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Roy
05-22-2008, 07:49 AM
Anyone used one? Reason I ask is I just mounted a new set front and rear and I am getting the dreaded low speed wobble with no hands on bars or very light pressure on the bars at about 37~42 mph. It does it with the bags off or on makes no difference. A little more doticeable with the bags on and loades. For reference the steering bearing has been checked and the torque is good. Balance of the tire seems okay it was digitally balanced at the shop. It does have more weight on a front tire than I would like to see (5) 1/4 ounces. The tire does not appear to have any out of roundness I have spun it and it looks pefectly round. I experienced this on a V-Strom 1000 with a Metzler tourance front tire and never figured it out. One thing I think may have an effect is the Bandits in-accurate chain adjustment notches. If the chains not straight seems the bike would do this. funny how it did not do this with the old Pilot Power front or crappy Dunlop front. I have re-checked the axle aligment procedure and re-torqued the clamp bolts. I know this is not the problem. It is perfectly fine everywhere but that one zone, turns in great and sticks good. I am leaving for 4 days this afternoon so I do not have time to really mess with it today. It will have about 1500+ miles on it when I get back. Wonder if its just a bad front tire? or the Bandit just does not like the profile of the Road 2's.

Arbee
05-22-2008, 08:20 AM
If you can nominate the speed you have an out of balance harmonic,

try somewhere else balancing is an art form...

Brass
05-22-2008, 09:03 AM
Years ago I came across the same problem on a little honda 650 Hawk GT. What fixed it was taking some spring preload out of the rear. :-?
That was the only adjustment available on that bike. Maybe it's worth looking at making a suspension adjustment?
:shrug: :confused:

Roy
05-22-2008, 09:39 AM
I have been doing some reading on the subject and have all but concluded the chain alignment is the culprit in my case. I just got off the phone with the shop that mounted and balanced the tires and he told me they "zeroed" out but offered to re-check it. Nice offer but I just don't have the time today. I bet money its the chain alignment since I know the chain rides up against the rear sprocket on the inside with the adjustment marks equal on each side. Great build quality Suzuki:doh: It is more pronounced on the Bandit the way the axle rides way back on the adjustment range. El Bandito will be getting some of my money very soon, as soon as I can get back from this trip. I may adjust it by eye with the chain in the middle of the sprocket and see if that makes a difference. I checked the other day just fooling around and to get the chain in the middle the marks were off 1 full mark:eek2: from left to right side. Sadly I did not take it for a spin after I did the little experiment and just set it back by the equal marks.

Roy
05-22-2008, 09:40 AM
Years ago I came across the same problem on a little honda 650 Hawk GT. What fixed it was taking some spring preload out of the rear. :-?
That was the only adjustment available on that bike. Maybe it's worth looking at making a suspension adjustment?
:shrug: :confused:

Rear preload is on 6 right now with the load. I ride normally on 3 with no load. Front has 3 lines showing all the time.

Lost Yankee
05-22-2008, 11:24 AM
If you run out of ideas, I'd suggest to check the steering head bearing for tension.

bones
05-22-2008, 11:26 AM
My suggestion is to check the steering head bearing for tension.
For reference the steering bearing has been checked and the torque is good.
;-)

suzukijo
05-22-2008, 01:00 PM
my experience, limited as it is, is that the common reason for oscillation, is an uncommon wear pattern on the tires. if both tires are new, i dont have any clues, other than the rear wheel being grossly out of line.

as suggested, tightening the steering head adj, making it act like a dampner can help, but does not cure the problem, it only masks the problem, and is not the cause.

if both tires are new, i have no clue other than to check everything and or go back to normal, no accessories. (but thats no help i know)

with new tires, mine is rock steady, hands off.

(day off work, just got thru vaccuming, with laundry in the wash, i'd rather be surfing twt!)

SteelD
05-22-2008, 01:50 PM
I have Pilot 2s front and rear and the bike handles extremely well. They've got good reviews in the UK. The only 'oddity' is that the correct fitment of the front tyre makes it look like it is back-to-front but it's not - see pic below (the front is on the left).

Dink.1170
05-22-2008, 03:39 PM
I reckon the most important question is "what are you doing with your hands off the 'bars at 37-42mph?"
Most instances of this sort of thing happening are due worn rear and new front tyres. I also have the "tankslapper king"a Suzuki GSX1100ef (GS1150 to the 'muricans) and it has only ever wobbled or otherwise misbehaved on me twice, both times on the way to fit new tyres.

Dink

ceddec
05-22-2008, 05:23 PM
I have them front and rear but on a different bike. They are the best I've come across. What air pressure do you run? I've found 39 psi to 41 psi work best in my case.

Evoid
05-23-2008, 03:41 PM
I just fitted a pilot road 2 to the rear and a pilot power to the front ..... and it works great ... no wobbles just awesome grip and very quick turn in.;-)

Trailduster
05-24-2008, 09:29 PM
I just got a Road 2 on the front, 1k on the P-Road rear, They feel good, no issues. If that wobble does not stop, take it back.

biker59
05-26-2008, 05:44 AM
Try removing the weight. That seems an lot for a front tyre.The wheel balancer in the shop that was used could be out of calibration.A few bikes ago I had a front tyre renewal done by a local tyre shop and had the same symptons as you are getting.I removed the weight and removed the problem.Try the cheap and easy way first

Brass
05-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Roy,

Now that you're back, did you find a cure for the wobble?

Roy
05-27-2008, 05:44 AM
Roy,

Now that you're back, did you find a cure for the wobble?

nope. It is definetly chain alignment related I did some experimenting while gone. Marks are way off on this bike. I am going to re-balance the wheel myself either today or tomorrow afternoon. Not too sure that will help.

ed29
05-27-2008, 08:09 AM
Question here.... when you said the steering head bearing has been checked... was that by you, or by a dealer tech? I ask because my dealer greased some parts on my bike (at least the work order says they did) and on my next service interval I checked them and they were dry as a bone. Missed factory lube, not lubed by tech that signed off as having done.

It is worth checking for yourself. Dry head bearings get sloppy very fast, and the slightest play in there will make the bike very sensitive to wobble induced by other factors such as tire tread pattern, balance issues, or chain alignment. You may have uncovered a head bearing issue with the tire swap.

Roy
05-27-2008, 08:46 AM
Question here.... when you said the steering head bearing has been checked... was that by you, or by a dealer tech? I ask because my dealer greased some parts on my bike (at least the work order says they did) and on my next service interval I checked them and they were dry as a bone. Missed factory lube, not lubed by tech that signed off as having done.

It is worth checking for yourself. Dry head bearings get sloppy very fast, and the slightest play in there will make the bike very sensitive to wobble induced by other factors such as tire tread pattern, balance issues, or chain alignment. You may have uncovered a head bearing issue with the tire swap.


It was done by me and well within spec. I've done this for years on many type bikes from dirt to street. No dealer touches my bike. They only mounted the tires because that was part of the deal buying them there. I took them the wheels only. 5 1/4 ounce weights on once side of the wheel does not look right too me and I have balanced tires for years. I have access to the Marc Parnes balancer where I mount my tires. No issues ever and I mount alot of track tires on my GSX-R1000. I discovered this past weekend on my trip that about 85 mph I feel a vibration coming from the front. I called that shop last week about the balance and they said no way it could be off, well it is and I won't be back. As for the chain alignment marks yes they are off but it did not really have this wobble until the new tire went on last week. Combination of both not sure different profile on the road 2 verses the Power front I had before. I'll get it sorted this week or ditch the Road 2 front in favor of the Power front and run the Road 2 rear for mileage.

ed29
05-27-2008, 09:14 AM
Very well, and I hope I did not come across wrong, or critical of your work so far. Sounds like you have it well in hand.

Willie
05-27-2008, 01:12 PM
It was done by me and well within spec. I've done this for years on many type bikes from dirt to street. No dealer touches my bike. They only mounted the tires because that was part of the deal buying them there. I took them the wheels only. 5 1/4 ounce weights on once side of the wheel does not look right too me and I have balanced tires for years. I have access to the Marc Parnes balancer where I mount my tires. No issues ever and I mount alot of track tires on my GSX-R1000. I discovered this past weekend on my trip that about 85 mph I feel a vibration coming from the front. I called that shop last week about the balance and they said no way it could be off, well it is and I won't be back. As for the chain alignment marks yes they are off but it did not really have this wobble until the new tire went on last week. Combination of both not sure different profile on the road 2 verses the Power front I had before. I'll get it sorted this week or ditch the Road 2 front in favor of the Power front and run the Road 2 rear for mileage.

Hey Roy, just want to make sure this isn't the problem. Front axle torqued to 72.5 ft. lbs.?? Before the axle holder bolts are tightened?? This front end oscillation was common of older BMW's and was related to the sequence of putting the axle in and torque...

Roy
05-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Hey Roy, just want to make sure this isn't the problem. Front axle torqued to 72.5 ft. lbs.?? Before the axle holder bolts are tightened?? This front end oscillation was common of older BMW's and was related to the sequence of putting the axle in and torque...

Willie yes I am aware of the floating front axle I have had it on other Suzuki's before. You also must bounce it up and down without the brakes applied and pinch bolts loose before torquing them. Doing this makes certain the forks are not binded.

Willie
05-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Willie yes I am aware of the floating front axle I have had it on other Suzuki's before. You also must bounce it up and down without the brakes applied and pinch bolts loose before torquing them. Doing this makes certain the forks are not binded.

Just wanted to bring this up, as it has caused problems with other models and brands..

Roy
05-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Just wanted to bring this up, as it has caused problems with other models and brands..


And it is a good thing you did as I am sure most are unaware of the correct fitment of the front wheel on the Bandit.

AXEL
05-27-2008, 10:04 PM
The front end wobble you're experiencing can be caused by many things but I've found the two most likely reasons to be. Incorrect tire pressure and/or insufficent fork spring preload. If you're still using the stock fork springs try increasing preload to max. If your wheel isn't balanced properly I think you would be feeling more of an up and down vibration at a higher speed.

Roy
05-30-2008, 09:40 AM
UPDATE: I re-balanced the front tire yesterday using a friends Marc Parnes static balancer. Findings were it was out of balance from the dealer. However it took 6 1/4 oz. weights verses the dealers 5 1/4 oz. weights to bring it in to spec:eek2: Bad tire maybe I dunno but if I had the time I'd re-break it down spin it on the rim and re-balance it, might make it better. But it is in balance now so I move on. I split the 6 weights 3 on each side. It is smooth and the wobble while still there is barely noticeable I can live with the results considering I ride with a loaded E460 Givi top case all the time which does not help matters.

Willie
06-08-2008, 10:51 AM
UPDATE: I re-balanced the front tire yesterday using a friends Marc Parnes static balancer. Findings were it was out of balance from the dealer. However it took 6 1/4 oz. weights verses the dealers 5 1/4 oz. weights to bring it in to spec:eek2: Bad tire maybe I dunno but if I had the time I'd re-break it down spin it on the rim and re-balance it, might make it better. But it is in balance now so I move on. I split the 6 weights 3 on each side. It is smooth and the wobble while still there is barely noticeable I can live with the results considering I ride with a loaded E460 Givi top case all the time which does not help matters.

After a little over a week, what's the verdict Roy???

dmerc
06-08-2008, 05:32 PM
You obviously know what you're doin', cuz you split 'em equally per side, but it
sounded like the Dealer put all 5 weights on ONE side? That alone would do it. I static balance all my own tires too. Michelins don't have the mark to line up with the valve stem, which I've always found to be a bit arrogant. ESPECIALLY considering they always need weights!!:mrgreen:

Roy
06-09-2008, 07:00 AM
After a little over a week, what's the verdict Roy???

All is well no shimmy after my balance work.

Roy
06-09-2008, 07:01 AM
You obviously know what you're doin', cuz you split 'em equally per side, but it
sounded like the Dealer put all 5 weights on ONE side? That alone would do it. I static balance all my own tires too. Michelins don't have the mark to line up with the valve stem, which I've always found to be a bit arrogant. ESPECIALLY considering they always need weights!!:mrgreen:

As a long time Michelin tire user I find this odd too. Usually they do not take but at best (3) 1/4 oz. weights on a front tire but there is always that one, the one I got recently.:lol2:

dmerc
06-09-2008, 07:28 AM
As a long time Michelin tire user I find this odd too. Usually they do not take but at best (3) 1/4 oz. weights on a front tire but there is always that one, the one I got recently.:lol2:

Hey Roy, where are those made....it should say on the sidewall.

I work at a BF Goodrich plant(Michelin owned), we're mostly truck/SUV tires.


Anyhow, just got new BFG G-Force tires for my wife's car (we get a 30% rebate from Michelin) and checked hers, they were made in THAILAND!! I was less than thrilled! A salary guy just got some for his wife's car, hers were made in the USA.....figures!:mrgreen:

But, I have no idea who/where, makes the M/C tires.....just curious!!

I put Pilot Roads on my 04 FZ1, but it's long gone, and I never thought to check where they came from.

Roy
06-09-2008, 07:38 AM
Hey Roy, where are those made....it should say on the sidewall.

I work at a BF Goodrich plant(Michelin owned), we're mostly truck/SUV tires.


Anyhow, just got new BFG G-Force tires for my wife's car (we get a 30% rebate from Michelin) and checked hers, they were made in THAILAND!! I was less than thrilled! A salary guy just got some for his wife's car, hers were made in the USA.....figures!:mrgreen:

But, I have no idea who/where, makes the M/C tires.....just curious!!

I put Pilot Roads on my 04 FZ1, but it's long gone, and I never thought to check where they came from.

I will take a look at 1st break this morning its in the parking lot outside right now.

TWTourist
06-09-2008, 08:58 AM
Roy,

I have had that problem on several bikes like my Wing and FJR which are shaft driven. Changing the from Avon to PR cured the FJR. No cure yet on the Wing.

If you believe the Internet, the allz ballz bearings will cure the problem on the Wing. But I always felt that it was a balance problem. Good to know I now have proof thanks to you.:clap:

Roy
06-09-2008, 09:07 AM
Roy,

I have had that problem on several bikes like my Wing and FJR which are shaft driven. Changing the from Avon to PR cured the FJR. No cure yet on the Wing.

If you believe the Internet, the allz ballz bearings will cure the problem on the Wing. But I always felt that it was a balance problem. Good to know I now have proof thanks to you.:clap:

Balancing is and art and I am a firm believer in static balance on a motorcycle. Go to any racetrack and all you will see is static balance taking place no computer balancers to be found. Taking your time you can get a tire perfectly balanced. The Marc Parnes balancer shaft and bearing assembly does a wonderful job. Shop mechanics (if you can call them that) don't care your tire is just another number to them and they will slap it on a computer balancer and get it wrong most of the time because they simply do not care to re-do it if the 1st attempt fails, if close they will let it go. On the front tire that will show up instantly. If you can balance a wheel to where it does not move at all once balanced in the 3 o'clock & 9 o'clock positions your good to go. It really is that simple. After you have done a few you can almost guess the weight from the amoutn of spin. I use old weights with a small piece of tape to get the approximate amount and location then once balanced add my fresh weight in the same amount of used weight, works great.

Quick-Silver
06-09-2008, 09:43 AM
I had an experience once that may give you something to think about. I had a flat on the front of my VTX 1300R in Victoria that turned out to be a bad valve stem. The Honda shop in Victoria installed a new metal angle valve stem and balanced the tire.

Immediately upon leaving the Honda dealership I applied the brakes hard at a red light and the bike felt like it didn't want to stop. At the time I didn't think anything about it other than maybe there was some grease or oil on the front break rotor. On that bike I rarely used the rear breaks.

The first time I took the bike up to 70 mph there was a hard shimmy or wobble in the front end. I immediately thought the guys didn't balance tire. I had to wait until the following Tuesday to get the bike in to my dealer in San Antonio to get it checked out. I told them my story and the first thing they did was to check the tire balance. To get the tire balanced they would have had to put almost the exact amount of weight the dealer in Victoria had used but just about 180 degrees across the wheel.

We surmised that when I first applied the brakes hard in Victoria that the tire slipped and traveled around on the wheel from the lubricant used to mount the tire. The guys in the shop told me that after a tire change I should always wait a while for the lubricant to dry before hitting the breaks hard.

Something for you to think about. In your case I think I would check to be sure the wheels were in balance, both front and rear.

Good luck.

Roy
06-09-2008, 09:56 AM
Hey Roy, where are those made....it should say on the sidewall.

I work at a BF Goodrich plant(Michelin owned), we're mostly truck/SUV tires.


Anyhow, just got new BFG G-Force tires for my wife's car (we get a 30% rebate from Michelin) and checked hers, they were made in THAILAND!! I was less than thrilled! A salary guy just got some for his wife's car, hers were made in the USA.....figures!:mrgreen:

But, I have no idea who/where, makes the M/C tires.....just curious!!

I put Pilot Roads on my 04 FZ1, but it's long gone, and I never thought to check where they came from.

Tire was made in Spain.

dmerc
06-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Tire was made in Spain.

Thanks, was just curious! I kinda' expected Asian.