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etcthorne
05-10-2008, 03:17 PM
Not real scientific, just an observation.

I've had many chain driven bikes over the years - Yamaha 550 Maxims (x2), Honda Shadows (x2), Katana 750, and now the Bandit.

I used to clean the chain maybe every 3K miles on these bikes and lube around every 1k miles, or to be more truthful, frequent lube of the chains was never my strong point. I now think my attitude toward chain maintenance on those bikes was probably why I found myself adjusting the chain so much. I got to where I dreaded chain drives.


With the Bandit, I've taken a new philosophy. I clean with Kerosene every 500 miles or so, and I actually quick lube with PJ1 after the last ride on every weekend, which typically means about 150 miles each weekend. I spray with PJ1 and immediately wipe off the excess.

I've noticed that this chain simply holds its adjustment very well, and I suspect frequent lubing has something to do with it. I now have 2500 miles on the bike and I only had to adjust the chain at around 900 miles. It has maintained around 1" play and lubing actually tightens it up a bit (filling those nooks and crannys I guess). The side effect is that the chain drive stays whisper quiet.

A quick spray and wipe down takes a minute. I think I'd take chain drive over shaft again if I had the choice.

The Big Spank Daddy
05-10-2008, 03:26 PM
Duopont Teflon spray at Lowe's.

I now have 20K+ miles on the Bandit and GPZ chain and sprockets. The key is to keep the o-rings lubed and conditioned. The Teflon does not allow road grime and moisture to adhere to the chain, thus protecting the o-rings. At the same time it keeps the abrasive particles from sticking to the rollers and sprockets, reducing wear.

As a side benefit, there is no "sling off" of product on the wheels and body parts.

Do a search, there are several threads about the Teflon spray.

suzukijo
05-10-2008, 03:30 PM
i agree completely.

cleaning the chain, or having to clean the chain, is the result of having used a type of chain lubricant, that becomes built up over time, and attracts dirt (and out in the high dez of Ca, rocks, sand). so cleaning the chain, to rid the chain of excess built up goo, that rocks and dirt clings to, would be appropriate.

many of the new style chain lubes, do not build up, excess goo.
and "cleaning the chain" is not needed.

wiping off the excess, lubing a small amount often on the inside of the rollers, is far better than putting an over amount of lube everywhere, every six months.

for me, finding a chain lube that didnt make a mess, was key to lubing often.

john2kvtr
05-10-2008, 04:49 PM
Here's a duh question I'm sure... how do you apply the kerosene? With a smallish paint brush or like a grunge brush?

One other point is to always turn the wheel backwards by hand when wiping it down. NEVER with the motor running. You wouldn't want to loose any fingers in the chain and sprocket.

etcthorne
05-10-2008, 07:06 PM
I put the Kerosene in a spray bottle that I got from the dollar store. Put it on fine mist and spray to get the chain wet. I then scrub it with a "grunge brush" I bought from the motorcycle store ($16.00). After the scrub, I hit it with another fair amount of Kerosene mist from the bottle. I then wipe it as dry as I can before moving on to the next segment. I also spin the rollers on each link to make sure they're not gummed up.


Hey, after seeing the post on the Dupont Teflon spray, I ran to Lowe's and picked up a can. Ran back home, did the whole cleaning thing again and then applied the spray. Went for a ride and came back - looks great, sounds quiet, and keeps a nice coating on the chain. You know, that PJ1 chain lube actually gums up the rollers a LOT. When I was cleaning them and moving them around, I had to put quite a few shots of Kerosene on some of them to make them move freely.

Thanks for the tip guys.

rworm
05-10-2008, 07:57 PM
You can clean your chain to well ya know/ Do you think your spraying behind the o -rings that you washed all the grease off with kerosene
rworm

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27273
Lubing often as joe said is the key

suzukijo
05-10-2008, 09:37 PM
One other point is to always turn the wheel backwards by hand when wiping it down. ...snip by suzukijo....

what if your a lefty?

etcthorne
05-11-2008, 06:58 AM
Rworm - you can't get to the part that's sealed by the o-ring unless you used a pressure washer to deform the ring or otherwise allowed it to deteriorate to the point it lost the lube inside. That's the way they're engineered. As long as that o-ring is in place and kept in lubricated/good shape, you're good to go. I'm more worried about the crap that collects on the sprocket and chain (and the rollers). When it gets real cruddy it acts like some pretty new sandpaper. Went for a 50 mile ride this morning - that Dupont Teflon is good stuff.

john2kvtr
05-11-2008, 09:15 PM
what if your a lefty?

Then you have to do it from the right side of the bike. :trust:

TWTourist
05-12-2008, 08:25 AM
what if your a lefty?

:headbang: until you get it right and become a righty.:lol2: :lol2:

rworm
05-12-2008, 08:46 PM
Rworm - you can't get to the part that's sealed by the o-ring unless you used a pressure washer to deform the ring or otherwise allowed it to deteriorate to the point it lost the lube inside. That's the way they're engineered. As long as that o-ring is in place and kept in lubricated/good shape, you're good to go. I'm more worried about the crap that collects on the sprocket and chain (and the rollers). When it gets real cruddy it acts like some pretty new sandpaper. Went for a 50 mile ride this morning - that Dupont Teflon is good stuff.
So you don't think your washing away any grease behind the o-rings by washing with kerosene?
rworm

etcthorne
05-13-2008, 05:32 AM
Rworm, I've done a lot of reading on this. Everything I've read points to Kerosene as being the preferred fluid for cleaning an O-ring chain. It doesn't have the penetrating power capable of getting past the rings themselves, yet it very quickly dissolves contaminants and the crud literally runs off the chain with a little persuasion from a brush (gently). WD-40 on the other hand, is capable of penetrating the ring and it will eventually eliminate the petroleum base in the lubricant inside the o-ring, leaving a powdery mess over time. Opinions vary WIDELY on this topic however. Kerosene is called for by the owner's manual and by every reputable motorcycle magazine I've been able to find. I don't soak the chain in Kerosene, and when I apply it it's with a fine mist from my spray bottle. Fine mist - scrub gently with the grunge brush, spray gently again and let the Kerosene do it's work. Again, I also turn each roller by hand to ensure it's moving freely.

etcthorne
05-13-2008, 05:34 AM
One more thing, I did notice during yesterday's reading that Kerosene is a particularly troublesome carcinogen, so next time I'm wearing industrial rubber gloves while I do the cleaning.

Geez, everything's a carcinogen these days. :eek2:

whitesands
05-14-2008, 03:53 PM
I've used kerosene on the chain of my CR250 and it works very well for cleaning...Yes use the rubber gloves!

X1Glider
05-14-2008, 04:19 PM
Yes, stay away from penetrating solvents. As an aside, WD40 can actually break down the o-rings ability to absorb lubricant and stay moist. You see citrus based solvents available and they're great for cleaning parts but on a chain, it does the same thing as WD40.

I haven't tried the kerosene. I just hose the bike down and use a bucket of soapy water and a grunge brush, then rinse off.

suzukijo
05-14-2008, 09:01 PM
chain adjusment theory.

some say the marks are off, some say they are ok.

some say using the marks, the chain is way off adjustment and they can either tell by doing it another way, which shows how off it was, or how the chain rides on the sprocket or other methods.

i sincerely think the marks, the stamped marks on the swingarm are correct.

what changes things is the aluminum blocks the axle pushes thru, that 'rock', 'tilt' or otherwise do not stay square in their respective places, when the axle is tightened, making the 'marks' seem to be incorrect.

this would seem to be a simple solution, to measure the distance between the axle and the swingarm pivot. but this is not as easy as it sounds.
one side, left side is a straighforward measure. nothing in the way, one could simply use a measuring tape, and see how far the axle is from the pivot.
but on the muffler side the muffler is in the way, for a straight measure.

then, the other question is where do you measure?

el bandito was clever enough to make aluminum plugs that fit into the two axles, and has a machine ruler incorporated into its fitment.

trying to copy his idea, and come up with a foolproof replication, is puzzling me at the moment.
but i would like to hunt around for some similar items in concept, something that one could easily buy or have laying about the house, to use instead.

so give me a few days, maybe a week or so, and i will try to come up with a poor mans measuring stick, to acurately measure the rear chain adj.

the string method, is cheap enough, and explained elsewhere, and the neat thing about it is, that string is commonly found and the other items needed, us motorcyclists usually have laying about.

taking the muffler off every time to check chain adj is not needed.

this is food for thought, and i am not saying that the marks are off, i think mine are pretty close, if you take care to not allow the blocks to rock in different directions.

