RideSmart Track Day - 10.05.2008 @ MSR Cresson, TX

[ciaka]

Hello again folks.

Now that we head into the month of October, we have an event scheduled on the 5th at the MSR Cresson track. Those who have not experienced it are missing out on a great and fun place to ride. With some straights and sweepers, the track is sure to put a smile under that helmet.

The event will take place this Sunday. The weather is shaping up nicely too.

To register, CLICK HERE (http://ridesmart.info/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=R&Category_Code=100508R)

MSR Web site link: http://www.motorsportranch.com/


Thanks for all your support and interest. Stay safe out there.



RideSmart Staff
www.RideSmart.Info
512.469.9491

[Loyd]

:rider:

[shirazk]

What time do the gates open in the morning? Can you stay overnight like ECR?

[ciaka]

I believe they do not lock up the gates (dummy lock only).
May want to check with Dave (he will know).

What time do the gates open in the morning? Can you stay overnight like ECR?

[ciaka]

Just double checked. MSR does not lock their gates. One can get in at any time.

[z_clark]

I am looking forward to my first track day! I'll be arriving around dark on Saturday night. I know there will be some familiar TWT folks there and look forward to meeting new folks too.

Oh, and what are y'all doing for dinner?

See y'all there! :wave:

[msnyder755]

Well I was going to go but my boss has other plans....:doh:

Is the MSR Houston event still on for the 11th I think it is

[ciaka]

The MSR Houston event is on November 1, 2008. It is still on.
I really want to go to MSR Cresson since the weather is shaping up good and this may be one of the few last good day weather days we will have (at least chances of it will decrease after this).
Plus, I know MSR and can really have some fun there.





Well I was going to go but my boss has other plans....:doh:

Is the MSR Houston event still on for the 11th I think it is

[ciaka]

RideSmart will be providing dinner on Saturday night (burgers, hot dogs, side dishes). Same will happen on Sunday lunch.

[ed29]

I will be pulling in early Sunday morning for my first track day.
The anticipation is potent!

[poser]

I'll be at the MSR Houston event on Nov 1st

[Loyd]

I will be pulling in early Sunday morning for my first track day.
The anticipation is potent!

They running a seniors cass?:-P

[ciaka]

...and after you get your first time over with, you will say.....more please!!! :rofl:


I will be pulling in early Sunday morning for my first track day.
The anticipation is potent!

[IDR]

They running a seniors cass?:-P

I hope so!! :coffee: Because I'm in. See you all there Sunday. :wave:

[ed29]

They running a seniors cass?:-P


ehhh?? What's that ya say sonny?? My hearing ain't so good in my old age.;)

Yup, it is my first time on a paved track, so I am in the first time level one class as appropriate... for now. Once I un-learn the weight shifting and sliding from the old flat track days and get the new weight shifting techniques burned into muscle memory I should be fine.


Thanks again for the leathers from a pay it forward a long time back Loyd, I finally get to actually use them.

[TejasFJR]

looks like it's going to be a pretty good twtex turn out.

[ciaka]

heeeehaww....I just got permission too. c u all there.

[shirazk]

Everyone brings a SV, we want to see some FJR peg grinding....



I will be pulling in early Sunday morning for my first track day.
The anticipation is potent!

[ed29]

Sorry to disappoint, but I will be on the SV... Now Saturday night at the Drag Wars is a different story. I will be on the FJR then!

[james9793]

What are the event hours?

I plan on riding down with my youngest daughter after church; maybe heading out from SW FW around 11:00 am or high noon.

[poser]

What are the event hours?

I plan on riding down with my youngest daughter after church; maybe heading out from SW FW around 11:00 am or high noon.

typically first session starts at 9:00 and the day ends at 5:00
that how it is at TWS, I would think Cresson would be the same

[DFW_Warrior]

Okay, so this may come off as a negative post, but I think the feedback might be needed.

I went out the the track day today to watch a buddy do his thing. I stayed for the parade lap because I had a ton of people telling me that it's how they got hooked and it's a pretty cool thing to do anyhow so why not.

But here are some things I noticed while I was there.

First, it was crowded. Oops, may that VERY crowded. Level 1 looked more like a parade lap for 20 minutes instead of a track day. There were bottlenecks at several of the corners throughout multiple sessions. It just looked like there were more riders than the track could safely handle.

Next, rules, what rules? There were several level 1 riders that I talked to and they were told that there would be no passing whatsoever until after lunch. Yet on the first session after the round robin there was passing a plenty. Now I don't know the official rules, but if you have different instructors telling their specific groups different things it can lead to misunderstandings and also a potentially dangerous situations on the track.

Also, during the parade lap do the rules not apply at all to the people on the track? There were people riding with sleeveless shirts, no helmets, kids (less than 10 years old) with no gear on the backs of some of the bikes, and so forth. For a minute I thought we would be turning off the track at some point and heading to Sonic for a bike night or something.

I was honestly considering going to a track day and trying it out, but now I'm not sure that it would be a wise decision. Please take this feedback and do something constructive with it, or I feel that you may lose some potential as well as some returning customers.

[Loyd]

ehhh?? What's that ya say sonny?? My hearing ain't so good in my old age.;)

Yup, it is my first time on a paved track, so I am in the first time level one class as appropriate... for now. Once I un-learn the weight shifting and sliding from the old flat track days and get the new weight shifting techniques burned into muscle memory I should be fine.


Thanks again for the leathers from a pay it forward a long time back Loyd, I finally get to actually use them.

Your very welcome. Odd to think those were my first ever leathers almost 9 years ago...:mrgreen:

I saw you come off the track a couple of times but couldn't find you in the pits. Maybe next time.

