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windman
05-21-2008, 07:32 PM
Probably some of you already use synthetic oil in your 1250.

Today when I went for the 18000km inspection I ask my dealer if it was possible to put synthetic oil in my motorcycle. He said it would do nothing good since the cylinders are nickel plated.

I do not elaborate on the subject, but I wonder why?
I seek on the web and I did not find much on the subject except for a compagny, RAM, which manufactures nickel plated cylinder for aircraft engine and they dont recommend synthetic oil or semi-synthetic

ref: http://www.ramaircraft.com/Whats-New-Ticker/RAM-Nickel-New-Cylinder-Packages/RAM-Nickel-New-Cylinder-Package.htm

I sent an e-mail today to Suzuki Canada and I ask if I could use synthetic oil in my 1250 ... I'm waiting the answer ...


So let the discution begin ...

Marc B
05-21-2008, 09:12 PM
I know many of us are running synthetic oil simply because it is the best oil, I felt the smoother shifting right away. I still change it every 2k even though it will go much longer, normal oil breaks down in the heat regardless of plated cylinders so why not run the best, Thats why my dealer has several to chose from on the shelf which by the way is overpriced, I run mobil 1 racing 4t 10w40 from autozone at $9 a qrt., the same oil the dealer charges $15 and i also run a wix filter, not the very best but better than fram. now let the syn oil mega thread begin. SZ. SPEAKING OF HEAT its already breaking 100% here.

suzukijo
05-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Today when I went for the 18000km inspection I ask my dealer if it was possible to put synthetic oil in my motorcycle. He said it would do nothing good since the cylinders are nickel plated.
So let the discution begin ...

the type of oil is plainly called out in all the manuals.
10w-40 SF or SG, SH or SJ (non energy conserving). if the synthetic meets or excedds that spec, what would be wrong with it?

i thought the cyl coating suzuki uses is their own creation (originally for the 1975 RE5) SCEM, unless they quit using it and have gone to what others use.

the reasoning that it has a hard surface coating on the cyl, whatever the brand name, discounts the need for a synthetic oil, makes no sense to me.
(like having an older construction surface for cyl wall, would make it worthwhile, and how that would 'make it good')

what needs to be understood, is often motorcycle specific oils, have additives they need for the straight cut gears in the transmission and clutch. normal oils for automobiles usually dont have the needs to lube a transmission and clutch.

saying that, i have been putting in mobil 1. (i buy whats on sale)
a constant supply of fresh oil, as long as its within the type recommended by the manufacturer, is what your engine needs.
some will scream in horror, but i have no regrets mixing oil brands.
which reminds me at 15,300 mi my bike needs another oil change.

bones
05-21-2008, 10:40 PM
I just dropped $10/qt at the dealer for synthetic. :rofl: I thought about taking it back tomorrow and just going back to Rotella Synthetic and said F it and run it this go round. Retarded purchase, but I needed a filter and just said what the heck. ;(

whitesands
05-22-2008, 12:25 AM
Joe, are you using the mobile 1 EP ?

dwoodul
05-22-2008, 12:33 AM
Although it's probably 6-of-one and half-a-dozen of another - I use syn oil because:

1) It bears more load than dino (300 PSI vs 3000 PSI)
2) It has better flow at lower temps
3) It withstands higher engine temps without breaking down
450 vs 650 (or something like that)
4) It’s slicker so the bike is not generating extra heat working against the dino’s added friction
5) Pure synthetic is “built” rather than refined to a tolerance so it will last longer

Given all that, I do believe if you change your oil regularly it typically probably doesn’t matter what you use UNLESS you get in a situation, something like, running low on coolant and the engine overheats - the syn will protect the engine longer than dino (ask me how I know). I’ve had two cars badly overheat with no resulting engine damage because (I think) I was running a synthetic oil. May do the same with dino as the quality of the dino's these days are soooooo much better than years ago (70s / 80s). I've used Amsoil for 17 years in everything (car, bikes, lawn mower etc)- it's pure synthetic and has given me real good service. I buy by the case and save a lot. Even my Briggs&S mower engine manual now recommends synthetic.

Basically I just sleep better running synthetic.

And I promise this is the LAST oil reply I'll ever do... :lol2:

Ol dave

suzukijo
05-22-2008, 10:37 AM
i'm with dwoodul, i said what i said, and i'm sticking with it.
can we go back to talking about loose seat lock screws now?

Roy
05-22-2008, 10:51 AM
15,300 mi my bike needs another oil change.

Have you checked the valves yet?

suzukijo
05-22-2008, 01:18 PM
no, no valve adj yet. i am past the service mi for that, and other things have creeped into my life to keep me from doing it. when it happens, hopefully in the next few weeks, i'll take some pics of it all and post it in twt.

personally, i would not have a problem with letting it go past service, as i have over 200,000 mi on our car (honda Acura) which is screw and jam nut, and after 4 cam belts and water pump changes, with valve adj, i might have adjusted 2 in that length of time.

as a line mechanic for 30 years with a motorcycle dealer, my opinion is the change in the adj is from the wear on the valve seat, and motorcycles just dont see that wear. consequently at valve adj, its just look at them, and button the engine back up, kiss it goodbye.

Roy
05-22-2008, 02:01 PM
no, no valve adj yet. i am past the service mi for that, and other things have creeped into my life to keep me from doing it. when it happens, hopefully in the next few weeks, i'll take some pics of it all and post it in twt.

personally, i would not have a problem with letting it go past service, as i have over 200,000 mi on our car (honda Acura) which is screw and jam nut, and after 4 cam belts and water pump changes, with valve adj, i might have adjusted 2 in that length of time.

as a line mechanic for 30 years with a motorcycle dealer, my opinion is the change in the adj is from the wear on the valve seat, and motorcycles just dont see that wear. consequently at valve adj, its just look at them, and button the engine back up, kiss it goodbye.

Yes I agree, I was just curious since I knew you had mentioned it recently.

I too will most likely let mine roll over a few 1,000 miles as well.:rider:

Brass
05-22-2008, 03:01 PM
and motorcycles just dont see that wear. consequently at valve adj, its just look at them, and button the engine back up, kiss it goodbye.

I agree completely.

Over the years, of all the valve "inspections" I've done on all the bikes that have passed through my garage, there has only ever been one that "needed" an adjustment (an '84 Yamaha 400 Maxim). I call them inspections since that's all that was needed.

It should be noted that none were ever ridden hard. Even the high revving bikes I've owned were never worked as hard as their design had intended. However, almost all ended up with mileage of at least 30,000.

bones
05-22-2008, 03:09 PM
My KLR needed 3 of the 4 adjusted. Doubt I mess with the bandit until 20K if I have it that long.

windman
05-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Today I went back to my dealer to have more explanation on the reason not to use synthetic oil in the Bandit.

He told me that with Teflon additive of the synthetic oil I would glass the cylinder, loosing compression, and would also glass the clutch plates and having clutch slipping.

I called 4 more Suzuki dealer in my area. None of them talk to me about the cylinders...but 3 of them suggest to go with semi-synthetic motorcycle oil like Motul...else I would have clutch slipping problem if I go with full synthetic or worst automobile synthetic based oil.

Only one told me that I could go with full synthetic motorcycle oil like Motul if I do race track or if I'm very aggressive with my bike..He said they use full synthetic oil mostly on GSXR.


Still waiting info from Suzuki Canada

BMahar
05-23-2008, 10:18 AM
Hi Suzukijo;
Brent Mahar here.
I did the valve inspection last week at 15,797 miles and they were all within the suggested clearances. No shimming required. The spark plugs looked fine but were replaced anyway as this was an easy time to do it.
So your right. These Bandits don't loose their adjustments unless there's something wrong or are driven hard.
Brent


no, no valve adj yet. i am past the service mi for that, and other things have creeped into my life to keep me from doing it. when it happens, hopefully in the next few weeks, i'll take some pics of it all and post it in twt.

personally, i would not have a problem with letting it go past service, as i have over 200,000 mi on our car (honda Acura) which is screw and jam nut, and after 4 cam belts and water pump changes, with valve adj, i might have adjusted 2 in that length of time.

as a line mechanic for 30 years with a motorcycle dealer, my opinion is the change in the adj is from the wear on the valve seat, and motorcycles just dont see that wear. consequently at valve adj, its just look at them, and button the engine back up, kiss it goodbye.

suzukijo
05-23-2008, 10:19 AM
it sounds like your dealer has a specific oil in mind, that he is discounting its use in your bike.
i'd bet if you quizzed him on oil classes and applications, he may be familiar with that one specific class, and is grouping all others as having the same additives.

its not that he's wrong, or that i'm wrong, or you are anyone else is wrong.

there are many types of oil, with many types of additives, and comparing what you need to what is available, and how much you want to pay, may take more time than seems appropriate.

many of our customers, who didnt want the hassle, just spoke up and asked, 'what do i need', we would suggest what type and show them we had low cost and high cost brands. simple.
others might come in wanting some new brand of oil just released to the market we wernt going to carry, and left in disgust.

there is a multitude of oils available, and often shops simply dont have the shelf space to display them all, so instead, they choose a few brands, and carry the lineup of those brands in the classes for models of machines they sell. at least they have something to sell for each bike.

this may mean, the class of oil they choose for your bike, may be an expensive one, and they make a large profit. some of their customers may only want the best, so they carry it. if they carried some lesser brand, mabye something available at discount stores, they know they cant beat that price, so why carry it.

motorcycles are expensive toys for rich people.
motorcycle shops cater to them. many times it has been decided that they suggest a specific oil for a specific machine, and thats what they sell.

the personell at the dealer your talking to, may be trained to sell a specific oil for specific models, oil they have on the shelf, they sell and make profit on.

talking to you at length about the other oils available from other businesses, of dubious benefits, takes time out of his day, he could be selling something to someone else.

as long as he sells it, aftermarket accessories, spare parts, tires, he will reccomend it. finding a competent local dealer and supporting them is beneficial in the long run.

good oil costs money. paying a lot for it, sometimes makes one want to keep it in longer than it should. finding a source for a good oil, at reasonable price and changing it often is what your bike needs.

saying that, i'll probably change my oil today. it needs it.