PhilS
05-14-2008, 09:23 PM
chain adjusment theory.

some say the marks are off, some say they are ok.

some say using the marks, the chain is way off adjustment and they can either tell by doing it another way, which shows how off it was, or how the chain rides on the sprocket or other methods.

i sincerely think the marks, the stamped marks on the swingarm are correct.

what changes things is the aluminum blocks the axle pushes thru, that 'rock', 'tilt' or otherwise do not stay square in their respective places, when the axle is tightened, making the 'marks' seem to be incorrect.

this would seem to be a simple solution, to measure the distance between the axle and the swingarm pivot. but this is not as easy as it sounds.
one side, left side is a straighforward measure. nothing in the way, one could simply use a measuring tape, and see how far the axle is from the pivot.
but on the muffler side the muffler is in the way, for a straight measure.

then, the other question is where do you measure?

el bandito was clever enough to make aluminum plugs that fit into the two axles, and has a machine ruler incorporated into its fitment.

trying to copy his idea, and come up with a foolproof replication, is puzzling me at the moment.
but i would like to hunt around for some similar items in concept, something that one could easily buy or have laying about the house, to use instead.

so give me a few days, maybe a week or so, and i will try to come up with a poor mans measuring stick, to acurately measure the rear chain adj.

the string method, is cheap enough, and explained elsewhere, and the neat thing about it is, that string is commonly found and the other items needed, us motorcyclists usually have laying about.

taking the muffler off every time to check chain adj is not needed.

this is food for thought, and i am not saying that the marks are off, i think mine are pretty close, if you take care to not allow the blocks to rock in different directions.

When I installed the wheel, I removed the chain guard, took a straight edge and placed it on top of the chain, on top of the sprocket, touching both front and rear edges of the tire, and extending forward up the chain. This gave me a view of tire to chain alignment. I made a slight adjustment, test rode it, and we're back in business. I am sure this is not an accurate way of doing things as it's too simple, but it seemed fine and all seems lined up........


So Joe: I'm not trying to be an idiot, although that may an unintended result or consequence here anyway, but what about the simple eye-ball adjustment I did as mentioned above with a simple straight edge shooting down the chain cast against the tire itself to see if the track up to the front sprocket is parallel to the rear tire?

suzukijo
05-15-2008, 08:25 PM
your eyeball method is a valid one.

many things use line of sight for alignment.
an airplane fuselage, which has no flat square lines on the outside, often uses line of sight (like a gunscope) to align the tooling for construction.

what i would like to duplicate, is a method, that eliminates any 'sighting'.

my reasoning is that the line of sight, string method, brings into the equation, the possiblity that it could be done innacurate.

i can only reference it to shooting baskets,
you take the ball, throw it into the hoop. give the ball to someone else and tell them to 'shoot' and they miss.
you take the ball, throw it into the hoop. give the ball to someone else, and ask them to shoot like you, and they miss.

if you could put them on a ladder and put them above the net, and ask them to let go, above the net, odds are it may go in more times than not.

(please notice i am not saying that anyone is incapable of adjusting their chain properly, but the measure method develped by el bandito, would seem to be foolproof)

there are other chain adj tools, but all too often they cost money.

my intention is to come up that mimics his style of measuring, but would utilize items easily found, and cheaply.

but that may not possible, just trying to focus my brain on a distraction to keep me occupied, but i'm gonna try when i get back from this weekend.

PhilS
05-15-2008, 08:47 PM
Simple GOOGLE came up with this tool. My straight edge on the tire is similar, but I like this better as it bolts to the sprocket. I'm quite convinced that Scott or Joe could fabricate this in 7 minutes....:trust: You guys ever used one of these?

http://store.dsrpowersports.com/chalto.html?productid=chalto&channelid=FROOG

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z62/stearnsp/ChainAlign1.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z62/stearnsp/ChainAlign2.jpg

drroccostein
05-15-2008, 09:40 PM
I use PB Blaster Dry Teflon Lube, same as the DuPont. Goes on wet dry's to a nice white residue. I noticed after the first clean and lube the rollers actually rolled. And talk about easy to clean the next time, and no crap on the sprockets.

suzukijo
05-15-2008, 10:10 PM
S0521 tidnaB ikuzuS 7002 , looks like the tool, that clamps to the sprocket with a straightedge, could be the simplest answer.

thanks for taking the time, and research.

now if i can figure out what your name says?

