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rworm
03-24-2008, 06:47 AM
What a difference in shifting/ I am hooked

http://www.thebestoil.com/mcf.asp


rworm:thumb:

NUTT
03-24-2008, 07:54 AM
You are spending too much money. Try this next time. (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasynth.html)

DFW_Warrior
03-24-2008, 08:31 AM
You are spending too much money. Try this next time. (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasynth.html)

Not a synthetic my friend. Just a highly refined dino oil that sticks the synthetic label on the bottle.;-)

I use nothing but Amsoil and yes, it is awesome stuff indeed. I can tell a vast difference in shifting over Rotella "synthetic" stuff.

FDM
03-24-2008, 09:20 AM
What about Motul 5100 semi synthetic, the shop I use recommended this, anyone have long term experience with it? And how many miles do you put on the Amsoil before changing it? They say you can go twice the amount on full syn oil.

NathanH
03-24-2008, 09:42 AM
I tried the Rotella T. Once. Couldn't wait to switch back to my favorite Silkolene synth. Noticeable depreciation in sound, feel, and shifting. There are tons of of studies out there and everyone has their own opinion. I won't try to persuade those who have joined the Amsoil cult, since there seems to be a lot of data out to suggest it's pretty good stuff. But Rotella is a no go for me.

wonder91178
03-24-2008, 09:46 AM
After Cliff Piper's recommendation (Piper Performance Racing) to use Rotella T in our bikes, that's all John and I have used.

Not sure what'll go in the "new" bikes though :trust:

gotdurt
03-24-2008, 09:49 AM
Oh no, here we go...:doh:

DFW_Warrior
03-24-2008, 09:59 AM
Don't get me wrong, Rotella is some good stuff. But it's not for every bike out there. It won't hurt any of them, but some prefer it and others don't. My Warrior tranny hated Rotella and made the shifting very, very notchy. My ex-wife's SV loved the stuff and it ran better with it over Amsoil.

I use Amsoil in Strom just because of the longer change intervals. I usually go 5-6k miles before changing oil and I wouldn't dream of doing that with Rotella.

NUTT
03-24-2008, 10:21 AM
My ex-wife's SV loved the stuff and it ran better with it over Amsoil.

Rotella is the SV owners Kool Aid :trust:

The design engineers I've talked to (I'm at a Shell R&D facility) have said that it is a very good oil & suitable for m/c use.

That said, different designs will like different oils. I just did the 1K mile service on the Buell & used HD Formula + for the primary & Rotella T (conventional) & it seems to be running fine so far.

bones
03-24-2008, 10:23 AM
Rotella in all my bikes, it has it's place. I have yet to change the Bandit and the PO used Amsoil and I will likely find a dealer here and see what his costs are. If too high, I may just go with dealer recommended oil.

mikeofcontex
03-24-2008, 11:17 AM
My big twin loves Rotella.

dwoodul
03-24-2008, 12:30 PM
The main thing is to change your oil regularly. All major brands do a good job. I'm an Amsoil fan - used it in all my stuff (bikes, cars, lawn-movers etc.) since 1990 (engine oil, gear oil, trans fluid etc.).

rworm
03-24-2008, 12:47 PM
You are spending too much money. Try this next time. (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasynth.html)

.50 more a quart here
I change oil every 2000/Not expensive enough to worry about
Noticed trans. shifting immediatly-SMOOTHER
rworm

Mitral
03-24-2008, 01:51 PM
Everything you care to know about motor oil can be found at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I use Pennzoil Platinum in both my vehicles. The Bandit only has 32 miles on it. Still undecided what to use.

In the bottom of the forums there is a sub-forum for rebates and sales. I never buy PP (Pennzoil Platinum) for over $1.99 a quart!!!

Look in the used oil analysis section for some interesting results!!

GregH
03-24-2008, 09:01 PM
I like the sound of $1.99/quart.

wolfshead1
03-25-2008, 09:46 AM
My Wee likes the Rot.synth. and it shifts smoother than the hi priced spread.I hate buying it from wallyworld but because of travel it's available around the corner and around the clock.I hate oily arguments

byby
wolfshead1

Sheep
03-29-2008, 10:11 PM
Currently Suzuki's own branded 4-S motorcycle synthetic is actually a Shell Rotella synth (motorcycle version though)... got that info from an informed Amsoil dealer who also happens to be a longtime bike rider. Take that info however you wish.

I too use only Amsoil in bikes, etc. Currently in the Bandit 1250 (4500mi) and as soon as I reach the 600mi service for the SV650, I'll put Amsoil in it. Doing 20w-50 in the higher revvin' V-twin with the warmer weather and a trip approaching. Update: Just finished the 600 and it works great so far.

SoCalBandit
04-07-2008, 12:36 AM
What about Motul 5100 semi synthetic, the shop I use recommended this, anyone have long term experience with it?
I never use a "Semi" Synth oil.
You don't know how much Synth is in "Semi" Synth.
Is it 10% Synth? Is it 30% Synth? is it 50% Synth??

I either use FULL Synth or Dino oil...and All the studies I've seen show there's miniscule difference between Car Full Synth oil and Motorcycle Full Synth oil, so I use the cheaper Car Synth oil...regualar MOBIL1 15W50.

If you really want Semi Synth I'd buy a gallon of Full Synth and Dino and mix the two 50/50, then you're assured of the Synth content.

Captcha
04-07-2008, 03:37 AM
These sites do not seem like super reputable sources to me.

While I know people that use Rotella and swear by, it bothers to buy oil at wallyworld. I am an Amsoil fan myself, definably cost a little more but worth peace at mind for me.

I concur with dwoodul, change you oil AND filter regularly. It's funny to see at the parts store people buying the fanciest oil on the shelf and then getting the cheapest filter. I am a K&N oil filter person myself.

Also, anyone here ever use royal purple for your two-wheeled machines, how did it work out? I don't plan on it, just curious.

Sheep
04-07-2008, 11:11 AM
There are additives in motorcycle oil vs. automotive oil designed to make the wet clutch perform properly. Maybe some oil companies "throw" bike additives into all their synths, I don't know, but I'm not assuming they do just because it's some popular synth company. Amsoil produces only 2 dedicated 4-S mult-vis oils for bikes with wet clutches and they are MCF 10w-40 & MCV 20w-50; both are JASO and MA2 (higher) rated. Recent Suzi manuals specifically state to use an oil (doesn't say dino or synth) which meets JASO & MA standards, the latter for wet clutches. Was stated in my M109r, Bandit 1250 & SV650 manuals with pictures.

Just suggesting that whichever brand or type oil you use that it meets exactly what your manual stipulates, so there is never a loophole in a warranty claim. HTH :thumb:

SoCalBandit
04-07-2008, 12:30 PM
Just suggesting that whichever brand or type oil you use that it meets exactly what your manual stipulates, so there is never a loophole in a warranty claim. HTH :thumb:
Good point!

Mitral
04-08-2008, 06:57 AM
I just changed my oil at 300 miles and decided to put in the Amsoil MCF 10W40. I actually went to walmart first to purchase Rotella synthetic, but just couldn't get myself to do it, despite all the great oil analysis'.

Yea, the Amsoil is quite expensive at $6.50 a qt, but it sure is worth it imo. I does shift much nicer, and the piece of mind is priceless. I may do an oil analysis myself after this batch just to see how things are doing....

BTW, anyone have trouble with their oil filter the first time? I had to pound a screw driver through the filter and turn it almost two full revolutions before it was loose enough to turn it by hand. Do they have King Kong putting these things on in the factory? So much for using a torque wrench.

I use Wix filters in my cars, and decided to use them on the bike as well.

DFW_Warrior
04-08-2008, 07:01 AM
I use Wix filters in my cars, and decided to use them on the bike as well.

Why not go one step further and just use the Amsoil filter as well?? It's good stuff indeed.:mrgreen:

DaveC
04-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Walmart house brand synthetic every 5000 miles.
It is the shearing in the transmission gears that tears the oil up.
Just about any oil well do. Excluding recycled oils. The older 2 stroke required 30w non detergent, The clutches just hate that.
The thing is you must develope a "feel" for your bike and how it shifts. The first indication it needs fresh stuff is when it doesn't feel or sound like it should when fresh oil is in it. Frankly I don't pay much attention to milage, if I have change in shifting and associated noise I change it. Just at 5000 miles from what I can tell. I only get 1500 miles out of regular dino. Funny the oil still feels 'slippery" .
I also magnitize the metal filter plate. This picks up all the micro metal parts floating in the oil. It is along the same lines as a magnet in your automatic transmission found on GM vehicles.

MetrickMetal
04-08-2008, 09:41 AM
What a difference in shifting/ I am hooked

http://www.thebestoil.com/mcf.asp


rworm:thumb:


I've been using amsoil 10/40 motorcycle oil in my bikes for about 10 years now and wouldn't use anything else in my bikes, in fact I have to change the oil today as I just hit 7,500 miles coming home from school last night.

I usually run the Amsoil at twice whatever the oil change interval is with a filter change in the middle, and I switched to the 10/40 Amsoil at the 4,000 mile oil change, and I changing the oil out today with only 3,500 miles on it, as I figured that things were probably still wearing in a little.

So after todays oil change I'll run the oil until the 14,500 mile oil change and change the filter and top up the oil level at the normal 11,000 mile oil change.

Amsoil says that you can safely double the oil change interval, but they also recommend a filter change in the middle of the oil change interval. :rider:

ekms377
04-08-2008, 12:24 PM
I use Amsoil in Strom just because of the longer change intervals. I usually go 5-6k miles before changing oil and I wouldn't dream of doing that with Rotella.


Are you saying that you put Rotella through more stress in your VStrom than my 1-ton Chevy Diesel??? I go 5-6K between changes on Rotella as do most diesel folks. Granted.....the filter makes allot of difference as well but Rotella in any bike would be fine. Now that being said.....it is not actually made for motorcycles and will act differently in each bike. I do use Rotella in my dirtbikes as recommended by Rekluse, but I change my oil after every race and the oil looks just like I put it in. Before that, I used an actually tranny fluid made my Bel-Ray.

ekms377
04-08-2008, 12:28 PM
I concur with dwoodul, change you oil AND filter regularly. It's funny to see at the parts store people buying the fanciest oil on the shelf and then getting the cheapest filter. I am a K&N oil filter person myself.

I agree....most folks overlook the filter when it is more important when swtiching to a syn brand oil. Most regular filters out there don't filter out the smaller dirt particles and that is what causes most of the engine wear.

ekms377
04-08-2008, 12:35 PM
A good article on filtering........

http://gulfcoastfilters.com/1,000,000%20MILES.htm

MetrickMetal
04-08-2008, 01:46 PM
I agree....most folks overlook the filter when it is more important when swtiching to a syn brand oil. Most regular filters out there don't filter out the smaller dirt particles and that is what causes most of the engine wear.


What statistics or tests are you basing your comments about oil filters on. :rider:

DFW_Warrior
04-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Are you saying that you put Rotella through more stress in your VStrom than my 1-ton Chevy Diesel??? I go 5-6K between changes on Rotella as do most diesel folks. Granted.....the filter makes allot of difference as well but Rotella in any bike would be fine. Now that being said.....it is not actually made for motorcycles and will act differently in each bike. I do use Rotella in my dirtbikes as recommended by Rekluse, but I change my oil after every race and the oil looks just like I put it in. Before that, I used an actually tranny fluid made my Bel-Ray.

Until your diesel has a wet clutch with 20 or so plates shearing the oil during every revolution of the motor I'd say it's darn close. Now let me ask you a question. Does your 1-ton hold three quarts of oil or just slightly more?? That's what I thought. Heat combined with all the shearing in motorcycle engines kills oil faster than you can imagine and with only 3 quarts to dissipate that heat, the oil is always coming up short when it comes to transferring it's heat. Your 1-ton with almost 5 gallons of that stuff sloshing around has much more time to cool down before making another pass.

I've found that a true Synthetic holds up to the heat a modern motorcycle produces, better than a highly refined dino oil branded as a synthetic. Use what you wish, but in a bike that sees extended mileage between services I'll stick to a true synthetic. I don't have the luxury to change oil on my Strom after every ride. I'm too busy riding to do that. When you let your Rotella go for 5-7k miles in a street bike let me know how that tranny feels by the end of it.;-)

FDM
04-08-2008, 01:57 PM
Yea, the Amsoil is quite expensive at $6.50 a qt, but it sure is worth it imo.

Where did you find Amsoil for $6.50? On there web sight it shows $9.50 a qt, just wondering, I still have to decide what oil I am going to use after the break in is complete.

Mitral
04-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Why not go one step further and just use the Amsoil filter as well?? :


I thought about it. Particularly for the first change. I buy Wix filters in bulk from www.fleetfilter.com for my autos, so I picked up a few for the bike as well.

Mitral
04-08-2008, 02:08 PM
Where did you find Amsoil for $6.50? On there web sight it shows $9.50 a qt, just wondering, I still have to decide what oil I am going to use after the break in is complete.

I think the web site store front has them at $9.50. You can get them from a local dealer for alot cheaper. Use the search function on the amsoil web site to find folks close to you that are listed as dealers. You should be able to find the 10W40 MCF for under $7/qt.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1070328#Post1070328

FDM
04-08-2008, 02:20 PM
Thanks I'll check it out.

whitesands
04-08-2008, 03:22 PM
With all due respect, even though the diesel has more oil capacity, it won't be an accurate comparison until you also figure in that the engine is much larger as well...It would be one thing if it was the size of a motorcycle engine with a 5 or 6 quart capacity, but you're talking about a 6 to 8 liter engine so the oil capacity argument shouldn't be in the equation...

Diesels have extremely heavy loads placed on them and that's why the oils marketed to them tend to have large amounts of antiwear/acid neutralizing additives..Often more than motorcycle specific oils.

The only oils that I've seen VOA's on that really do have that "special forumlation" is Mobil MX4T or Amsoil...They actually do have substantial additive packages...

But they're not going to be more shear stable because it's a"motorcycle oil" but rather because it's a true synthetic....As alot of you folks already know, Rotella is actually a group III oil which is not a true synthetic but is legally called a synthetic so it's not going to have quite the shear stability of a group IV oil...But, I'm pretty sure the shear stability of Rotella will be just as good if not better than any group III "motorcycle oil"...

whitesands
04-08-2008, 03:59 PM
Here's an email from an engineer at Shell that I found on the Shell forums.


"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple
Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.
All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.


There you have it, the only reason why the current Rotella T 5W40 (rated CI-4) is not JASO spec MA is because it was slightly higher sulfated ash than the JASO spec limit of 1.2% but the oil did pass The JASO MA friction test....The new Rotella 5W 40 CJ-4 rating that's just now getting out on the shelves does meet the sulfated ash requirements of Jaso MA.

treybrad
04-08-2008, 04:01 PM
You can get them from a local dealer for alot cheaper. Use the search function on the amsoil web site to find folks close to you that are listed as dealers. You should be able to find the 10W40 MCF for under $7/qt.

Ok... this is kind of off-topic, but can someone give me the short and sweet on how the Amsoil dealer network works? Is it just an individual who signs up/pays a dealer fee, and then can order product wholesale straight from Amsoil, a la Mary Kay?

I found some 'dealers' nearby, but I want to know what I'm doing before I call them up...

trey

Mitral
04-08-2008, 04:28 PM
can someone give me the short and sweet on how the Amsoil dealer network works? Is it just an individual who signs up/pays a dealer fee, and then can order product wholesale straight from Amsoil, a la Mary Kay?

I found some 'dealers' nearby, but I want to know what I'm doing before I call them up...

trey


It is kinda like the Mary Kay deal. I am not entirely sure what people have to go through to become a dealer, but it ends up being people selling the stuff out of their garage. The guy I purchased my oil from was in his mid 70's with an amsoil sticker on his mailbox. He had about $5K worth of Amsoil products in his garage. A few cases of motorcycle, and alot of cases of auto. Some transmission oil too. Anything out of the ordinary he would have to order.

I called a few places before I found him. Most were personal cells phones that did not answer. Another number and the guys wife answered. She took my name and number for him to return my call. Finally I got a hold of another guy, who was leaving town at that moment. I said I wanted to change the oil today, so I sped off to his house and was there in about 10 mns. If I didnt catch him then I would have had to wait till later in the week.

Anyway, you probably won't find it in any store front. I know of a few places that are small engine repair shops that are also dealers of Amsoil. They use their own store to support the Amsoil product as well. My dad gets his oil from a situation like that.

IMO, it is not the most ideal way to make a purchase, but once the initial ackward contact is first made, it is smooth sailing. They are ussually pretty happy to talk oil and motors, or if you are in a hurry just to make the transaction. Now that I am happy with the Amsoil MCF in the bandit, I will buy an entire case from him next time.

DFW_Warrior
04-08-2008, 04:37 PM
But they're not going to be more shear stable because it's a"motorcycle oil" but rather because it's a true synthetic....As alot of you folks already know, Rotella is actually a group III oil which is not a true synthetic but is legally called a synthetic so it's not going to have quite the shear stability of a group IV oil...But, I'm pretty sure the shear stability of Rotella will be just as good if not better than any group III "motorcycle oil"...