Brass
05-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Try finding an oil distributor that will sell you oil by the case.

I’ve been buying Amsoil that way for years. With the bike, I know I’ll go through a couple cases a year so I just buy a few cases and save some $$. Same goes for the filters, pick a few up from the dealer and get a discount, you’re gonna us them!

windman
05-23-2008, 04:04 PM
I think the problem with synthetic automotive oil have a lot of anti friction additive wich is not good for the motorcycle clutch.
So it's why one should use only motorcycle base synthetic or semi-synthetic oil.

Today I went to a motorcycle after market part store and I was told the same story about the use of semi-synthetic motorcycle oil only.

So I bought Motul 5100 10w-50 for 4 stroke motorcycle. I change the oil and I could notice a suddent transmission smoothess.

DFW_Warrior
05-23-2008, 04:08 PM
Motorcycle engines are motorcycle engines. The plating on the cylinders has little to do with the benefits of synthetic oil. Last time I checked, most of the bearings and moving parts are located in places other than the cylinders.

Oopsss... this is a Bandit thread, never mind, they need special "Bandit" oil that is ultra expensive!;-)

suzukijo
05-23-2008, 04:53 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

before this thread gets out of hand, read the above.
the additive section, naming zinc ( zinc dialkyldithiophosphate), ptfe (teflon), and moly ( molybdenum disulfide), ZDDP (phosphorous) and others offers simple explanation of what oil is and whats in it.

whitesands
05-23-2008, 04:55 PM
The cylinder plating has nothing to do wether or not to use synthetic oil....
As far as I know there is only one oil that uses teflon as an additive and it's quaker state with slick 50...No I wouldn't use an oil with teflon in it in any kind of vehicle...

Synthetic oils use the exact same additives as all other oils....Whether it's oil marketed as diesel, automobile, motorcycle, synthetic or mineral, they all use the same additives and the amounts vary depending on brand....The only additive you want to watch is moly...Most oils have it but anywhere below 100ppm and you're fine...Energy concerving oils, which are 10W30 oils and lower generally will have higher amounts of moly so avoid them unless you can check a VOA to see what it has in it....

Synthetic oil is not "more slippery"....Like a mineral oil it can have additives that can decrease friction on a wet clutch but that has nothing to do with it being a synthetic oil....Wet clutch safety has to do with the additives.



The difference with synthetic oil is that it has a more uniform molecular structure and it's a more pure form of oil...That structure is what gives synthetic oil it's advantages over mineral oils...those advantages are better flow rates at startup, resistance to shearing down in weight, and higher flashpoints...

Basically, a synthetic oil allows you the ability to go a little longer between changes ....If you use a regular oil just change it before it goes out of grade and you're fine..


For the Bandit depending on your temps you can use 10W30 to 15W50 as long as it is non energy concerving and API SG, SH, SJ, or JASO MA.

If you see an oil that's SM rated and non energy concerving that means it meets or exceeds the standards for SH,SG, SH, SJ...That reperesents almost every engine oil on the market today that's 10W40 or higher.

If you want something with high antiwear addtives you won't know which until you look at a VOA.

Here is a motorcycle oil and a diesel oil VOA...Calcium is an acid neutralizer and boron, phosphorus, and zinc are antiwear addtitives and values are in terms of ppm.

Castrol ACTEvo Xtra 4t motorcycle oil
MOLY: 0
BORON: 2
SILICON: 7
SODIUM: 0
CALCIUM: 1619
PHOSPHOROUS: 768
ZINC: 966
SUS VISC. @210F: 78.9
Cst Visc. @100C: 15.24
Flashpoint: 390
TBN: 8.8

Rotella T 15W40 CJ-4
MOLY: 1
BORON: 35
SILICON: 4
CALCIUM: 3065
PHOSPHORUS: 989
ZINC: 1208
Flashpoint: >405
sus viscosity@210F: 78.1
TBN: 10.3

Dink.1170
05-23-2008, 05:02 PM
Most oil discussions end up similar to oil advertisments, all smoke and mirrors,
ALL oils are at least mineral based; to some extent, use the oil you prefer.
The only thing you need to watch for is that it DOES NOT wear the " energy conserving" tag as this is not good for your clutch and may lead to slippage.
There is a lot of " smoke and mirrors" involved in the oil industry, we could go on for hours, but without a solid understanding of chemistry most people wouldn't understand.

Dink

suzukijo
05-23-2008, 05:26 PM
The only thing you need to watch for is that it DOES NOT wear the " energy conserving" tag as this is not good for your clutch and may lead to slippage....snip by suzukijo....


i agree.
energy conserving, equals friction modifiers.

whitesands
05-23-2008, 05:41 PM
Most oil discussions end up similar to oil advertisments, all smoke and mirrors,
ALL oils are at least mineral based; to some extent, use the oil you prefer.
The only thing you need to watch for is that it DOES NOT wear the " energy conserving" tag as this is not good for your clutch and may lead to slippage.
There is a lot of " smoke and mirrors" involved in the oil industry, we could go on for hours, but without a solid understanding of chemistry most people wouldn't understand.

Dink


So true....Get the correct weight, non energy concerving, and choose your favorite brand be it synthetic or conventional and do your oil changes accordingly and you're fine.

DFW_Warrior
05-24-2008, 10:08 PM
Most oil discussions end up similar to oil advertisments, all smoke and mirrors,
ALL oils are at least mineral based; to some extent, use the oil you prefer.

So true....Get the correct weight, non energy concerving, and choose your favorite brand be it synthetic or conventional and do your oil changes accordingly and you're fine.

Actually, not true at all. Here is a link to just one of Amsoil's many products MSDS sheets and it clearly states that it is derived from synthetic base stocks.
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/amo.pdf

Now Rotella T "synthetic" on the other hand IS made from dino oil base stocks as stated in it's MSDS sheets.

So I guess you guys are right, smoke and mirrors are usually what you get with oil threads. It's just funny what you can actually prove if you do just a few seconds of a web search. Better luck next time.:lol2:

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 12:06 AM
Actually, not true at all. Here is a link to just one of Amsoil's many products MSDS sheets and it clearly states that it is derived from synthetic base stocks.
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/amo.pdf
Better luck next time.:lol2:


luck has nothing to do with trying to explain ones understanding.
the amsoil link is their msds sheet, and explains nothing about what it is derived from.

here is a simple explanation from widkpedia. quote.
Synthetic oil is oil consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds. Synthetic oil could be made to be a substitute for petroleum, or specially made to be a substitute for a lubricant oil, such as conventional (or mineral) motor oil refined from petroleum. When a synthetic oil or synthetic fuel is made as a substitute for petroleum, it is generally produced because of a shortage of petroleum or because petroleum is too expensive[citation needed]. When synthetic oil is made as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum, it is generally to provide superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils.

unquote.
so, 'you feelin lucky, ....punk'?

(just a quote from a clint eastwood movie)

DFW_Warrior
05-25-2008, 06:41 AM
luck has nothing to do with trying to explain ones understanding.
the amsoil link is their msds sheet, and explains nothing about what it is derived from.

Actually it does. The simple line stating that it is derived from synthetic base stocks tells you that it is not coming from a refined dino oil. If it did come from a refined dino oil then by law it would have to state that in the MSDS info for safety reasons.

Here is a link to Rotella T synthetic for comparison.
http://www.islandoilsupply.com/shell/msds/071630.txt

Your Wiki article actually didn't say one way or another whether they came from synthetic or dino sources. It just said that they "could". That's not exactly what I call the smoking gun.

The bottom line is that if a manufacturer uses petroleum based stock in it's oil that they have to put that on the MSDS sheets and that should be your first clue as to whether it is a true synthetic or if it's not.

twist
05-25-2008, 09:05 AM
Here's a link to more information than I personally want to know about oil:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

I got too confused about all this "oil stuff" so just don't use any... :lol2:

enjoy :rider:

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 10:53 AM
thank you Mr. twist, a quote from that page about syn oils.

the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic.
In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component.
Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics.
By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil.
The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics.

unquote.

I guess it would have been better for me to start with a definition of 'synthetic oil' before i climbed up on the box.

some of the stuff i read researching my opinions for this thread, i have read in the past. it is refreshing to re-read and focus on it.

cloudy, rainy, snowy, cold, so cal. where did summer go?

DFW_Warrior
05-25-2008, 01:35 PM
Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics.
By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil.
The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics.

Didn't I just say all this a couple posts ago???:rofl: Go figure... Now back to the topic at hand.... the quote of "all synthetic oil is made from dino oil" would be WRONG. Smoke and mirrors and people saying stuff that hasn't been researched.

flb_78
05-25-2008, 01:52 PM
Im still using John Deere Plus 50 Diesel Conventional oil. If it's good enough for a 500,000 dollar piece of equipment, it's good enough for my little motorcycle.

flb_78
05-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Here is a link to Rotella T synthetic for comparison.
http://www.islandoilsupply.com/shell/msds/071630.txt

Sorry Bill, but that's for the conventional 15w40 Rotella T with Advanced Soot Control.

DFW_Warrior
05-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Sorry Bill, but that's for the conventional 15w40 Rotella T with Advanced Soot Control.

They use the same base stocks. I tired to get on shell's site, but at the time the MSDS portion of it was down. So I used the only one I could find. As soon as it comes back up I'll post up the synthetic one and it will be identical.

flb_78
05-25-2008, 01:58 PM
They use the same base stocks. I tired to get on shell's site, but at the time the MSDS portion of it was down. So I used the only one I could find. As soon as it comes back up I'll post up the synthetic one and it will be identical.

I have no doubts that the Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic is not a true synthetic based oil. Just looking at the cost should be a big alarm. It's half the price of any other synthetic oil. Rotella 5W40 is 13-14 bux a gallon, Delvac 1 is almost 30 a gallon.

whitesands
05-25-2008, 02:39 PM
Actually, not true at all. Here is a link to just one of Amsoil's many products MSDS sheets and it clearly states that it is derived from synthetic base stocks.
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/amo.pdf

Now Rotella T "synthetic" on the other hand IS made from dino oil base stocks as stated in it's MSDS sheets.

So I guess you guys are right, smoke and mirrors are usually what you get with oil threads. It's just funny what you can actually prove if you do just a few seconds of a web search. Better luck next time.:lol2:


What? You don't even know what we were talking about...The smoke and mirrors he was referring to (at least it appeared to be) were the marketing gimmicks used to make folks feel they have to purchase a "motorcycle oil"..You get alot of smoke and mirrors with the marketing unless someone spends time researching....

It's no secret that Rotella T 5W40 , PP, and Catrol syntec are group 3 oils legally called synthetics...Old news...They're still good oils...It's no secret that out of all the oil brands sold on the market most base oils are supplied by very few refiners...The Rotella 15W40 I posted is a conventional oil and it was used to compare the additive levels to a motorcycle oil.

Amsoil is a very good synthetic oil....But the funny part is some folks actually believe that Amsoil is somehow structurally different from other true synthetics and is the best oil in the world...Well, at least it is on their website...And Amsoil buys their PAO base oil from Exxon Mobil and some group 3 base oil from Shell...

Try again....

A1A
05-25-2008, 05:54 PM
Oils Well That Ends Well Part 1 & 2 (Part 2 At The Bottom Of Part 1 Article)

I think this is one of the best oil related articles.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

:patriot:

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 06:23 PM
Oils Well That Ends Well Part 1 & 2 (Part 2 At The Bottom Of Part 1 Article) I think this is one of the best oil related articles.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html:patriot:

this is a really good link, thank you.

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 06:26 PM
a really, really good article. http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

A1A
05-25-2008, 06:39 PM
this is a really good link, thank you.

Your very welcome SJ,

It does take a little while to read and to digest, but it has pictures and seems non-bias in the report.

:rider:

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 07:01 PM
and the impossible to read charts, are clickable, opening a easy to read new page, the additive content page and wear page seem to be the most informative. as well as their explanation of moly and clutch slippage (no correlation, as i had been led to believe)

DFW_Warrior
05-25-2008, 09:18 PM
What? You don't even know what we were talking about...The smoke and mirrors he was referring to (at least it appeared to be) were the marketing gimmicks used to make folks feel they have to purchase a "motorcycle oil"..You get alot of smoke and mirrors with the marketing unless someone spends time researching....

Actually yes I do know what I'm talking about. Here are the quotes I was referring to in case you have a hard time remembering what you typed earlier....

Most oil discussions end up similar to oil advertisments, all smoke and mirrors,
ALL oils are at least mineral based; to some extent, use the oil you prefer.
The only thing you need to watch for is that it DOES NOT wear the " energy conserving" tag as this is not good for your clutch and may lead to slippage.
There is a lot of " smoke and mirrors" involved in the oil industry, we could go on for hours, but without a solid understanding of chemistry most people wouldn't understand.

Dink
So true....Get the correct weight, non energy concerving, and choose your favorite brand be it synthetic or conventional and do your oil changes accordingly and you're fine.

You see.... you said "so true" in regards to Dink's quote of ALL oils are mineral based. If you doubt that then please scroll up to re-read what you posted. That, in case you are wondering is a false statement. As for "all oils are the same", that is also false and can be proved with just a tiny bit of research already posted in the oil links in this and the other couple thousand threads on it.

Is Amsoil better than any other type of full synthetic, nope, I never said it was and I never will. I just get it cheaper than any other type so that's what I use. Is Amsoil or any other true synthetic better than a refined dino oil marketed at a synthetic, oh heck yeah. There is no disputing that. But will the hydrocracked dino oil be bad on a motor, nope not at all. I just use the full (true) synthetics because they do hold up to heat far better than a dino oil.

Comprende?

A1A
05-25-2008, 09:34 PM
Actually yes I do know what I'm talking about. Here are the quotes I was referring to in case you have a hard time remembering what you typed earlier....




You see.... you said "so true" in regards to Dink's quote of ALL oils are mineral based. If you doubt that then please scroll up to re-read what you posted. That, in case you are wondering is a false statement. As for "all oils are the same", that is also false and can be proved with just a tiny bit of research already posted in the oil links in this and the other couple thousand threads on it.

Is Amsoil better than any other type of full synthetic, nope, I never said it was and I never will. I just get it cheaper than any other type so that's what I use. Is Amsoil or any other true synthetic better than a refined dino oil marketed at a synthetic, oh heck yeah. There is no disputing that. But will the hydrocracked dino oil be bad on a motor, nope not at all. I just use the full (true) synthetics because they do hold up to heat far better than a dino oil.

Comprende?

Yes, full synthetic also hold there viscosity longer and have more acid reducing additives. So you can run them longer between oil changes.

suzukijo
05-25-2008, 10:04 PM
whoo-hoo, the oil thread is 3 pages now......

whitesands
05-25-2008, 11:10 PM
Actually yes I do know what I'm talking about. Here are the quotes I was referring to in case you have a hard time remembering what you typed earlier....




You see.... you said "so true" in regards to Dink's quote of ALL oils are mineral based. If you doubt that then please scroll up to re-read what you posted. That, in case you are wondering is a false statement. As for "all oils are the same", that is also false and can be proved with just a tiny bit of research already posted in the oil links in this and the other couple thousand threads on it.

Is Amsoil better than any other type of full synthetic, nope, I never said it was and I never will. I just get it cheaper than any other type so that's what I use. Is Amsoil or any other true synthetic better than a refined dino oil marketed at a synthetic, oh heck yeah. There is no disputing that. But will the hydrocracked dino oil be bad on a motor, nope not at all. I just use the full (true) synthetics because they do hold up to heat far better than a dino oil.

Comprende?


I think you need to Read the guys post again....


"ALL oils are at least mineral based; to some extent"

What he means by that you can ask for him to explain it to you since you're making a fuss about it...


Even so, that wasn't even what I was referring to as you can clearly see by the context of the post....I did not say "so true, all oils are mineral based."...I was referring to smoke and mirrors used in oil marketing and all you really need to do is avoid the EC label to find a decent oil ..."So true....Get the correct weight, non energy concerving, and choose your favorite brand be it synthetic or conventional and do your oil changes accordingly and you're fine." It's not really complicated...


I'm perfectly aware of the difference in PAO and group 3 oils....Amsoil is loaded with smoke and mirrors in their oil marketing and people pay extra for an oil that comes from Mobil 1 or Shell...And Petro Canada as well...

whitesands
05-26-2008, 01:22 AM
They use the same base stocks. I tired to get on shell's site, but at the time the MSDS portion of it was down. So I used the only one I could find. As soon as it comes back up I'll post up the synthetic one and it will be identical.

Apparantly Amsoil likes to use Shell base stocks...

If Rotella T 5w40 and 15W40 use the same base stocks that would likely mean that Rotella 15W40 CJ-4 is Group II+ so some group 3 may be mixed to meet CJ-4....

Dink.1170
05-26-2008, 06:30 AM
ALL OILS ARE DINO BASED!!! TO SOME EXTENT!!! is this so hard a statement to understand.
Because even only the addition of an additive that is created from a dino base IS TO SOME EXTENT??

Clean oil is what you are after, and you can you the cheapest possible brand and change often and you will have fairly good protection. Please note NOT the best protection!!! It the pollutants in the oil that do the damage. clean fresh oil is the key.

Please note I also said we can go on for hours, but without a solid understanding of chemistry and engineering most people will not understand.
You will also note at no point do I name brands, I did not and do not try to force my opinion on anyone, if you dont agree with me that is your choice.
All I am trying to do is pass on some of my experience in the auto industry.