PhilS
05-15-2008, 10:18 PM
S0521 tidnaB ikuzuS 7002 , looks like the tool, that clamps to the sprocket with a straightedge, could be the simplest answer.

thanks for taking the time, and research.

now if i can figure out what your name says?

Not sure what you mean by the name :trust: , but the $20 chain tool looks like a simple eyeball answer that gets it close.

Here's a thought, what do the pro racers use to line things up?

Phil (lihP)

whitesands
05-16-2008, 12:48 AM
I like the tool....I've always just gone by the alignment lines on the swingarm and never had a problem...

PhilS
12-18-2010, 08:41 PM
OK - this is the coolest thing I've seen for chain maintenance and NOT keeping the center stand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJgTF16a-h0

achesley
12-19-2010, 03:42 AM
That is neat and simple. Thanks for sharing.

Sockwell
12-19-2010, 09:35 AM
20 thousand miles on a belt, never cleaned, checked some and maybe adjusted with the new tire at 14500 miles. belts rule.

DFW_Warrior
12-19-2010, 09:55 AM
20 thousand miles on a belt, never cleaned, checked some and maybe adjusted with the new tire at 14500 miles. belts rule.

They do rule. On my Warrior I adjusted the belt at 500 miles, and then didn't touch it for 40k miles.

BlueStreak
12-19-2010, 03:23 PM
belts rule.

Unless you put them on a bike with as much power as a Bandit, in which case they break. There's a reason you only see them on Harleys and other cruisers, and scooters, and not on high performance bikes.

achesley
12-19-2010, 06:00 PM
Oh dude, I think you opened up a can of worm there. Let the war begin. L:O:L

DFW_Warrior
12-20-2010, 12:24 AM
Unless you put them on a bike with as much power as a Bandit, in which case they break. There's a reason you only see them on Harleys and other cruisers, and scooters, and not on high performance bikes.

Not really. It has more to do with geometry and less with HP. Belts don't like to be too loose or too tight. And most sport bikes need too much play in the driveline to use a belt effectively. Other than Buell of course, but they employed a tensioner pulley to keep the belt where it needed to be.

BlueStreak
12-20-2010, 10:23 AM
OK, I'll amend my first post: Given the space constraints of a modern sport bike, belt drives can't deal with the power. To handle the power of, say, a GSXR 1000, you'd likely need a belt at least 3 inches wide. That's incompatible with the packaging demands of a sport bike.

achesley
12-20-2010, 11:55 AM
Now, that's the same thing I heard Good Year Engineers saying 10 years ago. Until something better in material comes along , and it happens everyday with present tech.
I think Buel's Ulylles did and is doing quite well with the belt and its suspension travel. And, it's hanging pretty good on high torque v twin cruisers. I don't know how many poker runs you guys been on but the theme there is creep through corners and wide open on the straights till about 55 to 60 mph. LOL. Really hard on chain, belt and tire life putting 90 to 100 ft lbs to 800 to 1000 lbs of man and machine.

DFW_Warrior
12-20-2010, 03:38 PM
OK, I'll amend my first post: Given the space constraints of a modern sport bike, belt drives can't deal with the power. To handle the power of, say, a GSXR 1000, you'd likely need a belt at least 3 inches wide. That's incompatible with the packaging demands of a sport bike.

I wouldn't say so. The Buell 1125r puts out 146hp to the rear and I haven't heard of one single belt problem at all. Sure the GSXR makes more power, but if the Buell's belt can handle 146hp all day, your 3" belt could easily handle 400 or so. Last time I checked.... that's a little over a gixxer's power level.;-)

Two reasons that sport bikes don't have them.. One is because you need a pulley to maintain tension with sportbike geometry, and two (and the most important factor) is because sport bikes are bred from race bikes. In the racing world no one uses belts because of the constant gearing changes. Some race teams will swap their final drive ratios several times a day during a practice session. Having to remove an entire swingarm, just to swap to a shorter belt just isn't practical. Also having a full stock of belts on hand isn't practical. It's just easier to cut a length of chain and away you go. But the days of "belts are too weak to handle current HP" are long gone with today's belt technology.

