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View Full Version : Oil change today at 157 miles....Weird.


whitesands
03-23-2008, 03:37 AM
Hey guys, just did my first oil/oil filter change at 157 miles...The manual calls for 3.7 quarts which is 3 qt/22.4oz...Well, I poured in 3 qt/16oz and it was over the full line...Started it up and rode the bike about 5 miles then parked it and waited several minutes...Now the oil level was right at Full or maybe just a hair under so it had declined just slightly...Yet, the new bike jitters made me paranoid about not getting that extra 6 oz for a full 3.7qt as the manual calls for...So I added another 4 oz and now I ony have a little bubble at the top of the sight glass but I'm still 2.4oz shy of a full 3.7qt.....New bike jitters really bugging me...:eek2:


Anyone else noticing that 3.5 quarts puts it over the full line ?


Also....I noticed some very fine metallic particles in the old oil after just 157 miles so it might be a good idea to do a couple of early oil changes to get that stuff out of your motor for those of you thinking about waiting till 600 miles..

etcthorne
03-23-2008, 08:49 AM
As long as you're between the "L" and the "H", you're good, according to the owner's manual. I'm a bit anal about this too. I don't even pay attention to the amount going in for the most part. Overfilling is bad too, so keep it at or below that full mark.

jredford
03-23-2008, 09:13 AM
Some times residual oil sticks inside the engine. I would not worry about...just keep it between the marks!

MetrickMetal
03-23-2008, 10:31 AM
For an accurate oil level measuremnt you need to make sure that the bike is sitting as verticle as possible, for even 5 degrees off of vertical can really effect the oil level in the sight glass.

So what I found that works great and assures that I have the bike sitting as vertical as possible is place one of my good quality torpedo levels centered crossways on my seat, resting in the crack between the rider and passenger sections of the seat.

I then place my bike about 3 ft away from the wall in my garage, then as I kneel along the right side of my bike facing towards the back of the bike, I grab ahold of the brake master cylinder/handlebar with my right hand I pull the bike up off the side stand and raise it until the bubble on the level is centered.

Its then very easy to glance down and look at the sight glass and check the oil level, and having the bike about 3 ft from the wall allows me to brace myself against the wall, helping me to keep the bike steady during the process and its very easy for me to check my oil level this way.

Also remember to have the engine warmed up before checking the oil level . :rider:

GregH
03-23-2008, 10:56 AM
You could measure the oil that drained and compare that to the amount of oil you put in ...if you're really paranoid! :eek2:

dwoodul
03-23-2008, 11:37 AM
Not to worry...

Like El Bandito said. Just changed mine and it took 3.7 qts with the filter change. It's good you changed the oil/filter at 150. I checked mine like the manual says then every time I ride. After the initial check I just look at the site glass with the bike in the straight-up position and if it's full or close, I ride. I changed mine at 200 and 600. Over-kill but what-the-heck.

If you got 3.7 qts in than you're OK. .1 or .2 down won't hurt it but I think it's good to have it topped off before you head out for a long ride. I've never had to add any oil (but then I only have 800 miles on the bike).

BTW - I'm switching to synthetic at 1000-1200 miles.

Ol Dave

PhL0aTeR
03-23-2008, 12:13 PM
Some times residual oil sticks inside the engine. I would not worry about...just keep it between the marks!

Ditto, sometimes "oil capaicity" means exactly what it takes from dry, and when you drain the oil during a change, some of it stays over in the case, so just keep it within the marks.

I know my service manual gives me like 3 different oil capacities, 1 for filling from dry, the other for just oil change, and another for oil and filter change.

whitesands
03-23-2008, 06:04 PM
You could measure the oil that drained and compare that to the amount of oil you put in ...if you're really paranoid! :eek2:

Ha Ha.....I actually thought about doing that! :eek2:

whitesands
03-23-2008, 06:10 PM
For an accurate oil level measuremnt you need to make sure that the bike is sitting as verticle as possible, for even 5 degrees off of vertical can really effect the oil level in the sight glass.

