Braking - Cruiser vs. Sportbike

[Challen]

The other braking topic got me to thinking (scary)......
If we took two bikes; one pretty common cruiser and one pretty common sportbike, both with the EXACT same brakes and the EXACT same rider...............which one would stop quickest?

I already have an answer, but I'd like to see what everyone else thinks.

[wabbit]

I think given the exact same rider on bikes weighing exactly the same with the exact same brakes with the exact same tires and assuming the tires don't skid, the cruiser would come out on top. This is because of the longer wheel base which allows more leverage on the front wheel. The shorter wheelbase of the sportbike would ultimately reach a point where the bike would flip over the handlebars (assuming the tire doesn't slide)

Problem is, thats a lot of assumptions. Sportbike are typically lighter and usually have better (more efficient) brakes than there heavier cruiser counterparts. Usually sportbike also have stickier tires because they are meant for extreme lean angles, etc. Whereas a cruiser would have harder tires meant for longer highway type miles.

I am not sure how the tire size plays into it as well. Some Harley's and harley clones have pretty skinny front wheels. So I would think less contact patch could be a problem, but friction is not dependant on surface area so I'm not sure how that would play into it.

In the end it comes down to the rider knowing the bike. I'm sure there are plenty of cruiser riders than can stop their bikes faster than a squid.

[Sleepy Weasel]

If we took two bikes; one pretty common cruiser and one pretty common sportbike, both with the EXACT same brakes and the EXACT same rider...

Anybody know of a common cruiser and a common sportbike that share the same brakes?

[wabbit]

I believe the Yamaha Roadstar Warrior and the Yamaha FZ6 have very similar (if not the same) brakes. Of course the Roadstar warrior isn't a typical cruiser because it borrows some sport style technology.

The FZ6 isnt necessarily a sportbike. More of a sport standard.

They are still not an apples to apples comparison because the Warrior weighs 606lbs and the FZ6 weighs 423lbs.

Whose that guy who makes the ducati choppers? maybe you oculd compare that to a ducati sportbike. You would probably still have large weight discrepancies.


I guess this was the long way to say no to your previous question.

[Ajax]

I think typically the average sportbike will stop quicker than the average cruiser.

[STrider]

I believe the Yamaha Roadstar Warrior and the Yamaha FZ6 have very similar (if not the same) brakes. Of course the Roadstar warrior isn't a typical cruiser because it borrows some sport style technology.

The FZ6 isnt necessarily a sportbike. More of a sport standard.

They are still not an apples to apples comparison because the Warrior weighs 606lbs and the FZ6 weighs 423lbs.

Whose that guy who makes the ducati choppers? maybe you oculd compare that to a ducati sportbike. You would probably still have large weight discrepancies.


I guess this was the long way to say no to your previous question.

The Warrior brakes are sourced from the R1.

[wabbit]

According to the yamaha website they are different. The calipers may be the same though.

R1 :Dual 320mm discs; radial-mount forged 4-piston calipers

Warrior: Dual 298mm Discs

[STrider]

oops, yeah, I meant calipers, discs are different.

[sbaker33]

The point is that there are few, if any, cruisers that would make an apples to apples comparison to a sport bike. Most cruisers are typically heavier, have smaller/less capable brakes and smaller front tire contact patches (where most braking force is applied).

If the question is will equivalent bikes but with differing wheelbases and geometry stop in different distances, the answer is yes. Longer, wheelbase and more conservative geometry will help braking up to a point.

But sportbikes will stop faster than cruisers.

I like the idea and, in some cases, the looks of cruisers but have yet to find one that I can afford that offers what I would like to see in terms of braking and handling capabilities. The advantages a bike has over a car in superior agility, braking and acceleration are tools for accident avoidance :lol: as well as being lots of fun 8-)

[Chirpy]

I like the idea and, in some cases, the looks of cruisers but have yet to find one that I can afford that offers what I would like to see in terms of braking and handling capabilities.

Go find your friendly Harley dealer and ride a 1200R Sportster. Normal footpegs, dual discs and a normal sized front tire. Quicker steeering than my VTR, as the weight is carried far lower in the frame.

I know, but set aside the jokes and the stereotypes, and what the heck, the test ride is free.

[Challen]

If we took two bikes; one pretty common cruiser and one pretty common sportbike, both with the EXACT same brakes and the EXACT same rider...

Anybody know of a common cruiser and a common sportbike that share the same brakes?

Nope, that's why it would be considered a "hypothetical situation". The parameters of the question were set with a purpose of getting people to think.

:chug:

[kurt]

I think the biggest difference in stopping distance would be the tires. Cruisers have high mileage compound tires and are downright greasy feeling compared to a sportbike tire. My Harley is downright scary in the rain and will lock up with MUCH less brake input than any bike that has any pretensions of sporting use. Add the wallowy suspension and front end dive, and you have to have your "A" game on to stop them in any kind of rapid fashion. Brakes are not the weak link here.

[bushwhacker]

Here you go.

This is a report of the results of a comprehensive series of motorcycle braking tests (nearly 300) involving a Honda CBR929RR Fireblade weighing 379 pounds and a Honda GL1500C Valkyrie weighing 681 pounds. They both stopped with virtual identical times and distances at an average of .98 g's.


http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/images/motorcycleBrakingTests.pdf

Link from page

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=894

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[Klaus]

The limitation on the ability to slow down is usually the point at which the back wheel starts to lift. The center of mass of the typical cruiser is lower and further back then the center of mass of typical sport bike therefore requiring more force to lift the back wheel. One would expect the cruiser to stop hader then the sport bike. Of course excluding the time for the cruiser rider to get his foot of the highway bar to the brake pedal.

[Tx Rider]

I like the idea and, in some cases, the looks of cruisers but have yet to find one that I can afford that offers what I would like to see in terms of braking and handling capabilities.

Go find your friendly Harley dealer and ride a 1200R Sportster. Normal footpegs, dual discs and a normal sized front tire. Quicker steeering than my VTR, as the weight is carried far lower in the frame.

I know, but set aside the jokes and the stereotypes, and what the heck, the test ride is free.

Dyna Glide sport isn't bad either, 612 lbs, Twin disks up front and no skinny little tire up there either. It'll lock the front tire if you reef it in, takes more than my FZ-1 to lock it, but it'll do it even with the softer sport tires I run on it.

My FZ-1 at about 500lbs will stop faster though I think, but not much. but it does it with a toe and a finger, the harley uses your whole hand and a big foot.

Both will out stop my KTM 620 despite it's weighing 200 lbs less than the FZ-1 at a measly 300lbs wet, it has single front disk and the 21" knobs don't like to stop so well, not to mention over a foot of fork dive if you really reef the front.

Generally though most bikes will stop at a fairly equal distance, from an R-1 to a Gold Wing. Given brakes that have ability to lock the front tire, and decent tires, it should be fairly equal.

The longer heavier bike puts more weight on the front tire and gets that much more traction, and has no rear wheel lift.

[bushwhacker]

I like the idea and, in some cases, the looks of cruisers but have yet to find one that I can afford that offers what I would like to see in terms of braking and handling capabilities. The advantages a bike has over a car in superior agility, braking and acceleration are tools for accident avoidance :lol: as well as being lots of fun 8-)

Honda Valkyrie. I rode a Valkyrie for 3 years before getting the Tiger. It will generally out-run, out handle, and out stop the typical cruiser.

It is faster and smoother than any V-Twin cruiser.

It has much better accelleration and handling characteristics in the twisties than the typical V-Twin Cruiser.

As far as cruiser type bikes are concerned it is at the top of the list in all categories which is why Cruiser Magazine picked it as the "Cruiser of the Decade" for the 90's.

It does the quarter in the mid 12's and has a top speed of approx. 130 mph.

However, it is still a cruiser. It is not going to be as quick or handle as well as a sport bike, a sport tourer, an adventure Toruer, or even most standards.

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[sbaker33]

Honda Valkyrie. I rode a Valkyrie for 3 years before getting the Tiger. It will generally out-run, out handle, and out stop the typical cruiser.

It is faster and smoother than any V-Twin cruiser.

It has much better accelleration and handling characteristics in the twisties than the typical V-Twin Cruiser.

As far as cruiser type bikes are concerned it is at the top of the list in all categories which is why Cruiser Magazine picked it as the "Cruiser of the Decade" for the 90's.

It does the quarter in the mid 12's and has a top speed of approx. 130 mph.

I like the Valkyries. I with thet still made them. :-(

[Sleepy Weasel]

If we took two bikes; one pretty common cruiser and one pretty common sportbike, both with the EXACT same brakes and the EXACT same rider...

Anybody know of a common cruiser and a common sportbike that share the same brakes?

Nope, that's why it would be considered a "hypothetical situation". The parameters of the question were set with a purpose of getting people to think.

:chug:

My point, on the other hand, is if you're going to hypothetically upgrade the brakes, are you going to change anything else? Weight, tire size, suspension, etc?

[P-Ratt]

What about the front-brake-only-stop which was shorter than the overall average stopping distance? Wouldn't you wonder if the numbers generated were as they should be? If someone can generate a stop with the front only that is superior to the overall average, I wonder about the other operators. Sure, you can generate 100% of your braking force at the rear wheel, but that won't be better than using front and rear. Perhaps the testing/results were limited by the inhibitions of the operator(s).

[StoneTriple]

The longer heavier bike puts more weight on the front tire and gets that much more traction

The opposite is true.
Sportbikes have shorter wheel bases so that the weight is more evenly distributed - more weight up front means better traction\less wash-out in a high speed turn. It's the very thing that makes them have less rear wheel traction in a quick stop. Bikes with longer wheel bases carry much more weight toward the rear of the bike and that makes them less responsive in high speed or tight turns because there's less traction up front.

[Jesse H]

Without reading other's responses...

Average riders, the cruiser will stop quicker thanks to the longer wheelbase allowing less finesse and more use of the rear brake.

Skilled riders would stop more quickly on the sportbike because they're lighter and have stickier rubber.

What do I win?