[blackhawk]

I was doing corner work today for turns 3,4,5,6, and 7. This was the area farthest away from the paddock, and this was my viewpoints about what DFW_Warrior mentioned:


First, it was crowded. Oops, may that VERY crowded. Level 1 looked more like a parade lap for 20 minutes instead of a track day. There were bottlenecks at several of the corners throughout multiple sessions. It just looked like there were more riders than the track could safely handle. .

You are somewhat correct here.. Dave was talking at 6:30 this morning that Level 1 was really full, and was looking for instructors to bump people to Level 2 , or even give self bump if you thought you could handle it.

As for the bottle necks, there was two major problems. That would be two riders were way to slow to be on the track.. even for level one. My understanding was that one of them had taken a bad fall sometime before and was getting back into it, but they did cause a lot of bottle necks at the corners. Do you pull them from the track? I dunno that would be Dave’s call. But I know I would not have enjoyed Level 1 today.


Next, rules, what rules? There were several level 1 riders that I talked to and they were told that there would be no passing whatsoever until after lunch. Yet on the first session after the round robin there was passing a plenty. Now I don't know the official rules, but if you have different instructors telling their specific groups different things it can lead to misunderstandings and also a potentially dangerous situations on the track. .

The rule is….
For Level 1 & 2, No passing in the corners until after lunch, and then only on the outside. Passing on the straights is allowed.
Level 3 & 4, passing is allowed.
I did not see any bad passes at all today…even around the slow guys!


Also, during the parade lap do the rules not apply at all to the people on the track? There were people riding with sleeveless shirts, no helmets, kids (less than 10 years old) with no gear on the backs of some of the bikes, and so forth. For a minute I thought we would be turning off the track at some point and heading to Sonic for a bike night or something. .

This surprised me as well… I rode at ECR a couple of weeks ago and watched Dave get on a kid in the paddock area riding without a helmet on a pit bike. I agree… Ridesmart should not allow anyone without a helmet, at the least, on the track. Last week at the CMRA races at ECR, the parade lap was the same way, but twice as crowded.


I was honestly considering going to a track day and trying it out, but now I'm not sure that it would be a wise decision. Please take this feedback and do something constructive with it, or I feel that you may lose some potential as well as some returning customers.

I would still highly recommend RideSmart… my experience at ECR was outstanding. If it was not for the two slow bikes on the track today, Level 1 would have flowed much better.. even with the numbers on the track.

I am planning on attending RideSmart at MSR on Nov 9th….(if the weather is good)… come on and give it a try!

[Chris_750]

I worked corner eight... ya they were laid back with rules. I saw three riders down (they crashed on there own accord), but for the most part everyone was riding safe and responsible and having a good time.

Some observations however....1. overqualified riders need to be moved up 2. instructors should limit high speed passes 3. traffic bottlenecks for level 1 need to be addressed as quick as possible.

[Chris_750]

^^^^^+1 on what Bill said

[liltxfreebird]

Good to see Ed out there!!! Welcome to an addition to your riding addiction :sun:
Can't wait to have my Sv back on the track so I can come back and play too :mrgreen:

[Loyd]

I worked corner eight... ya they were laid back with rules. I saw three riders down (they crashed on there own accord), but for the most part everyone was riding safe and responsible and having a good time.

Some observations however....1. overqualified riders need to be moved up 2. instructors should limit high speed passes 3. traffic bottlenecks for level 1 need to be addressed as quick as possible.

Bottlenecks happen due to discrepencies in skill levels. There are a few methods to solve this preached, mostly on deaf ears, all day long in class. Catch is, you have to attend the class. I was in lvls 2 and then 4 today. Neither was really flowing well. They couldn't have been for me to pass as many folk as I did in each level.

Crap happens. It happens more when you have a group ontrack that refuse to attempt to police themselves. In order to be policed by marshals/instructors...incidents have to be reported. You get numbers for your bikes for both praise and fussing. ;-)

Myself I had a great day! On street tires no less! For Free!!!:rider:

I was reprimanded for not passing in the right spot. I still had a ball. Apparently you can get carried away with fun after 7ish years and still forget the rules. :mrgreen:

I'd say if your on the fence, get on your bike and attend an event to decide for yourself. A little knowledge and experience dramatically alter one's perspective from watching across the fence.:sun:

[Loyd]

I worked corner eight... ya they were laid back with rules.

I'm curious, since I've never worked corners for Dave, how many incidents of various sorts were reported by you cornerworkers? Are you not also to be helping to enforce the rules somewhat?

[Chris_750]

Anyone know who was the rider in level 4, white gsx-r with a blue bottom, big red dot (the loudest bike on the track). He was awesome!, had a great time watching him through the corners.

[Chris_750]

I'm curious, since I've never worked corners for Dave, how many incidents of various sorts were reported by you cornerworkers? Are you not also to be helping to enforce the rules somewhat?

Your right, black flags should be used. Who was that rider:eek2:

[blackhawk]

I'm curious, since I've never worked corners for Dave, how many incidents of various sorts were reported by you cornerworkers? Are you not also to be helping to enforce the rules somewhat?

Your right, black flags should be used. Who was that rider:eek2:

I did not see any infractions that seemed to warrant the Black flag, other than the two holding everyone up in Lvl 1 … but the decision that came across the radio was to leave them out there.


2. instructors should limit high speed passes


Chris… What are you meaning by high speed passes?
The rate at which one overtakes the another? If yes I would have to disagree… as long as the fast rider gives the slower rider a wide enough gap .. no problem…. Bumping elbows in the pass would not be good… in this “school” setting.

[blackhawk]

I saw three riders down

http://mysite.verizon.net/jrwam/pic_hosting/TWT/MSRriderdown.jpg

Anyone know who was the rider in level 4, white gsx-r with a blue bottom, big red dot (the loudest bike on the track). He was awesome!, had a great time watching him through the corners.

