The China Bike Syndrom

After poking fun at the BMW knock off, I started looking into the Chin bike. There are a plathoria of them, I have been browsing the Chinariders.net forum but have had little luck with it. Apparently like this site you have to lurk a while to find information.
I have seen dual sport for as little as $999 plus $199 shipping. Honda clone Roketa and Terminator?. The Q-Link is the pricest at $2G it is the Suzuki clone. I would like to give it a go and the Roketa is cheap, Lifan about half again as much then the Q.
What I want it for is trail riding. Gravel roads, cow trails with my friends. I may even give a wet commute a shot Lots of opinions but so little real world on these bikes. There seems to be some jetting issues, weak engine mounts, parts seem to be a problem for some but not others, very odd. I think I well continue to monitor the situation. I still want a Ural, Buell, Sportster. I just need a new toy!

DaveC said:

I just need a new toy!

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Well, I beg you not to buy one built by slave laborers under the boot of a communist government.

There's a reason Chinese crap is so cheap: Human suffering.

(Just sayin'.)

See:

http://www.chinariders.net

http://www.mychinamoto.com/

http://www.americanlifan.com/lifan3/customer/

HTH,
Tom

Here's mine, a Hi-Bird 250cc.


There were a few minor issues that I worked out while assembling the bike. Nothing serious at all. It has been running great! An equivalent Japanese bike would have cost three to four times as much as my Hi-Bird.

Tim, China motorbikes are made in ISO certified factories (at least mine is) that uses state of the art CNC machines. My bike is also EPA and Carb certified. The company is privately owned. The factory workers are not slave. They are employees who get paid a very reasonable salary that they can use to improve the standard of living of their family.
________
Dodge Copperhead

texasnh said:

Here's mine, a Hi-Bird 250cc.

There were a few minor issues that I worked out while assembling the bike. Nothing serious at all. It has been running great! An equivalent Japanese bike would have cost three to four times as much as my Hi-Bird.

Tim, China motorbikes are made in ISO certified factories (at least mine is) that uses state of the art CNC machines. My bike is also EPA and Carb certified. The company is privately owned. The factory workers are not slave. They are employees who get paid a very reasonable salary that they can use to improve the standard of living of their family.

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That looks like my 200 except for the engine looks like it might be OHV, nice! I hadn't seen one of the 250s with a rack. I got my Diamo FOR the rack and use it to haul things off road on my place, like feed corn, feeders, stands, even drug a hog trap down there with it.

How much speed can you get out of that 250? I had to regear the Diamo, found a sprocket for an old honda SL175 IIRC that fit after I drilled the holes out a bit. It'd hit 50 and was winding out at least to red line. No tach, but it was over reving. I get about 60 out of it now and it's still low geared enough for tight off road riding, barely.

I'm in my 4th year with the Diamo and it runs great. I've been beating up body plastic and ripped the seat with a lace eye on my hunting boot, but it still runs great. I had a few minor problems setting it up, too. I'd advise first thing to toss the inner tubes (delicate and don't last long) and buy new brand name ones and tighten the spokes on the wheels while your at it. Part fit and welds and wiring aren't really up to Japanese standards, but it hasn't given me a problem and I give it NO mercy. Thing's got mud all over it right now. I need to wash it. Finally dried out down there a little bit.

I ride it the 25 miles down to my place on 2 lane FM roads occasionally to tend my feeders or the hog trap, but take something else when the wind is blowing like it has been. A heavy head wind sees you laying out at 55 on the thing like Chris Carr on the Springfield straight. 80 mpg in town, but out on the highway near WFO it drops to 70 max. Nice alternative at 3.50 a gallon for around town trips and chores paying bills, running to the bank, and such. I've got 700 bucks in mine out of the crate. Where can ya get a deal like that in a Japanese shop even USED anymore?

BTW, ISO doesn't impress me at all. I worked in an ISO certified plant. Whadda joke. It's a certification drummed up by the industry to make you think they worry about other than profits, basically. We had a 14000 ISO for environmental and 9000 ISO for "quality". Everyone, even the shift supervisor, ran outside and hid while the ISO guys were auditing, the few times they did. Only the board operators had to mess with 'em. They made you do stupid stuff like memorize verbatim the "ISO Creed" which I never bothered to memorize nor did anyone else. You had to know a few control limits for things that you had to know when running your unit anyway, no biggy there.

That said, there's a lot more motorcycle for your money in most of the Chinese stuff than with something like a Ural. I might, if I had a lot of time and a soft foam lined iron plate in the seat of my pants, ride my Diamo to Aridzona with little worry about mechanical problems other than maybe a flat tire. I don't know if I'd have that much confidence in a Ural and they ain't cheap. I don't know about Urals. I'm still watching those things like Dave is the China stuff.

You have to be careful with the China stuff, though. One brand I know is just plain junk is SunL. I don't know what all they make other than small ATVs and bikes, but it's all junk. I've got an ATV out there right now I think is a SunL, not sure, can't find a brand on it. It has the plastic still on the seat and smells brand new and it's chunked a cam chain, locked up, valves bent like a pretzel. It looks like a Honda 50cc engine, but it ain't. I don't even know if that thing make a full 360 crank rotation. Might have had the cam out of time when it left the factory. They bought this thing off a guy on the side of the road, so lord knows where they'd get parts if it were possible. Stick to the major distributors or licensed factory importers like Lifan and at least you'll get parts. I've bought parts from Diamo, they have most everything. They're located in Sugar Land, drove up there to pick up the bikes when I bought 'em.

Jack Giesecke said:

<snip>BTW, ISO doesn't impress me at all. I worked in an ISO certified plant. Whadda joke. It's a certification drummed up by the industry to make you think they worry about other than profits, basically. We had a 14000 ISO for environmental and 9000 ISO for "quality". Everyone, even the shift supervisor, ran outside and hid while the ISO guys were auditing, the few times they did. Only the board operators had to mess with 'em. They made you do stupid stuff like memorize verbatim the "ISO Creed" which I never bothered to memorize nor did anyone else. You had to know a few control limits for things that you had to know when running your unit anyway, no biggy there.</snip>

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Jack,you are a very wise man. ISO,or ASA anything does not make for a better product or a better company.But,to do work for some companies,you gotta be certified.......what a crock it is. Somewhere along the line,someone has sold these large companies a load,and all I can see that it has done is increase the cost of doing business!

Jack Giesecke said:

One brand I know is just plain junk is SunL. I don't know what all they make other than small ATVs and bikes, but it's all junk.

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Wellllll, actually SunL (US headquaters in Irving, Texas) makes nothing, and that's a common thing with Chinese motorcycles in the USA.

SunL is a private label importer that spec's and buys machines from various Chinese factories. I was in ATVDiscounters the other day and they had a SunL branded 250cc road bike manufactured by Shanghai Shenke Motorcycle Co., a SunL branded 200cc dual sport manufactured by Zhejiang Leike Machinery Industry Co.* and a SunL branded 125cc scooter manufactured by Taizhou Zhongneng Motorcycle Co. Even if any of these factories are any good, if SunL contracts them to "build a bike that meets this rock bottom price point", then that's what they'll do. And then even if the bike is any good, there's the whole spares and support issue.

The only Chinese motorcycles I know of that are sold in the USA under the actual manufacturer's name through a factory authorized distributor are American Lifan, Hi-Bird and Zongshen. There are probably others, but most Chinese bikes on the market now are sold by private label importers.

Tom

*"This is a Leike motorcycle."
"Are all the bolts tight? Maybe it's a gasket problem."

Well, yeah, just sayin' stay away from SunL.

The "dealer" you usually see on a street corner selling little 50cc ATVs or mini bikes usually has SonL. Seems to be a common thing.

I have just one complaint about my china bike so far: the gas tank is tiny. I get just 70 miles before reaching reserve. I need a bigger tank. I doubt I could call up Acerbis and ask for a 4-gal tank for my HI BIRD. Does anyone in Houston have a lot of tanks in stock?
________
Creampie Thai

texasnh said:

I have just one complaint about my china bike so far: the gas tank is tiny. I get just 70 miles before reaching reserve. I need a bigger tank. I doubt I could call up Acerbis and ask for a 4-gal tank for my HI BIRD. Does anyone in Houston have a lot of tanks in stock?

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I learned early on the hard way that I had no reserve position on my petcock. I have a 1.5 gallon tank, though, and would prefer larger. I'd like to find an alternative, too, but heck, ain't like I ride long distance on it. If I have to go very far, I take the SV or the Wing.

Bigger tanks are coming. QingQi(Qlink) has a 2.5gal and the Shineray GY7 has a 5.6gal tank. Both are 200cc's and 250's will be available soon.

CC

Great info Jack Giesecke. Might do this for another dirtbike or d/p.

Hey, guys! Thanks to everyone for your opinions and helpful advice. Myself and a couple of buddies are in the market for Chinese dual sports 250cc or larger. We've had a heck of a time getting good information. Rumors and speculations abound. We don't know what brands to seriously consider, or where we can get the cheapest price. Are any of the brands known to be of high quality?

The weakest link in the China Bike is the case hardening of the steel
which is about half the strength of other bikes,

dont ask me how i know.

E.G if you leave your chain too loose for a while you can strip both sprockets

Does anyone have any experience with the Lifan (or other brand) ATV's. I've had the hankering to get a couple of ATV's to take out to Broken Bow on the weekends, but don't have the money to lay out for a nice Yamaha or something.

gene7 said:

We've had a heck of a time getting good information. Rumors and speculations abound. We don't know what brands to seriously consider, or where we can get the cheapest price. Are any of the brands known to be of high quality?

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There are literally hundreds of Chinese branded motorbikes available and keeping track of them is mind-boggling. Some of them are real manufacturers with production facilities while other are assemblers who spec parts from the manufacturers. Nevertheless, there are a couple brands who seem to be focusing more on quality and innovation in the market.

- My two QingQi's -


- Inside the QM200GY-2 -


- At the wheels -


The company I have the most experience with is QingQi. I bought their "QM200GY-2" at the end of last year and have been very happy with it. QingQi actually produces Suzuki's under 250cc bikes like the DR200 so some of you may already ride one. I later toured their factory and , now having toured a total of four, was happy with what I saw.

The 200GY-2 gives you a Suzuki DR200 engine/carb/frame/wheels/wiring/switches but the plastics are different. Panels are color-in plastic, of good thickness and easy to maintain. The overall style I think is not bad...nice but not outstanding in any way. Stock, it comes with stainless-steel lines, wavy front rotor and a real metal bash plate.



I've had the chance to take a couple of these up switchbacks on the Tibetan plateau up to 4000m (~13,000 feet), 2-up with bags, and the bike still pulled us along at about 40km/h. I know that won't seem fast to a lot of you but it's much quicker than a 150!



- My wife and I at 4000m/asl -


- Actually more like 3,981m -


On the downside, the header pipe will rust if not kept clean and the seat is more motor-cross than touring. While the geometry is comfortable while sitting, if you're tall and like to stand while riding, some taller bars might be nice.



- photos by my wife -


At the time of this writing, the QingQi's are being sold in the US under "Qlink", but I've heard some bad thing about Qlinks customer satisfaction. The bikes are successful in South America and South Africa where dealers report these as worry free bikes.

250cc wise, QingQi will soon be coming out with models based on the old bulletproof GN250 engine which is now undergoing 500hrs of testing. I'm always fond of siple relaible mills, but if you're looking for something with a little more pep, a company named "Shineray" seems to have the creative spotlight at the moment.

Shineray revived the old Honda NX250 engine, which some of you may know very well. It may be one of the best DOHC, water-cooled six speed engines ever made so it's nice to see it back in some form. This model is called the "X2" and is currently only in motor-x form.

If you like to sit long in the saddle, Shineray also makes a GY-7 which carries a paramilitary motorcycle look. Huge f/r racks, f/r disk brakes, over 5 gallon plastic fuel tank makes sure you don't spend too much time in gas stations. Although currently only in 200 version, they will probably fit a 250 engine in for export.

- Shineray GY-7 -

photo: Mike Gibson

Lifan is already in the US and has more than a few satisfied owners. They have also announced a 250cc enduro to be released soon. Lots of interesting stuff going on and if you want to know more about Chinese motorcycles and people who ride them all over the world, check out: MyChinaMoto.com

Also wanted to say, even though I'm not a native Texan, my daddy was born in Lubbock and I still have gobs of family there. Big skies, long roads!

Ride Safe, Have Fun,
CrazyCarl

Yeah the stock chains that come from the factories aren't usually very good. It's worth replacing the chain and tires shortly before you really start riding it. Most of the newer models come with 520 chains so finding a good replacement shouldn't be a problem. The light weight of the bike and low output of the engines won't stress the chains much either. Frame wise, the current and upcoming batches of Chinese bikes shouldn't give you too many problems. It's improving!

CC

Arbee said:

The weakest link in the China Bike is the case hardening of the steel
which is about half the strength of other bikes,

dont ask me how i know.

E.G if you leave your chain too loose for a while you can strip both sprockets

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Carl,

Great website you are building. I'm looking forward to reading more.

Carl, thanks a million for the info!!! That helps me out in my search quite a bit.

No need for thanks. I'm excited about this market and it's impact on motorcycling in the world. It seems a little silly and premature now but I'm taking long shots.

I would love to see a fiercely competetitive 200-600cc market. IF you don't mind "small" displacement engines, I"ll bet we end up with a fun moto market that all kinds of people can get into and enjoy.

I like to see people riding...all over the world. There's usually more in common than not.

CC

I'm starting to save my lunch money for the GY-7.
________
Squirting wet

It looks good to me too.

I'm kinda holding out for a 400-500cc engine though. Any hope of one like that in the near future?

texasnh said:

I'm starting to save my lunch money for the GY-7.

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Shineray is working on a 400cc enduro engine right now which is also Honda based engine technology. I understand the engine was just raced and tested in China's recent Desert Rally which, by the way, is an affordable way to have a casual race and see some amazing parts of China aw well as meet some good people.

Another company called XinYue has 250 and 400cc models but don't seem to be EPA certified yet.

- XingYue (said: Shing You-A) 400cc -


It's coming folks...it just takes time! Think about what Honda started off with in North America 50 years ago! C100 Supercub!

CC

Thanks, CrazyCarl, for the nice photos and quality information. Since you are living in China, your information about Chinese bikes can be a great asset to us here in Texas.

Your pic of the ShineRay GY 7 is exciting. Its larger, more comfortable seat is a wonderful thing to see. There are a lot of complaints here about the hard, narrow, uncomfortable seats on most dual sports. In Texas, many of us like to stay in the saddle for hours at a time. No doubt many dual sport riders wish the Chinese manufacturers would take "seat comfort" more seriously. If they do, it will certainly help sell their bikes here in the USA.

And if ShineRay builds the GY 7 with a comfortable seat and a 400cc engine, no doubt some of us couldn't contain our excitement. We would have to find a way for a few of us to go together and get a container load of them headed to the Houston port asap. That build of bike would lend a whole new meaning to "hot potatoe."

Your pics of the XingYue 400cc probably got a few of us staring closely, too. We really need some dual sports with engines 250cc or larger.

CrazyCarl, your information and photos have been helpful and enjoyable.

Thanks for all your quality input. That's the kind of good stuff we need.

gene7, in Denton, Texas
1966 Suzuki X6 Hustler
1966 Suzuki X6 Scrambler

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