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Asphalt/ Chip and Seal- Why?

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slowoldguy

slowoldguy

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West of Waco.
First Name
Tom
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Hancock
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas? Materials? They are just smarter? Someone powerful owns a bike? What?


East of 45 on FM's this trip, maybe 40-50% asphalt. West of 35? Zero. I mean we have none. Nada . Zilch. Naught.


Why?


Asphalt is smooth, grippy. Switch to chip and steal you can feel it in the bars and pegs instantly.

I really like asphalt better. So do my tires. So, what gives?
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

My guess is that east Teaxas lacks the aggregate to make chip seal cost effective. Here in central Texas we got nothing but rocks and the quarries to produce them. At least we are starting to build freeways out of concrete instead of the constant resurfacing of the older ones.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Q. What is Chip Seal and Seal Coat?
A. The process is commonly referred to in the highway industry as Asphaltic Surface Treatment, or "Chip Seal" in Louisiana or "Sealcoat" or "Surface Treatment" in Texas. It is a method of protecting the expensive base and sub-grade of a pavement structure from the harmful infiltration of water, and providing a beautiful new driving surface. Generally the process consists of distributing a thin layer of hot asphaltic liquid onto the surface of a newly prepared base or existing pavement. Small rock chips are then spread over the liquid asphalt before it hardens. The rock chips may be rolled with a rubber-tired compactor and then any remaining loose chips may be swept away. The rock chips protect the asphalt from tire traffic and provide a nice driving surface. Multiple courses or layers may be applied.

I copied this from a TX-DOT contractor web site. Note "provide a nice driving surface" part!
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Except it doesn't do what is intended to do which is protect the base. I think lining the contractors pockets is the true purpose.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

bluedogok said:
Except it doesn't do what is intended to do which is protect the base.
Click to expand...

I have the proof!

tar.gif
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

In a previous life I served an eight year sentence as a county commissioner.:doh: At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt. When your moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.:rider:
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

slowoldguy said:
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas?
Click to expand...

Dunno - I saw quite a bit of chip-seal in east Texas during some rides last year. Northeast of Bonham has just about all the FMs surfaced in chip-seal.

And have you ridden US69 between I20 and Tyler? :eek2:

That is the roughest chip-seal I have ever seen! No chips - more like 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks embedded in the tar/asphault. I can see that stuff eating tires - 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers alike... :giveup:
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

st driver said:
In a previous life I served an eight year sentence as a county commissioner.:doh: At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt. When your moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.:rider:
Click to expand...
The problem is that on 90% of the roads they use it on around here are currently asphalt, not gravel. In that use it is complete junk.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Since when has tar been refered to as "hot asphaltic liquid"? Since garbage men have become "sanitation engineers", I guess. That sorry excuse for pavement is called "tar and gravel" in the rest of the world. Just wait until the summer heat causes the tar to melt and ooze up through the gravel. Said tar then is picked up by whatever tire rolls over it and slings all over the vehicle. Not to mention how slick hot, soft tar really is. When it rains, the tar is even slicker. I predict a lot of bikes will be destroyed on such roads this summer.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Bicyclists hate it even worse than motorcyclists or motorists do!
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas?
Click to expand...

At that time the cost of chip seal was 30% to 40% of hot mix asphalt.
Click to expand...

East Texas population density > West Texas. More users per mile = more folks to pay ~ has the potential to = better road construction.

When you're moving up from a gravel road chip seal is a great improvement.
Click to expand...

Ah, love riding the little chip seal roads through the Texas country side.

Tom
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Stephen Max said:
Inline skaters hate it more than bicyclists.
Click to expand...
Barefooted walkers hate it more than inline skaters.:lol2:

They did that crap in my neighborhood more than a year ago and I still track in pieces of rocks w/ tar on them into my house...:headbang:
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

East Texas uses it too. When I lived in Huntsville, I cycled a lot... at least until they covered every beautifully paved road in Walker county with chip seal... It doesn't just suck for bicycles and motorcycle either; ever noticed how incredibly loud the road noise in a car is on chip seal?

What's funny is they'll cover a perfectly good road in the stuff, then within a week it'll be destroyed from braking and acceleration, with patches of bare tar and washboard-like bumps. Needless to say, whoever it is at TXDOT that thinks it's a great idea ain't too bright :roll:
 
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Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Cheap seal is ok if done properly, but almost never is. The wrong size aggregate, too cold temperature, too much delay or uneven applying the aggregate or oil will always yield a disaster. And not sweeping the loose gravel afterward.

what is worse lately is 'textured' pavement, the bane of motorcyclists. I even wrote the Wood Co maintenance engineer explaining the faults.

Don't expect things to change much with TXDOT. They are too busy lobbying to build the TTC.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

Most of the chip seal in my area is applied by the county, not TxDot. The head of Wilco roads suggested I drive in the ditch if it bothered me.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

kurt said:
Most of the chip seal in my area is applied by the county, not TxDot. The head of Wilco roads suggested I drive in the ditch if it bothered me.
Click to expand...

:eek2:

I hope you are joking... but it doesn't sound like it. :giveup:
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

As far as the greater population driving the roads argument in favor of "East Texas asphalt, Central Texas chip and steal"....uh...uh. Not buying it. The roads we were on were very, very lightly traveled and this was on a holiday weekend between two popular lake destinations.

I think TxDoT is looking in the couch cushions for that billion bucks they "misplaced". I sure hope they stole it. I'd hate to think they were all just that stupid. What a bunch of incompetents. Fire all of the top brass.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

SparkyBlue said:
Cheap seal is ok if done properly, but almost never is.

Don't expect things to change much with TXDOT. They are too busy lobbying to build the TTC.
Click to expand...

SparkyBlue, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. The success of a chip seal job seems to depend on luck, as much as experience and knowledge! :trust: The first job my county crew did 12 or so years ago was a first for us all. They even insisted the commissioner drive the oil truck! :eek2: I don't know how but that road is still better than some we did with much better equipment and a lot more experience.

TXDOT doesn't change much! When I left office 6 years ago the TXDOT budget for FM roads was about the same (and not adjusted for inflation) as it was when the program started in the early fifties! Much of the money that previously went to infrastructure needs has been diverted to other uses, so our elected representatives can still buy votes and tell us our taxes are going down!:doh:
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

st driver said:
SparkyBlue, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. The success of a chip seal job seems to depend on luck, as much as experience and knowledge! :trust: The first job my county crew did 12 or so years ago was a first for us all. They even insisted the commissioner drive the oil truck! :eek2: I don't know how but that road is still better than some we did with much better equipment and a lot more experience.

TXDOT doesn't change much! When I left office 6 years ago the TXDOT budget for FM roads was about the same (and not adjusted for inflation) as it was when the program started in the early fifties! Much of the money that previously went to infrastructure needs has been diverted to politicians' pockets, so our elected representatives can still buy votes and tell us our taxes are going down!:doh:
Click to expand...

There, I fixed it for you.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

slowoldguy said:
Anyone know why there is more asphalt in East Texas? Materials? They are just smarter? Someone powerful owns a bike? What?


East of 45 on FM's this trip, maybe 40-50% asphalt. West of 35? Zero. I mean we have none. Nada . Zilch. Naught.


Why?


Asphalt is smooth, grippy. Switch to chip and steal you can feel it in the bars and pegs instantly.

I really like asphalt better. So do my tires. So, what gives?
Click to expand...

I have noticed that the east Texas counties plentiful with oil/natural gas seem to have the best roads. Take Panola County, for example, I don't believe there is an unpaved road in the county. Do the oil companies help pay for the roads for their trucks to get to the wells? I'm not sure. I know, until a few years ago, they would even Asphalt your driveway to the front of your house as long as "it wasn't too much." Maybe that has something to do with it???? I'm not sure.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

I have a question to go along with this thread...
.Is the chip seal that is worn down to just the base slippery?

I am talking about in the tire tracks where it looks smooth like black ice in the sun. Maybe is is just that ice look that ruins my confidence in the corners, but it just does not look like it has the traction of a nice asphalt, concrete road, or a chip sealed road that is in good shape.

BTW...I was out riding this morning north east of McKinney (FM2933, FM545, FM1377, FM1827) and noticed that "they" are preping to put a new layer on some of these roads as there are huge piles of aggregate out there.
 
Re: Asphalt/ Chip and Steal- Why?

I just discovered yesterday that Steck, between Mopac and Mesa, was just chip-sealed (like over the weekend)... and it's already torn up! I (as do many others) ride my bicycle down that stretch to get to work, and have a few choice words for those responsible... :argh:
 
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