So, you want a Dualsport?

[gotdurt]

Since Scott's dualsport fever seems to be spreading like wildfire, and I've been asked about DS bikes a number of times, I thought I'd post a thread regarding different DS bikes available, and where they fit. There's lots to consider, but this is an overview to provide a little direction to those considering getting dirty. This PM was asking in regard to 650's, but I touched on all popular 'DS' bikes.


Hey there,.......After reading all the stories and looking at the pic's of the D/S bikes and roads of this past weekend, I now, more than ever want to get serious about getting a D/S bike....I've been toying with the idea for
awhile.......Need advice on what's out there in the medium size......Don't think I want a 1000+cc dirt bike, much less the $ cost and weight. Last dirt bike I had were the open classers CR 500 & KX 500.........I need to know if the 650cc range bikes are road worthy and able to do 1500 miles pavement in a 3 day weekend and do the dirt in style not just the fire roads like the bigger GS's are limited to.

Bikes:...... Honda XR 650,.......Kaw KLR 650,.....Suzuki, KTM, MZ........Any suggestions would greatly help.........



They (the 650's) are all capable of racking up the miles, it really depends on the type of riding you want to do and your tolerance for pain ;-) . Unlike the big bikes, none of them are big on power, so keeping your pack weight down is something to consider. What you loose in power and comfort you gain in nimbleness and trail capability. It can be exhausting riding a 650 1500mi in 3 days on the highway, but even more exhausting riding a fully loaded GS on technical surfaces. So, you have to be realistic about what you are going use the bike for....

If you think it'll be more highway and rough paved backroads with some graded dirt roads thrown in, then lean road oriented, if you are going to be chasing deer trails or riding where there are no trails, and ride roads only to connect those trails then get a non-legal dirt bike and make it legal...

Here is the the order of dirt capability of the most popular bikes available, starting with the more street oriented and ending with trail (including the big bikes):

Suzuki DL1000/650 - hot rod (compared to most DS's) street bike with a couple extra inches of suspension travel. I wouldn't take it beyond graded dirt roads.

BMW R1100/1150/1200GS - BIG, WIDE, HEAVY, COMFY! Think of it as the 4X4 Suburban of DS bikes. Touring accessories galore. Best kept to graded dirt, but jeep trail capable if you're brave.

Triumph Tiger - I've read really good things about these. Narrower than the GS and supposedly a bit more dirt capable. Very powerful. This would be my choice of big DS's.

BMW F650GS - heavy, soft and low, they have more touring accessories than most of the other bikes.

KTM 950 Adventure - Well, actually this would be my choice of the bigguns, but cost prohibitive :-( .

BMW F650GS Dakar - same as GS, just better suspension and ground clearance.

Kawasaki KLR650 - Heavy and soft but surprisingly dirt capable, lots of aftermarket accessories for touring, comes stock with a 6 gal tank, great value. Not pretty though.

Suzuki DR650 - Looks more dirt oriented than it is. Soft suspension, doesn't have as much after market support as the KLR for touring, or the XR for dirt/performance. Good all around compromise though; it can tour, it can singletrack. Air cooled with an oil cooler. This is probably my next bike.

Honda XR650L - Not much available for road touring, but probably has the largest aftermarket following for offroad performance than any other DS bike. The RFVC XR/XL family has been around for a long time and are known for bullet proof reliability. The XRL has nearly 12 full" inches of suspension travel and 14" ground clearance with knobbies. This is also the tallest DS with over 37" seat height (higher with large knobbies). Air cooled.

KTM LC4 (640) - Powerfull and mostly dirt oriented, more modern design and motocross-like geometry. I think KTM discontinued it in the US.

KTM 625SXC - Bad to the bone street legal dirt bike.

DRZ400 - Mostly dirt oriented. About the same hp as many of the 650's but less torque, so might be tiring on long, highspeed rides, especially loaded.

