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View Full Version : Asphalt/ Chip and Seal- Why?


slowoldguy
05-26-2008, 08:30 PM
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas? Materials? They are just smarter? Someone powerful owns a bike? What?


East of 45 on FM's this trip, maybe 40-50% asphalt. West of 35? Zero. I mean we have none. Nada . Zilch. Naught.


Why?


Asphalt is smooth, grippy. Switch to chip and steal you can feel it in the bars and pegs instantly.

I really like asphalt better. So do my tires. So, what gives?

kurt
05-26-2008, 08:34 PM
My guess is that east Teaxas lacks the aggregate to make chip seal cost effective. Here in central Texas we got nothing but rocks and the quarries to produce them. At least we are starting to build freeways out of concrete instead of the constant resurfacing of the older ones.

RTL
05-26-2008, 09:22 PM
Q. What is Chip Seal and Seal Coat?
A. The process is commonly referred to in the highway industry as Asphaltic Surface Treatment, or "Chip Seal" in Louisiana or "Sealcoat" or "Surface Treatment" in Texas. It is a method of protecting the expensive base and sub-grade of a pavement structure from the harmful infiltration of water, and providing a beautiful new driving surface. Generally the process consists of distributing a thin layer of hot asphaltic liquid onto the surface of a newly prepared base or existing pavement. Small rock chips are then spread over the liquid asphalt before it hardens. The rock chips may be rolled with a rubber-tired compactor and then any remaining loose chips may be swept away. The rock chips protect the asphalt from tire traffic and provide a nice driving surface. Multiple courses or layers may be applied.

I copied this from a TX-DOT contractor web site. Note "provide a nice driving surface" part!

bluedogok
05-26-2008, 09:48 PM
Except it doesn't do what is intended to do which is protect the base. I think lining the contractors pockets is the true purpose.

kurt
05-26-2008, 09:50 PM
Except it doesn't do what is intended to do which is protect the base.

I have the proof!

http://cdn-1.psndealer.com/e2/dealersite/images/halshd/tar.gif

wonder91178
05-26-2008, 09:53 PM
I hate chip seal :argh:

klb1122
05-26-2008, 10:00 PM
I hate chip seal :argh:

+1 :thumbd: :miffed: :angryfire :shame: :rant:

V-lust
05-26-2008, 10:00 PM
In a previous life I served an eight year sentence as a county commissioner.:doh: At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt. When your moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.:rider:

Gilk51
05-26-2008, 10:19 PM
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas?

Dunno - I saw quite a bit of chip-seal in east Texas during some rides last year. Northeast of Bonham has just about all the FMs surfaced in chip-seal.

And have you ridden US69 between I20 and Tyler? :eek2:

That is the roughest chip-seal I have ever seen! No chips - more like 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks embedded in the tar/asphault. I can see that stuff eating tires - 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers alike... :giveup:

bluedogok
05-26-2008, 10:24 PM
In a previous life I served an eight year sentence as a county commissioner.:doh: At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt. When your moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.:rider:
The problem is that on 90% of the roads they use it on around here are currently asphalt, not gravel. In that use it is complete junk.

KenH
05-26-2008, 11:03 PM
Since when has tar been refered to as "hot asphaltic liquid"? Since garbage men have become "sanitation engineers", I guess. That sorry excuse for pavement is called "tar and gravel" in the rest of the world. Just wait until the summer heat causes the tar to melt and ooze up through the gravel. Said tar then is picked up by whatever tire rolls over it and slings all over the vehicle. Not to mention how slick hot, soft tar really is. When it rains, the tar is even slicker. I predict a lot of bikes will be destroyed on such roads this summer.

RTL
05-27-2008, 07:15 AM
Bicyclists hate it even worse than motorcyclists or motorists do!

ColGoodnight
05-27-2008, 07:18 AM
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas?

At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt.

East Texas population density > West Texas. More users per mile = more folks to pay ~ has the potential to = better road construction.

When you're moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.

Ah, love riding the little chip seal roads through the Texas country side.

Tom

Stephen Max
05-27-2008, 09:29 AM
Bicyclists hate it even worse than motorcyclists or motorists do!

Inline skaters hate it more than bicyclists.

dhdrider
05-27-2008, 10:37 AM
Inline skaters hate it more than bicyclists.
Barefooted walkers hate it more than inline skaters.:lol2:

They did that crap in my neighborhood more than a year ago and I still track in pieces of rocks w/ tar on them into my house...:headbang:

gotdurt
05-27-2008, 11:41 AM
East Texas uses it too. When I lived in Huntsville, I cycled a lot... at least until they covered every beautifully paved road in Walker county with chip seal... It doesn't just suck for bicycles and motorcycle either; ever noticed how incredibly loud the road noise in a car is on chip seal?

What's funny is they'll cover a perfectly good road in the stuff, then within a week it'll be destroyed from braking and acceleration, with patches of bare tar and washboard-like bumps. Needless to say, whoever it is at TXDOT that thinks it's a great idea ain't too bright :roll:

SparkyBlue
05-27-2008, 12:45 PM
Cheap seal is ok if done properly, but almost never is. The wrong size aggregate, too cold temperature, too much delay or uneven applying the aggregate or oil will always yield a disaster. And not sweeping the loose gravel afterward.

what is worse lately is 'textured' pavement, the bane of motorcyclists. I even wrote the Wood Co maintenance engineer explaining the faults.

Don't expect things to change much with TXDOT. They are too busy lobbying to build the TTC.

kurt
05-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Most of the chip seal in my area is applied by the county, not TxDot. The head of Wilco roads suggested I drive in the ditch if it bothered me.

klb1122
05-27-2008, 12:58 PM
Most of the chip seal in my area is applied by the county, not TxDot. The head of Wilco roads suggested I drive in the ditch if it bothered me.

:eek2:

I hope you are joking... but it doesn't sound like it. :giveup:

slowoldguy
05-27-2008, 01:13 PM
As far as the greater population driving the roads argument in favor of "East Texas asphalt, Central Texas chip and steal"....uh...uh. Not buying it. The roads we were on were very, very lightly traveled and this was on a holiday weekend between two popular lake destinations.

I think TxDoT is looking in the couch cushions for that billion bucks they "misplaced". I sure hope they stole it. I'd hate to think they were all just that stupid. What a bunch of incompetents. Fire all of the top brass.

V-lust
05-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Cheap seal is ok if done properly, but almost never is.

Don't expect things to change much with TXDOT. They are too busy lobbying to build the TTC.

SparkyBlue, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. The success of a chip seal job seems to depend on luck, as much as experience and knowledge! :trust: The first job my county crew did 12 or so years ago was a first for us all. They even insisted the commissioner drive the oil truck! :eek2: I don't know how but that road is still better than some we did with much better equipment and a lot more experience.

TXDOT doesn't change much! When I left office 6 years ago the TXDOT budget for FM roads was about the same (and not adjusted for inflation) as it was when the program started in the early fifties! Much of the money that previously went to infrastructure needs has been diverted to other uses, so our elected representatives can still buy votes and tell us our taxes are going down!:doh:

KenH
05-27-2008, 05:10 PM
SparkyBlue, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. The success of a chip seal job seems to depend on luck, as much as experience and knowledge! :trust: The first job my county crew did 12 or so years ago was a first for us all. They even insisted the commissioner drive the oil truck! :eek2: I don't know how but that road is still better than some we did with much better equipment and a lot more experience.

TXDOT doesn't change much! When I left office 6 years ago the TXDOT budget for FM roads was about the same (and not adjusted for inflation) as it was when the program started in the early fifties! Much of the money that previously went to infrastructure needs has been diverted to politicians' pockets, so our elected representatives can still buy votes and tell us our taxes are going down!:doh:

There, I fixed it for you.

AutoRotate
05-27-2008, 06:15 PM
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas? Materials? They are just smarter? Someone powerful owns a bike? What?


East of 45 on FM's this trip, maybe 40-50% asphalt. West of 35? Zero. I mean we have none. Nada . Zilch. Naught.


Why?


Asphalt is smooth, grippy. Switch to chip and steal you can feel it in the bars and pegs instantly.

I really like asphalt better. So do my tires. So, what gives?

I have noticed that the east Texas counties plentiful with oil/natural gas seem to have the best roads. Take Panola County, for example, I don't believe there is an unpaved road in the county. Do the oil companies help pay for the roads for their trucks to get to the wells? I'm not sure. I know, until a few years ago, they would even Asphalt your driveway to the front of your house as long as "it wasn't too much." Maybe that has something to do with it???? I'm not sure.

Toe
06-03-2008, 01:37 PM
I have a question to go along with this thread...
.Is the chip seal that is worn down to just the base slippery?

I am talking about in the tire tracks where it looks smooth like black ice in the sun. Maybe is is just that ice look that ruins my confidence in the corners, but it just does not look like it has the traction of a nice asphalt, concrete road, or a chip sealed road that is in good shape.

BTW...I was out riding this morning north east of McKinney (FM2933, FM545, FM1377, FM1827) and noticed that "they" are preping to put a new layer on some of these roads as there are huge piles of aggregate out there.

gotdurt
06-03-2008, 01:47 PM
I just discovered yesterday that Steck, between Mopac and Mesa, was just chip-sealed (like over the weekend)... and it's already torn up! I (as do many others) ride my bicycle down that stretch to get to work, and have a few choice words for those responsible... :argh:

Teeds
06-03-2008, 05:55 PM
When your moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.:rider:

A matter of opinion, at best. I greatly prefer rutted up gravel over most any road surface. If I am lucky enough to have grass growing down the middle, even better.

You guys need to get the right bike for the road. My knobbies grip really well on chip seal. :trust:

The roads around Greasemonkey's place near Centerville are either chip seal, oiled sand or gravel ... they are all good. Oiled sand is really fun. Grips similar to asphalt, but roosts like gravel! ;-)

SparkyBlue
06-03-2008, 06:26 PM
Good chip seal is ok if done right, otherwise can be like riding on marbles.

Toe
06-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Good chip seal is ok if done right, otherwise can be like riding on marbles.

My question is where the rocks have worn away and just the tar stuff is left.. that shinny slippery looking black stuff... will the tires grip that, or does it get squirrelly like tar snakes can be (especially when hot) ?

kurt
06-03-2008, 06:49 PM
That oozing tar is as slick as snot when the temperature is up or it is wet.

John Bennett
06-04-2008, 08:48 AM
That is the roughest chip-seal I have ever seen! No chips - more like 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks embedded in the tar

Hahahahha!

I agree.

Also, chip seal seems to chew up my expensive motorcycle tires really fast. I also experience more "float" when cornering hard on chipseal than on hotmix. My theory is that the chunky aggregate provides less actual surface contact with my tires than does hotmix.

SparkyBlue
06-04-2008, 09:14 AM
. My theory is that the chunky aggregate provides less actual surface contact with my tires than does hotmix.

+1 Agree, there are lots of ways to screw it up.