Need advice regarding Legalizing dirt bike for street

[Tourmeister]

Okay Dirty gurus,

http://www.twtex.com/viewtopic.php?t=4729

What do you think? All the reviews I have found love the bike. Looks like it is well setup for the kind of riding I would be doing most often on it, trails. The only thing I am uncertain about is that there is no title, just a bill of sale from the previous owner. So while it has pretty much everything it needs to be street legal, how would I go about finishing that off so I can ride it around here to get to the woods? Please be specific as I have ZERO experience in this regard.

Adios,

[WoodButcher]

Okay, first the good news. It has the WR stator which means higher output. Has the Baja kit for lights too. You will need to hook them up, but since the wiring is there it shouldn't be tough. The guys at Baja Designs are very helpful (I'm assuming that's where the Baja kit came from). That's got enough power it will be fine on the road, but I think the yz has fewer speeds in the tranny than the WR, so you might find the top speed a little low for highway use. Changing sprockets can help, but you will lose the ability to go slow when you gear it up for the road. This I know well, as I swap my front sprocket out for street riding and back to smaller for the dirt on the DRZ.

Bad news, you need the tittle. There is a process for getting a tittle replacement, but it is easier to go back to the original owner to get them to do it, as I remember. I have no experience trying to do this part myself so I can't tell you exactly how.

[dan-o]

Hi Scott,
If you can find the original owner he can apply for a lost title. If not you need two appraisals to get a bonded title. You can call TDOT in Austin or maybe your local TDOT. What the title bond does is protect you from future lawsuits or seizures if the vehicle was stolen/abandoned with liens. If is about $100-200 to get a bonded title. Here is a FAQ link...

Once you have the title all you have to do is: insure it, get it inspected and then you can get your tags. I love Texas.
:chug:

http://www.lawrenceautotitle.com/FAQ1.htm

[WoodButcher]

Here is a link for the inspection items. Pick Motorcycle from the top list and hit go for a general list. For specifics, pick the actual item from the lower list. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/inspection/item_class.asp

Here is what I can find about titling. http://www.dot.state.tx.us/vtr/vtrreginfo.htm?pg=faq#titling Things get interesting with offroad titles also. I would try calling or emailing the registration office in your area to ask them how to proceed.

[WoodButcher]

Ding, Ding,, Ding, we may have a winner. ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/forms/vtr-330.pdf

Looks like what you need to get a off road vehicle titled as a off road or on road if you don't have the original paperwork.

[gotdurt]

If you get it, keep us posted on what you go through...

[Tourmeister]

Ding, Ding,, Ding, we may have a winner. ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/forms/vtr-330.pdf

I think this is only for vehicles older than 1975. Wonder if there is something similar for newer vehicles. There is a bill of sale from the previous owner and the current owner says the VIN is clean (I have not verified it but don't doubt him).

Adios,

[Tx Rider]

I think you'll have to go through one of these.

http://www.hcvoter.com/Forms/MV-146-A.pdf

At any rate the folks down at your tax asessors office could answer this with a phone call I'm sure.

[WoodButcher]

Ding, Ding,, Ding, we may have a winner. ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/forms/vtr-330.pdf

I think this is only for vehicles older than 1975. Wonder if there is something similar for newer vehicles. There is a bill of sale from the previous owner and the current owner says the VIN is clean (I have not verified it but don't doubt him).

Adios,

How did I miss that? Guess I was to excited that I found something. Dyna-sport's link looks like a similar process. I kept looking at the other .pdf files on the site I gave you. There was one to do a title check, but it had a lot of restrictions on it. Seems like that's what you need to do to see if you can locate the first owner, then get him to sign it over. The other possibility is that the original owner never got anything and the dealer still has it.

[bushwhacker]

This has the requirements for a title hearing for Fort Bend County, but I am sure most counties in Texas are pretty much the same.

https://actweb.acttax.com/act_webdev/fbc/Documentation/TitleHearingRequirements.pdf

[Tourmeister]

:tab My local office tells me the ONLY way to get it done is to have a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin. To get this, I would need to contact the original owner who should have received it from the Dealership or perhaps given it to the second owner when he sold the bike. With this, I can then go get a title and register the bike.

Adios,

[WoodButcher]

:tab My local office tells me the ONLY way to get it done is to have a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin. To get this, I would need to contact the original owner who should have received it from the Dealership or perhaps given it to the second owner when he sold the bike. With this, I can then go get a title and register the bike.

Adios,

What a pain. I would make sure you try and track this down before you commit on the bike. If the current owner doesn't have enough history to help you track it down, I would pass on it because it might take a long time to sort through it.

Wonder if that is why it isn't plated already?

[dan-o]

I received a bonded title for my 1974 DT175 Yamaha with no real problem (it is already street legal and the bond was only for 350$, the most I would be out). The only real exposure you will have is if it has a lien or it's stolen. The title they give you should be a 'normal' title since you'll need appraisals and pictures of the bike. All that the county really wants is the tax money anyway. Here in Kinney county we have street legal golf carts :lol: I think most of the issues you'll have are dependant on the County Court Clerk or their representative...

[Hood Ornament]

Ding, Ding,, Ding, we may have a winner. ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/forms/vtr-330.pdf

I think this is only for vehicles older than 1975. Wonder if there is something similar for newer vehicles. There is a bill of sale from the previous owner and the current owner says the VIN is clean (I have not verified it but don't doubt him).

Adios,

How did I miss that? Guess I was to excited that I found something. Dyna-sport's link looks like a similar process. I kept looking at the other .pdf files on the site I gave you. There was one to do a title check, but it had a lot of restrictions on it. Seems like that's what you need to do to see if you can locate the first owner, then get him to sign it over. The other possibility is that the original owner never got anything and the dealer still has it.

There probably isn't a title for the bike. Back in those days it was optional to get a title for dirt only bikes and they charged something like $500 for them.

[Hoop]

Look, maybe it's just me, and the bike sounds like it's got a lot of goodies on it, but when I read that it's a 99 YZ400 with a 426 kit in it, I don't need to go any further. Here are my concerns with this and similar bikes:

1. If it runs great, and you like it exactly as it is, then wonderful. If you don't like the pipe, or it has a flat spot in the power band, or there's anything about the motor you don't like, you're screwed, because it is so far from stock that no one will be able to help you tune it.

2. The early Yama 400's did not have anything like a 4-stroke power band, they hit very hard. Ok, maybe this one's got a flywheel weight. It's still not an XR or DRZ or CRF or even a KTM 4-stroke. It might make a good dirt bike for an experienced rider, but for putting around in the dirt or riding on the street, you do not need the mid-range hit that characterized these bikes.

3. No title - forget it. My experience, which is a few years old, you have to trace the bike back to the original owner and provide a chain of ownership from the MSO to you (bills of sale for each change of ownership). You have to have the local cops run a serial number check to prove it's not stolen. The seller should do this for you, otherwise absolutely no deal.

4. I'd be interested to know why the previous owner(s) made so many performance mods to the bike if it hasn't been raced. If it has been raced, then expect the unexptected in terms of wear and tear to things like frame joints, mounting posts for footpegs, bearings everywhere, the list goes on and on.

OK, I'll stop. I like new stuff, or lightly-used stuff, and this doesn't sound like it.

[Bagwell]

Well, the 400s and the 426s were very similar in almost everything except displacement etc. Many people have done the 426 kit with no problems and dont have a problem finding pipes or anything. The 426s use the same pipe usually, as well as many other same products as the 400.

I would check with someone like Patrick at Motorcycles Unlimited or Tommy at Houston Motorcycle Exchange on the title stuff. Those guys do titles all day long and are familiar with what is needed and what things can be done.

Vaughn

[Chirpy]

Also the 400 has a 5 speed tranny, the 426s went to a 4 speed.

The 426 was a VERY common swap, as the only real difference between the 400 and 426 was the barrel...I'm not even sure you needed a new top end!

The stator is why I sold mine, it and the light kit alone was almost 2 grand.

Buy it tour, or I might have to, I REALLY liked mine :twisted:

[Tourmeister]

:tab Hoop, it was raced briefly by the original owner. I have no idea why he sold it. The current owner is the second owner and has had the bike a few years. He's used it as a trail rider. However, since I have no experience with dirt bikes, I appreciate your feedback. The title issue is a big deal for me. If the paperwork is not up to snuff, I walk away. Other deals will come along...

:tab I have been reading on various forums like TON and Thumper talk about the bike. It seems to be well liked by most everyone, even the folks that don't ride them as their personal ride. I am thinking that if I get the price down, then it might be a decent entry bike for trail riding. Also, if the title stuff can be worked out, it takes very little to make this bike streetable. Having it street legal is a big deal for me as I don't have a truck and trailer to haul it everywhere when I want to go riding.

:tab There are newer bikes like the DRZ-400's, the XR-400, etc,... However, I cannot afford to plop down that kind of cash. So it will have to be used and most dirtbikes see fairly rough duty. So I would look for things like weeping seals, worn sprockets, indications of fatigue and cracking around weld joints, etc,... The prices I am seeing for other YZ400F's similarly outfitted are $1500-$1800. I don't think I could touch any thing much newer for less. But, I am not in a huge hurry and can afford to wait and shop.

Adios,

[Bagwell]

Remember though, this is no entry dirt bike. It is an all out race bike, and was designed to compete with 2 stroke 250s in motorcross, and the WR version being the version designed to compete in enduro races. The differences between the YZF and the WRF engines are mostly just transmission and timing. Other differences are the WR has a radiator catch tank where the YZ doesnt and the WR has lights and stator and the YZF doesnt, the WR has a heavier flywheel than the YZF.

Vaughn

[gotdurt]

Scott, here's what you need to look for:
http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/7/6/79462376.htm
It's a bit more, but it's clean and practical. Much better woods bike for a beginner than a race tuned WR400; much easier to handle at low speeds etc. If you wait, you can find a late 90's model for well under $2k, quite possibly even street legal.

[WoodButcher]

Scott, I didn't know a DRZ400 was on your list. Saw a E model in your price range a while back. I'll keep my eyes peeled for those and xr400's too. With title and plate, right? :-D

[Hood Ornament]

The prices on the DRZ's are definately coming down. The new gen enduro bikes are seeing to that. I paid just a little over $2K for my '01 DRZ E. Of course I've put another $1K since I bought it. :lol:

[Tourmeister]

:tab Bikes like the XR400's, DRZ400's would be great. It is just that I have not seen them for much less than $3500. If the prices are coming down, well... cool!!

:tab Regarding an entry bike, I am not a complete total newb. So while something like the YZF may be a raceable bike, that does not mean I will be riding it like that. I have enough experience that I think I can take it easy, work up in small steps, and do so hopefully without killing myself ;-)

:tab What I want is a bike that is trail worthy and can be ridden on the street. It does not have to be the ultimate trail bike, just something to play on. I don't plan on doing any racing. Nor do I plan on doing any monster tours on it. It would be nice if it were something I could trailer up to Arkansas and then spend the weekend riding offroad with the possibilty of camping a nite or two. The issues of carrying luggage could be a problem with anything short of a 650. But the majority of the use of the bike would be riding from my house down to the trailheads and spending an evening or morning putting around in the woods. The longer excursions would be the exception. For serious stuff, I would still be using the pack mule :-P

Adios,

[gotdurt]

:tab Bikes like the XR400's, DRZ400's would be great. It is just that I have not seen them for much less than $3500. If the prices are coming down, well... cool!!
XR400's have been around a while, and little has changed other than"bold new graphics". If you wait, one will come up. The one in the link I posted is a newer, nice, low-hr specimen for under $3k, and he'll likely deal. I'd rather go there than the WR400 for $2100.

:tab Regarding an entry bike, I am not a complete total newb. So while something like the YZF may be a raceable bike, that does not mean I will be riding it like that. I have enough experience that I think I can take it easy, work up in small steps, and do so hopefully without killing myself ;-)
I didn't realize we were talking about a YZF, I was thinking WR, which is still designed for less technical, higher speed riding (than XR). The YZF will be a handfull. Then there's the lighting issues.... I'd definitely start with an enduro. The XR, IMO, would be a much more fun 'play bike'. Better gearing, a little torquier from the bottom with an obstacle-friendly power band, geometry/ergos designed more for low-speed handling, and no radiator, so no need to carry JB weld on the rides! And, believe it or not, you'll likely ride faster on the XR in the woods (than on an MXer). They're 2 very different bikes. Not that you won't have fun on the YZF, of course :roll:

[WoodButcher]

I paid $2800 for my 01 DRZ400s a year and a half ago. I recently saw one for less, but it sold quickly. There is one with low miles on the TON for too much money. If you want to carry some luggage on the back than the S is model for you. It has a different subframe that supports up under the fender. Plus it has passenger pegs for two up riding. Umm, you know, to help your buddy back to camp after he trashes his bike.

I see DRZ's and XR's for sale ocasionally and I'll let you know if one pops up under $2500. A friend here in town got a plated xr400 for $1800 last fall. Not really legal though. A mechanic converted it and must have done his own inspection. No brake light at all. It was an '96 or '97 bike, but he had upgraded the carb. Not too much has changed on the xr400's so if they haven't been abused, an older one is still a good bike.

[Hoop]

re luggage, I've seen on advrider pics of guys that mount the big plastic tail boxes (like Givi's) on DRZ's. It's ugly, but I guess it works. I don't remember if it was the S or off-road model though.

I echo the remarks re XR's and DRZ's, of course you know I'm biased. The DRZ is a better bike than the XR in just about every regard. I upgraded from a 96 XR4, it was a major upgrade. Get the kick-only model DRZ if you can find one, they are pretty scarce, but very easy to start and lighter than the e-start.

The only advantages the XR has:
easier to change jets
easier to change plug
no radiator (but if you boil the DRZ, you're doing something wrong)
sturdier side cases (but easily remedied on the DRZ)

ok, I'll stop.

[WoodButcher]

I keep thinking about adding the kick to my S. One of these days I'm going to be stuck pushing it and really wish I had done it.

[Tourmeister]

:tab Hoop, no need to stop ;-) I need all the education I can get if I am going to make a smart buy! Seriously though, how much weight does the Estart add? Considering that I won't be doing competition riding on the thing, does another 10-12 lbs really make that big of a difference?! Remember, I will be coming from a 600lb pig and anything sub 400lbs will feel like a feather to me!

Adios,

[gotdurt]

:tab Hoop, no need to stop ;-) I need all the education I can get if I am going to make a smart buy! Seriously though, how much weight does the Estart add? Considering that I won't be doing competition riding on the thing, does another 10-12 lbs really make that big of a difference?! Remember, I will be coming from a 600lb pig and anything sub 400lbs will feel like a feather to me!

Adios,
About 10-15 lbs, depending on the bike. My friend Dan and I swapped bikes on several occasions, he had an XR600 and of course I had a very stripped down XR650L, and other than our individual ergo set-up and slight power differences, there was very little difference. That extra weight is carried pretty low and centered (front to rear). Other than a couple of 2-smoke MX bikes, I've never ridden a sub 300 bike in the woods, but I could man-handle that L much better than the 230lbs MX bikes I've ridden, I just found ways to use the weight and torque to my advantage. Don't get me wrong though, it is a work out! What ever you get, you just have to learn the bike. The bigger issue between a kick an e-start is the stuff that does or doesn't come with it. A bike with an e-start is probably a factory DS, so it has much more hardware and a steel fuel tank and other features to make it more practical for street. That's the highly placed weight that you have to find ways to shed. As for e-start leaving you stranded; I've always been concerned about that too, but in the 11k mi that I put on the 'L I never had a problem. Just replace it at the end of it's expected life and keep the bike tuned (starting easily) and there shouldn't be an issue.

If Scott Summers ruled the GNCC on an XR600 for so long, there's no reason you can't play on a e-start 400...

[WoodButcher]

For instance, the DRZ 400E is 265 lbs dry and the 400s is 290 lbs. The difference between the steel and plastic tanks on these two is actually only a couple of ounces. Both are e-start, neither have a kick. They have the same battery. S adds signals, speedo with trip computer, rubber inserts on pegs, chain guard, passenger pegs, beefier subframe, and really big rear light assembly. The kick only model hasn't been made for a few years, but it comes in at 249 lbs dry. Oh yeah, the kick and the E have a Kehin carb and the S has a Mikuni CV. Emissions issue. Kehin is a much better performer.

So, like you were told, about 15 pounds. The starter is low on the engine, but the battery is up on the rear side opposite the exhaust.

If you just wanted a dirt bike to get to close riding areas, then I'd go with a good dirt bike and dual sport it (meet the minimal legal reqs). Something with at least 400cc's. If you want to do some touring on it, then I'd be tempted by something that has full signals and can carry gear easier. Not to beat the DRZ so much, but it is what I know best. You don't want to plan on putting much weight on the rear fender of the E model because there is no support there.

We have got to hook up sometime for some dirt riding. I've got a friend with an xr400 that he is happy to let people test ride and you are welcome to try my DRZ and CRF230. I'm not going to reccomend the CRF230 to you, but it is a nice contrast in weight.

[gotdurt]

They have the same battery. S adds signals, speedo with trip computer, rubber inserts on pegs, chain guard, passenger pegs, beefier subframe, and really big rear light assembly.
Not to mention the beefy brackets and hardware that hold all this stuff. This is all the junk you'd have to shed. But, some of it you'll have to replace with lighter stuff; ie headlight, tank, speedo (if you want it) etc, So you end up spending as much as you would have for a DS kit for a enduro bike.

Wish you could have felt the weight of the boxes of stuff I took of the XR and NX, about 30 lbs for the XR and 35 for the NX.

So, like you were told, about 15 pounds. The starter is low on the engine, but the battery is up on the rear side opposite the exhaust.
Same with the XRL, but you can get a kit for the 'L that eliminates/moves all that suff, and replaces the battery with a smaller one that packs enough punch to start it, as long as you don't have to crank for long. I would imagine there is something similar for the DR. Again, more money if you think it's necessary.

If you just wanted a dirt bike to get to close riding areas, then I'd go with a good dirt bike and dual sport it (meet the minimal legal reqs). Something with at least 400cc's.
Agreed!

If you want to do some touring on it, then I'd be tempted by something that has full signals and can carry gear easier. Not to beat the DRZ so much, but it is what I know best. You don't want to plan on putting much weight on the rear fender of the E model because there is no support there.
I learned this the hard way (see my Baja report)! I welded gussets to the subframe of my XRL for reinforcement. Of course, it helps not to abuse the bike with 75 lbs of gear sitting on the fender. :roll:

[Hood Ornament]

What I want is a bike that is trail worthy and can be ridden on the street. It does not have to be the ultimate trail bike, just something to play on. I don't plan on doing any racing. Nor do I plan on doing any monster tours on it. It would be nice if it were something I could trailer up to Arkansas and then spend the weekend riding offroad with the possibilty of camping a nite or two. The issues of carrying luggage could be a problem with anything short of a 650. But the majority of the use of the bike would be riding from my house down to the trailheads and spending an evening or morning putting around in the woods. The longer excursions would be the exception. For serious stuff, I would still be using the pack mule :-P

Adios,

This is exactly the reason I bought my DRZ. One thing to consider if you plan on getting something like that YZF is maintenance. Rebuilds and valve maintenance are much more frequent on those then on the DRZ/XR type bikes.

[Hoop]

You know, if you're going to ride it on the highway some/any, you might want a 600 or 650 cc bike, especially if you're not bothered by the weight. Just depends on what you want to do. Best advice, like someone else said, is to see if you can get some test rides in on a few bikes, especially if you can arrange it on the terrain you're interested in riding.

[Tx Rider]

What's the max you want to spend?

You might also look in the papers, you can get some good deals over ebay auctions and bike specific places sometimes on dirt bikes.

Myself I don't think I would be happy with less that 600 for camping trips or any highway use. Even if they do require more manhandling in tight woods.

[Bagwell]

What I want is a bike that is trail worthy and can be ridden on the street. It does not have to be the ultimate trail bike, just something to play on. I don't plan on doing any racing. Nor do I plan on doing any monster tours on it. It would be nice if it were something I could trailer up to Arkansas and then spend the weekend riding offroad with the possibilty of camping a nite or two. The issues of carrying luggage could be a problem with anything short of a 650. But the majority of the use of the bike would be riding from my house down to the trailheads and spending an evening or morning putting around in the woods. The longer excursions would be the exception. For serious stuff, I would still be using the pack mule :-P

Adios,

This is exactly the reason I bought my DRZ. One thing to consider if you plan on getting something like that YZF is maintenance. Rebuilds and valve maintenance are much more frequent on those then on the DRZ/XR type bikes.

Hmmmmm, are you sure about that? I own a WR400 and have quite a few friends that do as well, and there have been no issues with valve train or rebuilding any top end on them. The motors are very bullet proof and require much less maintenance than most people realize. I know I have heard of some having to do valve train work, but not very much. I have not read Thumpertalk lately, but they are usually an good indication of some problems that people run across.

Vaughn

[WoodButcher]

Hmmmmm, are you sure about that? I own a WR400 and have quite a few friends that do as well, and there have been no issues with valve train or rebuilding any top end on them. The motors are very bullet proof and require much less maintenance than most people realize. I know I have heard of some having to do valve train work, but not very much. I have not read Thumpertalk lately, but they are usually an good indication of some problems that people run across.

Vaughn

I agree. I haven't heard of problems with the titanium valves on the WR/YZ's. It's been the new CRF450's and 250's that seem to wear them out fast. Specially if you rev them like a two stroke.

[Hood Ornament]

I'm not talking about PROBLEMS here. I'm talking recommended maintenance intervals by the manufacturer. The 4 stroke MX bikes top end intervals are typically about twice as long as a 2 stroke. My KX 250 is supposed to get a top end job every 10 hours. Of course, the 4 strokes cost a lot more to do a top end then a 2 stroke.

I know you're supposed to do a top end on a WR 450 every 30 hours, cause a buddy of mine has one. That's not bad but still a far cry from the intervals for the older gen enduro bikes. Oh yeah, he has to check the valves every 8 hours. Now granted, you don't have to follow the manufacturers recommendations. I imagine most people don't. **** I probably put 60 hours on my KX before doing the top end. It also cost me more to do the top end cause I damaged the power valve by going so long.

DRZ's/XR's don't have those kind of maintenance requirements. They're more in line with street bikes in that aspect. The sacrifice you make with these bikes is obviously less HP and a little more weight. To me the trade off is acceptable.

[WoodButcher]

I understand. My DRZ is something like 600 mile valve check, then every 12K check again. Many that I know check every 6K and mine is due based on that.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Hope nobody minds reviving this topic...

I wanted to check out some sources & prices on the Baja kits to legalize a dirtbike. For a benchmark I was comparing some of the 250'ish dirtbikes and dualsports, Honda CR230F, Yamaha TTR230, Yamaha XT225 and Kawasaki KLR250.

Published dry weights one all of them are pretty close, except the KLR is published as being the heaviest of the bunch. Still, they're all light enough for mild trail duty.

MSRP's are obviously higher on the factory DS bikes, but what I'm wondering is, if I were to start with a dirtbike and add a Baja kit, how much is that going to close the gap between dirt and DS prices? If I go with a new bike, am I better off with a factory DS?

My other option is a guy I met who is trying to sell an XR250R that would make a good conversion candidate, especially with a 4 gallon aftermarket tank available. The only problem is that it's kickstart only at this point, and electric start after a long hot day sounds real nice.

[Tx Rider]

Kickstart on a 250 I'd not worry about, kickstart on a 650 can suck the marrow out of ya on a hot day. :)

For me the 250-400 class are woods bikes, jumping bikes, have fun and trailer it where your riding bikes.

600 and up is a ride it where your going bike, and carry gear if ya want to bike.

I go with KTM as their 600+ bikes are the most woods and harsh/technical trail ready of the 600-650 class, and you can get hard or soft bags for em. The only trade off is that the lighter ones like my SXC don't hold a lot of oil and you need to change it and check valves every 3000 miles. I don't know if a KLR has less maintenance, but it's not so hard on a KTM as the valves are screw adjustments and fairly easy to do.

If I wasn't going to ride any tiht single track trails I'd go with a KLR for price, huge aftermarket farkel availability etc. and better touring manners, or a BMW 650 if you have the cash.

If I was to trailer everywhere, I'd go for a lighter 250-450 class bike, but be careful as some of the hot newer smaller 4 strokes are really extreme on the maintenance schedules requiring oil and valve checks and even top end rebuilds in very short order.

Back to legalizing, I think it's a wash. You can probably get one done up for less then the cost difference from a factory DS, but not enough to make it the decision point. There will be other differences of more importance.

[WoodButcher]

Hope nobody minds reviving this topic...

I wanted to check out some sources & prices on the Baja kits to legalize a dirtbike. For a benchmark I was comparing some of the 250'ish dirtbikes and dualsports, Honda CR230F, Yamaha TTR230, Yamaha XT225 and Kawasaki KLR250.

Published dry weights one all of them are pretty close, except the KLR is published as being the heaviest of the bunch. Still, they're all light enough for mild trail duty.

MSRP's are obviously higher on the factory DS bikes, but what I'm wondering is, if I were to start with a dirtbike and add a Baja kit, how much is that going to close the gap between dirt and DS prices? If I go with a new bike, am I better off with a factory DS?

My other option is a guy I met who is trying to sell an XR250R that would make a good conversion candidate, especially with a 4 gallon aftermarket tank available. The only problem is that it's kickstart only at this point, and electric start after a long hot day sounds real nice.

Okay, I'll try and be organized, but this may end up being a brain dump. If you are planning on a dual sport kit that has signals, plan on spending a lot more money for it. Next, a bike that has a battery and e-start will usually have a more robust charging system and will save you the cost of a stator rewind to get more output. A factory dual sport will have turn signals on it, if you want to do a apples to apples comparison.

Next thing to consider is the steps in converting a dirt over to dual sport. I'm in the middle of doing a crf230 and made two mistakes. One is that I didn't get a TX Form 130-u signed by the previous owner when he sold me the bike. Typically they aren't done for offroad only registrations, but I was trying to change the title at the same time as conversion to street and was told I had to have one. Next problem I ran into was that I was/am going to have to pay sales tax on the bike. Wouldn't have had to do that if I had done the title change while it was an offroad bike when I bought it a while back. So, that also cost me some money.

So, worst case will be something like $400 for dual sport kit, $100 stator rewind, and $150 sales tax (5% is what DMV was figuring mine at). No labor, assuming you do it yourself. Then, maybe DOT knobbies if you want to be totally legal, another $110. And a mirror. Some kits include a horn though. Rounding up for sundries, about $800. Plus the fun of chasing the paperwork.

Best case, $230 for minimal kit (hi/lo headlight, tail/brake light, mirror, horn), take time and do title to avoid tax, find shop that doesn't check for DOT knobbies. Similar labor time, then you are done.

Don't forget, buying it from a dealer means, tax, title and other fees.

I think a lot comes done to the type of riding. If you looking for a more serious offroad machine, get a dirt bike and go minimal on the conversion. If you are going to do more roads (dirt and paved) where you need to be legal, but still want to ride trails then go factory. Irondawg and I both ride factory DS bikes and sometimes hard. The penalty is the occasional broken turn signal. More occasional for Irondawg than me. Well, lately that is...I've only broken one this year.

All of the bikes you are talking about are lighter than his DR350 or my DRZ400S, so they will be fine in the woods. My son's CRF230F could use one more tooth on the front sprocket for the road though. It winds out at 60mph with the stock setup.

[Hoop]

In mosts cases, if you really want to ride the bike in the dirt (on trails) at any reasonable speed, you'll be happier with the non-street legal version. It varies, but you always get a plastic tank instead of steel, you usually get a better carb, better suspension, better stock tires, etc. If you have a title, it's really not a big deal to put on a Baja kit and file the paperwork to get a license plate. If you don't have a title, it can be a major pain.

If you just want to ride dirt roads, then you can make it easier on yourself and buy one that's already legal.

[Hood Ornament]

Hope nobody minds reviving this topic...

I wanted to check out some sources & prices on the Baja kits to legalize a dirtbike. For a benchmark I was comparing some of the 250'ish dirtbikes and dualsports, Honda CR230F, Yamaha TTR230, Yamaha XT225 and Kawasaki KLR250.

Published dry weights one all of them are pretty close, except the KLR is published as being the heaviest of the bunch. Still, they're all light enough for mild trail duty.

MSRP's are obviously higher on the factory DS bikes, but what I'm wondering is, if I were to start with a dirtbike and add a Baja kit, how much is that going to close the gap between dirt and DS prices? If I go with a new bike, am I better off with a factory DS?

One reason the KLR is heavier then the other bikes you mentioned is because it's already street legal. Complete DS kits which include horn, head lights, tail light, and turn signals along with the controls can be around $350-$400. You can shop around and buy just the bare essentials for about half that. You don't have to have turn signals to make a bike street legal in TX. The conversion method is probably the cheaper route, and like Hoop mentioned, you usually get a better componants. Keep in mind that dual sport bikess are a compromise. They tend to sacrifice some dirt capability to make the bike more compliant on the street. Of course, going the dirt bike conversion route will sacrifice streetability. You have to decide what you are more willing to sacrifice.

[irondawg]

Lot's of good info here. I'll add my .02. The bikes you've mentioned except for the KLR are considered playbikes, so what you're looking at is a bike that has compromises to components, mostly suspension, intake and such. However, they have kick and electric starters so you won't have to worry about rewinding stators or adding a battery.

I wouldn't worry too much about bike weight since they all are close, but about how much time/money you'll spend doing a conversion and then setting the bike up. But you first have to ask yourself what kind of riding will you'll be doing and can you live with the bikes compromises. If your doing just mild trail riding the CR230F or TTR230 would be excellent mounts. I've been with WoodButcher when he was on the CR230F and that bike can haul butt thru trails. I'm sure the TTR would be the same.

The XT and KLR are, to me, not in the same class. They are more street oriented and need lots of work to make them better trail bikes...mostly uncorking the engine and suspension work but that can get costly quick...trust me. I'm doing that on my DR now. Another note, the more you make a bike dirt worthy, the more you'll find problem areas. For me, as WB stated, I've lost two rear blinkers...not to crashes but to vibration. I removed my rear fender subframe and stiffened up the suspension, now my blinkers are vibrating off when I ride on pavement.

So, my recommendation would be to go with the CR or TTR and then legalize it. You'll have a bike built for dirt with the better components.

[dan-o]

My son's TTR 225 was an easy swap. It already has DOT approved Pirelli MT21's, the stator doesn't need upgrade/rewind. The Baja Designs kit was about $450 (check ebay for about $100 cheaper) and was a super easy install. The only issue was the electric speedo that was offered wouldn't work without mods. I ended up using an XT225 speedo drive and cable along with an analogue speedo. The kit's are well designed and fit and finish is good. Controls are a little awkward but that's ok with me.
The TTR225 was $2800, new. The XT225 was about $4000.

[Tx Rider]

All this in the end is why I went KTM LC4 625 and 620.

They have excellent suspension components for offroad, they have all the street legal gear with the toughest and lightest weight OEM components (you can get lighter exhaust etc. but it's titanium) and they are large enough for street use but light and well suspended enough for any terrain any bike can traverse.

The only compromises are for long distance road travel and to an extent the price, and I can live with that. Mainly vibration and small oil sump. The cost is largely offset, because by the time you fix up the suspension, springs, weight etc. to that standard you could have just bought a KTM.

Problem is for 2005 they have stopped importing 625cc and 640cc DS bikes except for a very few 640 adventures. The used market is cheaper anyway though and low mileage models are not rare.

It can't keep up with fast guys on small 4 stroke dirt bikes in the woods (or at least I can't, I've seen others do it though) but it can ride the same trails and have an easier time than the other big DS bikes with less weight, more power, and better suspension for jumps and rough terrain, and I can run the roads at 75+ all day if I have to and 70mph is not even a sweat. In open dirt roads and two track it has little equal.

It's all in where you want to compromise.

[irondawg]

Dyan Sport is right. I think if I had to do it all over again, I would have went with a pure dirt/trail bike like a XR400 or KTM450/525. I'm lusting over the KTM 525 Desert with a Baja Kit. It's light weight and will run 75+ all day. The Desert comes with a bigger tank, wider 4,5,6 speeds, 'leccy start and stator to handle the Baja Kit.

Only problem is the bike costs more than twice what I paid for my DR including recent mods. And then I'd still need to pop $500 or so for the Baja kit and speedo. I don't think I'll ever get the DR close to the 525 but with a little more coin, It'll be close enough for me.

Compromise sucks... :roll:

[Tx Rider]

Yeah I'm going to really really like this '04 625sxc. It seems better in tight single track than my old KTM, more stable on the highway and with electric start + kick start and the aftermarket I think I'll be riding it for a long long time.

It's probably not the best first dirt bike what with weight and seat height, but the '03 and '04 625 sxc's seem to be going at under value right now.

[Tourmeister]

Dyna, What have the 03's and 04's been going for? Was your new KTM street legal or did you have to get all that done yourself after getting it.

Adios,

[BBBH]

Ah!!! The KTM's!!! I had an '01 400 EXC with an E-Line Kit and full street regs in NJ. E-Line or Baja do a nice job. Transferred it all to TX when I moved here. Both my cousins back east have the 620 LC4. Great bikes. I'm on the 250 EXC RFS now just for trail duty. I really liked the 400 for a variety if riding, trial, multi day dual sport rides, around town riding etc. While not a highway runner it was great for poking out of the woods to the nearest gas station for a fill up. I think the 250 does not have enough power to do a dual sport conversion so it will stay as is. Plans are on the back burner to do another KTM dual sport sometime on the future. I'll probably do a 525 EXC this time.

Question: Does anyone know about International Motorcycle Brokers Inc. They are out of BC. Take a peek
http://www.motorcycle-brokers.com/ I have heard some good stories about these guys. They also supply all the required paperwork to get the bike registered in the states. Check out the KTM Factory Dual Sports.
These are what is available to the rest of the world. Cool stuff indeed!!!
Can't decide on a new LC4 enduro or the more nimble 525 EXC dual sport. Now if I can just find the money to pay for it all......

[Tx Rider]

Dyna, What have the 03's and 04's been going for? Was your new KTM street legal or did you have to get all that done yourself after getting it.

Adios,

I believe the blue book on the sxc is about $5200

There's an '04 just like mine over on ktm talk, already DS'ed and plated for $4750 in Calfornia, I have feeling he'll take a bit less if he still has it. It's been for sale since March 16th and the guy has already moved to the east coast I believe. There' a second guy with a '03 for 4k in WV in the same thread.

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=100974&hl=sxc&st=15

There's an 04 with apparently no reserve with 4 days left on ebay, bid is $1050 so far.

One of my employees just got an '04 625sxc for $3100 on ebay, but it's a theft recovery write off so they salvage titled it, he'll have to spend a couple hundred on lights and switches. I checked it out today and it's pretty good deal, a little rashed but any dirt bike will be anyway.

I'll have $5500 in mine or more, but I went farther in the farkle dept with all new plastics and custom graphics etc. plus euro spec factory DS parts including new dash extra idiot lights etc..

Or you can get an older one, anything past '97 when they added electric starts, and turn it into about any other model over time as the frame hasn't changed much at all and the interchange of parts is as flexible as harleys.

For a bike that's best in class dual sport going for $500 or more under book looks like a good deal to me, especially when there may not be any more for a while. I see the older 640's going higher than that on ebay all the time.

There's actually a thread on ktmtalk about why they aren't fetching more and guys selling them can't get book value.

[kadams]

Speaking of this subject, has anyone heard anything that if an off road use bike was originally bought from the dealer using an Ag exemption, the bike's title can never be converted to highway use?

[2bd1]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that from the factory dual sports typically have cush drive rear wheels where as off-road only models do not. The reason that is done is that pavement hooks up better than dirt and the constant on/off of the throttle really hammers the drive line. If you convert an off-road only bike to street use, be mindful of that distinction when street riding it as you will have shorter drive line component life. Also, generally speaking the manufacturers off road (trail bike) models make better candidates for dual sport conversions than their pure MX models because they have wider and/or higher ratio gear boxes which make them a bit more civil on the highway. Disclaimer: My experience is with converting several Honda XRs and Yamaha WRs and YZs to street legal use (dual sport) and may not apply to other manufacturers models.

[irondawg]

Not all pure D/S bikes have cush drives...like XTs, DRs and I'm not sure if XR-Ls have cush drives either. I put over 7000 miles on my modded DR with no driveline problems. Knobbies help to ease the grip and modern clutch baskets have little rubber bungs that absorb lash too.

However, you are right. The trick is to be easy on the throttle when riding on the street. Actually, I think full throttle take-offs are bad on any driveline over time.