So what I found that works great and assures that I have the bike sitting as vertical as possible is place one of my good quality torpedo levels centered crossways on my seat, resting in the crack between the rider and passenger sections of the seat.

I then place my bike about 3 ft away from the wall in my garage, then as I kneel along the right side of my bike facing towards the back of the bike, I grab ahold of the brake master cylinder/handlebar with my right hand I pull the bike up off the side stand and raise it until the bubble on the level is centered.

Its then very easy to glance down and look at the sight glass and check the oil level, and having the bike about 3 ft from the wall allows me to brace myself against the wall, helping me to keep the bike steady during the process and its very easy for me to check my oil level this way.

Also remember to have the engine warmed up before checking the oil level . :rider:

LOL.....Hey I actually did too! I put a leveler right where the front meets the rear seat and checked it that way...Works great for making sure the bike is centered...Like you said it makes a big difference....

suzukijo
03-23-2008, 06:15 PM
i'm with gregh.
1. how much oil did you drain out?
2. what exactly was the oil level before you drained it (engine ran how long, how far over was bike tilted, etc)
3. in what manner did you drain the oil, was is still dripping when you put the drain plug back in, blah blah.

if your gonna be paranoid, what did you pour back in?
how tight did you tighten the filter?

seriously, drain the oil, put new oil back in, hold bike level, top off to high mark, ride.
whats there to be paranoid about?
have you ever changed the oil in some other vehicle, and had similar problems? you sure your not looking at QT/LTR ?

lastly, what did you do with the old drain oil?
thats got me paranoid.

suzukijo
03-23-2008, 06:17 PM
So what I found that works great and assures that I have the bike sitting as vertical as possible is place one of my good quality torpedo levels centered crossways on my seat, ...snip by suzukijo....

yes, but have you calibrated your torpedo levels?

rworm
03-23-2008, 06:27 PM
take seat off-level across frame-i centerstand and dump oil in
rworm:rider:

FDM
03-24-2008, 10:33 AM
Also....I noticed some very fine metallic particles in the old oil after just 157 miles so it might be a good idea to do a couple of early oil changes to get that stuff out of your motor for those of you thinking about waiting till 600 miles..

I seen the same thing and a few slivers to go along with it, I was surprised to see that much metallic in the oil, the first oil change on the Katana was clean at 500 miles, just makes me wonder why the Bandit had so much metal in it.

whitesands
03-24-2008, 11:26 PM
Interesting...Perhaps it's the massive clutch....

h2000fb
03-24-2008, 11:53 PM
I don't think you guys are leveling your bikes good enough. You are really asking for trouble. You can't just fill it with oil any ol way!!! Get real!

You need to machine an extension to attach to your front and rear axles. This way you can run a long 8 foot level from the front to the rear axles, setting the level on these extensions. This will insure it is level from the front to back. You may have to put shims under the tires to make bike perfectly level.

Next, you set a smaller level on the flat part of the axle extension to insure it is level from side to side- absolutely no lean. Only in this way can you really be certain you fill the bike properly!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

suzukijo
03-25-2008, 12:18 AM
debris in the oil, seen as small metalflakes, is from the straight cut transmission gears, and primary drive gears breaking in. race parts have these polished, and do not need any breakin.

shift drum/forks, ball bearings, plain main bearings, piston to bore, cam chain, and cam to cam journal, make no contamination of the oil other than adding small amounts of impurities to the oil, or other physical harm, shortening the molecule chains, which is commonly called viscosity loss.
motorcycle oils have additives that improve the load bearing of the trans gears, one of them being zinc.

seeing metal flakes in the oil when a bike is new, is nothing out of the ordinary.
what is out of the ordinary, is someone who has never seen it before, pointing it out like something is wrong with the machinery.

Roy
03-25-2008, 07:01 AM
debris in the oil, seen as small metalflakes, is from the straight cut transmission gears, and primary drive gears breaking in. race parts have these polished, and do not need any breakin.

shift drum/forks, ball bearings, plain main bearings, piston to bore, cam chain, and cam to cam journal, make no contamination of the oil other than adding small amounts of impurities to the oil, or other physical harm, shortening the molecule chains, which is commonly called viscosity loss.
motorcycle oils have additives that improve the load bearing of the trans gears, one of them being zinc.

seeing metal flakes in the oil when a bike is new, is nothing out of the ordinary.
what is out of the ordinary, is someone who has never seen it before, pointing it out like something is wrong with the machinery.

He would be in shock to see what comes out of a RM-Z450 oil and filter after the 16 hours use. Run a magnet over the filter and it looks like the entire crank is ground up on it. They do that however:trust: Honestly I never pay much attention to my streetbikes oil or filter I change both and go on my way. I fill the oil filter full 1st with oil, fill up the crankcase to the full line crank the bike let it run a while re-check. I usually have to add a 100mil or so to top it off. I like it just below full line when hot. I go about 3k miles on a oil and filter change. It will use a little oil (100mil or so) in 3k miles but thats okay they should use a little oil here and there.

FDM
03-26-2008, 04:59 PM
Hey Jo if your talking about me, I was not surprised to see some metal just didnít expect to see that much and I am sure not implying there is any thing wrong with the machinery (just learning here) I have plenty past experience with motors but not much with bikes, up to a little over a year ago I had been off them for 20 years.

Outlander
03-26-2008, 05:38 PM
I don't think you guys are leveling your bikes good enough. You are really asking for trouble. You can't just fill it with oil any ol way!!! Get real!

You need to machine an extension to attach to your front and rear axles. This way you can run a long 8 foot level from the front to the rear axles, setting the level on these extensions. This will insure it is level from the front to back. You may have to put shims under the tires to make bike perfectly level.

Next, you set a smaller level on the flat part of the axle extension to insure it is level from side to side- absolutely no lean. Only in this way can you really be certain you fill the bike properly!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


You may want to consider air trapped inside the oil (Think of the air diluted in the water of a fish tank). You may want to consider put the oil under vacuum, as we do with downhole tools, before filling. That is the only way to do it.

RatBat
03-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Ok,
I feel pretty stupid (but dont tell me) asking this questions, since this is oil issues, I got one for you. I have a Bandit 1200 05 and I remember that I had an air bubble in my indicator, but during the summer and after an oil change, it was gone. I changed more times during the next two years but never got THAT bubble back.

What does it mean, and how important is it to have that bubble in the indicator? I have always been between HI/lo levels

RatBat

h2000fb
03-26-2008, 09:51 PM
You may want to consider air trapped inside the oil (Think of the air diluted in the water of a fish tank). You may want to consider put the oil under vacuum, as we do with downhole tools, before filling. That is the only way to do it.

You're correct! I forget all about the air. This can really add volume. At the very least, you should never shake the oil prior to adding it to the crankcase. You should let it set for at least an hour before pouring and then pour carefully to prevent any "head" from forming on the oil.

suzukijo
03-26-2008, 10:54 PM
Hey Jo if your talking about me, I was not surprised to see some metal just didnít expect to see that much and I am sure not implying there is any thing wrong with the machinery (just learning here) I have plenty past experience with motors but not much with bikes, up to a little over a year ago I had been off them for 20 years.


first oil change whether at 150 or 600 mi, often has lots of metal.
i jsut think, like you, its more concerning, when its your bike.

it looks like my 4th oil change coming up soon.

FDM
03-27-2008, 09:06 PM
I hear ya on that suzukijo, Thanks for the info.

whitesands
03-28-2008, 12:08 AM
Went another 200 miles and did another EARL change at 370...Had some small metallic particles but alot less than the first change...Going to do another at 600 before going to normal intervals...

The bike is running exceptionally well and getting smoother and stronger as the miles increase...

whitesands
04-06-2008, 01:45 AM
Did my 3rd oil change today at 600 miles with Rotella T 15W40....The old oil was pretty clean but still some very small particles but much less than the first two times and I didn't notice any of the long shavings that were in the first two oil changes...

The bike ran very well with the Rotella T as the shifting and clutch action very smooth...Less than $10 at wallyworld but with an additive package that makes alot of MC specific oils look weak...