Video of said rider: (http://mysite.verizon.net/jrwam/pic_hosting/TWT/smoothrider.avi)

[Chris_750]

I did not see any infractions that seemed to warrant the Black flag, other than the two holding everyone up in Lvl 1 … but the decision that came across the radio was to leave them out there.



Chris… What are you meaning by high speed passes?
The rate at which one overtakes the another? If yes I would have to disagree… as long as the fast rider gives the slower rider a wide enough gap .. no problem…. Bumping elbows in the pass would not be good… in this “school” setting.

:giveup:

[blackhawk]

opps.. linky did not work
try this...
http://www.youtube.com/v/yjo0Bslo1Ak&hl=en&fs=1

[fast_yellow]

Anyone know who was the rider in level 4, white gsx-r with a blue bottom, big red dot (the loudest bike on the track). He was awesome!, had a great time watching him through the corners.

His name was Robert Duncan. He ended up winning the smoothest rider for level 4. He was awesome to watch.


For the 2 bikes in level 1 that seemed to be the main cause for the bottlenecks most of the day, they were being escorted by their instructors for most of the day as well. The instructors were taking them around a couple of laps and then pitting to give the bottlenecks time to open up a little and give constructive feedback to help them improve. It was decided to leave them out during the sessions and not blackflag them because they were already in level 1 sessions, and being tended to by their instructors. It was pretty crowded today in most levels. My hats off to all the instructors. They all seemed very skilled and eager to help each and every rider with constructive feedback as they pitted between laps several times during each session throughout the day.
It was surprising to me that most of the mishaps and "rideoffs" ocurred in levels 3 and 4 and seemed to be caused by excessive speed coming into the curves.

[DFW_Warrior]

I'd say if your on the fence, get on your bike and attend an event to decide for yourself. A little knowledge and experience dramatically alter one's perspective from watching across the fence.:sun:

I agree with you 100%. I just don't know if I will choose RideSmart for my first track day. I would love to use them if I hear that certain things are addressed, maybe like sayyyyy enforcing the rules, and limiting class sizes. When or if I hear of these things happening I would love to spend my money with them.

[ed29]

Okay, I have to chime in here on a couple of points.

In our level one classes prior to the round robin and right after we were clearly instructed that there will be no passing before lunch. After lunch passing on the straights and outside of corners was allowed.

In the second track session we were dusted by riders on the straights buzzing by at tremendous differential speed. The rules of the day seemed to flex to fit the flow of the day as when we got to class we were told that we must have mis understood the instructions. Three quarters of us protested while the rest slumped down in their chairs.

After lunch traffic in L1 thinned out and the fun started. There were close calls caused by exuberance and novice riders (of which I am one on the track) exploring and expanding personal skills limits. The only time I felt endangered was when a blue and white bike tried to pass inside of me on turn 4, the downhill left. I was on lie heading to the apex cone and the blue and white appeared in my peripheral vision on a collision course. I looked over at him to see where he was headed and he stood it up on the brakes. Now I was off line when I looked ahead again, so I just railed around outside hoping that (1) He scrubbed enough speed to not hit me as I turned, and (2) I would not drift into the marbles.

I flubbed a downshift setting up for 9 just as I passed an instructor and made some noise with the back tire sliding around. It settled right down when I got back on the gas and I kept my momentum going.

Overall I enjoyed the day.

I have two suggestions for RideSmart.

First, set a cap on level one and stick to it. If a rider drives 300 miles but did not bother to register in advance that is their problem. Don't make it mine by adding them to a level one class that is at or over capacity. Doing so is unsafe.

Second, set standards for safety gear for the parade lap and stick to them. Allowing helmet-less riders in tee shirts to run the parade lap was a bad call. It left a very unfavorable impression on the participants that were on the fence about doing a track day of their own. The RideSmart parade lap at Eagles Canyon was key in my choice to do my first track day with RideSmart. That day was very different than yesterday where the parade lap was concerned.

Please don't water down that marketing tool by being too nice to too many people. Set safety standards and stick to them.

Like I said... overall it was a wonderful day and I had fun. I will do another one.

[dhdrider]

Hey guys, thnks for the feedback. I was not able to attend yesterday's event, but will definitely take this information to my weekly lunch meeting w/ Dave Wonders. I cannot speak to the pasing rules (that were talked about in class) since I wasn't there. The general rule is that after the round-robin, we allow passing in the straights. Passing on the outside of corners is usuallly allowed after lunch. However, both rules are subject to change by the instructors. Not allowing passing at all is not sometjing I have seen since I have been a level 1 instructor. It is possible that they wanted to be more cautious yesterday.

My guess is that there were some students that did not go to class and thus, did not hear the instrcutions to NOT pass at all.

Again, I will definietly have discussions about the day with Dave.

Please keep the feedback (good and bad) coming.

We appreciate your business.:clap:

[z_clark]

My first track day was GREAT! I had a great time, and picked up some new skills. I started slow in the first two sessions. By the afternoon, I picked up some speed, and was getting around better. I was still no speed demon, but I was having fun! I'll put up some pics in a few days! I slept good last night and am a bit sore this morning.

I agree with Ed. I was confused about the passing as well.

The track was too full. The pit was an option, but I was always coming up on the caravan right after the pit. My 250 didn't have much steam for passing in the straights.

Instruction was just ok. After looking at the pics online, I could have used some major help on body position. The instructors were very available for questions.

After yesterday I am planning on another track day! I am unsure if it will be with Ridesmart or another provider.

[dhdrider]

The track was too full.

Ciaka & I have been working w/ Dave on this ALL year. 2 major things contributed this.

W/ all of the track days available this year, filling up has not been an issue all year long (w/ the exception of 1 or 2 events).