I will stick by "choose a non-friction modified oil and change it often."
I do not remove a sump plug without changing the filter, but that is my choice.

Dink

FDM
05-26-2008, 07:58 AM
Today I went to a motorcycle after market part store and I was told the same story about the use of semi-synthetic motorcycle oil only.

So I bought Motul 5100 10w-50 for 4 stroke motorcycle. I change the oil and I could notice a suddent transmission smoothess.


I was also told the same thing about using semi-synthetic oil unless you had a race bike, Motul 5100 is what I use in my KLR and will be putting it in the Bandit when I get a few more miles on it.

George Lewis
05-26-2008, 09:40 AM
I have used Mobil 1, 15w-50 in my three scoots, three vehicles, two riding mowers, Kabota tractor and lawn mower. Been using it for 25-30 years without a failure. I change my scoots oil/filter at 5 to 6K, same with my vehicles. I buy 5 quart jugs at Wal-Mart and when on sale for around $20-22, I stock up. My Bandit and Burgman use the same Suzuki filter and my Gold Wing gets the Honda filter. I buy the filters over the 800 number, a case of 10 at a time. I split them with two buddies who have Bandits and Gold Wings. Works for me.

terrebandit
05-26-2008, 10:10 AM
I agree completely.

Over the years, of all the valve "inspections" I've done on all the bikes that have passed through my garage, there has only ever been one that "needed" an adjustment (an '84 Yamaha 400 Maxim). I call them inspections since that's all that was needed.

It should be noted that none were ever ridden hard. Even the high revving bikes I've owned were never worked as hard as their design had intended. However, almost all ended up with mileage of at least 30,000.

So how would you define "needed"? I've done plenty of bikes and while most were not totally out of spec, many were at the high or low end of spec and required adjustment to bring them back to the middle. Thats how I would define "needed". I figure that while I'm in there I might as well finish the job and make it perfect. I know a lot of shops do it like you.

I do not advocate, or even suggest, that one should just let it go because of some general observations seen on a MC forum. If you have just one valve out of adjustment, the consequences could be very bad if you don't correct the situation. If your service is due, just go get it done or do it yourself.

flb_78
05-26-2008, 10:16 AM
So how would you define "needed"? I've done plenty of bikes and while most were not totally out of spec, many were at the high or low end of spec and required adjustment to bring them back to the middle. Thats how I would define "needed".

If they are at the high or low end, they are still with-in spec and that's probably the way they were set from the factory.

suzukijo
05-26-2008, 08:38 PM
theres been some talk of adjusting valves in this thread.
if it is within service specification, it is within service specification.

'needing' to adjust it to get it 'in the middle'?
in the middle of what?
wouldnt it be better to put them at the bottom?
or would it be better to put them at the top?

just being argumentative, if someone would like to explain the benefits or issues of each range of adjustment or post a url where it is explained, that might be of help.

if its in spec, its in spec.
i know some can get anal about measurements, but which grouping within the spec would be best? if the 'within spec' measure is not.

no need to reply, but its an interesting topic, related to this oil thread.
as the actual distance between the cam and valve is filled with oil.

how much is enough, or too much?
is one better with syn oil?

so many questions,....

Brass
05-26-2008, 09:14 PM
So how would you define "needed"? I've done plenty of bikes and while most were not totally out of spec, many were at the high or low end of spec and required adjustment to bring them back to the middle. Thats how I would define "needed". I figure that while I'm in there I might as well finish the job and make it perfect. I know a lot of shops do it like you.



I define it as out of the acceptable range specified in the service manual. Plain and simple.
Most often putting in the time to bring it back into the "middle" isn't worth the effort, there is no noticeble difference in performance or reliability. Do you really believe they leave the assembly line in the middle of the spec?

vamacher
09-15-2008, 10:26 AM
Since this is an oil thread I guess I should post my question here. I am about to do my 4000 mile oil change. I currently have Mobil 1 10w40 for motorcycles in it. When I was in the dealership buying the filter I mentioned that I was thinking of switching back to regular oil from Mobil 1 because of the cost. The guy at the parts counter said that once you run synthetic in a motorcycle you can't go back to regular. Is this for real?? It kind of sounds like one of those urban legends but it came from the dealership.

DFW_Warrior
09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
Since this is an oil thread I guess I should post my question here. I am about to do my 4000 mile oil change. I currently have Mobil 1 10w40 for motorcycles in it. When I was in the dealership buying the filter I mentioned that I was thinking of switching back to regular oil from Mobil 1 because of the cost. The guy at the parts counter said that once you run synthetic in a motorcycle you can't go back to regular. Is this for real?? It kind of sounds like one of those urban legends but it came from the dealership.

The guy at the dealer is an idiot. It doesn't do anything at all to swap it over. But why would you really want to, the motor runs cooler, oil change intervals are extended, and it shifts better. I'm not seeing a downside just yet.

Brass
09-15-2008, 10:48 AM
About 20 years ago I heard someone mention the same thing and there wasn’t a clear answer for it. At the time I was working with either Ford or GM I can’t remember which, anyhow, because of my position at the time I had access to the engine design engineers and chemical engineers so I put the question to them. Even keeping in mind that the same oil is used for the tranny, clutch along with the motor, they could not find a reason not to be able to switch back and forth or even mix the two different oils.

No matter the type of oil (dyno or synth) make sure it designed for use in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. Most automotive grade oils have additives that will (could) cause a clutch to slip.

The oil debate issue will go on forever, I’m sure someone will come back with an argument to the contrary.

red757
09-15-2008, 02:38 PM
Since this is an oil thread I guess I should post my question here. I am about to do my 4000 mile oil change. I currently have Mobil 1 10w40 for motorcycles in it. When I was in the dealership buying the filter I mentioned that I was thinking of switching back to regular oil from Mobil 1 because of the cost. The guy at the parts counter said that once you run synthetic in a motorcycle you can't go back to regular. Is this for real?? It kind of sounds like one of those urban legends but it came from the dealership.

There is truth behind it but no longer applies. When full syths first came out their seal swell rate was much different than standard oil. That would lead to engine leaks and other lubricant seal problems. After many years of research and development synth and standard seal swell rates are quite the same and no longer create that problem.

But the real question is why would you want to switch back? to save a few bucs?

twist
09-15-2008, 05:17 PM
Never ending debate.... (oil) :giveup:

I'm no expert, but I have read plenty and I agree with everyone above, there is no problem in changing back and forth between synthetic and regular oil all you want.

Consider this: why not change to Mobil 1 full synthetic for autos, same synthetic benefits at a fraction of the "motorcycle" synthetic costs ($25 for six quarts at costco, similar at walmart, etc.)

Now I've already heard the arguments from several believers that "motorcycle" oil is different and special - but I'm not buying it. Yes the formula is slightly different for the additives, but not enough to justify the cost in my opinion. :rider:

DFW_Warrior
09-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Never ending debate.... (oil) :giveup:

I'm no expert, but I have read plenty and I agree with everyone above, there is no problem in changing back and forth between synthetic and regular oil all you want.

Consider this: why not change to Mobil 1 full synthetic for autos, same synthetic benefits at a fraction of the "motorcycle" synthetic costs ($25 for six quarts at costco, similar at walmart, etc.)

Now I've already heard the arguments from several believers that "motorcycle" oil is different and special - but I'm not buying it. Yes the formula is slightly different for the additives, but not enough to justify the cost in my opinion. :rider:

The motor will lock up, catch on fire, and you will crash and die. Or at least that's what the guys selling the motorcycle oil are telling you. What, you don't want to believe them, why would they lie to you?!?!?!:yawn:

It's just fine. How do I know, well because I've done it and I still continue to do it. I've ridden 10's and 10's and 10's of thousands of miles on my bikes and the regular oil that's been in them is just fine. I do use a high end oil (Amsoil's premium line) but still, it is just fine. The clutch doesn't wear any faster, it doesn't slip, and I haven't died yet. It's just marketing hype.

Now the ones with the label "energy conserving", yeah, that's not hype. Stay away from those.

red757
09-16-2008, 12:59 AM
The real oil fact is buy now. It might go down a bit more for a hot minute but it's guaranteed to shoot back up very soon. Crude that is!

MetrickMetal
09-16-2008, 08:59 AM
Probably some of you already use synthetic oil in your 1250.

Today when I went for the 18000km inspection I ask my dealer if it was possible to put synthetic oil in my motorcycle. He said it would do nothing good since the cylinders are nickel plated.

I do not elaborate on the subject, but I wonder why?
I seek on the web and I did not find much on the subject except for a compagny, RAM, which manufactures nickel plated cylinder for aircraft engine and they dont recommend synthetic oil or semi-synthetic

ref: http://www.ramaircraft.com/Whats-New-Ticker/RAM-Nickel-New-Cylinder-Packages/RAM-Nickel-New-Cylinder-Package.htm

I sent an e-mail today to Suzuki Canada and I ask if I could use synthetic oil in my 1250 ... I'm waiting the answer ...


So let the discution begin ...


To say that the cylinder on the Bandit are just nickel plated is not a very accurate description of the material that has been applied to the bores.

Suzuki currently uses a nickel phosphorus-silicon-carbide proprietary coating trademarked SCEM (Suzuki Composite Electro-chemical Material) to minimize cylinder size and improve heat dissipation, and using this coating also allows Suzuki to increase the bore size on a multiple cylinder engine by not having to use iron cylinder liners in the configuration, which helps them to keep the engines as narrow as possible.

By also not using an iron cylinder liner, you now have an aluminum piston riding in an aluminum bore which both have the same rate of expansion when heated. This allows the pistons to be fitted to much closer tolerances to the bores than you can compared an aluminum piston in an iron sleeved cylinder which has a different rate of expansion than the aluminum piston typically requiring more piston to cylinder clearance.

Aluminum cylinder bores also transfer heat much better than an iron liner will which helps keep the cylinders and pistons cooler, especially on high performance multi-cylinder motorcycle engines.

Suzuki's nickel phosphorus-silicon-carbide cylinder coating (SCEM) is their own proprietary cylinder coating most likely based on Nikasil, which is an electrodeposited oleophilic nickel matrix Silicon Carbide coating used mainly on piston engine cylinder liners. Nikasil was introduced by Mahle in 1967 to allow rotary engine apex seals to work directly against the aluminum housing with low wear and friction.

Cylinder coatings like Nikasil and Suzuki's SCEM allow the use of very large cylinder bores with tight tolerances that you just can't get with iron sleeved cylinders and it also allows the displacement of an existing engine to be easily increased, as all you have to do is increase the bore diameters and recoat the bores. :rider:

Brass
09-16-2008, 09:23 AM
I have no doubt that you could safely run auto grade oil in a bike. Do you think all those 1972 Honda CB750’s ever had a drop of motorcycle spec oil in them?
Times change, tolerances are tighter, rpm and hp numbers are much higher now but the argument is the same for oil as well, it’s much better now than it was then.

I'll be honest, I've never tried any of the automotive grades in my bikes. Again I fall back to the conversations I had with the design engineers. Their claim was that a motorcycle places different stresses on the oil than an automotive oil, higher loading (rpm) contamination from clutch, transmission duties, etc.

It makes sense that the 2 would require different additives to deal with the different operating requirements. How are those additives different? I have no clue and really don’t care. It’s a personal choice, I spend the few extra $$ on the bike spec oil but when winter comes and the bike gets put away, it will end up with a belly full of the cheapest oil on the shelf. After all, it will never be started with that oil it’s simply there for storage. In the spring the synth goes back in before the first start up.

The debate will go on forever, there are very good reasons from all sides. Just put something in there, we all agree you need oil. In the end, it’s your bike, fill it up and ride and don’t worry about it.

Your mileage may vary.

achesley
09-16-2008, 11:09 AM
I really think all you guys need to use Dino Oil in your everything. Gosh, I work offshore Louisiana in the Oil/Gas industry. How am I gonna make a living if you guys all go Syn Oils? Give me a break. :trust: :giveup: :giveup: :lol2: :lol2:

Brass
09-16-2008, 11:19 AM
I really think all you guys need to use Dino Oil in your everything. Gosh, I work offshore Louisiana in the Oil/Gas industry. How am I gonna make a living if you guys all go Syn Oils? Give me a break. :trust: :giveup: :giveup: :lol2: :lol2:

I'm heavily invested in gulf stocks and right now I'm losing my shirt supporting you :giveup: Get back to work so I can afford to ride my bike :rider:

red757
09-17-2008, 07:51 PM
I have no doubt that you could safely run auto grade oil in a bike. Do you think all those 1972 Honda CB750ís ever had a drop of motorcycle spec oil in them?
Times change, tolerances are tighter, rpm and hp numbers are much higher now but the argument is the same for oil as well, itís much better now than it was then.

I'll be honest, I've never tried any of the automotive grades in my bikes. Again I fall back to the conversations I had with the design engineers. Their claim was that a motorcycle places different stresses on the oil than an automotive oil, higher loading (rpm) contamination from clutch, transmission duties, etc.

It makes sense that the 2 would require different additives to deal with the different operating requirements. How are those additives different? I have no clue and really donít care. Itís a personal choice, I spend the few extra $$ on the bike spec oil but when winter comes and the bike gets put away, it will end up with a belly full of the cheapest oil on the shelf. After all, it will never be started with that oil itís simply there for storage. In the spring the synth goes back in before the first start up.

The debate will go on forever, there are very good reasons from all sides. Just put something in there, we all agree you need oil. In the end, itís your bike, fill it up and ride and donít worry about it.

Your mileage may vary.
I believe the main difference in Auto vs cycle spec oil has something to do with a wet clutch.:brainsnap

Brass
09-18-2008, 08:35 AM
I believe the main difference in Auto vs cycle spec oil has something to do with a wet clutch.:brainsnap

Yes :giveup: (see my previous post) auto oil is not designed to work with a wet clutch.

I am not suggesting you, or anyone else run auto oil in their bike. I don't use it and never will. However many riders, maybe even some on this forum have succefully used auto oil in their bikes for years without any problems associated with the clutch. I'm sure some would swear that it's the greatest thing for your bike and they've even picked up 18hp by using it in their 1979 Kayamasuki 750

Bike oil is also designed to deal with the shearing forces found within the transmission of a bike. Auto oil is not designed for this type of loading. Something for the Ducati riders with a dry clutch to consider before pouring auto oil into their pretty red scotters.

Whatever you or anyone else desides to use is your choice. I simply suggest you change it regularly and stop worrying about it.

This oil thread needs to die. :biggun:

DFW_Warrior
09-18-2008, 09:41 AM
I am not suggesting you, or anyone else run auto oil in their bike. I don't use it and never will. However many riders, maybe even some on this forum have succefully used auto oil in their bikes for years without any problems associated with the clutch. I'm sure some would swear that it's the greatest thing for your bike and they've even picked up 18hp by using it in their 1979 Kayamasuki 750

:wave:

I'd be one of the ones that could care less if it says "motorcycle" on the label or not. Oh yeah, I'm also one of the ones that logs over 25k miles a year via motorcycle and have yet to have one single oil related problem at all on any bike I've ever owned. Huh, go figure.

No I haven't seen any HP increases or decreases for that matter. No my fuel mileage hasn't gone up or down, and no the bike doesn't seem to run hotter or cooler.

As a matter of fact, my Amsoil rep even told me that the AMO Amsoil is the exact same formula as the "motorcycle" 10-40 oil that they sell. Also the oil marketed to "V-twin" owners is exactly the same as the regular 20-50 motorcycle oil. They just found out that many motorcycle owners (like some on this board) are paranoid and unless it has a neat sticker on it, that they think it will make their tranny's explode.

Oil is oil, and it just don't matter. Plain and simple, not if's and's or but's. It's worked for so many years, why would it not work now? Oh wait, it still does work now.

whitesands
09-20-2008, 04:29 AM
Yup...There's alot of claims that motorcycle oils resist shear better but I've never seen an oil analysis show this...It's true that motorcycles are harder on oils, the marketing hype is that there is a special formulation that motorcycle oils have that help resist the shearing forces...The fact is all engine oils are made to resist shear as best they can and synthetics tend to resist shear better than conventionals no matter what it's marketed for...The only thing an oil refiner can do is make an oil of a given weight, say 10W40 and make it on the heavy end of the 40 weight range that way it has more distance to go before it shears out of grade...There is nothing mechanically different from an oil that's marketed for motorcycle, car, or diesel....

Lot's of folks will say "don't use diesel, cause its made for diesel engines "....What they don't understand that diesel oils are also SM rated which means they can be used in gasoline engines...


Also the SG rating for oils....If an oil is SM rated, it is backwards compatible for all previous ratings no matter what it is marketed for...If a bottle of oil has SG anywhere on the text of the bottle, by law that oil has to at least meet those specs or that rating cannot be put on the label...Also if there is a motorcycle oil that has an SG rating and it has an API dohnut on the bottle the SG rating has to appear in the text because by law they cannot display the SG rating in the API dohnut because the dohnut cannot be displayed unless it meets the latest API classification which is now the SM rating...Remember all SM oils are backwards compatible for all previous ratings so they can be SG rated even when it meets the latest SM...So if you have an SG rated bottle of motorcycle oil and their is a blank API dohnut that means the oil is also certified for SM.....The bottle of oil cannot display the dohnut unless the oil meets the standards of the latest API rating which is now SM...So don't feel so bad for using a non energy concerving SM rated 10W40 auto oil....It's nothing other than clever marketing...

From Mobil's website

"Mobil Clean Oil 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 contain friction-reducing additives. The American Petroleum Institute (API) classifies these viscosity grades as "Energy Conserving" engine lubricants, and meet ILSAC GF-4. All four viscosity grades meet API SM and are backward compatible with earlier performance levels such as API SL,SH and SG."

And such it is with all oils that display "Energy concerving" on the label...Those are the ones that may have friction modifiers.


There's been talk that the new SM rating put limits on antiwear additives, but what folks don't know is it only applies to 10W30's and lower...The restrictions are not applicable to the 10W40's and higher...

db
09-20-2008, 05:48 AM
Very good posting, Whitesands. Oil threads are always interesting :sun:

FDM
09-22-2008, 08:25 PM
:wave:

I'd be one of the ones that could care less if it says "motorcycle" on the label or not. Oh yeah, I'm also one of the ones that logs over 25k miles a year via motorcycle and have yet to have one single oil related problem at all on any bike I've ever owned. Huh, go figure.

No I haven't seen any HP increases or decreases for that matter. No my fuel mileage hasn't gone up or down, and no the bike doesn't seem to run hotter or cooler.

As a matter of fact, my Amsoil rep even told me that the AMO Amsoil is the exact same formula as the "motorcycle" 10-40 oil that they sell. Also the oil marketed to "V-twin" owners is exactly the same as the regular 20-50 motorcycle oil. They just found out that many motorcycle owners (like some on this board) are paranoid and unless it has a neat sticker on it, that they think it will make their tranny's explode.

Oil is oil, and it just don't matter. Plain and simple, not if's and's or but's. It's worked for so many years, why would it not work now? Oh wait, it still does work now.

Yeah but you are using a full synthetic oil right? , What about just plain oil? I donít really see what difference it make either other than maybe some additives for the clutch, I use Motul 5100 because it was recommended by a friend of mine that has been a mechanic for many years, but heck what do I know I put Marvel Mystery Oil in my gasÖ.Iíve heard endless times about how it will hurt the motor but havenít seen that yet either.

DFW_Warrior
09-22-2008, 09:31 PM
Yeah but you are using a full synthetic oil right? , What about just plain oil? I donít really see what difference it make either other than maybe some additives for the clutch, I use Motul 5100 because it was recommended by a friend of mine that has been a mechanic for many years, but heck what do I know I put Marvel Mystery Oil in my gasÖ.Iíve heard endless times about how it will hurt the motor but havenít seen that yet either.

Yes, I am running a very high grade of Syn oil. But that has nothing to do with anything being better for the bike than conventional oil. The only reason I run it is because it doesn't seem to breakdown from heat near as fas as conventional oil. So therefore I can extend my change intervals much longer and spend more time riding and less time working on the bike. If I had to change the oil every 3k miles I'd be doing an oil change almost every month. No good.

See, I've always been a Sea Foam guy for fuel additives, but same difference as Marvel. Some people call it smoke and mirrors, and others swear by it. So I guess you and I are in the same boat.:lol2:

vamacher
09-23-2008, 01:58 PM
I did my 4000 mile oil change this past weekend. I removed the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil and put Castrol Syntec 10W40 with no special motorcycle designator in. After the first 200 miles it feels the same and I wasn't struck by lightning.:lol2: We'll see how she does in the long run.

FDM
09-23-2008, 06:40 PM
See, I've always been a Sea Foam guy for fuel additives, but same difference as Marvel. Some people call it smoke and mirrors, and others swear by it. So I guess you and I are in the same boat.:lol2:


No doubt about that, so far my KLR has been running really well with Marvel in it and my Bandit seems to like it to :trust: I guess there is some mystery behind it :lol2:

Now back to the oil, I would probably use Amsoil but it is not the easiest product to find, however I have only heard great reviews about it.

whitesands
09-24-2008, 05:05 AM
I did my 4000 mile oil change this past weekend. I removed the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil and put Castrol Syntec 10W40 with no special motorcycle designator in. After the first 200 miles it feels the same and I wasn't struck by lightning.:lol2: We'll see how she does in the long run.


lol....I've thought about using Castrol Syntec...I'm sure it will do just as well as any other group III oil...A uoa would be interesting.

MtnTrax
09-26-2008, 09:02 AM
Lot's of folks will say "don't use diesel, cause its made for diesel engines "....What they don't understand that diesel oils are also SM rated which means they can be used in gasoline engines...

Oil discussions are like talking religion or politics... plenty of beliefs but nobody's proven to be absolutely wrong. :doh: Read this article a while back and the guy sure makes a good case for the CI-4 diesel oils. I'm going this route on all my vehicles now from both a cost and benefit point.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
And the short version- http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#Oil

sproggy
09-26-2008, 09:31 AM
Oil discussions are like talking religion or politics... plenty of beliefs but nobody's proven to be absolutely wrong. :doh: Read this article a while back and the guy sure makes a good case for the CI-4 diesel oils. I'm going this route on all my vehicles now from both a cost and benefit point.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
And the short version- http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#Oil

By his own admission he's not an expert. 75 hours does not make him anywhere near qualified in this subject. Believe what he says if you will, but given enough words anyone can seem convincing in putting forward their beliefs. And a lot of what he says is opinion and belief, not fact.

Given 75 hours I could probably put forward a good argument for using olive oil in the engine of every bike on the planet. Some people might even believe me. But that doesn't make it correct.

DFW_Warrior
09-26-2008, 01:21 PM
By his own admission he's not an expert. 75 hours does not make him anywhere near qualified in this subject. Believe what he says if you will, but given enough words anyone can seem convincing in putting forward their beliefs. And a lot of what he says is opinion and belief, not fact.

Given 75 hours I could probably put forward a good argument for using olive oil in the engine of every bike on the planet. Some people might even believe me. But that doesn't make it correct.

How about this... I've only a few times used "motorcycle" oil in any of my bikes. Other than that I use that crap that is designed for cars. And not once, EVER, have I ever had an oil related failure of any kind. Oh yeah, and I only manage to log around 25k miles or so a year. So until someone can prove that it is doing any harm, I just don't buy it.

MtnTrax
09-26-2008, 02:24 PM
By his own admission he's not an expert. 75 hours does not make him anywhere near qualified in this subject. Believe what he says if you will, but given enough words anyone can seem convincing in putting forward their beliefs. And a lot of what he says is opinion and belief, not fact.

Given 75 hours I could probably put forward a good argument for using olive oil in the engine of every bike on the planet. Some people might even believe me. But that doesn't make it correct.
:drums:
So what's your definitive, absolute best, only acceptable gospel on what we should use? And please substantiate it with your own fact finding, in depth analysis or the subject shall remain cloaked in mystery and heresay till the heavens part....:zen:
And don't tell us olive oil cause it lowers your cholesterol.
A little something to start with- http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html
BTW, if I couldn't jump on the bike I'd be grouchy too, hope the arm heals quickly.

sproggy
09-26-2008, 03:23 PM
:drums:
So what's your definitive, absolute best, only acceptable gospel on what we should use?

Use what you want - I don't care. All I'm saying is that just because someone's taken the time to put his opinions in writing doesn't mean he's an expert. Ever heard the phrase "don't believe everything you read?".

And please substantiate it with your own fact finding, in depth analysis or the subject shall remain cloaked in mystery and heresay till the heavens part....:zen:

I haven't done any fact finding or made an in depth analysis because (a) I'm not an expert in the subject, and (b) I choose to trust the oil recommendations of the people who designed and extensively tested the engines in my vehicles. Call me crazy, but I choose to believe them, not someone who's spent 75 hours browsing the internet and who has come up with his own 'theories'. You can prove anything with facts if you choose the right facts and ignore the ones that don't fit your own beliefs/theories.

A little something to start with- http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

Sorry, but I'm not inclined to read it - it looks boring. Far too much time is spent discussing oil and it just doesn't interest me. I joined this discussion only because I found it odd that people should be inclined to follow the recommendations of someone who admits not to being an expert in the field. I'm not an expert either, but then I'm not making any recommendations!

BTW, if I couldn't jump on the bike I'd be grouchy too, hope the arm heals quickly.

I'm not grouchy. But thanks ;-)

DFW_Warrior
09-26-2008, 03:41 PM
Sorry, but I'm not inclined to read it - it looks boring. Far too much time is spent discussing oil and it just doesn't interest me. I joined this discussion only because I found it odd that people should be inclined to follow the recommendations of someone who admits not to being an expert in the field. I'm not an expert either, but then I'm not making any recommendations!

Wow.. so quick to knock someone's claims down a notch or two, yet far to busy to actually read something that might back them up. A true benefit to the motorcycling community! congrats.:clap:

:rofl:

Manfred
09-26-2008, 07:58 PM
I'm not an expert and use Amsoil 10W40 AMF motorcycle oil and a WIX filter. I don't care what anybody else uses :-)

whitesands
09-26-2008, 09:02 PM
From an engineer at SWRI where engine oils are certified talking about heavy duty engine oils:

"And as far as my background being "long haul HD trucks" having any meaning or bearing on this I'll just say, engines are engines, steel, iron, aluminum, etc... and they run the same oils and additives any engines do. There are no diesel vs gasoline vs racing vs whatever oils or additives. The physics are the same, it's all the same tribology and lubrication fundamentals. Matter of fact, the HD oil tests are far more severe than any of the gasoline tests. Only HD tests look at ring and cylinder wear and under very high loads, high temps, for 1000's of hours. "

DRW
09-27-2008, 01:18 AM
This is from an expert. I would think making these claims could only be made if they are willing to back them. http://http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert.html (http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServlet?FC=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/app_askourexpert.html)

sproggy
09-27-2008, 04:29 AM
Wow.. so quick to knock someone's claims down a notch or two, yet far to busy to actually read something that might back them up. A true benefit to the motorcycling community! congrats.:clap:

Wow, so quick to believe one person's view just because another person agrees with them. The fact that two people agree doesn't make them right, or necessarily worth listening to/reading. And just because one person disagrees or questions that doesn't mean there's a reason to knock them. I read what interests me and don't waste my time on things that don't.