Since I put a lot of dirt/offroad miles on a XR650L, I'll expand on that experience; great bike! Slightly under powered IMHO, but the aftermarket can take care of that if you need it, and they respond well to the usual intake and exhaust mods. It's basically a stroked XR600 with an electric start (after you put it on a diet and strip it of all it's 'junk'), and set up properly, performs surprisingly well in just about any terrain. I've ridden along with 2-stroke MX bikes with no problems keeping up (if they could keep up ;-) ) and never had to avoid any obstacle/ terrain that they rode (doesn't mean I didn't have to work at it). Torque is plentiful; the dirt bike guys had to really work to keep up on steep climbs and open high speed sections. It's weight and soft (compared to MX) long travel suspension allowed it to soak up the terrain at speed. I also used it for longer rides, such as a 6 day, 1100+ mile trip to Baja (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ecfry129/baja.html). This was a mostly rough jeep trail trip loaded with camping gear. I don't recall any comfort issues, although I spent a great deal of time standing... The longest day ride I've done was almost 600 miles of about 50/50 pavement and dirt roads, with some more difficult trails thrown in as shortcuts. I did sleep well that night ;-). The 'L' has plenty of oomf to cruise 80 all day, even with the shorter gearing I used. At these highway speeds, however, the tall, light (compared to street bikes) bike is like a kite in the wind, and can be exhausting if you aren't up to it. The seat is wide enough, and has room for modification. You'd have to be creative for more serious highway set-up. The Arizona desert is extremely unforgiving on ORV's, but the XR took what I gave out, desite my brutal abuse. Among the casualties as a result of my relentless abuse, it suffered a couple of frame breaks, a broken foot peg, a destroyed front wheel, and we won't even talk about the plasics... but mechanically it kept on ticking. To give an idea of their reputaion and demand in the west, I still was able to sell it for $2100, despite it's mileage and worn, ragged appearance, before I moved back to Texas.

Hope this helps. Now, go get a bike and prepare for the race to sign up for this (http://twtex.com/viewtopic.php?t=3303&highlight=).

[WoodButcher]

Nice write up. One thing I noticed about the BMW 650GS (and Dakar) is that their load capacity is very near the big GS. I was kind of suprised by that.

I liked reading the Big Bend write up and seeing a variety of DS bikes out there, including a DRZ like mine. Those videos show that you can do those dirt roads on the full range you mention.

The one thing about that trip is that I would have probably trailered the DRZ down there since it is a bit uncomfortable on long road sections. It will do the miles fine though, my rear can't handle it :-)

[Tourmeister]

The DRZ was trailered ;-)

The Dakar had trouble running much over 70-75mph, even worse for the DRZ. A KLR would not be much better. If I had time to burn, I'd ride a KLR out there at a LIESURELY pace. At the pace we were running, it would have been pretty miserable. The KTM seemed to handle the higher speeds best of the thumpers.

Adios,

[Adan]

The Dakar had trouble running much over 70-75mph

:scratch

Maybe the Dakar has different sprokets/gearing, my (now Pete's) baby GS didn't seem to mind prolonged highway speeds with the stock setup & DS tires. It actually smoothed out pretty good at those speeds, and still had some margin left for passing.

[Tx Rider]

My GPS was showing 96 MPH top speed on the trip computer if I can trust that. I had a very tall 16:40 sprocket set on my bike for the Big Bend trip, when I was riding it in serious dirt I used a 16:48 or a 16:52 sprocket set.

The lighter dirt bikes don't like high speeds very much though even if they can do it. Mine has the the power but winds at those speeds really toss you around.

I also have 4 counter sprockets, and can change gearing in about 10 minutes just dropping a tooth or two in the front can move from tall road gears to a shorter dirt gearing without changing chain length. A 650 needs that flexibility and I'd recommend having the extra sprocket/s.

KTM has stopped importing the LC4 line (620/625/640/640 adventure) but only in the U.S. Europe still gets them and possibly Canada.

From what I hear they are importing like 50 640 adventures period this year and only some supermoto 625smc's. There are a few low mileage '04's around though, two over on ktmtalk for under 5k.

I went with KTM LC4 based bikes as even though they are large they can do the MX and woods stuff that a gs650 or a KLR would have harder time at and have top notch parts and tough as nails frames etc. with great torque and power. The honda 650r would be about as good though.

If I wasn't planning on hard techical trails and wooded single track etc. on occasion I'd probably just have a KLR.

Riding off road your weight isn't on the seat a lot so your **** fares ok, riding long road trips you need a custom seat. Several folks make new seat foams and covers, and guys like James at renazco racing specialize in dual sport seats. The airhawk pad I used this last weekend is the only reason I can walk this week after 1750 miles on that bike with a stock seat. :)

[Tx Rider]

BTW There's a nice Honda 650 for sale rightover in the for sale topic!

You know you want one!!

http://fastmonstr.smugmug.com/photos/19903860-M.jpg

[bushwhacker]

I have the Tiger and this weekend took it off road a little in the Bandera area. A six mile stretch of dirt road with a few minor hills and curves were almost like pavement to it. With the exception of a single 90 degree uphill left turn right after a low water crossing it was extremely easy going at 40-50 mph.

Another stretch about 9 miles long between 335 and 336 was another story. A number of dry stream beds with golf ball to base ball size rocks. Some of these were 6-8 feet deep and only 15-20 feet apart which meant you were going down and back up 30 degree or steeper grades.

Constant 90 degree turns and switch backs with trees overhanging into the road.

Bed rock coming straight out of the road in front of you.

I have very little off road experience, but the Tiger did me proud, getting me thru there with only a couple of front wheel slides and one serious rear wheel bounce which I think was due to insufficient rebound damping and not a single dropped bike.

Ed Gardner, who also occasionally posts here, was ahead of me leading the way, also on a Tiger.

I think for any semi serious off roading I may pick up a KLR 250 but for dirt and gravel roads and light off road the Tiger is great.

-

[Hoop]

http://fastmonstr.smugmug.com/photos/19903860-M.jpg

The bike in front is XR650Rocketman, I'm on the DRZ in back. Just after this picture was taken, Rocketman slid the back tire sideways to try to roost the cameraman. It was cool. Then we stopped to play with a rattlesnake, no kidding. My DRZ was geared down 1 tooth in the front for woods riding, I really needed stock gearing or higher to run the pace in these parts!

[Bandit33]

Yes, I definitely trailered the DRZ down there for the ride. Once there, I rode all over the place. The seat would not have been real comfortable for a long 9 hour drive.

Don

[buck000]

In my short time with the dr650, I like it at any speed under about 50 mph, but above that, the slick Corbin seat and lack of a fairing conspire to make for a pretty painful ride on the highways-to-get-to-the-fun-stuff.

What do folks do for this? I realize a windshield would help, but I'm wondering about protecting the legs from windblast; would tank panniers help at all?

[gotdurt]

What do folks do for this? I realize a windshield would help, but I'm wondering about protecting the legs from windblast; would tank panniers help at all?
What many do for a windshield is get a aftermarket windscreen for a rectangular headlight that clamps onto the handlebar.

[Tx Rider]

If you don't like the wind a dirt bike style dual sport isn't going to be for you, and a gs650, 1150 or a maybe KLR with that little fairing would be better. Maybe the faired ktm adventure but I haven't ridden one to know how well that little fairing works.

Personally I like the wind on all my bikes, I just need enough wind blocked from my chest that it isn't pushing me off the seat at 80mph. I try to wear gear that doesn't flap so the wind doesn't beat me up.

Here's a pic of my KTM solution. Simple piece of plexiglass heated with a heat gun and bent to match the number plate, a couple of thumbscrews and tabbed bolts from the hardware store and it's done. 1hr and a few dollars. Could be made 6" taller just as easily but I like my head in clear air.

Can be removed in 30 seconds.

http://killer.playnet.com/pics/ktmstuff/KIF_0859.JPG

Also as for legs, the radiator shrouds do block some wind from the upper legs on the water cooled bikes.

[WoodButcher]

Here's a pic of my KTM solution. Simple piece of plexiglass heated with a heat gun and bent to match the number plate, a couple of thumbscrews and tabbed bolts from the hardware store and it's done. 1hr and a few dollars. Could be made 6" taller just as easily but I like my head in clear air.

Can be removed in 30 seconds.

http://killer.playnet.com/pics/ktmstuff/KIF_0859.JPG



What thickness of plexiglass? I was considering something like that for the DRZ.

[Tourmeister]

:tab Bushwhacker, was that road between 335 and 336 open all the way through? I have heard it is usually locked on either end about a third of the way out from the FM's. Is it not private property?

Adios,

[Tx Rider]

Here's a pic of my KTM solution. Simple piece of plexiglass heated with a heat gun and bent to match the number plate, a couple of thumbscrews and tabbed bolts from the hardware store and it's done. 1hr and a few dollars. Could be made 6" taller just as easily but I like my head in clear air.

Can be removed in 30 seconds.

http://killer.playnet.com/pics/ktmstuff/KIF_0859.JPG



What thickness of plexiglass? I was considering something like that for the DRZ.

That stuff is pretty thin, I think 1/16", I was looking for 1/8" but couldn't find any that afternoon. Just a little sheet of acrylic I grabbed from the hardware store.

[bushwhacker]

:tab Bushwhacker, was that road between 335 and 336 open all the way through? I have heard it is usually locked on either end about a third of the way out from the FM's. Is it not private property?

Adios,

The road we took was 2631 on one end, 3235 on the other and I have no idea what in the middle or whether or not it was private property but we made it all the way thru and no one told us we should not be there.

It had, I think, 3 bump gates and one gate that had a bike chain on it but none were locked. There was a sign on the one gate asking to keep the gate closed due to livestock.

If you have a garmin mapsource program I can send you my track file, The road varied from the GPS just before the gate that had to be opened manually and we thought we may have taken a wrong turn. We could not see another road where the GPS said it was so we kept going and it curved back into the GPS map.

-

[Tourmeister]

:tab That's the road I was thinking of. I've wondered about it for years and simply have never had the chance to go find out for myself ;-)

[brewer90]

I just rode this road on Saturday with four other guys on F650s. We went from the east off 336 to the west and hit 335. It was dusty and fun but not technical at all. We didn't have a GPS and were winging it but it's pretty obvious which is the correct road once you go through the first big green gate.

[fastmonstr]

BTW There's a nice Honda 650 for sale rightover in the for sale topic!

You know you want one!!

http://fastmonstr.smugmug.com/photos/19903860-M.jpg

Hey, I recognize that pic!!!

[Hoop]

that's a nice picture. It looks like I'm going fast too.

[dolomiti]

i have an '03 Dakar and have run it at 85-90mph for 1.5-2 hours on the hwy with no problems

[Jack Giesecke]

I'm used to the "in the wind" feel. However, my old XL600's seat was a pain on a one hour ride, let alone a 9 hour one! :eek:

[Rodger De]

I like the In the Wind feel that's what a motorcycle is all about wind in your face(helmet)...I have a 06 KLR 650 & I just lovre it.. It is a heavy bike, but it does pretty good on the back road's too..I ride about 60/40 on the road's around here. Ride a KTM 620 today it's a nice bike more dirt bike type of motorcycle & it cost'a a lil more than my KLR, Dual -sportin is a blast....Ride On8-)

[XR650Rocketman]

Rocketman.....Check the rider in the photos on posts 6 and 8 on this thread....That's Rocketman....I private messaged you....

[fastmonstr]

Rocketman.....Check the rider in the photos on posts 6 and 8 on this thread....That's Rocketman....I private messaged you....

Where have I seen those pics before?

[ColGoodnight]

... but I touched on all popular 'DS' bikes.

Well, I don't have any sales figures, so I don't know "popular", but there's also the Aprilia Capo Nord, Buell Ulysses, Honda Ruckus, Husqvarna TE610, Kawasaki KLX250S, MZ Baghira Enduro, MZ 125SX, Suzuki DR200SE, Ural Patrol, Ural Gear-Up, Yamaha XT225 and Yamaha TW200.

Tom

[Tourmeister]

Of all of those mentioned by Tom in the previous post, I have been really lusting after that Husky 610!! The Baghira would be a close second followed by one of the sidecar hacks so I could take Sarah riding! ;-)

[gotdurt]

Well, I don't have any sales figures, so I don't know "popular", but there's also the Aprilia Capo Nord, Buell Ulysses, Honda Ruckus, Husqvarna TE610, Kawasaki KLX250S, MZ Baghira Enduro, MZ 125SX, Suzuki DR200SE, Ural Patrol, Ural Gear-Up, Yamaha XT225 and Yamaha TW200.

Well, at the time that was written, the Ulysses was unreleased and unreviewed, the Aprilia, Husky, MZ and Ural(!) are available if you look hard enough, but not exactly common (and I haven't ridden them or known anyone who had), and I only included 400cc and larger. I wouldn't exactly classify the Ruckus and TW as "dual sport motorcycles" ;-) .

[ColGoodnight]

I wouldn't exactly classify the Ruckus and TW as "dual sport motorcycles".

Why not? They're both street legal motorcycles with wide section, multi-surface tread tires, increased fender clearance, wide bars, raised pipes and engines tuned and geared in compromise to mixed street/dirt use. I can't imagine why else they would have these design features, or what other category they would be in.

Dual sport riding today is perhaps broader than just the way one person practices it. Over 70,000 Harley-Davidson WLAs served the US military in the dual sport role with distinction during WWII. The sons and daughters of those WLA riders, the baby boomers, grew up riding dual sports - but lightweight, European and Japanese built machines of as little as 1/10th the displacement. In 2005, I wouldn't recomend a Ruckus for a ride to Deadhorse, but I wouldn't buy an Adventure 950 for a 15 y.o. to ride in the pasture and to school, either.

Tom

[gotdurt]

Why not? They're both street legal motorcycles with wide section, multi-surface tread tires, increased fender clearance, wide bars, raised pipes and engines tuned and geared in compromise to mixed street/dirt use. I can't imagine why else they would have these design features, or what other category they would be in.

Dual sport riding today is perhaps broader than just the way one person practices it. Over 70,000 Harley-Davidson WLAs served the US military in the dual sport role with distinction during WWII. The sons and daughters of those WLA riders, the baby boomers, grew up riding dual sports - but lightweight, European and Japanese built machines of as little as 1/10th the displacement. In 2005, I wouldn't recomend a Ruckus for a ride to Deadhorse, but I wouldn't buy an Adventure 950 for a 15 y.o. to ride in the pasture and to school, either.

I originally started the thread in response to a quickly growing interest on the board regarding larger DS bikes for longer distance offroading, adventure touring and longer backroad rides, as well as a general response to several members who were contacting me with questions about particular bikes. I'm not saying that none of the bikes you mentioned has a place as a street legal trail machine, they just don't fit the profile of the types of bikes and riding in question at the time...

[Tx Rider]

I originally started the thread in response to a quickly growing interest on the board regarding larger DS bikes for longer distance offroading, adventure touring and longer backroad rides, as well as a general response to several members who were contacting me with questions about particular bikes. I'm not saying that none of the bikes you mentioned has a place as a street legal trail machine, they just don't fit the profile of the types of bikes and riding in question at the time...

Smaller bikes can be ok for some, When I was a teen I rode my SL350 twin miles and miles including runs from Alvin (south of Houston) to Port Arthur on I-10 at 70mph and old hwy 87 and back and regular 100 mile round trip DS rides to the beach and all over Houston Freeways.

That's why I have my eye out for a light twin DS bike now, the twin is smoother and the seem to last longer. The little aprillia twin is looking good if it's not too small for leg room.

[vfrhugh]

Different options with photos.
http://www.dsadventures.com/dsbikes.htm
Check out the KTM525 project. That's basicly what I'm doing with my 520. It's inspected and insured but I'm still waiting on the title. I should have a plate in a week or two.:rider:

[makenzie71]

Some of you guys may not believe it, but another great trailing bike is the Ulysses. I typically get a lot of flak about promoting a Buell but this one hangs with the competition rather well. It's not a lightweight and it's really not in it's niche hitting the mud and really adverse terrains, but it's actually an exellent, very sure-footed trail/creek/woods bike. I was suprised.

[Cagiva 549]

I rode a 600 KLR for years , Donkey trails in Mexico , mountian trails in New Mexico , Back roads and trails all over south east Texas, I even took it deer hunting one time , caught one too, I couldn't carry it back to camp , had to get a four wheeler for that . The KLR was great off road, I took it almost any where you could get a 250 smoker through. If I could go around a big mud hole I would but if I had too I could get through it . The highway was a different story 200 miles at 70 would beat you bad . When it came time for replacement I wanted something a little better on the highway. Some sacrifice of dirt ability would be ok. The 650 class bikes were all replacements but not improvements so I started looking at big bikes . The choices were 1150 GS and Tiger . I messed with Triumph back in the 70's and am way too cheap for a BMW so I had too keep looking I had drooled at Transalp and Gagiva Elephant back in the early 90's but both were out of production than I discovered that a few 900 Cagiva's were available the search was on . I had one shipped to Lone Star from the importer, they had a demo but werent ready to sell it . I picked up the bike and loved it . Excelent wind protection great handeling, outstanding brakes , plenty of giddyup and comfortable . Five years later it's still my favorite , off rode is limited , not so much by the bike but by the cost of plastic if you do bounce it of the rocks . I wouldn't be intrested in taking a lap on a motocross track but I havent been on a dry jeep trail that I had to turn around and backtrack . I'm not looking for any mud pits or sand piles to ride in ethier. Finding a bike that can carve twistys and never go below the posted speed and then jump on the dirt road and short cut over to the next set of twistys , thats what I was looking for, Throw in a long weekend trip to BB park than New Mexico and back every year or so is fine too. Love my GC . Now the 950 KTM takes off road to a higher level , more engine, more suspension , more expensive . more than the GC in every way except comfort . It is still capable of running to Arkansas for a weekend of twisty and off road mix . Some times I think it's almost too much power for dirt . I haven't tried knobbys yet , that's going to be intresting . It is so much fun on pavement I hate to loose any highway handeling. Thats what makes picking a bike so much fun . it really helps if you know what you expect from the bike before you buy . The lightweight 600 class bikes will shine off road but you will need a truck or trailer for long distance trips, And the liter bikes can do the distance but you have to keep your off road limited to two track riding . When I rode trip to faraway places I tend to ride off road very conservatively , breaking your bike in the booneys 500 miles from home would be very expensive. Duel Sporting is the best of two worlds when you think about it . A bike that can do 500 mile plus days then cut through the mountains on jeep trails is two bikes in one , if it does both well it's going to cost more , you just bought two bikes for the price of one. And I love it. SEYA in the dirt