RS Track Day - 5.25.2009 @TWS - FOLLOW UP

[ciaka]

It is great to see many from here choosing to participate. It will be great if you share your experiences from the day on this thread. It will help us improve anything that needs it. Thank you and have a great day.

[msnyder755]

It was a great day despite the fact that I had my head up you know where for most of the day. The first couple sessions went pretty good but then I don’t know if it was mental or the heat or what but I just couldn’t get my mojo working. I never got into a good groove and it shows on the videos I took. My lines were horrible and we won’t even talk about throttle control going through the chicane. I gave my assigned instructor a fit (forgot his name sorry..I should remember something like that but I am just drawing a blank right now) Poor guy kept telling me what to do and how to improve and I felt like I was doing it but after looking at my on bike videos there are no way. At one session during the end of the day he was following me and we pulled over to “chat” and again he was trying to reinforce the same things he had been saying and I responded “I thought I was” poor guy must have been frustrated with me because he just said harshly “Well your not”. I don’t say that in a negative way because he was right and after I hung my head in shame for a few seconds he said “Lets go again”. I sucked up what energy I had left, both mental and physical, and went around for another lap or so at which point he passed me and gave me the thumbs up. Admittedly, it did feel better and more in control once I got it but I think he was just showing some encouragement because he could tell I was way to frustrated at that point. During the last session my legs actually gave up and felt like jello to the point I couldn’t even really weight the pegs anymore so I ended the session early and started to pack up. Despite this being a really bad day for riding technique, besides my very first track day, it was extremely fun and I really did learn a lot. Probably the biggest thing I learned is how much mental process needs to be there when riding. I knew I wasn’t at my best right from the start and rather than just backing it down a notch I kept pushing and pushing and in reality that was the opposite to do because once I got frustrated with myself I just kept getting worse and worse as the day went on. Lesson learned in a big way guys! Thanks to all the Ridesmart folks and especially my instructor who endured with great patience with me all day. Hopefully at the next track day I attend I can have the same instructor and redeem myself…..

My overall thoughts concerning Ridesmart itself are these:

Positives:
The classroom talk was excellent! Thanks Guy! The bs was kept to a minimum and we got in talked about the lesson at hand and got out to meet with our individual instructors and still had time to socialize a little bit with our family and friends who showed up to watch.

The track never got bunched up. There were a ton of folks there and maybe I was just able to stay in a dead spot but I never had an issue with getting held up by slower riders. I got around everyone I needed to pretty easy and those pesky little liter bikes got around my poor little 600 pretty easy as well.

Negatives:
Registration area was way too small for the amount of folks in there at one time and then there was the confusion over which line was for what group. I offer the suggestion of maybe doing staggered registration for each group. Maybe like 600 to 620 level 1, 620 – 640 level 2, 640-700 level 3 and 4 then open registration for all afterwards.

Track control needs to keep those riding in different groups off the track during other group sessions. I saw numerous level 2 riders in the level 1 session and in fact one level 2 guy tried to pass me on the inside going into turn 4 and ran me into the grass on exit. Luckily it was towards the end of the day and the ground had dried from the rain the night before and I was able to get her slowed down and back on track without incident. I had a chat with that rider after the session and all is good but they put those little stickers on the front of the bike for a reason.

Make sure there are enough chairs in the classroom for all the PAID customers. Nothing like having to stand for 20 minutes after riding a session I tell you what.

All in all it was good day and I had lots of fun so thanks to the entire Ridesmart staff but especially my instructor!

[liltxfreebird]

I have to say that I have gained my mojo back after my now third track day since my awesome dismount at the infamous turn 10. I thought once all of the squids settled in everything was ok... I did have one concern that I spoke to Guy about and even though I am still none too sure about it, if it is standard practice I have to get a pair and deal with it, is the passing on either side in turn 10... I can't quite figure out how to navigate or set up for 11 when I have bikes passing on my inside... I am thinking that we are going to cross lines and IF we are both on separate lines (I don't know their and they may know mine) what do I do... I get the idea that it is their job to do a clean pass however anyone who has been out there with the squids on a testosterone high knows this is not always the case...and if I am gunna wad the bike I would rather it be because of my own mistake...just my opinion... even thought this was my worry for most of the day I did maintain predictable lines and gained a lot of ground in the fight to get my confidence back... heck I even had a corner worker compliment me on my ability to maintain my lines and positioning while others sped past me.. He said that I continued to work on practicing what I came there to practice and let the rest of the world go by without a bother...funny he knew I was practicing even thought I had never met or spoken to the guy.. He also informed me that I would never be able to make good corners because I was American so I asked him what do I have to be to make great corners and he said European :lol2:... despite the apparent handicap of my heritage I will endeavor to work on my corners,,,lol,,he was a very nice guy with a great since of humor and I appreciated his nice compliments on my riding...I know that once I find my feet again and get some wind in my sails that I may actually pass someone ( some day) still I have to watch out for those few riders out there who need to focus on riding with their head and not their ego... I did get picked up by many of the instructors while out on the track and followed them around.. always a thumbs up and off they go so I think that was a good sign...my corner monster was in 4 this time and did not make a successful corner in my opinion until my last session and that was a great place to stop and end the day!!!