Doing 25k miles a year on oil that's different from the engine manufacturer's recommendation makes you neither right nor an expert. It just means you choose to go your own way at your own risk, and so far that hasn't caused you any problems. Congratulations. How much of a benefit are you to the motorcycling community compared compared to.....oh, I don't know....me, for example?

achesley
09-27-2008, 06:52 AM
Oil threads or kinda like tire threads. Most all have their on beliefs, or , follow someone who they consider a guru on the subject. I've always been amused at the sometimes , heated debates in these threads.
Most old mechanics don't really care what other people use or their views. They just do what they want to do.
Maybe someone should start a Coolant thread? ;-).

DFW_Warrior
09-27-2008, 07:40 AM
I read what interests me and don't waste my time on things that don't.

Yep, you're a shining example......

Tell ya what, why don't you find me just one, yep just one case of any oil related failure of any motorcycle that was caused by improper oil choice. Why don't you get to work on that for us all?

I hope you do find one, because I've tried in the past and for the life of me I can't find one case that is confirmed that the oil caused a failure.

twist
09-27-2008, 08:35 AM
Until this whole oil controversy is settled I am going to stop using any of it! :eek2: That'll show ya :rider:

sproggy
09-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Yep, you're a shining example......

Of what?

Tell ya what, why don't you find me just one, yep just one case of any oil related failure of any motorcycle that was caused by improper oil choice. Why don't you get to work on that for us all?

Why don't I? Because as I thought I'd made clear enough, I don't care enough to waste my time doing that. You use the oil that you want to use and I'll use the oil that I want to use. Everyone else will do the same and we'll all be happy. If only...

All I tried to point out was that one person sounding convincing doesn't make him right. I wish I hadn't bothered now.

I hope you do find one, because I've tried in the past and for the life of me I can't find one case that is confirmed that the oil caused a failure.

I'm glad you're happy in the choice of oil that you've made. I'm happy in the choice I've made too. Can we stop this now?

pesto_boy
09-29-2008, 12:23 PM
I love oil threads; people really seem to get very defensive if their opinion is challenged.
Here is my 2 cents - and I believe it can hardly be disputed (but then again...).

Synthetic oil is superior to 'regular/dino' oil when it comes to breakdown due to heat, and has better flow in a cold engine - this has been tested and proven and I hope we can all agree on it.
With that said, it doesn't necessarily mean that dino oil will not give your bike the protection it needs, or that everyone should use synthetic. BUT knowing that an engine (ANY engine) generates heat, and that during cold starts any oil will take a certain amount of time to reach optimal viscosity, why not use an oil that will withstand heat better and have better flow in a cold engine?

DFW_Warrior
09-29-2008, 12:53 PM
BUT knowing that an engine (ANY engine) generates heat, and that during cold starts any oil will take a certain amount of time to reach optimal viscosity, why not use an oil that will withstand heat better and have better flow in a cold engine?

I agree with ya 100%. The only downside I can see to synthetic oil is for the folks that really don't ride all that often and change their oil based on time, and not mileage. For them, it would potentially be throwing extra money away for no real benefit.

pesto_boy
09-29-2008, 01:21 PM
I agree with ya 100%. The only downside I can see to synthetic oil is for the folks that really don't ride all that often and change their oil based on time, and not mileage. For them, it would potentially be throwing extra money away for no real benefit.

Yes I agree, synthetic is a little (or a lot) more expensive.
To be honest, because I do use synthetic, I usually change my oil based on mileage, regardless of time intervals... And that's another advantage of using synthetic, you can let it go a little longer without worrying about having 10w40 oil that has been broken down to 0w20.

tmurrayis
10-03-2008, 01:00 PM
The shop manual does not seem to discuss synthetic vs. semi or mineral.

FWIW my dealer stressed I not use my normal Amsoil fully synthetic until it has 10,000km (6,200 miles). He claims the small amount of extra friction aids in the break in process.

Here is the text:

Engine Oil (For USA)
Oil quality is a major contributor to your engineís
performance and life. Always select good quality engine
oil.
Suzuki recommends the use of SUZUKI
PERFORMANCE 4 MOTOR OIL or equivalent engine
oil. Use of SF/SG or SH/SJ in API with MA in JASO.
Suzuki recommends the use of SAE 10W-40 engine oil.
If SAE 10W-40 engine oil is not available, select and
alternative according to the chart.

Engine Oil (For Other Countries)
Oil quality is a major contributor to your engineís
performance and life. Always select good quality engine
oil. Use of SF/SG or SH/SJ in API with MA in JASO.
Suzuki recommends the use of SAE 10W-40 engine oil.
If SAE 10W-40 engine oil is not available, select an
alternative according to the chart.

twist
10-03-2008, 05:16 PM
He claims the small amount of extra friction aids in the break in process.

By that logic a hand full of sand would work wonders... :eek2:

DFW_Warrior
10-03-2008, 05:54 PM
By that logic a hand full of sand would work wonders... :eek2:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

mi1lertm
10-03-2008, 09:26 PM
Lot of talk of M1 4T 10W-40, I was told by my service department that any thing other then Suzuki oil would void the warranty, after I stoped laughing I let him know that as long as JASCO MA and other API Certs were met all is good. I had a gift card and decided to try the Suzuki 20W-50 since my dealer wants $14.50 a quart for 4T 10W-40 M1 (Checker Auto has same oil for ~$9.00). After getting used to the new clunking shifting I noticed that my mileage was now at about 37. I commute 44 miles to work each way (35 miles on interstate @ 4500RPM's) and have been getting close to 50 MPG. I was shocked to see such a decline in my mileage. After about 1800 miles I dumped the Suzuki oil and returned to M1 and my mileage has now returned to norm. I did not notice any metal on the magnet using the Suzuki oil (never seen any post break in with M1) and it was still clean.

Moral of the story is M1 is not bad for bike or mileage and will pay for its self in a few tanks.

GregH
10-04-2008, 10:17 AM
Lot of talk of M1 4T 10W-40...I commute 44 miles to work each way (35 miles on interstate @ 4500RPM's) and have been getting close to 50 MPG.

Your mileage jumped from 37 to 50 (a 35% increase) with only the oil change? I did not realize the oil could make that kind of difference.

(Note: I'm not beginning an oil flame [pun intended], I'm seriously asking.)

KenB
10-05-2008, 01:56 PM
Your mileage jumped from 37 to 50 (a 35% increase) with only the oil change? I did not realize the oil could make that kind of difference.

(Note: I'm not beginning an oil flame [pun intended], I'm seriously asking.)
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/842320/2/istockphoto_842320_flame_boy.jpg

mi1lertm
10-05-2008, 05:03 PM
It was more like 43Mph to 39Mph drop. I was trying to make a point. It was very noticable when I was paying $3.7x for mid grade fuel. I was/am getting around 200 miles on a tank with the M1 and taking around 4.5-4.7 gal to fill up. I was only getting 170 miles or so with the Suzuki 20W-50 and taking ~4.6 gal at fill up.


Mark

twist
10-05-2008, 05:11 PM
It was more like 43Mph to 39Mph drop. I was trying to make a point. It was very noticable when I was paying $3.7x for mid grade fuel. I was/am getting around 200 miles on a tank with the M1 and taking around 4.5-4.7 gal to fill up. I was only getting 170 miles or so with the Suzuki 20W-50 and taking ~4.6 gal at fill up.


Mark

How are you getting so many miles per tank?? I am lucky to get 125 before it starts blinking (I've never put 4 gallons in either). My mileage is running between 42 and 45 MPG on average.

KenB
10-05-2008, 05:16 PM
How are you getting so many miles per tank?? I am lucky to get 125 before it starts blinking (I've never put 4 gallons in either). My mileage is running between 42 and 45 MPG on average.
The 1250's fuel warning light is an early bird. Mine normally comes on at about 125-135 but it still has about 2 gallons left in the tank. My range is typically between 220-240 miles per tank.

DFW_Warrior
10-05-2008, 05:18 PM
How are you getting so many miles per tank?? I am lucky to get 125 before it starts blinking (I've never put 4 gallons in either). My mileage is running between 42 and 45 MPG on average.

Wait, so these things have a 5.0 gallon tank, you are lucky to get 125 miles before the light starts blinking, and you are getting 42 miles per gallon?

I think that puts the Bandit as the winner of the "who has the largest reserve of any bike made" category.:clap:

twist
10-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Well now I'm starting to doubt myself... :doh:

yes the fuel light starts blinking at around 125 miles +/- 5

My mileage has been around 42 MPG (ave.)

I think I'll let it go until the fuel bar AND the fuel pump is blinking just to see how much farther I can go.

...but yeah, I'm confused too now... :loco:

A1A
10-06-2008, 10:25 AM
Well now I'm starting to doubt myself... :doh:

yes the fuel light starts blinking at around 125 miles +/- 5

My mileage has been around 42 MPG (ave.)

I think I'll let it go until the fuel bar AND the fuel pump is blinking just to see how much farther I can go.

...but yeah, I'm confused too now... :loco:

twist,

When the mark (fuel tank) starts flicking you have 5.8 US qt. left in the tank. When the mark and the last segment both start flickering you have 1.6 US qt. left in the tank. Thought I'd remind you of this so you won't run out of fuel in the middle of no where.

HTH's

mi1lertm
10-06-2008, 11:00 AM
I usally wait for the pump and bar to blink (true reserve), in the summer >100 Deg F, I have seen > 50mpg thanks to the air mass flow sensor keeping the injection pulses small. However, now that its getting colder my mpg's are hovering near 42-43. But, when I was using the Suzuki 4T oil, I was in the mid 30's for mpg. I still believe that the M1 4T will pay for its self in no time. Was surprised to see the gas @ $3.12 today. Who know's we might see sub $3.00 this winter.

whitesands
10-07-2008, 05:15 PM
Gas should start coming down real quick..Gasoline futures were at $2.05 today and usually there is about $.50 to $.60 between the futures price and the price you see at the pump...Gas should be at most $2.70 or so right now but the shutdown in Houston has kept the prices up but once everything is running and the gas stations begin receiving gas at the cheaper prices it should come down real quick pretty soon.

twist
10-08-2008, 08:33 PM
Well to follow up on my earlier discussion... although this thread had gotten off the synthetic oil topic: :doh:

Rode the bike to 151 miles - which is much farther than ever before (let the flashing pump go for awhile, but filled it at 151 miles because I have work tomorrow and would rather not deal with getting gas during the morning rush hour).

I filled it with 3.4 gallons (at $3.35 per gallon) which works out to 44 MPG.

So at 3.4 gallons, it looks like I had 1.6 to go until empty (about another 44 miles until both pump picture and bar would start flashing).

Man, that stupid pump starts flashing "low fuel" with almost another 60 miles until you're on "reserve" - that's one pesty signal. :giveup:

Oh - and I use Mobil one for autos (15-50), buy it at Costco, it's cheap and I like it.

Rcdd
10-09-2008, 08:32 AM
Having a heeluva time finding Mobil 15w50 here in Louisiana........Ended up putting in Rotella for this change......But will be back to the Mobil1, as soon as I can find it...And will buy a few next time I do find it....

Anyone else having trouble sourcing it?....

Oh BTW, using HiFlo filters (P/N HF138). Got 4 off FleaBay for $23.00. Changing them ever-other oil change......

treybrad
10-09-2008, 01:40 PM
Having a heeluva time finding Mobil 15w50 here in Louisiana........Ended up putting in Rotella for this change......But will be back to the Mobil1, as soon as I can find it...And will buy a few next time I do find it....

Anyone else having trouble sourcing it?....

Oh BTW, using HiFlo filters (P/N HF138). Got 4 off FleaBay for $23.00. Changing them ever-other oil change......

I usually can find it at Walmart, but none of my local autoparts stores ever have it in stock...

http://www.fleetfilter.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=51

They've got pretty good deals on filters if you like Wix. Wix #51359 - $5.88/ea and shipping is pretty cheap...

trey

mi1lertm
10-10-2008, 06:05 AM
Having a heeluva time finding Mobil 15w50 here in Louisiana........Ended up putting in Rotella for this change......But will be back to the Mobil1, as soon as I can find it...And will buy a few next time I do find it....
QUOTE]

15W-50 is a bit thick, for winter riding might see some oil starvation on startup. Bike calls for 10W-40 sub 110F. If you look at the product data sheet for 15W-50; cSt @ 40C is 131.2 seconds, cSt @ 100C is 18.1 seconds.

This data is the time that a known amount of oil takes to flow through a known sized hole (indsty Std).

10W-40 has cSt @ 40C of 86.0s and @ 100C, 13.8s.

Looking at Viscosity Index for both products; 10W-40 is @ 164, 15W-50 is @
154. This gives you the amount of change in the viscosty due to temp, the higher the number the better it holds its viscosty.
In my car I use the 0W-40 M1 that has a VI of 186.
The higher the number the better the oil is (some what of a grade scale).

I would be carefull on using this thick of an oil. Old school racers used 50W oil back in the 80's before synth took over, now you see racers using synth
0W-20 or 0W-30 for better acceleration. Motorcycle oil has more Phos/Zinc which helps decrease wear and stop shearing under stress.

Cheers,

Mark

twist
10-10-2008, 10:17 AM
First my disclaimer of ignorance (maybe it's already obvious...) :giveup:

The chart in the manual says 15-50 is ok down to zero degrees Fahrenheit (I stop riding when it gets below 40 degrees - not much time left now... :( ).

I know that motorcycle oils have/claim more anti wear stuff, but for me it doesn't make sense economically. I don't think the Bandit is under more stress than my car (maybe if it was a sport bike revving at 13,000 RPMs, but the bandit is rarely over 6,000 RPMs). So for me it's just an economic decision.

And has been pointed out by some, I personally believe the bike would last just about as long using 7-11 brand 30 weight oil with regular changes as with... (fill in the blank). :rider:

Rcdd
10-10-2008, 10:27 AM
It doesn't get too cold down here in the Bayou...I was worried about the exact opposite, as it gets hot for the poor Bandit....:sun:

And I always let the bike warm up a few minutes before hopping on .....And truthfully, the Mobil1 makes the bike shift so much smoother....

mi1lertm
10-10-2008, 11:25 AM
Understood, however listen to the engine on a cold start up, if you hear some tapping that goes away in a few sec (10-15) that is a sign of oil starvation. Those number that I gave are an industry standard, 15W-50 is mostly used in fleet diesel's. The stress/shear/heat of a big rig diesel will kill normal oil. Since your normal startup temp is < 25C ~77F your cSt is much longer. Back in the days of pushrod motors oil did not have to move very far away from the sump to do it's job. With the advent of OHC motors it was noticed that valve train oil starvation became an issue since oil had to be pushed farther to reach the OHC and valves. Most modern cars are using 5W-30, however, motorcycles have larger oil ports then cars (RPM >> 6500), there could still be an issue of trying to move cold molasas through a straw. Your oil filter bypass will open under these situations and alow thick oil to pass but you then lose oil filtering ability and possibly spread dirt/metal/ect through the motor.

I am not telling you to ditch the heavy oil, but 10W-40 will increase you MPG's and accel times, as well as, limit engine wear on cold startup's. Moreover, with todays tighter clearances thicker oil will be more apt to shear if forced between small clearances.

Again, use what you feel comfortable with. I was just quantifying the differences between oil weights to give you an idea of their flow dynamics. The heavy oil takes > 2min to flow through a hole @ 104F, that tells me that in the am (40-60F?) startup, that number could be > 4min (guess).

Cheers

Mark

A1A
10-10-2008, 12:31 PM
Just a few words of information regarding dino, or synthetic oil. In accordance to the Suzuki Manual.

10W in Multigrades is good down to -4 degrees F.

15W in Multigrades is good down to 9 degress F.

20W in Multigrades is good down to 14 degrees F.

All multigrade oils depending on which one your using will be 10W, 15W or
20W on cold engine start ups. As the engine warms multigrades viscosity start to change and eventually become the 40 or 50 weight oil. Of coure this with the understanding the oil is fresh. Also both 40 and 50 weight oils are good to over 104 degrees F. ambient temperture.

HTH's

twist
10-10-2008, 05:32 PM
I stand by my earlier statement:

First my disclaimer of ignorance (maybe it's already obvious...) :giveup:

:rofl:

achesley
10-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Both Wally World and AutoZone here in Jennings,La. have 15W50 Mobil 1. I used it all the time in my R11 , R1150 Beemers. Been staying with my old favorite Castrol GTX 10W40 for the last V Storm and the present Bandit and KLR.
You can talk to the Auto Dept manager at Wally world and they can order it for you if nothing else. I've done that with BMW filters and stuff before.

red757
10-12-2008, 01:06 AM
I've started using olive oil and I gained like 10HP plus 5 from the stickers that came with the bottle, plus you can use the left over for baking. Works out great.:rofl:

whitesands
10-12-2008, 01:11 AM
Both Wally World and AutoZone here in Jennings,La. have 15W50 Mobil 1. I used it all the time in my R11 , R1150 Beemers. Been staying with my old favorite Castrol GTX 10W40 for the last V Storm and the present Bandit and KLR.
You can talk to the Auto Dept manager at Wally world and they can order it for you if nothing else. I've done that with BMW filters and stuff before.


Hows the GTX feel in the Bandit ? I was thinking of going to a 10W40 for winter....Been using the Rotella 15W40.

achesley
10-13-2008, 07:49 PM
Hows the GTX feel in the Bandit ? I was thinking of going to a 10W40 for winter....Been using the Rotella 15W40.

So far the GTX is doing just fine with the Bandit. I used the same oil in my DL1000 for 16K miles before I traded it for the Bandit. I've been using the GTX in my KLR for 8 years , no problems and the Cams look good upon inspection at 22K miles.

Many years ago when hot rodding the old '77 750GS Suzys, we run into a cam gualding problems with the high lifts and bigger valve springs. Going to GTX solved the problem for us way back then and I never forgot them . Maybe some of the other oils out then may have solved our problems but was advised to try this by a few works mechs I knew of.

FDM
10-13-2008, 08:01 PM
I've started using olive oil and I gained like 10HP plus 5 from the stickers that came with the bottle, plus you can use the left over for baking. Works out great.:rofl:


:doh: :doh: :doh:

MetrickMetal
10-13-2008, 08:21 PM
I've started using olive oil and I gained like 10HP plus 5 from the stickers that came with the bottle, plus you can use the left over for baking. Works out great.:rofl:


Are you using OO, VOO or EVO?

Rcdd
10-13-2008, 08:23 PM
come on....10 hp?....it's gotta be evo.....:rofl: