Rusty's GPS Class

[Richard_]

TAR Riders,

Rusty (woodbutcher here on TWT) has kindly agreed to give a GPS class during TAR 2009. If you have a gps or want to get one, I highly recommend his class to you.

Here are the details:

Friday night, April 3rd, 7:30 p.m., Isaak's Restaurant banquet room. Seating is limited so first come first served.


Thank you Rusty for volunteering your time and effort to teach this class.

[BIG A]

Thank you Rusty!!!! :clap: I for one will be there, am still any electronics, and GPS challenged. :giveup:

[tricepilot]

Sign me up please.

Bob (from Mahahual, Quintana Roo, MX)

[WoodButcher]

Just show up. Bring you questions and even your GPS unit. I'm going to concentrate on Garmin's, but if somebody has another brand let me know and I'll try to prep for that too.

In fact, if someone in the Austin area has a TomTom I can play with for a day or two, I'd really appreciate it.

[TexasShadow]

I won't be there, but I am curious: will this be a hands-on outdoor orientation type class?

[WoodButcher]

Nope. I'm going to concentrate on using a GPS on a bike to follow routes. Particularly the tricks to mixed pavement and offroad routes. I'll cover creating the routes, following them, converting tracks to routes. Also, what to do when things don't go like you planned.

[TexasShadow]

Nope. I'm going to concentrate on using a GPS on a bike to follow routes. Particularly the tricks to mixed pavement and offroad routes. I'll cover creating the routes, following them, converting tracks to routes. Also, what to do when things don't go like you planned.Ah, the "When the Best Laid Routes Go Terribly Wrong" :mrgreen:
(been there)
Sounds great, Rusty. :clap:

[bigdon55]

Sign me up!

[SteveON]

Rusty it was nice to meet you at the Sonic on the way back from Big Bend. I look forward to your class.
Steve

[bigdon55]

Rusty or Richard , I need help before Friday!
I am downloading the TAR routes into my GPS.
When I try and simulate running a route it tells me that it will not follow exactly and wants me to recalculate. If I do that it will not send me down all the good roads.
Is there an easy fix other than going through each route and drawing over them in my mapsource?

[WoodButcher]

PM me or post up what model GPS you are using and what maps you are using. I'll see what I can figure it out.

[bigdon55]

Be on the way shortly!

[rwheless]

If one wanted to start using GPS, which device(s) would be best to start with? Any suggestions?

If I get one, I will want to attend the class.

Thanks!

[WoodButcher]

What/where are you going to use it? Offroad/trail riding/hiking? Then the first that comes to mind is the Garmin GPSMAP 60cx or csx. Bike and car? One of the Garmin Zumo's is a good choice, but not the cheapest way to go. Car only? there are a lot to choose from there, but I'd think about mapping software, mapsets, and whether you just want it for routing or whether you want track logs to see where you've been. And whether it needs to be compatible with a gps you have or might get. ie, don't get a Delmorme PN40 for offroad/hking if you are going to put a Garmin Zumo on a street bike and the car. Might as well settle on one software program to control them both.

[rwheless]

I would use it for on and off road navigation on trail rides. I suppose theremight be a use for making way points on a hike.

[WoodButcher]

Definitely the 60cx or 60csx. Nice durable handheld unit. The 76cx and 76csx are similar screen size, but different from factor. A little bigger and meant for boats. The Delorme PN-40 looks interesting too. The previous version was slow, but this one seems better. With their software you can download routes, waypoints and maps. But you can also download their aerial and satellite images too. So you can have a kind of google maps thing going on. I haven't got my hands on one of those yet though.

But if I were looking for a handheld the 60cx and PN-40 would be the two.

Oh yeah, the s in the csx is for sensor. That means electronic compass and barometric altimeter. Just means the compass works when you are standing still and the altimeter is more accurate. The non-sensor can only tell which way the unit is facing when you are moving and gets altitude only when it has four or more satellites. Both of which are sufficient for most needs.

[rwheless]

I may just snake one of those for TAR. See you there.

[bigdon55]

IMO I would stick with a Garmin Unit!
A large percentage of the guys that ride use Garmin. It is very easy to find someone to help you if you have a problem. Then when you learn how to use it, you can help the rest of us.:lol2:
I use a Garmin 276c for my dual sport stuff and a Garmin 2610 and 2820 for road bike and auto use.
The 276c has an internal battery and will let you follow previous tracks. The 2610 has no battery and will not follow tracks.
Listen to Rusty, he is our go to guy for technical info!:clap:

[jredford]

If one wanted to start using GPS, which device(s) would be best to start with? Any suggestions?