Ah but back to chain maintenance.... I'm the poster child for how to abuse a chain. I lube mine about every 4-5k miles and change it out every 18-20k. Rinse and repeat.....:lol2:

treybrad
12-20-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm a big believer that cleaning the chain -- really well -- is the key (WD-40 on a rag doesn't count) -- that and not running it too tight.

I take a coffee cup of kerosene, a toothbrush, a big piece of cardboard to put under the bike and spend 15 minutes scrubbing away every 500-1,000mi and so far it's paid off -- 49,000mi on my OEM chain and it still looks great, holds adjustment (can't remember last time I adjusted it), and no tight/loose spots to speak of. I'd hop on and ride 5,000mi today without hesitation.

I'll throw in my endorsement for the Dupont Teflon stuff -- I think it extends the amount of time you can go between cleanings because it doesn't attract crud as much as most lubes. It's not magic though -- lube it with whatever you want, just keep it clean.

YMMV, I get ~14k out of my PR2s too so... maybe I just ride like a grandma :doh: (I like to think I'm just smooth...)

trey

DFW_Warrior
12-20-2010, 05:03 PM
Dang... that is the longest I've ever heard of a chain lasting on a large-bore bike. That is very, very impressive.:clap:

achesley
12-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Fantastic mileage on the chain. My OEM was toast at about 24,000 I think. I was out of adjustment coming back from the North country last year. I use the Dupont stuff also but I think I had a few thousand miles of dusty gravel roads which didn't help out non. Plus, I do a chain clean up with Kerosene and brush everytime I change oil and filter. That ranges from 3 to 4 thousand miles on the average.
I think I could of got 15thousand out of my set of RP2s , but change them out with another set getting ready for a little ride that didn't happen due to commitments and a bad cold. Sigh!

Ga-Bandit
12-21-2010, 04:02 PM
YMMV, I get ~14k out of my PR2s too so... maybe I just ride like a grandma :doh: (I like to think I'm just smooth...)

trey


:lol2:

now you've done it.

my chain is gone at <40,000 miles

Kris
12-28-2010, 02:07 PM
Simple GOOGLE came up with this tool. My straight edge on the tire is similar, but I like this better as it bolts to the sprocket. I'm quite convinced that Scott or Joe could fabricate this in 7 minutes....:trust: You guys ever used one of these?

http://store.dsrpowersports.com/chalto.html?productid=chalto&channelid=FROOG

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z62/stearnsp/ChainAlign1.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z62/stearnsp/ChainAlign2.jpg


I use this same method, but instead of a fancy tool, I use the skinny edge of a hacksaw blade. I hold it up against the rear sprocket and let it lay along the chain to check if it is aligned with the edge of the holes in the chain. Works great!

whitesands
12-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm a big believer that cleaning the chain -- really well -- is the key (WD-40 on a rag doesn't count) -- that and not running it too tight.

I take a coffee cup of kerosene, a toothbrush, a big piece of cardboard to put under the bike and spend 15 minutes scrubbing away every 500-1,000mi and so far it's paid off -- 49,000mi on my OEM chain and it still looks great, holds adjustment (can't remember last time I adjusted it), and no tight/loose spots to speak of. I'd hop on and ride 5,000mi today without hesitation.

I'll throw in my endorsement for the Dupont Teflon stuff -- I think it extends the amount of time you can go between cleanings because it doesn't attract crud as much as most lubes. It's not magic though -- lube it with whatever you want, just keep it clean.

YMMV, I get ~14k out of my PR2s too so... maybe I just ride like a grandma :doh: (I like to think I'm just smooth...)

trey



I've come to learn this as well...Not running it too tight...I noticed that the more I adjusted the chain to the tight end of the specs the more frequently I had to adjust it and the faster the chain would stretch...Once the chain gets to the loose end of the spec it stretches at a much slower pace...Now if it's on the loose side of the spec or just slightly out I just leave it alone and it seems to stretch at a VERY slow pace...I can't remember now when the last time I adjusted my chain but I figure it's been at least 7,000 miles or more...I use the Dupont teflon stuff as well..But I figure one of the largest factors is resisting the urge to constantly keep it at the tight end of the specs....

Downs
12-28-2010, 03:37 PM
My chain drive bikes get adjusted to the loose end of the spec. Lubed every 500 miles unless I was doing a long trip. If I was on a long trip where I was doing 500+ miles a day I'd lube it at every fuel stop. Cleaned it at every tire change. I'd get about 20k out of a chain before replacement.