We're speaking the same thing.... that's exactly why I use Amsoil or any "true" synthetic for that reason. If you go out to my garage right now I have two bottles of oil. One is a bottle of regular Mobil 1 syn for the WR and one is a bottle of regular 10-40 Amsoil for the Strom. I use it because it is a true syn, not because of a "motorcycle" label on them.

Yes, diesels are far larger engines, but most of that extra oil is carried in the pan. How come my 5.7L gas motor doesn't use 5 gallons of oil but a 6L diesel does? There's a reason for that if you think about it.;-)

ekms377
04-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Until your diesel has a wet clutch with 20 or so plates shearing the oil during every revolution of the motor I'd say it's darn close. Now let me ask you a question. Does your 1-ton hold three quarts of oil or just slightly more?? That's what I thought. Heat combined with all the shearing in motorcycle engines kills oil faster than you can imagine and with only 3 quarts to dissipate that heat, the oil is always coming up short when it comes to transferring it's heat. Your 1-ton with almost 5 gallons of that stuff sloshing around has much more time to cool down before making another pass.


10 qts......and.....it does have a wet clutch but with 5 plates....but that takes tranny oil......that is why I run the Bel-Ray trany fluid in my 2-smokers.....it is designed for exactly what you said and allot less detergents. As far as Rotella is concerned in a street bike, I wouldn't run it either but I wouldn't recommend against it either. It's good stuff....not Amsoil good but good nonetheless. I typically run Mobil 1.

whitesands
04-08-2008, 06:00 PM
I see what you're saying....My main point was just for folks that may make the mistake of assuming that an oil may be more or less shear stable because it is "car", "diesel, "or "motorcycle" oil...I understand you weren't saying that but alot of folks come to those conclusions....

One thing that is interesting and what many folks don't understand is that the base oil is pretty much the same across the board except for the weights and group...Meaning, there's very little difference between a group II 10W40 base oils no matter what it's going to be marketed for....You're going to find that HTHS rates, shear stability, flashpoint, and pour points are going to be similar across the board for that group no matter which refiner it comes from...Same is true for group III, IV ect ect...After that the major differences are the additives...So a person can pretty much use any 4 stroke gasoline or diesel oil in their motorcycle as long as it is the correct weight and has comparable additive levels to an SG spec JASO MA rated oil...And there are many oils that do this...

whitesands
04-08-2008, 06:09 PM
Here's an example of an oil being marketed for a motorcycle yet has much less antiwear additives than oils selling for half the cost.

Here's a VOA of Castrol ACT>Evo Xtra 4t motorcycle oil
MOLY: 0
BORON: 2
SILICON: 7
SODIUM: 0
CALCIUM: 1619
MAGNESIUM: 7
PHOSPHOROUS: 768
ZINC: 966
SUS VISC. @210F: 78.9
Cst Visc. @100C: 15.24
Flashpoint: 390
TBN: 8.8


By comparison here is Rotella T 15W40 CJ-4
MOLY: 1
BORON: 35
SILICON: 4
CALCIUM: 3065
PHOSPHORUS: 989
ZINC: 1208
Flashpoint: >405
sus viscosity@210F: 78.1
TBN: 10.3

Rotella 5W40 (synthetic actually a group III) As you can see, both Rotella oils have a much stronger antiwear/acid neutralizing additive package and a higher flashpoint than Castrol's "specially forumulated" motorcycle oil also without friction modifiers....There are many other "motorcycle oils" that have weaker additive packages as well...
MOLY: 0
BORON: 0
SILICON: 5
SODIUM: 2
CALCIUM: 3204
MAGNESIUM: 9
PHOSPHOROUS: 1249
ZINC: 1403
SUS VISC. @210F: 75.4
Cst Visc. @100C: 14.37
Flashpoint: 425
TBN: 12.5

DFW_Warrior
04-08-2008, 06:34 PM
One thing that is interesting and what many folks don't understand is that the base oil is pretty much the same across the board except for the weights and group...Meaning, there's very little difference between a group II 10W40 base oils no matter what it's going to be marketed for....You're going to find that HTHS rates, shear stability, flashpoint, and pour points are going to be similar across the board for that group no matter which refiner it comes from...Same is true for group III, IV ect ect...After that the major differences are the additives...So a person can pretty much use any 4 stroke gasoline or diesel oil in their motorcycle as long as it is the correct weight and has comparable additive levels to an SG spec JASO MA rated oil...And there are many oils that do this...

I agree with you 100%. Kind of like gasoline, the basic formula is pretty much the same across the board. It's the additive package that each manufacturer puts in that makes them different.

flb_78
04-08-2008, 10:45 PM
I use conventional oil. I used the Mobil 1 15w50 syn and Amsoil syn. no difference for me. Currently, Im running Chevron Delo 400 15w40 diesel oil. Got it from work for free. Now that I'm working for John Deere, I'll be running John Deere's Plus 50 15w40 oil.

SoCalBandit
04-08-2008, 11:12 PM
I just changed my oil at 300 miles and decided to put in the Amsoil MCF 10W40. I actually went to walmart first to purchase Rotella synthetic, but just couldn't get myself to do it, despite all the great oil analysis'.

Yea, the Amsoil is quite expensive at $6.50 a qt, but it sure is worth it imo. I does shift much nicer, and the piece of mind is priceless. I may do an oil analysis myself after this batch just to see how things are doing....

BTW, anyone have trouble with their oil filter the first time? I had to pound a screw driver through the filter and turn it almost two full revolutions before it was loose enough to turn it by hand. Do they have King Kong putting these things on in the factory? So much for using a torque wrench.

I use Wix filters in my cars, and decided to use them on the bike as well.

Is that AMSOIL MCF 10/40 full synthetic? If it is, I'd drain it and put back in Dino oil untill you have more miles on the motor....the rings may not have fully seated yet (depending on how you're breaking it in) and you "could" have engine probs later.
Yeah, my oil filter was REAL tight on my first change too....so much for dealer "prep"

SoCalBandit
04-08-2008, 11:16 PM
Here's an example of an oil being marketed for a motorcycle yet has much less antiwear additives than oils selling for half the cost.

Here's a VOA of Castrol ACT>Evo Xtra 4t motorcycle oil
MOLY: 0
BORON: 2
SILICON: 7
SODIUM: 0
CALCIUM: 1619
MAGNESIUM: 7
PHOSPHOROUS: 768
ZINC: 966
SUS VISC. @210F: 78.9
Cst Visc. @100C: 15.24
Flashpoint: 390
TBN: 8.8


By comparison here is Rotella T 15W40 CJ-4
MOLY: 1
BORON: 35
SILICON: 4
CALCIUM: 3065
PHOSPHORUS: 989
ZINC: 1208
Flashpoint: >405
sus viscosity@210F: 78.1
TBN: 10.3

Rotella 5W40 (synthetic actually a group III) As you can see, both Rotella oils have a much stronger antiwear/acid neutralizing additive package and a higher flashpoint than Castrol's "specially forumulated" motorcycle oil also without friction modifiers....There are many other "motorcycle oils" that have weaker additive packages as well...
MOLY: 0
BORON: 0
SILICON: 5
SODIUM: 2
CALCIUM: 3204
MAGNESIUM: 9
PHOSPHOROUS: 1249
ZINC: 1403
SUS VISC. @210F: 75.4
Cst Visc. @100C: 14.37
Flashpoint: 425
TBN: 12.5

For me the million dollar question is....do those "slight" differences mean MORE engine wear and how fast?? What I mean is will I get 100,000 miles out of one motor with one type of oil OR only 60,000 with another??
THAT'S what someone needs to do a study on.

DFW_Warrior
04-09-2008, 05:50 AM
For me the million dollar question is....do those "slight" differences mean MORE engine wear and how fast?? What I mean is will I get 100,000 miles out of one motor with one type of oil OR only 60,000 with another??
THAT'S what someone needs to do a study on.

It's just my opinion, but I'd say that either way your oil will be fine and most likely it will be other things on the bike that cause it to fail. Most bikes are sold because the owner gets bored long before the motor fails.:mrgreen:

hetkind
04-09-2008, 07:25 AM
Discussing oil is like discussing religion...we all have different views.

However, for most routine uses, I like Rotella (old trucks, cars, and misc equipment), our newest vehicles use 5w-20 so we are using a mobil 1 product, and for five our our bikes, good ol' castrol GTX 20w-50 with the fancier Act-EVO for Jill K1200R with the wet clutch and intergral transmission.

The wix filters seem to be made better than frams, but not as easy to get, since I can get frams at walmart with groceries. I would rather stock one type of motor oil and one brand of filters but we need three different automotivel filters (luckily both old dodge trucks used the giant FORD style v-8 filter, motorcraft FL-1, or fram PH-8), three different filters for the six motorcycles, and a cute little spin on filter for our John Deere mower with the kohler engine.

I can fill up a five gallon bucket with waste oil very quickly...

Howard

Sheep
04-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Is that AMSOIL MCF 10/40 full synthetic? If it is, I'd drain it and put back in Dino oil untill you have more miles on the motor....the rings may not have fully seated yet (depending on how you're breaking it in) and you "could" have engine probs later.
Yeah, my oil filter was REAL tight on my first change too....so much for dealer "prep"

All Amsoil which is labeled synth is a full synth. MCF & MCV are their two multi-vis offerings for 4-S bike engines, air or water-cooled. There are a number of automakers that put full synthetic in the motors right at the factory: Corvette, Caddy, GTO, Porsche, BMW etc. Motors these days are built differently than even 20yrs ago so apparently there are no seating issues. Personally, I still prefer to use dino for at least 1000mi (car), but 300mi for a bike should be OK because they normally rev 2-4 times as fast as car engines under normal conditions. For Suzuki the first 600mi is key service, so I didn't use synth until then. I did one dino change at 100mi, then synth at 600.

SoCalBandit
04-09-2008, 10:17 PM
but 300mi for a bike SHOULD BE OK because they normally rev 2-4 times as fast as car engines under normal conditions. For Suzuki the first 600mi is key service, so I didn't use synth until then. I did one dino change at 100mi, then synth at 600.

I think the key words are SHOULD BE OK....I wouldn't want to take a chance with my bike so I'm switching to Mobil 1 after 2,000 miles.
Why risk it?

Someone could call SUZUKI and ask them when they reccommend to switch.

SoCalBandit
04-09-2008, 10:34 PM
It's just my opinion, but I'd say that either way your oil will be fine and most likely it will be other things on the bike that cause it to fail. Most bikes are sold because the owner gets bored long before the motor fails.:mrgreen:
I agree.

I'd like to see a comparo though with like 10 different brands of oil, some Dino, some Full Synth in the same model bikes and ran for the equivelent of 100,000 miles and then tear down the engines and measure the engine wear.

I remember reading quite a few years ago when SLICK 50 was popular about a test they did with New York City Taxi cabs.
They took a fleet of Cabs, put SLICK 50 and oil in half and the other half just regular Dino oil. They changed the oil every 3,000 miles on all the cabs and after like 100,000 miles or so tore apart the engines and measured for wear.

There was NO significant wear difference between the cabs with SLICK50 and the Cabs with just Dino oil.

So I personally think that if you use ANY name brand oil and change it regularily you're safe.
Then again, I know a guy who's been using Wally World oil in his vehicles for years and has NEVER had any engine issues. He just changes the oil every 5K.......so maybe it's all about how OFTEN you change the oil and NOT about the brand.

Mitral
04-09-2008, 10:35 PM
I am still probably going to do some shorter OCI's even with the Amsoil. Yea, its pissing away oil, but I've done alot worse in other areas!! Plus, I dont really subscribe to the idea that synthetic isnt good for a new engine until after a certain point of break in. Just frequent oil change intervals during the break in period.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/NewBike.html#BreakIn

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

We could argue these two views to equal the mega thread, on still not reach a consensus. However, these two sights do bring up some valid points....

whitesands
04-09-2008, 11:08 PM
For me the million dollar question is....do those "slight" differences mean MORE engine wear and how fast?? What I mean is will I get 100,000 miles out of one motor with one type of oil OR only 60,000 with another??
THAT'S what someone needs to do a study on.


Under the same conditions with the oil changed frequently there would probably be very little difference...But there is a big difference in price...While the difference in the level of additives may appear trivial, the weaker castrol goes for a substantially higher price....As do many other conventional motorcycle oils such as GN4, Suzuki performance 4 ect ect....The main thing is alot of folks feel cozy because it says motorcycle on the label but often they buying an inferior product for a substantially higher price...A VOA such as these settles it.

Sheep
04-10-2008, 12:35 AM
I agree.

I'd like to see a comparo though with like 10 different brands of oil, some Dino, some Full Synth in the same model bikes and ran for the equivelent of 100,000 miles and then tear down the engines and measure the engine wear.............


That would not be good science using different bikes. You'd actually have to tear them down before starting to measure the bores, the bearings, the cam lobes/bearings, etc etc. There are no two (10) motors which are exactly the same. So you'd have a bunch of variables right away you can't control. Not all engines operate at same temperature. Not all operate at exact same F/A ratios. How would you get all bikes shifted the exact same way? Were all built using the exact same torque wrenches? More variables, so that's why oil tests are actually not done in a motor but under controlled lab conditions which simulate situations where oils must perform.

The 4 primary standardized tests done by independent labs for the API where all variables are removed: the 4-ball wear test, NOACK volatility, pour point, & high temperature sheer.

SoCalBandit
04-10-2008, 12:52 AM
That would not be good science using different bikes. You'd actually have to tear them down before starting to measure the bores, the bearings, the cam lobes/bearings, etc etc. There are no two (10) motors which are exactly the same. So you'd have a bunch of variables right away you can't control. Not all engines operate at same temperature. Not all operate at exact same F/A ratios. How would you get all bikes shifted the exact same way? Were all built using the exact same torque wrenches? More variables, so that's why oil tests are actually not done in a motor but under controlled lab conditions which simulate situations where oils must perform.

The 4 primary standardized tests done by independent labs for the API where all variables are removed: the 4-ball wear test, NOACK volatility, pour point, & high temperature sheer.

So you don't think the New York Cab test is a good comparo either? Same principles would apply.

Reagarding your sig line.........why will you "never buy another cruiser"??

DFW_Warrior
04-10-2008, 05:46 AM
Reagarding your sig line.........why will you "never buy another cruiser"??
LOL... I'll never buy another one either. I've had two and I promise that number will never rise to 3.

Mitral
04-10-2008, 06:27 PM
why will you "never buy another cruiser"??


Duh... because it's a cruiser.......

I had a VC750C Manga back in the mid 90's. I remember riding out to California from Minneapolis one year. I went down to the LA area and found Angeles Crest Highway. For those who don't know, it is a great road in the LA area that was made for motorbikes. Nice twisties, fantastic views, and black pavement as smooth as glass. I take the Magna into the first turn, and scrape the footpeg all the way around the corner. Next corner I take even harder, and I scrape the exhaust pipe. After about 7 corners, and numerous sportbikes passing me, I felt like riding that **** bike off of one of the cliffs.

For me, a motorcycle is all about engineering, and inexpensive performance. The exact opposite of what cruisers stand for.

I don't recall a day I regretted buying the VF750 Mangna instead of the VFR 750 Interceptor. Oh well, live and learn. Much happier with the GSF1250 Bandit now :rider:

suzukijo
04-10-2008, 07:50 PM
oil is slippery

rworm
04-10-2008, 08:28 PM
OIL??????????????????????????????????
rworm
Just wunderin?

suzukijo
04-10-2008, 09:00 PM
and goes in the engine

Marc B
04-10-2008, 09:21 PM
The most stress i see heavy duty diesel pickups under is the way they floor them from red light to red light, granted many are hauling and working but for the most part they are blowing around town and on these co.roads WFO, I own a chevy HD gas and i cant afford to drive it at 3.12 a gal. deisel is over 4.00 a gal:giveup: Back to oil, Ive been running mobil1 full syn race. from auto zone at 8.95 qrt. then go to another auto parts to get the wix filter, change by 1700 mi.

SoCalBandit
04-11-2008, 01:28 AM
Duh... because it's a cruiser.......

I had a VC750C Manga back in the mid 90's. I remember riding out to California from Minneapolis one year. I went down to the LA area and found Angeles Crest Highway. For those who don't know, it is a great road in the LA area that was made for motorbikes. Nice twisties, fantastic views, and black pavement as smooth as glass. I take the Magna into the first turn, and scrape the footpeg all the way around the corner. Next corner I take even harder, and I scrape the exhaust pipe. After about 7 corners, and numerous sportbikes passing me, I felt like riding that **** bike off of one of the cliffs.

For me, a motorcycle is all about engineering, and inexpensive performance. The exact opposite of what cruisers stand for.

I don't recall a day I regretted buying the VF750 Mangna instead of the VFR 750 Interceptor. Oh well, live and learn. Much happier with the GSF1250 Bandit now :rider:

So......you bought a cruiser "thinking" you could ride it like a Sport bike??
That does deserve a "Duh" :mrgreen:

Mitral
04-11-2008, 04:46 PM
So......you bought a cruiser "thinking" you could ride it like a Sport bike??
That does deserve a "Duh" :mrgreen:

Let's just say I rode it more spirited than the design would allow. :rider:

suzukijo
04-11-2008, 07:07 PM
Let's just say I rode it more spirited than the design would allow. :rider:

that aint much......

Marc B
04-11-2008, 10:23 PM
This might explain why he now owns a Sport, Just a gut feeling.