If I get one, I will want to attend the class.

Thanks!

My vote would be for the Garmin Zumo 550. Very user friendly and durable. They also have awesome customer svc!

:clap:

[WoodButcher]

I just hesitate to recommend so expensive for offroad use only. Besides it is kind of limited by battery life. So it isn't useful for hiking and he would have to wire it in to the bike battery. A 60cx will go over 12 hours on a set of batteries.

[rwheless]

I found a good deal on the 60csx. Should be here today!

[WoodButcher]

don't forget a mount. I recomend the RAM mount set up.

[rwheless]

I am not sure what a RAM setup is, but I ordered one that clamps to the handlebar. The GPS is here today, but the mount is not.

Thanks for the input.

[WoodButcher]

RAM is a brand that makes good gps mounts. If you got the Garmin one, it might not be rugged enough for any offroading. Make sure you attach a lanyard (string) as a back up. Check out GPScity for RAM mounts.

[rwheless]

Ah, I think it is a Garmin accessory that I ordered. Oh well, it was only about $12. I will batton it down real good with Gorilla tape and get the right mount later.

Thanks!

[RacerJohn]

I’m definitely planning to attend, but my reason has nothing to do with motorcycles.

Rusty, if you’ll allow me to share this story, it is the main reason why I want to attend your class. It’s an affirmation of the value of a GPS that I did not realize until this story below happened to me. I have never owned a GPS device.

My 19 year old daughter and her girlfriend drove to Houston from Austin a few weeks ago, at night in bad weather. My daughter is very “directionally challenged”. There’s no use asking her if she’s going north or south. She has no sense of direction. They are confusing terms to her (well l, they can be confusing to me, too….but back to the story…..).

She and her friend took off Friday at ~ 7pm, on an ‘unannounced’ (to me at least) trip from Austin to visit her aunt's home in Pearland. She has never driven to from Austin to Houston before. And now she’s doing it after dark, and her destination is south of Houston. Which is a little scary (for mom and dad) as she usually has trouble finding her way around Austin. :uhoh:

Am I worried about them, or their security? Nah! My daughter is (only) 5'3" tall; her girlfriend is 4'11". :-(....they can protect themselves!


And she did not ask me for any advance guidance on how to get to Pearland from Austin. That is not typical of her, but I understand, this is part of growing up. I am all in favor of teens growing up. I did it once.

So, she and her girlfriend are on the way to Houston, in the dark (in more ways than one, I am thinking :lol2:). But, they are both young adults, and trustworthy. One possible problem: Neither one know how to read maps -- at all!

About 30 mins after she left Austin, my cell phone rings. “Dad, we are on Hwy 290 and just passed Elgin. Are we going the right way? “. I pause. I need to suppress all my incredulous thoughts. “Yes”, I said. “Ok, just wanted to be sure! Thanks!” and she ends the call.

I love her candor and honesty. But I look at my wife and shake my head…”it’s going to be a long drive for them” :doh:. I figure they’ll be stopping every 30 mins for directions, and/ or soon calling us and asking us to read a map for them, and tell them which highway to look for (that happens when she’s in Austin!).

Ok, here’s where I try to get relevant to this thread (I hope:lol2:).

About 2 hours later, I had not heard from her, so I called. Then she told me that her girlfriend had recently bought a GPS device – and had it with her! yay! She knew enough to input the destination of her aunt’s home in Pearland, and all she had to do was watch the maps and listen for the commands. I felt much better! They arrived in Pearland without any problem. :clap:

On her next birthday (if not sooner), my daughter will be getting a GPS device as a gift from me. It would be good if I learned how to use one.

I realize Rusty’s presentation is TWT, older, more mature, (likely gray-hair or no hair) focused. He is not targeting the "teenage, blonde girl, directionally and geographically challenged”. Maybe that will be in Rusty's focus in a different class. There might be a market for it!

So, Rusty, I’m coming to your class next Friday, to teach an old dog some new tricks! (Or, my daughter will teach me, once she gets her unit!).

So, if any of you are like me: you have a loved one who cannot do much more with a map than spell the word (male OR Female!), you may want to attend. Rusty is a very good teacher and really knows his stuff!!

[TexasShadow]

How was the class?

Since I've had my 60csx (I thank kurt every time I use it ;) ), I have wanted to learn how to utilize the topo and navigation functions in combination with topo maps and compass. In other words, do some serious orienteering with it. I'm wondering if anyone else might be interested enough to plan a field workshop.

If anyone is interested, let me know. I'll try to put one together late spring (before June).

[Kidder]

Elzi,

I may take you up on that. I have a Garmin 2610.

Judd

[WoodButcher]

I covered more of the quirks of creating and follow routes when the roads don't always match the mapsets. Also quirks of working with routes created on other mapsets. We talked mostly about zumo's and 60cx's. With some discussion of the garmin chartplotter series (276, 376, 478)

A class for orienteering use of the gps would be interesting too.

[TexasShadow]

I may take you up on that. I have a Garmin 2610.Cool!

I'm going to contact the local Sierra clubs to see if one of their members would do a field-day workshop. My map/compass skills are rusty (pun intended ;) ) and my GPS skills rudimentary. Whereas I know many Sierra club members are skilled in mountaineering and wilderness navigation. Acquiring such skills will be useful for dual sport riders and hikers alike, perhaps street riders, too.

Having a small map with topo info to augment maps of City Navigator on the hand-held GPS a few weeks ago in the Terlingua desert really impressed upon me the usefulness of these navigation aids and skills to use them. I was wishing then I had a compass on me, too. Despite all the technology in GPS units, they do not replace a good map and compass. (I also need a good pair of compact binoculars)

[Ron T]

Just show up. Bring you questions and even your GPS unit. I'm going to concentrate on Garmin's, but if somebody has another brand let me know and I'll try to prep for that too.

In fact, if someone in the Austin area has a TomTom I can play with for a day or two, I'd really appreciate it.
I am looking for a GPS that will work well for off road rural routes as well as the main street info. I have never owned one and would like to keep the cost around $200.00. I is suggested that I look at the Garmin nuvi 205w. Do you have any recs?

[TexasShadow]

I covered more of the quirks of creating and follow routes when the roads don't always match the mapsets. Also quirks of working with routes created on other mapsets. We talked mostly about zumo's and 60cx's. With some discussion of the garmin chartplotter series (276, 376, 478). I wish I had been able to attend this!
A class for orienteering use of the gps would be interesting too.If I could recruit someone to teach and lead a field workshop, would you be interested in participating?

[WoodButcher]

As with most things for me, it depends on when and where. But yes, I'd be interested. I haven't done any real navigating since I was a Boy Scout and could use and update on doing it with modern tools.

[Kidder]

Cool!

I'm going to contact the local Sierra clubs to see if one of their members would do a field-day workshop. My map/compass skills are rusty (pun intended ;) ) and my GPS skills rudimentary. Whereas I know many Sierra club members are skilled in mountaineering and wilderness navigation. Acquiring such skills will be useful for dual sport riders and hikers alike, perhaps street riders, too.

Having a small map with topo info to augment maps of City Navigator on the hand-held GPS a few weeks ago in the Terlingua desert really impressed upon me the usefulness of these navigation aids and skills to use them. I was wishing then I had a compass on me, too. Despite all the technology in GPS units, they do not replace a good map and compass. (I also need a good pair of compact binoculars)

I will need a really long extension cord since mine doesn't run on batteries. :rofl:

[mcrider]

Rusty,
Sorry I missed your class, I was on a bike rescue mission to 41 & 377. My son's bike spit out most of the oil. :giveup:

I did have one question, other than your tricks. We were navigating Lucky 13 & when we got to 41 & 335 the route said turn south on 335 in lieu of going on to Hackberry Rd. The route looks good on the computer. What's up with that?

I have a Garmin 60CSx with topo & city navigator both loaded. When I select a route the GPS auto-routes with out asking. I think that is the problem. routing setup is: follow road; shorter distance; pop-up on. The follow road options are: recalculation off; quickest calculation; car/motorcycle; avoid: u-turns, tool roads, carpool lanes.

I cannot make it not auto-route on loading.

Ride #3 did fine. :rider:

.

[WoodButcher]

Yep, Lucky 13 is one of the special ones that can mess you up. 2169(I think that is the number) and Bull Head don't connect on garmin maps, but they do in real life. So when Richard creates the route for that he has a waypoint at the end of 2169 and one 30 yards away on Bull head rd. As he makes the route, he switches from auto route to direct route between those two points, then back to auto. It looks fine in mapsource until you recalculate. Once you do that it drops that short section and routes you around on roads. Until garmin gets the maps to match reality there, that's the way it will be.

Probably your gps recalced when it loaded and you got the long way around.

The only other way is to break it up into two parts. Ride to the end of 2169, then load part 2 that starts at Bull Head.

And we talked about this very route and this problem in the class.

[TLRam1]

I just saw this and would be interested if a class was around the metro-plex. I have the Zumo 450, might get another for dual sporting, would like to know more about track logs, orienteering, etc.

[tx246]

Is it just me or is it easier to plan a ride using tracks instead of routes? With the mapsource track tool, it is just a point and click where you want to go. It works with both on road or off, doesnt care what mapset you are using, and does not leave that big ugly purple line. The track being navigated can be made any color. I understand that some units do not use tracks and routes are the only option.

[ladybeemer]

I just bought a Garmin 2820 Streetpilot. I haven't a clue about GPS but plan to open the box soon:wary:
I have some other projects to complete that are taking up my free time for the next week or so, but I would like to have the chance to attend any workshops you guys plan on having.

[cawmd82]

Rusty....or anyone else who has the facts straight.....Does anyone have a concise way to plan a route in Google Maps-or for that matter Yahoo or MS--where it is easy enough to plan, modify, store, etc. a route and then manipulate that into a gpx file or otherwise get it into your GPS-a Garmin in my case. I have used Easy GPS for some conversions but cannot seem to get the data out of GoogleMaps. There has to be an easy way to do this........
__________________
CAWMD82
Honda XR650r
BMW 1200GS
Triumph Tiger
And a ton of vintage misc

[WoodButcher]

Honestly, I do my route creation in Mapsource so it actually meshes correctly with the maps on the gps. I'll use google earth to do some planning, but create the route in mapsource.

That being said, I have seen a thread on ADVrider where somebody figured out a process.

Okay I just typed up a long response then did a double check on ADVrider and decided to delete what I typed and just point to that thread. They mention a couple of sites with ways to do it.

Key seems to be that you will still need to recalc in Mapsource to get the route to follow the roads in your mapset. Then send it to the gps.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301727&highlight=google+maps

[cawmd82]

Thanks I have a lot of time next week to sort through all this.

CAW

[cawmd82]

OK I went thru the thread and see how that works....

Switching gears....So you use Mapsource for planning in general.....

Are you using the Mapsource North America City Streets base map? Is that adequate for planning around the hill country and Big Bend dirt roads?

Sorry to sound stupid, I am just determined to figure out the easy way to do this......

Am I correct to assume that the Delorme Street Atlas cannot be used in Mapsource somehow? I happen to have a copy of it. Talk about a non intuitive user interface!!!!

CAW

[WoodButcher]

Correct. Mapsource is Garmin's software for working with their different map products. I call them mapsets just to distinguish from the software. So City Navigator North America is their prime mapset and preloaded on a lot of their units. It has a lot of roads and when I'm in Big Bend it does all I want. I also have their Topo 2008 maps loaded on both my Pc and GPS so I can switch over in case there is something extra in Topo.

You can create routes in Delorme and get those on a Garmin unit, but the maps can't be sent to it. The problem is if you create a route in a Delorme Street Atlas and send it to a Garmin, because the map data may not be exactly the same, some of your route waypoints may not correspond to the same places. ie on the road in one and 100 yards off in the other. So your route will be a little funny on the gps. Far simpler to just create the routes in Mapsource for sending to a Garmin gps.

Same goes for using Delorme Street Atlas to create routes and send maps and routes to delorme gps's. Or for Magellan gps's.

[mcrider]

[hijack]
Rusty, you know there is a converter box to cleanup your antilog avatar.

:rofl:

[/end hijack]

.

[cawmd82]

Rusty:

Any hint on how to get Mapsource-City Navigator to display county and local roads on greater than a 1 mile scale? I have it set to "highest" detail. It seems to me to be a pain for figuring out a relatively direct route using back roads.



CAW

[WoodButcher]

Nope, as far as I have found, that's it. My method is a big monitor and high resolution with Mapsource full screen. :rofl: