Sure, and how often do they tear down and rebuild those motors?? The more dirt factor doesn't matter to them.

MetrickMetal
02-16-2008, 02:08 AM
For all you critics of the K&N, I have a 2001 Honda Civic EX with 130,000 miles on it, that has spent its entire life in the desert of Lancaster and traveling up and down a very dusty and dirty Fwy driving back and forth to work, and the whole time with a K&N air filter installedn the engine.

I have changed the oil regularly along with cleaning and re-oiling the K&N filter every other 3rd oil change, and when I finally had to have the car smog checked a couple of months ago, the engine's emissions were so low that they almost didn't register on some of the scales, and the guy who did the smog check said that this was a sign that my engine was in excellant condition, and that he rarely tests engines with that many miles on them that emit so little pollutants, so someone is going to have a hard time convincing me that a K&N air filter is not an effective air filter, and that I am going to damage an engine using one.

I also never have to add any oil to the engine between oil changes, and whenever I check the oil, it’s always right at the full mark, and the oil always looks clean on the stick.

I also have a 03 Honda VTX 1800C that has 53,000 miles on it that has also had a K&N air filter used on it for its entire life, and the engine on it is also in perfect condition, and its oil consumption is also extremely low for a large displacement V-Twin.

From what I have seen over the years, most people I have known that have used K&N air filters have never cleaned them properly, and in lot of cases failed to re-oil them after they did clean them, and one person didn't even know that the filter was re-usable and threw it away when it got dirty :rofl:

Its funny that I posted this thread merely asking about where was the cheapest place to purchase a K&N air filter, but instead I got opinions about pretty much everything except that, ah such is the life on a forum.
:doh:

suzukijo
02-16-2008, 10:44 AM
reading first post, simply says your going to buy one.
then slowly, progression of thread went to added hp, if other changes were needed since it flows more air, and then if it flows more air how well does it filter. 36 posts later, i would think some would agree, some would not, that what you propose, to spend money on aftermarket than stock, would be truely beneficial.

ultimately, its up to you, to decide if it is what you want.

(i bet if i posted that i am going to buy a tire from place A, and for set price B, the talk would eventually migrate across where i could get a better price, and if that tire itself would be my best application for my riding)

its a forum. there are those of us that just want to troll and post pics.

rworm
02-16-2008, 02:37 PM
This is a 88 Honda 250R Frame /Broke mounts

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh44/robertworm/500RAT001.jpg

IT has a CR500 bike motor/Sand only for this bike
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh44/robertworm/500RAT002.jpg


See the big fat K&N behind the motor
10 years old/proper maintaince/It gets
ran with a pre filter straight off the carb
out in the wide open:rider:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh44/robertworm/500RAT003.jpg


rworm

Maintainer
02-16-2008, 02:43 PM
Dang dude, That bikes so naked even I blushed!!:oops: :rofl:

ben1364
02-16-2008, 03:58 PM
Holy cow.....this will start a filter war!! Thanks!:doh: Why not throw in an Obama, Clinton, McCain reference while we're at it!!!!

Haha - just playin'.

We could also expand the thread to include cow magnets and the Fish carburetor if you like...

X1Glider
02-16-2008, 04:01 PM
Mind if I solidify a couple things on the K&N?

We all agree...the K&N flows more air but it also lets in more dirt. The OEM paper filter traps more dirt but lets less air through.

The comments on that a filter that allows more air through must let more dirt through is not completely true.

The difference between the paper filter and the K&N is the tightness of the pleats, number of pleats and number of layers of guaze that the K&N has. The K&N acually has more filter surface area than the OEM filter does and that's one of the resons it flows so well. The paper filters are flat planar pleats and single layer material. The guaze has more open pores and normally would let rather large particles through it, but when you use many layers of it, the pores from inside to outside get smaller. Then there is the filter oil that soaks in, swells the guaze to close the pores down even smaller and makes the dirt stick to it. The K&N actually is quite effective at trapping dirt. However the micron rating of the paper OEM filters is easier to control at manufacturing and the rating is smaller and more consistent. But the nature of it's contruction doesn't allow air to flow all that well, just acceptably for OEM purposes. It would have to be a rather large one and would probably need a larger, deeper airbox. What the K&N has going for it, is your engine will probably never be starving for air. That means a potential for more HP, but the filter alone won't get you any.

I've been using the K&N on the street for about 20 years and have never seen additional wear on the intenals of an engine because of it. And I've torn a lot of different engines apart.

There is a problem with titanium valves though. Engine heat and dust, that a K&N might let through will destroy Ti valve quite quickly. Without getting into materials engineering, the elements that make up the dust burn on the Ti valves in an explosive manner and eat at the surface of the valve, similar the way cavitation works.

All that said, I'd never put a K&N in the dirt bike. Even dustier conditions and Ti intakes.

The foam works the same way the K&N does by creating a labirynth of pores for the air to flow through. Does it work better than a K&N? Is it more restrictive? I haven't seen any tests between those 2 types.

rworm
02-16-2008, 04:18 PM
http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm




rworm

ben1364
02-16-2008, 05:56 PM
http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm
rworm

This is a very well produced promotional piece for which the company is due credit. However, I am not convinced.

rworm
02-16-2008, 09:15 PM
This is a very well produced promotional piece for which the company is due credit. However, I am not convinced.

Run what ya like :rider:

rworm

PhilS
02-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Wouldn't it be great if our bikes had a "God designed" cough-it-up feature like our lungs do? Then we wouldn't need air filters at all!!!

Outside of that, I agree with the Worm - "Run what you like". In the big picture, it probably does not make a hill of beans difference unless you are in severe conditions - then application specific filters are a must.

Onward.....:rider:

terrebandit
02-16-2008, 10:14 PM
I've seen good deals on K&N's on e-bay. Pods and airbox units.

Dave