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View Full Version : H7 Xenon bulb systems! Pros & Cons?


RatBat
03-25-2008, 07:06 AM
Hi all,
First time I post here; I found very good explanations & pics here. It's amazing how knowledgeable people are! :bow: So here are my first set of questions for all of you Bandit lovers :dude: ; (I could not find any posts about this subject on this forum ) :pray:

-What are the Pros and Cons about installing a Xenon bulb system on the Bandit 1250? Install only low beam or both hi/low system exist? Would the pass button still work?

-What about the fact that the lights are switched off when starting? Would it need to be taken out not to damage the Xenon system?

Thx, :chug:

RatBat (my real french name is Réal, from Montréal, Québec, Canada) :rider:

Owner of a Bandit 1200 (05) but will trade in for the Bandit 1250 (08) soon! :trust:

DaveC
03-25-2008, 07:47 AM
As long as the bulb well fit the socket it well work as stock.(H7)The Xenon gas bulbs burn at a higher temp which generates the whiter light but use the same wattage. Do not handle the bulb, if you do use alchhol to clean it. The contaminates on your finger well cause hot spots which shorten bulb life. Use a paper towel, rubber gloves or anything that is oil and chemical free.

treybrad
03-25-2008, 08:29 AM
If you're talking about HID setups, we discussed them in the ridiculous Mega-Thread:

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17255&page=81

The last two posts on that page, and then the discussion trickles into the next few pages. Brass even posted some pics of his.

trey

Brass
03-25-2008, 09:26 AM
Rat,

The HID kit works very well and will help to make your night riding more enjoyable.

The Pros:
Much better lighting, at least a 30% increase (my best guess) over stock.
Relatively easy install, no worse than an aftermarket accessory light kit such as Piaa (but with better results).
When a cager leaves his high beams on, blinding you and you hit the high beam, he WILL notice and switch his off.

The Cons:
You will have cagers flash you.
You’ll need to buy a set of relays and wire it to a keyed power source to avoid the starter issue (not really a con but it adds time to the install)
Due to the design of the factory bulb clamp, a spacer needs to be made to secure the bulb in place. I simply used a couple large flat washers and oversized the holes with a dremel to make it fit.
High beam “flashing” is not recommended. (You can still turn the high beam on and then off just don’t cycle it)

Since adding the kit to the bike I’ve also ordered kits for my other vehicles.

Pics I posted in Mega-Thread..... http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17255&page=83

windman
03-25-2008, 02:04 PM
Brass

Could you do a small tuto for HID installation, electrical wise (relay, starter bypass witch color wire to tap in etc)

Will appreciate

thanks

RatBat
03-25-2008, 03:33 PM
As I thought, this is the right forum for me !:bigokay:

I would really like to keep in touch with you windman! Since I'm in Brossard and your in St-Julie, I could learn from you! (450-678-8141 or rjf@videotron.ca) ...if it's cool with you of course!:party:

Keep the info comin' guys ! :hail:

RatBat

RatBat
03-25-2008, 03:49 PM
FYI,
I went to a dealer today (to negotiate the new Bandit) and he informed me that the HID install is NOT a good idea!:pound: The tech there informed me that I would overheat the electrical system and the housing unit, on top of voiding my warranty for the bike :doh: He finished by saying that, oh ya you could probably do it, but we won't mod it :nana: because it's a brand new bike!

So now what ? :box:

windman
03-25-2008, 04:50 PM
FYI,
I went to a dealer today (to negotiate the new Bandit) and he informed me that the HID install is NOT a good idea!:pound: The tech there informed me that I would overheat the electrical system and the housing unit, on top of voiding my warranty for the bike :doh: He finished by saying that, oh ya you could probably do it, but we won't mod it :nana: because it's a brand new bike!

So now what ? :box:

It a reversible mod...so if something happen...you just remove it and sent your bike to the dealer...:mrgreen:

windman
03-25-2008, 04:51 PM
As I thought, this is the right forum for me !:bigokay:

I would really like to keep in touch with you windman! Since I'm in Brossard and your in St-Julie, I could learn from you! (450-678-8141 or rjf@videotron.ca) ...if it's cool with you of course!:party:

Keep the info comin' guys ! :hail:

RatBat

pas de problème...

RatBat
03-25-2008, 05:30 PM
Excelent merci windman! Envoie-moi un e-mail pour avoir le tien et j'aurai quelques questions pour toi.

Merci
Réal :thumb:

Brass
03-25-2008, 05:52 PM
Rat,

The bit about overheating the electrical system is not an issue if you wire it through a relay. In fact wiring it that way puts less stress on the factory wiring than using a regular halogen bulb and requires no mods or splicing into the stock harness. Remember they are 35W bulbs (55W stock).

As for the housing, I can't say what either the Xenon or halogen bulbs run temperature wise but they used in thousands of converted cars, trucks and now bikes without any issues that I’ve heard of. The set I purchased have a plastic base, so if anything was going to melt, wouldn’t the base that physically contacts the glass bulb be the first thing to go? If heat was in fact an issue I would expect to see a warning on the package, “you could melt your car if use this bulb”.

The dealer could and likely would say that adding ANY lighting accessory would void the warranty. If seeing that deer standing in the middle of the road at night means I have to void my warranty, then that's what I'll do. Have you ever hit a deer on a bike? It hurts.

Personally, I still think it’s worth it. But that is just my opinion.

Jesse H
03-25-2008, 05:55 PM
Brass, could you take a picture of your light pattern/cutoff? I'm willing to bet it's shooting out LOTS of glare, hence why cagers are constantly high beaming you.

I'm a big fan of HID technology, just not when it isn't done safely/properly.

Brass
03-25-2008, 06:23 PM
I've tried taking pic before but my camera just won't cut it.

Cagers high beamed me before I installed the HID kit, it doesn't happen any more frequently now.

If you look at my previously posted pics you can see the cut off line on the wall. It should be noted that the headlight wasn't adjusted at that point.

etcthorne
03-26-2008, 06:35 AM
Hey Traybad, be careful about busting on the mega-thread (the thread from **** :rofl: ). I tactfully complained about it in another thread, stating that I loved and hated it at the same time. I'm still smarting over the verbal beating I took for that one little faux paux :eek2:


LONG LIVE THE MEGA-THREAD! :clap:

treybrad
03-26-2008, 08:32 AM
Brass, could you take a picture of your light pattern/cutoff? I'm willing to bet it's shooting out LOTS of glare, hence why cagers are constantly high beaming you.

FWIW, I have never had a cage or anyone else flash me since installing the HID's. I aimed them very carefully, re-aiming after several short test rides...

I paid special attention to reflective road signs to get a good idea of how much scattered light there is... it's much less than any other vehicle I've retrofitted HID's to.

Brass, maybe yours are aimed a little high?

trey

Brass
03-26-2008, 08:46 AM
I'm not getting flashed any more now with the HID's installed. Mostly it happens when ridding 2-up cresting a hill not far from where I live. But even with the bike's factory adjusted headlight (pointed at the front fender) I would get flashed there. The difference now is that when I hit the high beam cagers dim their lights in response, they didn't before.

treybrad
03-26-2008, 09:00 AM
I'm not getting flashed any more now with the HID's installed. Mostly it happens when ridding 2-up cresting a hill not far from where I live. But even with the bike's factory adjusted headlight (pointed at the front fender) I would get flashed there. The difference now is that when I hit the high beam cagers dim their lights in response, they didn't before.

Ah, fair enough. I went 2-up, loaded down and had to ride in the dark for a while the other weekend... No one flashed me but, I probably deserved it.

Cresting hills is another time I've thought I might have a flash coming... there is just SO MUCH light output, for the short time they are aimed high because of the hill, it's probably more noticeable...

I'm sure people are used to it by now, with so many cars w/ HID.. unless you have some kind of auto-leveling system, you can't stop that...

trey

Brass
03-26-2008, 09:09 AM
The hill in question is long and slow to come over. Anything more than the light output of a Zippo lighter will get someone flashing you.

DaveC
03-26-2008, 09:49 AM
I thought the question was about Xenon gas halogen , not HID which is a completly differant light source.
BTW HID uses LESS current than standard halogen
More info here (http://www.halcyon.net/lights/hid-faq.shtml)

When in doubt: google, ask or yahoo:trust:

DaveC
03-26-2008, 09:53 AM
price performanc the Xenon gas halogen is a good light with suprior lighting to the standard halogen bulb. HID is cost prohibitive for us cheap skates (http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/97.html)

Brass
03-26-2008, 11:42 AM
Cost have come down a lot. I'm not trying to plug a supplier but here is one that was pulled off eBay without any searching for better pricing.

http://item.express.ebay.com/HID-Xenon-Conversion-Kit-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-9004-9006-9007_W0QQitemZ220216813185QQihZ012QQtrZexpQQcmdZEx pressItem

I don't think there is anything out there that gives you the same bang for your buck, for lighting that is.
Have you looked at the cost of Piaa accessorie lights lately?

Brass
03-26-2008, 11:51 AM
I thought the question was about Xenon gas halogen , not HID which is a completly differant light source.
BTW HID uses LESS current than standard halogen
More info here (http://www.halcyon.net/lights/hid-faq.shtml)

When in doubt: google, ask or yahoo:trust:

An interesting thing to note from the link you posted is that they state the HID bulb has a lower heat output than a halogen bulb (from that manufacturer of that particular bulb)
I guess we shouldn't worry then about melting bulb housings. ;-)

DaveC
03-26-2008, 10:36 PM
An interesting thing to note from the link you posted is that they state the HID bulb has a lower heat output than a halogen bulb (from that manufacturer of that particular bulb)
I guess we shouldn't worry then about melting bulb housings. ;-)

If an electrical device uses less wattage with the same voltage then your heat output follows this path. It is Ohms Law, it cannot be broken, if it is then weird stuff well be happening!

They ignite the gas inside the bulb, much like a flourecent light and get the gas to burn at a temp which happens to be at 6000 Kelvin. This temprature range for gas gives a blueish tinted light, you can see the same light when you look at a "daylight" flourecent bulb. Xenon gas filled halogen element bulbs burn the gas at around 5000 kelvin from what I can tell from looking at the color. It is a 'white' light bordering on the blue spectrum.

Brass
03-27-2008, 09:03 AM
I think you are confusing color temperature with heat output.

For example most common fluorescent lights have a color temperature of around 5000 Kelvin but their heat output is only about 170F.

If that same fluorescent bulb actually had a heat output of 5000K, equal to about 8500 Fahrenheit, the glass would melt within seconds.

Sheep
03-29-2008, 09:58 PM
I've found that simply changing two things improved night visibility perhaps 40%: re-adjusting the factory aim of the headlights, then installing PIAA Extreme White halogens. No fussing with relays or concern of overheating, and the color temp is perfect. Bulbs not only increased "down the road" visibility but far better brilliance side-to-side.

Unless one must do a LOT of night riding, personally don't feel the HID's are worth it. There so many wild critters (some very large) that constantly dart across roadways after dark at last second, I can usually wait 'til daylight. Once almost had my head taken off with a deer suddenly bounding from a 6' embankment right across my lane at eye level at night at 65mph.:eek2:

GregH
03-30-2008, 10:58 AM
Once almost had my head taken off with a deer suddenly bounding from a 6' embankment right across my lane at eye level at night at 65mph.
You've got to wonder who would have been the "road kill" on that one! :giveup:

Brass
03-30-2008, 10:07 PM
You've got to wonder who would have been the "road kill" on that one! :giveup:

All the more reason to have the best possible lighting you can legally have on a bike.
I've hit a deer at night on a bike and strongly recommend that you don't try it. It's better to get the best lighting you can and see them.

windman
03-30-2008, 10:52 PM
Rat,


You’ll need to buy a set of relays and wire it to a keyed power source to avoid the starter issue (not really a con but it adds time to the install)


Could we just instead short the 2 wires at the starter switch ( B/O and G/B )

Here's the diagram:

http://www.snapdrive.net/qs/88254d9381ca

Sheep
03-31-2008, 02:08 AM
All the more reason to have the best possible lighting you can legally have on a bike.
I've hit a deer at night on a bike and strongly recommend that you don't try it. It's better to get the best lighting you can and see them.

Sincerely doubt there was any lighting solution in that circumstance which would have illuminated the blind spot above. Deer do very stupid :loco: things at night!

Brass
03-31-2008, 08:35 AM
The deer in question looked to be slowly crossing the road. At the time I was riding a Honda Hawk GT and I simply couldn't see it until I was on her. I had enough time to start to give the bars a push and still ended up hitting its hind quarter. The deer and I were both lucky to walk away from it but there were bruises to show for it.
Since then I've been adding extra lighting to my bikes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to light up the night like a Baja race buggy, I'm just trying to make sure that I have every possible chance to see that deer,dog,drunken teenager on the road and avoid hitting it.

windman
03-31-2008, 06:55 PM
I checked about having the main light stay on will starting the engine....

In fact ,as per the wiring diagram, shorting the Black/orange and Green/black together on the starter switch will keep the main light on all the time when the key is at the ON position. So I don't see the need for a relay...unless there's something I don't figure out in electricity.:confused:

The only thing...I don't know why but on my Canadian model the color code was not the same. I didn't have those two wires. I had to short the Black/yellow and Black/white together from the starter switch.

commuter boy
03-31-2008, 10:46 PM
Ordered my HID kit today from http://www.baysideperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=325_1606&products_id=9261

They also sell a dual beam relay kit for an additional $20. I can't really build one for that cheap.

Good Canuck aftermarket supplier, they use US distributors instead of the overpriced Canadian ones so their prices are great.

I was thinking about running the low beam off of the city lights. I'll post up some before and afters when they come in.