All in all it was a rocking day and I can't wait till Saturday to try my first day at Cresson!!!


(Start dramatic theme music)

That’s me Tracy slaying the demons and corner monsters one track day at a time :zen:

[Loyd]

Requested written input:

-Please make you individual instructors more readily INDIVIDUALLY indentifiable.(Paint numbers or different color dots on their jersyes, it's not hard to find a workable solution.) If I hear one more time from Dave the whine about 'identify the person(s)' or hush and go away I will take my business elsewhere. Make your instructors readily identifiable or accept what compliments/critcisms I can give with the info. I can present at the time, when prompted. The same would likely hold true with riders. One number plate on the front of a bike is not helpful at all for identifying an unsafe rider, or bike, from the side or rear.;-)

-In class and at riders meeting I hear the speech 'We, at RideSmart, are aimed at making you better riders on the street...etc,etc.'. Later that day, when 'attempting' to have a polite discussion with Dave, I hear from Dave: '..And as far as the instructors go, I hear from Ty repeatedly, that he has to re-teach race lines to students coming from the lower level groups to his class'...and a few other words I won't repeat. I would argue that basic and intermediate instruction is what your presenting Ridesmart to be about for safer streetriding habits. Lower level instructors have little business attempting to teach much about 'racetrack' rider skills. That's why folks pay the extra fee to hear the schpeel from Ty himself. Dave's choice to use loud expletives, and general tone towards the end of our conversation, caused me to walk away before I reciprocated in kind. My advice to Dave is to enroll and become familiar with what he's preaching. Some firsthand knowledge would go far in him ironing out many inconsistencies in his classroom 'lesson plans'..or lack of.

Don't get me wrong, I genuinely enjoy my time with most of the instructors. If you could manage it without Managements 'moodiness' the overall experience would be more fun.

Positives:

-Started in a timely manner. (This is something I encounter rarely in your events and greatly appreciate it when it happens.)

-Trackstaff was very efficient. There were LOTS of wrecks. Still managed a fair amount of tracktime due to the trackstaff being so focused.

-A/C was working!

-Lvl 2 instructors managed to cover not only printed material, but also find time to review video footage. There is always something a little different to be gleaned each time I hear Drik's group speak.

Negatives:

-Lack of enforcement. Again, if your going to preach 'learning environment', practice it. Last session of the day I got stuffed by an instructor who then almost bit it hard leaving turn 4 becuase he was attempting a 'racepass' to get by and couldn't maintain. I spent the remainder of that session playing 'show him a wheel', to no avail. I understand it's an open group. I passed a few myself, I got passed ALOT. Some passes were safe, some kinda iffy. I have to take issue when somenoe marked as an instructor, who should be acting accordingly whilst identified as an instructor, rides like atypical squid. I take issue with being advertised a learning environment and not receiving what I paid for.

The sheer number of crashes, not to mention the stunt antics, should speak for themselves as to the the lack of structure. Reason I left 4 to go back to 2 was a safer riding environment believe it or not. Simply put, police ALL your groups or advertise a free-for-all environment on the brochure.

- Wife comes up and asks me, just after lunch, why it's ok for instructors to lead other students around her both inside and outside of turns...I didn't quite believe her until I trudged out to watch her make a couple laps around turn 10 and see it for myself. Way I see it, lvl1 says 'no inside passing'...If any rider is so slow they impede track progression to warrant such passing ANYONE inside, that impeding rider should be asked to leave until such time as they can progress at a slightly faster pace. Not having heard any such thing about the Mrs. lack of speedability, I fault Ridesmart instruction.

-Attended an event a while where a couple was told 'non-leather' suits would not be allowed. Only to watch them rent suits. Saw a fellow exiting the track Monday with a two-piece 'non-leather' suit...not fastened together. Not sure how that got past Tech/marshall.


I will also state that I hate airing stuff like this in an open forum. It gives too much away for room for interpretation. It also looks like your just harping. I posted this here as requested by Ridesmart mgmnt. Hopefully it'll simply come across as the critque you folk asked for.

[ciaka]

Loyd, I am passing your comments on to management. I was not there and do not know which instructors worked in level 1.
Passing rules for level 1 are very clear and are for both riders and instructors. I will make sure this is very sternly addressed to all instructors for each level.
Same goes for level 2. Passing rules are clear and everyone including instructors is expected to follow them.