Also, with all of the track days available, registration is empty until a week before the event. I had lunch w/ Dave last Tuesday and there were less than 30 riders registered (for all 4 levels combined). The weather forecast came in and the registrations spiked w/ in a day to be full.

All I can say is I will take the info to Dave and see what we can work out. (As far as getting the registration link pulled). Right now, it is a manual thing. But, we need to see of this can be automated.

[poser]

Instruction was just ok. After looking at the pics online, I could have used some major help on body position. The instructors were very available for questions.

After yesterday I am planning on another track day! I am unsure if it will be with Ridesmart or another provider.

my understanding is they get into body position more in level 2 instruction (I'm assuming you were in level 1)
neing your first day, I wouldn't worry about you body position too much. You'll be surprised how much of it will come nature even on your second track day.

[Loyd]

I agree with you 100%. I just don't know if I will choose RideSmart for my first track day. I would love to use them if I hear that certain things are addressed, maybe like sayyyyy enforcing the rules, and limiting class sizes. When or if I hear of these things happening I would love to spend my money with them.

Here's the rub. I've had way worse days than what you saw at events run by other vendors. I've also had great days at those same vendors events on other days. I'd wager that you'll simply get out of your trackday what you put into it. If your a grumpy/nervous/stay out of my personal buffer area kinda rider you're likely going to not have as much fun as if you'd tried to be more open minded. You will NOT pick it all up in a day. You won't even have much of a clue how much you don't know until you make a few events. Having said that, track riding isn't for everyone. It sure gives you a better idea on how to handle your bike, and what it is really capable of doing. It also alters how you view lane progression. ie: No way you can make a bike do in an 8ft lane what you can on a 30ft lane. Hope to see you riding soon...just don't mangle your tire-changing arm.;-)

[ed29]

Feeding the addiction is fun! After seeing the photos shot I treated myself to the purchase of a print for the living room and a couple of downloads for other uses. Just another 'incidental' expense. :trust:

[DFW_Warrior]

Loyd, I have every intention of doing one of these things soon. I just want to see some things change first. There were too many people in L1 yesterday plain and simple. The track was just too full. If I see a cap on registered riders put into place and actually followed, then that is a big step.

If RideSmart would more consistently enforce the rules that "they" make, then that's yet another big bonus. And if they need help enforcing the rules than what the hey, call me up, I'll work for free track days. What I'm hoping for is that someone from the RideSmart camp will eventually come on here and say, "We have done "a,b,and c" in response to the concerns we heard here." If that happens that consider me signed up. If not, well, I'll stick with getting my thrills on the street and in the dirt.

[z_clark]

Ed, they got quite a few good pics of you! One of you chasing me through "The rattlesnake"....right before you passed me. :doh:

I plan on getting 3 or 4 of my favorite pics as well. The photographer did a quality job.

The more I reflect on the day, the more I want to do another one!!!

[dhdrider]

Loyd, I have every intention of doing one of these things soon. I just want to see some things change first. There were too many people in L1 yesterday plain and simple. The track was just too full. If I see a cap on registered riders put into place and actually followed, then that is a big step.

If RideSmart would more consistently enforce the rules that "they" make, then that's yet another big bonus. And if they need help enforcing the rules than what the hey, call me up, I'll work for free track days. What I'm hoping for is that someone from the RideSmart camp will eventually come on here and say, "We have done "a,b,and c" in response to the concerns we heard here." If that happens that consider me signed up. If not, well, I'll stick with getting my thrills on the street and in the dirt.
You will see a response to this soon. I just cannot post it up yet, as Ciaka & I have not yet had our meeting w/ Dave this week.

I have already talked to a Level 1 instructor that was there yesterday.

He confirmed 2 things.

1) In the level 1 classroom, after the 1st round-robin session, they were very clear that passing WAS allowed in the straight aways, and NO passing (inside or outside) of turns till after lunch (where outside corner pasing might be allowed if they deemed it OK). If a level 1 student thought there was no passing at all, then they mis-understood or did not attend the class.

2) Level 1 was over-filled due to walk-ups. The same could be said for level 2 as well. I am not stating this to say that is was OK this was done, just the reason for the over-filling. Dave has a tendency to "feel sorry" for guys that make the trip and might have to be turned away. You can rest assured that Ciaka & I (along w/ ALL the other instructors) do NOT share this feeling. IMO, if you fail to register early, or fail to call Dave and inquire about available space, you have made the choice to risk not being able to ride. This is a huge issue for Ciaka & I. We have actually made the call a couple of times (w/o letting Dave know) and we have contacted the web guy to remove a registration link to prohibit over-crowding. We really could not do that this time since the issue was walk-ups. We have made progress w/ this issue this year. Anyone that rode w/ RideSmart the past few years will tell you that the over-crowding issue has goten MUCH better. But, that doesn't make it OK.

Stay tuned for more details on how we will handle this. Thanks again for your help.

[TejasFJR]

This was my third TD with RideSmart and though the morning did feel crowded thanks to the overcrowding and the bottlenecking that took place every now and then, I found that pitting and waiting for more open track helped quite a bit. The afternoon was really a pleasure as the track warmed up and the crowd thinned.

It did seem that there was some confusion about the passing in the morning. I quite clearly heard that passing was only to be done in the straights but only if you could clearly initiate and complete the pass safely. But when I walked back to saddle up my buddy asked if we were cleared for passing on the straights.

[ed29]

:popcorn:
Awaiting the results of that meeting.

I will grant that with all of the instructions coming out that some of us first timers may have been overwhelmed regarding the no passing instructions. However it was not just one or two of us that heard no passing at all before lunch.

That's about all I have to say about that anyway. I want to focus on the good stuff.

[DFW_Warrior]

You will see a response to this soon. I just cannot post it up yet, as Ciaka & I have not yet had our meeting w/ Dave this week.

[snippy]

Stay tuned for more details on how we will handle this. Thanks again for your help.

Thank you a million Jason! I look forward to hearing of what comes from the meeting later in the week.:mrgreen:

[IDR]

I can't comment on level 1 because I was in level 2. When we first started it did seem like a lot of bikes on the track but as we all started to feel comfortable we all spread out and the track was busy but not uncomfortable. What I really enjoyed about my group was we started out, even in the round robin, at a good quick pace so even though we were following the instructor it was not boring. Later in the day as things warmed up and the pace quickend I was a little taken back by some of the instructors that were lets say "hot lapping" and at first I thought going too fast. But as I watched their lines and etc. as they passed me it encouraged me to be a little more aggressive. When you can watch a corner being taken at a much faster pace than your comfortable with, then you know it can be done and all you have to do is apply your skills with confidence, tip it in at the right place, remember to breathe, and you've learned you can do it too. IMO, RideSmart did a good job at managing a lot of male egos and still providing a days worth of fun. :clap:

[TejasFJR]

Pics are up btw.

http://www.hart-photography.com/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewGallery=3904

[blackhawk]

There definitely needs to be caps on number of riders in the levels. If you do not register in time or walk up, you may just be out of luck. That would have to be helpful for RS staff planning. You could offer a tiered fee schedule to encourage early registration and payment.
For example:

$100 for registering early
$125 from early register ending up to the week before
$150 for the week of and walk ups (if space is available)

But I completely understand wanting to wait till you know what the weather is going to be. ... What is RS policy if you have a “bad weather” weekend, and have already registered and paid?

[Loyd]

You gave smooth rider award to this guy? :-P

http://www.hart-photography.com/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=559216

[Loyd]

What's black and white and has red all over it?

http://www.hart-photography.com/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=556092

Fellow who is going to try instructor tip # 24 on body positioning:" Install mirror in garage and practice". :mrgreen:

[liltxfreebird]

There definitely needs to be caps on number of riders in the levels. If you do not register in time or walk up, you may just be out of luck. That would have to be helpful for RS staff planning. You could offer a tiered fee schedule to encourage early registration and payment.
For example:

$100 for registering early
$125 from early register ending up to the week before
$150 for the week of and walk ups (if space is available)

But I completely understand wanting to wait till you know what the weather is going to be. ... What is RS policy if you have a “bad weather” weekend, and have already registered and paid?

I have seen them credit to another track day,, not sure if it is an option for refund or credit though....:ponder:

[msnyder755]

There definitely needs to be caps on number of riders in the levels. If you do not register in time or walk up, you may just be out of luck. That would have to be helpful for RS staff planning. You could offer a tiered fee schedule to encourage early registration and payment.
For example:

$100 for registering early
$125 from early register ending up to the week before
$150 for the week of and walk ups (if space is available)

But I completely understand wanting to wait till you know what the weather is going to be. ... What is RS policy if you have a “bad weather” weekend, and have already registered and paid?

Although I would never show up hoping there was space I personally would be opposed to this. Why you ask...well as corporate pilot I cannot predict what my schedule is unless I take vacation time. Therefore, I would be dinged for for doing my job. I usually know a few days ahead if the weekend is free...sometimes more sometimes less.

I understand the reasoning but some simply cannot predict more than a week away. I am all for a maximum cap and once its reached its reached period.

One thing to consider however, is that this is a business for Dave and his crew. He has to cover all cost and make a profit otherwise they will simply go away therefore the less they allow on the track in each group the more they have to charge.

[blackhawk]

You gave smooth rider award to this guy? :-P

http://www.hart-photography.com/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=559216

Yep.... have to be smooth to pull that off at the speed he was going !!!:trust:

That had to be turn 5 or 6... cause that was where the photographer was hanging around most of the day... must have been looking the other way during that pass.

[ciaka]

Sorry folks. I have been really busy (family issues) since my return from MSR.

There are a few things I want to address:


First:

Thank you ALL for the input provided in this thread. No matter positive or negative, trust me, we will take it and make the school even better.


Second:

Passing rules - I instructed in level one and on multiple occasions, myself and Guy stated the rules:
NO PASSING IN TURNS IN AM - ONLY IN STRAIGHTS
PASSING IN TURNS WILL BE IN PM (ONLY AFTER WE INSTRUCTORS RELAX THEM), AND ONLY ON OUTSIDE WITH A BUFFER OF SPACE.

Anyone who said otherwise did not understand and did not ask to clarify, or did not attend class.


Third:

L1 and L2 were overcrowded - Yes, I agree.
Why were they overcrowded? WALK UPS.

I hear suggestions and pointers to deal with that. Trust us, we will take dramatic steps to counter this, some of which many of you walk up people will not like.

Walk ups this event have forced us into a very uncomfortable and inappropriate position. I witnessed several riders cause a fuss and stink because they drove up from a few hours away and we told them that the classes are full and they could not ride. Name calling, frustration and otherwise wrong behavior was witnessed.
Now, as dhdrider said, Dave is too nice of a guy, and looked at those people like a homeless dog (just needed to help them).
We have worked hard this season to ensure the class numbers are safe and enjoyable. We have had a great degree of success with this. So what is changing? Your decision making patterns. You (not just TWTEX people, but all riders) are starting to wait until Thursday before the Saturday event, to register, and often do not bother and just show up.

In light of the last event, this will become unacceptable. We will work to make registration online only. This means, you do not register online, and you do not bring invoice to prove registration, you do not ride. If some of you view this as a harsh step, please accept my kind apologies, but the business has to be protected.
Walk ups will not be tolerated anymore.
We will discuss multiple things regarding registration, but details will come out during the meeting, and we will make sure to communicate this to all.


Fourth - Rider Caps:

RideSmart has ALWAYS had rider caps and has enforced them. I cannot speak for what happened before I got involved with RS, but since, we have always had caps for each track day (each venue has different caps), and we have enforced them. The difference here is again, the number of walk ups. I have never seen so many of you walking up and demanding to ride, using 'i have driven 5 hours to get here', or 'I can't believe I spent 100 bucks on gas and you will just turn me away', etc.

We have had caps, we still have caps, and we will change the walk up rules to do a better job with enforcement. That you can count on.


Fifth - Safe riding:

I won't even mention those people who do not attend class. Again, in light of the event at MSR, we might just start policing class going to have proof each of you attend.
Throughout level1 day and level 2, I have not seen many infractions at all. I did see someone pass me inside in rattle snake while I was taping someone, but I made sure they know about this after the session. It never happened again.
Guy and other instructors do enforce the rules and we rely on each of you riders to bring to our attention if you have a bad experience with another rider. That is what the number plates are for, use them. We will be glad to take care of business for you. There were a few people we singled out, who admitted and did not repeat. You are our eyes for us and we need you to communicate with us.


Sixth - parade lap

I did see some people on their bikes without helmets. This will be most poignantly stated to Dave (maybe got too busy with everything, or just forgot to check, I do not know).
Age of rider (pending parent consent does not matter).
Parade lap was specificaly about 20 or so miles since riders were not adequately protected.
The rules for the parade lap were blasted over the speaker system several times, often with the riders right next to Dave. No passing. PERIOD.
Yet, we still saw passing and sent made them stop.
This will again be addressed and we will work to make this an event that is consistent. However, to make it fun, all participants will be EXPECTED to conform to rules.




I hope I have touched on the most important points.
In short, actions will be taken and changes will be made. Some you will like, and others you may not be thrilled about. Unfortunately, a small number of people may be the catalyst for the changes. We will do everything we can to make the changes transparent, but we have to protect the school from just such reviews.

Take care. Talk to you soon.

[dhdrider]

...What is RS policy if you have a “bad weather” weekend, and have already registered and paid?
It is almost entirely up to the track owners, not RideSmart (and all other orgs for that matter) whether or not the track is considered "safe" to ride, rain or shine. So, generally speaking, we ride rain or shine. All track organizations share this rule. However, if possible, we will work with track ownership to see what can be done. Perhaps reschedule the day and give everyone a credit as an example. But, like I said, ultimately it is up to them whether or not we have to pay up...

[TejasFJR]

I wonder if there might be room for a novice only half-day event the day before the track day for riders that are either new to riding or new to performance riding? Also if the classroom allows for this, perhaps a "Passing Status:" could be maintained on a dry erase board or something?

In spite of these minor issues, I'm very pleased with the events sponsored by RideSmart. There is no question that Dave, the instructors and everyone else involved really cares about putting on a good day for us. My wife and kids have been more than a little curious to find out what all the fuss is about and came along this last Sunday. They really enjoyed it and felt welcomed by everyone. So thanks.

[Loyd]

It is almost entirely up to the track owners, not RideSmart (and all other orgs for that matter) whether or not the track is considered "safe" to ride, rain or shine. So, generally speaking, we ride rain or shine. All track organizations share this rule. However, if possible, we will work with track ownership to see what can be done. Perhaps reschedule the day and give everyone a credit as an example. But, like I said, ultimately it is up to them whether or not we have to pay up...

You know, if it's not a torrential downpour, riding in the rain isn't a bad experience. Cresson is slick wet, the rest of the tracks I have ridden on wet aren't so bad. It's not like you can tell mothernature to stop it on a ride...

[Loyd]

Thank you a million Jason! I look forward to hearing of what comes from the meeting later in the week.:mrgreen:

Do take it with a grain of salt that realistically, while you can expect some improvements, EVERY organizer has crap days. ;-)

[poser]

You know, if it's not a torrential downpour, riding in the rain isn't a bad experience. Cresson is slick wet, the rest of the tracks I have ridden on wet aren't so bad. It's not like you can tell mothernature to stop it on a ride...

and I say doing a track day in the rain will drastically improve your street riding skills in the rain

[ciaka]

Riding in the rain on a track will help you be very smooth on the controls. That is a fact.

As dhd said, at this time the owners of the track call the shots on this. One of their reasons is that if they rent the track to cars, they will ride rain or shine, and if motos rent it, the track stands to lose the $$$ on rain days.
However, we try our hardest to work out a good solution for everyone.
This does not guarantee a positive outcome for all events though (again, refunds/reschedules are at the track owners' discretion).


Thank you all for coming to the track, and hope you have enjoyed yourselves.
We will have more updates soon.

[dhdrider]

Also if the classroom allows for this, perhaps a "Passing Status:" could be maintained on a dry erase board or something?

Funny you mention that. Last week, we decided that we will probaly create a sandwich board w/ a dry erase board on it (or pre-made signs) that show the passing status. This would be located at pit-out so that even the classroom skippers would be well aware of the passing status when they enter the track. What do you think? Good idea?

[TejasFJR]

I like it!

[Loyd]

Funny you mention that. Last week, we decided that we will probaly create a sandwich board w/ a dry erase board on it (or pre-made signs) that show the passing status. This would be located at pit-out so that even the classroom skippers would be well aware of the passing status when they enter the track. What do you think? Good idea?

I like the idea. I also don't like the idea of catering to folks who don't attend the class if your goal is having them attend.

On the note of attendance. Classtime could be better structured to allow more out of classroom time. I like sitting in the a/c personally.:mrgreen:

[buck000]

I like any reminder of the passing rules on pit-out.

The thing that keeps throwing me with the various track day organization is when the instructors fly by on inside/outside/whatever, in all levels, at all times. This bugged me for a while, from a "setting an example" perspective, but I finally learned to just keep my line and trust those folks.

One thing that helps me not a bit is to have an instructor follow me around for a couple of laps, then tell me I'm pretty much doing everything just fine. Really? Not even one tip? I've experienced this both with the RS crew and The Other Guys. ;)

This is not specific to the recent track day at Cresson, I'm just jumping in to vent. Thanks for everyone's efforts to provide some serious track fun.

[poser]

I like any reminder of the passing rules on pit-out.

The thing that keeps throwing me with the various track day organization is when the instructors fly by on inside/outside/whatever, in all levels, at all times. This bugged me for a while, from a "setting an example" perspective, but I finally learned to just keep my line and trust those folks.



I would assume this is largely due to them needing to get around to more students, if they road traffic pace they'd never catch up.
and you're right just trust those guys, they don't get asked to be instructors by not knowing what they're doing.

[buck000]

I would assume this is largely due to them needing to get around to more students, if they road traffic pace they'd never catch up.
and you're right just trust those guys, they don't get asked to be instructors by not knowing what they're doing.

I agree, but when I was in Level 1, getting my feet wet with The Addiction, it was quite unnerving to have someone blow past me as I tipped into the turn. :eek2:

I'll be honest, though, in my disagreement that some instructors knew what they were doing, instructor-wise. Some seemed like they were just there for the free track time, in exchange for the boring "follow a slowbie around and tell 'em they look fine" duty.

But make no mistake, in my opinion, 90% of the folks working these events have their hearts and heads in the right place. When I worked a corner once, their was quite a bit of radio traffic expressing concerns about one rider or another, and what to do with 'em. :thumb:

[dhdrider]

I like the idea. I also don't like the idea of catering to folks who don't attend the class if your goal is having them attend.

On the note of attendance. Classtime could be better structured to allow more out of classroom time. I like sitting in the a/c personally.:mrgreen:
I agree and understand. We talked about having the "passing status" board in the classes as well. We just thought it best to have it at pit-out so that everyone sees it. When we "hunt down" bad passing offenders, probably upwards of 75% of the time it involves a rider that was not in class.

This way, the "law-abiding" citizens of the classrooms don't get their day ruined by a guy who's too cool for school...

[ciaka]

This season we have been concentrating on this. Can't speak for all levels yet, but at least in lev 1 there has been a dramatic improvement this season. We are working to get this streamlined and uniform throughout all levels, but sometimes class talk extends and shortens the out of class time. Maybe if we get some type of timer that chimes after 20 minutes or so to let all know we are now in the no classroom time zone. Just another idea....we will see what can be done.

Thank you.



...
On the note of attendance. Classtime could be better structured to allow more out of classroom time. I like sitting in the a/c personally.:mrgreen:

[Luap]

One theme I noticed whenever the topic of a bad pass came up in class was that no one ever got the bike number. Even the instructors seemed to have trouble because at least two times in class (lvl 1) an instructor said something about a dirty pass but that they hadn't caught the number. Maybe it should be required to have your bike number on the rear of the bike or the back of your helmet so it's possible for riders on the track to help police the situation better. On the track you're never in the position to see the number on the front of other bikes and only rarely will you be looking sideways to see the numbers on the sides of bikes that pass you.

[dhdrider]

One theme I noticed whenever the topic of a bad pass came up in class was that no one ever got the bike number. Even the instructors seemed to have trouble because at least two times in class (lvl 1) an instructor said something about a dirty pass but that they hadn't caught the number. Maybe it should be required to have your bike number on the rear of the bike or the back of your helmet so it's possible for riders on the track to help police the situation better. On the track you're never in the position to see the number on the front of other bikes and only rarely will you be looking sideways to see the numbers on the sides of bikes that pass you.
Yep, hard to see it when they've just passed you. The numbers are mostly thre for the corner-workers. We rely on bike/leathers description as well. Maybe one day we'll have the money to put a camera on everyone's bike!:lol2:

One can dream, right...

[DFW_Warrior]

Ciaka, Jason, thank you guys so much for everything you do. This is exactly what I was hoping to see! You guys are a primo example of great customer service.

I want to believe you guys, I want to give you all the benefit of the doubt. So as soon as I can make sure I have the funds for the track day and the tires that I'll need for it, I plan on signing up for the one coming up in November. I hope to see you guys there. Just look for a giant ugly Strom on the track and that will be me! I'm trying to talk Squeaky into coming up as well, so there might be two giant ugly Stroms on the track.

[poser]

Ciaka, Jason, thank you guys so much for everything you do. This is exactly what I was hoping to see! You guys are a primo example of great customer service.

I want to believe you guys, I want to give you all the benefit of the doubt. So as soon as I can make sure I have the funds for the track day and the tires that I'll need for it, I plan on signing up for the one coming up in November. I hope to see you guys there. Just look for a giant ugly Strom on the track and that will be me! I'm trying to talk Squeaky into coming up as well, so there might be two giant ugly Stroms on the track.

I'm not sure there's room for two giant ugly stroms :lol2:
I'll be at the november event too, hope to see you there!

[Loyd]

I'm not sure there's room for two giant ugly stroms :lol2:
I'll be at the november event too, hope to see you there!

Pfft, I've seen a wing AND whatever harley calls their "wing" in lvl one at the same time. Pop and I were on xx's at the time too... Good thing the tracks are WIDE! :lol2:

[dhdrider]

Pfft, I've seen a wing AND whatever harley calls their "wing" in lvl one at the same time. Pop and I were on xx's at the time too... Good thing the tracks are WIDE! :lol2:
Classic.:rofl:

[ciaka]

...we are just glad you guys are willing to provide good feedback so we can continue to improve. There is nothing worse to a business than being in a false sense of security, thinking everything is perfect, when it is not.

Thanks again to all of you.






Ciaka, Jason, thank you guys so much for everything you do. This is exactly what I was hoping to see! You guys are a primo example of great customer service.

I want to believe you guys, I want to give you all the benefit of the doubt. So as soon as I can make sure I have the funds for the track day and the tires that I'll need for it, I plan on signing up for the one coming up in November. I hope to see you guys there. Just look for a giant ugly Strom on the track and that will be me! I'm trying to talk Squeaky into coming up as well, so there might be two giant ugly Stroms on the track.

[dhdrider]

...What I'm hoping for is that someone from the RideSmart camp will eventually come on here and say, "We have done "a,b,and c" in response to the concerns we heard here."
OK, so here is where we are with the over-crowding issue. Some things are already in place for future events and some will take some development w/ our web IT guy (who creates/maintains registration page).

We have traced the majority of our "over-crowding" to a disconnect between the automated registration page on the web and that of people riding via some form of credit or walk-ups.

1) We have established a 3-day from event "deadline" for riders riding on earned credit (from corner-work, rain-outs, gifts, anyone who's not paying via the registration page). If you call less than 3 days prior to event, we cannot guarantee a spot.

2) We will establish a cut-off time for web-registrations (still TBD, but right now we are leaning towards 24hrs prior to event). This eliminates the issue of people registering via the web after we have printed our list of riders to take w/ us to the events. (Yes, we have people who register and pay online w/in hours of the event and expect to have their name on the list)

3) We will begin a large communication effort (via email, message boards, etc) to get the word out on the consequences of walking-up w/ out notifying RideSmart. (such as - you run the risk of NOT being able to ride)

4) We will work with our IT web guy to develop some sort of web-based solution to get non-paying riders (credit, gifts, discounts, etc) registered on the roster. Right now this a manual process that involves phone calls, emails, & combining lists on spreadsheets. A fully automated rider list is the ultimate solution. This is an item that will take more time to implement.

Again, we thank all you riders for your input in helping RideSmart to become a better business.

If you have any more suggestions, please feel free to post them up or send a private message to myself or Ciaka.

[poser]

very cool
all I really have to say is, can't wait till 11/1, and 11/9!

[Calgary-Yogi]

4) We will work with our IT web guy to develop some sort of web-based solution to get non-paying riders (credit, gifts, discounts, etc) registered on the roster. Right now this a manual process that involves phone calls, emails, & combining lists on spreadsheets. A fully automated rider list is the ultimate solution. This is an item that will take more time to implement.


Just a suggestion, you may want to show the spots remaining for each level. If the number is getting low it should get folks on the fence to register a bit earlier.

[TejasFJR]

Since I'm in IT I can't help but want to offer a suggestion. Could you possibly issue a unique voucher number that the non-paying registrants could use as a type of coupon code on the online form and then force everyone to go through the same registration system?

[TejasFJR]

BTW, want to see what happens when an 11 yr old gets a video camera at a track day?

(note the lack of focus... ants, clouds, etc :D)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmEUFBZucec

[poser]

Since I'm in IT I can't help but want to offer a suggestion. Could you possibly issue a unique voucher number that the non-paying registrants could use as a type of coupon code on the online form and then force everyone to go through the same registration system?

that wold be a good idea
can you creat a coupon code that is only good once?

I don't know if this would be a problem, but I could see people selling their coupon code

[dhdrider]

Since I'm in IT I can't help but want to offer a suggestion. Could you possibly issue a unique voucher number that the non-paying registrants could use as a type of coupon code on the online form and then force everyone to go through the same registration system?
We are looking into it. It may be a tiered solution. Perhaps a more elmentary solution until we get a redemption code system in place.

[dhdrider]

Just a suggestion, you may want to show the spots remaining for each level. If the number is getting low it should get folks on the fence to register a bit earlier.

Yes, a great suggestion as well.:clap:

[DFW_Warrior]

If you have any more suggestions, please feel free to post them up or send a private message to myself or Ciaka.

My only other suggestion would be the safety gear required on the parade laps. You all seem very diligent about the equipment required for the participants of the track day itself, why not be as diligent with the parade lap participants. No, not to the extent of full jackets, riding pants, zip-togethers, and what not, but some of these folks weren't even wearing pants, helmets or gloves. I just know that when I'm doing a group ride on the streets, these people are turned away because I don't want the liability of them going down to be while I'm with them.

Other than that, I give you guys many, many thumbs up. So far I've seen a company that is truly customer focused and that is a welcome site in this day and age! :clap:

[poser]

My only other suggestion would be the safety gear required on the parade laps. You all seem very diligent about the equipment required for the participants of the track day itself, why not be as diligent with the parade lap participants. No, not to the extent of full jackets, riding pants, zip-togethers, and what not, but some of these folks weren't even wearing pants, helmets or gloves. I just know that when I'm doing a group ride on the streets, these people are turned away because I don't want the liability of them going down to be while I'm with them.

Other than that, I give you guys many, many thumbs up. So far I've seen a company that is truly customer focused and that is a welcome site in this day and age! :clap:

Hot off the press...

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33064

[Squeaky]

Just look for a giant ugly Strom on the track and that will be me! I'm trying to talk Squeaky into coming up as well, so there might be two giant ugly Stroms on the track.

Two ugly SILVER Stroms at that! :rofl:

Other than the fact that I'm the cute one, people will barely be able to tell us apart.

:trust:

[dhdrider]

Hot off the press...

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33064
Nice redirect. :mrgreen:

The parade laps rules will be stickied and so will the registration rules/changes once we get them more concrete...

[blackhawk]

BTW, want to see what happens when an 11 yr old gets a video camera at a track day?

(note the lack of focus... ants, clouds, etc :D)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmEUFBZucec

It is as good as the one I shot with my camera in video mode!
post #35 this thread