As for level 4, this is an open group, one in which racers practice for races, and ty howard class participates in too. In this session, there are no passing rules. This is clearly advertised, and it has to be as such, since racers who pay to practice often treat these sessions as a simulated race, so they can try to better themselves for the real thing. For that reason, and several others, level 4 is a place only for those who feel confident in their advanced riding abilities, and have no reservations with being passed at extremely close proximity, on either side (in or out) in any turn.
Having said that, what every rider that registers for any school (not just RS), is to HONESTLY evaluate their skills. Saying that one's lap time around TWS is 1:55 and that automatically qualifies them for lelel 4 would be a lie.
One who runs 1:55 at TWS has to be able to do this comfortably, without riding on the bleeding edge of his/her capability.
So times themselves do not represent a good qualification for a level. Confidence, ability to ride proper and consistent lines, and not riding at the utmost edge of ones capability to reach a particular time, all take a part in a decision regarding which level to ride in.
I hear you about the things you stated, and thank you very much for bringing this up to me. I will be meeting Dave and other RS staff on Thursday and will make sure to discuss and set my expectations of all riders, not just those who pay.

If you have additional comments feel free to contact me. I will be glad to take any other input you have. Thanks and talk to you soon.

[Loyd]

As for level 4, this is an open group, one in which racers practice for races, and ty howard class participates in too. In this session, there are no passing rules. This is clearly advertised, and it has to be as such, since racers who pay to practice often treat these sessions as a simulated race, so they can try to better themselves for the real thing.

Do be sure and remind Dave of this very statement you just made the next time he mentions "this is not a race" during riders meeting opening remarks.

I understand your point. I am confident of my abilities, such as they are. I have raced and am quite comfy being passed in lvl4 in close proximity. I do take issue when any rider, one marked as instructor esp., jeapordizes any other rider willingly and claims "Hey, it's the open group". Ask Dave about the high amount of crashes. I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to credit some at least to riders not riding within their skillsets...Even an open class can do with a minute amount of supervision. Ty surely wouldn't appreciate other instructors purposely stuffing his students out trying to apply what Ty is trying impart would he? If Ridesmart chooses to condone this "anything goes stance", cool by me. It's your event, your rules. I will say your post here conflicts with remarks made to the contrary. For instance: Why would the track marshall fuss at someone pulling the wheel up down the straits? If not for safety of the others in the open group? I understand the "agree to disagree" stance I'm likely to be given on this topic..but you did ask for feedback. Don't ask for an opinion simply to refute it man...bad juju. Perhaps Dave need only be a bit more clear in his opening remarks. I have apparently been operating with the mistaken impression that race passes were frowned upon....When you take the 'line" away from the person your passing... IE: block passing is unecessary as there are no trophies handed out today...Doesn't this sound like something I would've heard before turned loose for first session? ;-)

My vote goes with my $$ to another vendor, or not, who can reasonably promise a safe venue in which to hone my skillset. I must not have sufficiently explained myself before...for that I apologize. At the end of the day I just chalked it up to a holiday event having a larger than normal attendance of squids. You ask for suggestions to improve...you got one or two from me. Apparently this one struck a nerve. :trust:

We'll see you folks at the MSR-C event. Hopefully it'll run better.

[ciaka]

Loyd, trust me, you have not struck any nerve. It is very hard for one to 'strike a nerve' with me. Your comments came very far from that line, trust me on that.
I really think that my attempt at simply shedding light on some situations and decisions was misinterpreted on your part.

I really appreciate your input and trust me when I say it will be discussed.










...You ask for suggestions to improve...you got one or two from me. Apparently this one struck a nerve. :trust:

We'll see you folks at the MSR-C event. Hopefully it'll run better.

[Loyd]

Okiedoke. Apologies for the misinterpretation. :mrgreen:

[GrayJ]

Well on the contrary I had an awesome time at TWS! Apart from getting bunched up throughout the track, which was easily cured by going down hot pit and waiting a few seconds, and then catching back up to the group again by the end of the next lap! I got taken on the inside once but my line went bad and I ended up being wide and he passed VERY clean and gave me a thumbs up on the way by, as what I took to be an "I'm sorry" I was also passed in pretty close proximity down the back straight several times, but nothing that made me feel real uncomfortable

On my form, at the beginning of the day I did check the box for being interested in racing, and getting my license. So I do appreciate them showing me the racing line and telling me just what I need to do to get around the track fast and safely and not just giving me pointers on how to apply it in day to day riding. Next time I will ask to be in Dirk's class for sure to get more pointers on the faster lines and being that my instructor seemed to have dissapeared after lunch haha.

More and more I'm thinking this bike may end up as a track hoe, as this stuff is to much fun! Had a great time hanging out with the RS crew and cant wait for TWS again on the 20th or 21st whichever it is. I have a credit for the other org so I will be there for both! :rider: