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Performance/Sport Riding your Bandit

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PhilS

PhilS

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Hi all:

I wanted to throw this out to specifically the Bandit group as I own one as opposed to a GSXR, CBR, or ZX for example. I am really curious about the Bandit's capabilities - which I am sure are volumes more than I trust in the bike for the moment.

I am looking to improve my aggressive riding skills and was wondering what you all have done with or are currently doing with your Bandit.

When out on the twisties on public roads, I feel a lot more confident on right turns but a bit tense on left turns. In left turns, I tend to slow up, brake, and get more nervous for some reason. I have never scraped the pegs on the roads (although once in a controlled parking lot practice session) and have never come close to getting the knee down.

I am starting to spend money on suspension and riding gear, and am looking forward to track days and/or schools to teach me more so I can really enjoy the aggressive back-road riding we all love.

So, from you guys.....out on the curves, you ever get the knees on the ground, pegs scraping, feel confident in left and right turns at speed, etc, etc. Also, what mods, if any, to the bike or your gear have you done to really get good at this style of Bandit riding.

Thanks - Phils (who hasn't crashed yet!!)
 
Your left/right bias is opposite the norm, but the bias is common enough. Any vision problems in your left eye?

As for the hyper-aggresive riding, what are you gonna do when you are pushing it to the edge of your skills and you round a corner to find some blue haired lady slowly backing into the road?
 
atonic said:
Your left/right bias is opposite the norm, but the bias is common enough. Any vision problems in your left eye?
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Yes - left eye is worse than right, but I wear glasses and all is corrected. I am still thinking the left hander crash I had 30 years ago is still with me somehow.

atonic said:
As for the hyper-aggresive riding, what are you gonna do when you are pushing it to the edge of your skills and you round a corner to find some blue haired lady slowly backing into the road?
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Agreed and the answer is obvious hopefully outside of practicing good braking and avoidance skills. But, if we never ride the bikes like they were designed on the street as opposed to a few times a year on the track (if that!), we might as well buy cruisers and ride for the scenery and not for the thrill. But, I hear what you're sayin'.
 
Good dual compound tires and a Holeshot fork brace will make you a lot happier in turns. I'm running Michelin Pilot Power 2 CT's. I'm lucky to have great riding spots in the hills east of San Diego. Try and pick a good road with safe left and right handers and practice. The more familiar you are with the road, the more you'll be able to push it. Lots of good books out there that may help you also.
 
Frito Bandito said:
Good dual compound tires and a Holeshot fork brace will make you a lot happier in turns.
Click to expand...

I am running Avon Storm ST's and am real happy. Tell me if you would what you realistically saw and felt different when you installed the HSFB and under what conditions you felt it? I am considering this $150 fix as well.
 
PhilS, you are probably way past my riding skills, but here is what helped me get over my physiological/skills barrier.

When I first got my motorcycle license there was motorcycle safety course - no internet forms, etc. I just picked up a bike as I needed cheep transportation and drove around a parking lot a few times, got my licence and drove off. For the first several years I was always nervous in corners - and it seemed unpredictable.

Once Someone enlightened me to counter steering and pushing through the corners that changed. Once I realized I didn't have to lean, I could get very predictable results with "push steering" (left or right corners).

I know from your previous posts that you are an experienced rider and you know this stuff better than me - but just letting you know what cured me of my issues - when I stopped trying to turn with my weight, and made myself just steer with the handlebars through the turn (keep the pressure constant in the turn) - corners became totally enjoyable. I could be doing it totally wrong, (and feel free to correct my technique) - but it has been working so far.

I can lean off the bike if I want - but knowing that the real control is in my hands is a real confidence boost.
 
I haven't scraped a peg but I ride the edge of the back tire until it squirms on a regular basis. The Bandit is labor intensive when riding aggressively that's where the mods come in. Stock, as mine is, It'll hang in the first three gears with any sport bike on a technical road. I've ran with the Luguna Seca crowd going up Hwy One with thumbs up from riders I've speed passed and sitting up with resignation from those who couldn't shake me. I remind myself to relax my shoulders and arms and move forward on the seat while counter steering and weight shifting without getting off the seat. On a few occassions I've gone into a corner too hot and resigned to the fact I was going to loose it ( funny how the mind works ). The muscle memory takes over and I've instinctively counter steered harder and shifted off the bike, pulling the bike down. With 22000 miles of mostly twisties on the bike, I'ts all about practice.

I'll always have a Bandit in the stable it's such a workhorse.
 
Solafide said:
Once Someone enlightened me to counter steering and pushing through the corners that changed. Once I realized I didn't have to lean, I could get very predictable results with "push steering" (left or right corners).

I know from your previous posts that you are an experienced rider and you know this stuff better than me - but just letting you know what cured me of my issues - when I stopped trying to turn with my weight, and made myself just steer with the handlebars through the turn (keep the pressure constant in the turn) - corners became totally enjoyable. I could be doing it totally wrong, (and feel free to correct my technique) - but it has been working so far.
Click to expand...

Pushing on the bars through the turns and pushing harder to turn harder is where my brain locks ups. Need more practice. Thanks for the advice.
 
DRW said:
On a few occassions I've gone into a corner too hot and resigned to the fact I was going to loose it ( funny how the mind works ). The muscle memory takes over and I've instinctively counter steered harder and shifted off the bike, pulling the bike down.
Click to expand...

You know what's probably my big issue, is the fact that I am somewhat terrified of crashing my bike and screwing it up!!!! I can ride my wife's little 250 Rebel (oh that's nice looking.....me at 270LBS and 6'4" on that dang Rebel), but I can throw it around like a cat!!! Wait, did I say cat throwing? PETA will be all over me........I hear they have a problem with killing flies as well.
 
I think you've already answered your own question. If you want to improve your riding skills spend some time on a track with a qualified riding instructor and practice a lot - preferably not on a public road!
 
Check into a track day at Mid Ohio. If they are anything like the track days here the first level will be geared towards control and gaining confidence in your bike's capabilities. Attending one after decades of riding taught me a lot about control that applies well to street situations.
 
At the moment, I am signed up for a beginner track day at Nelson Ridges in August adn will do it again (maybe beginner, maybe intermediate) in September, then the tracks days in Ohio pretty much shut down. That'll give me 2 events under my belt. I seem to have this fear that the bike will wash out from underneath me (low side) due to the tires simply sliding away from too much lean. I realize this probably wont happen until I am well on to the pegs, but my mind tells me otherwise, which is why I tend to keep the bike more vertical and run wide!!!!!:giveup:

Thanks for the advice........keep 'em posting.
 
PhilS said:
At the moment, I am signed up for a beginner track day at Nelson Ridges in August adn will do it again (maybe beginner, maybe intermediate) in September, then the tracks days in Ohio pretty much shut down. That'll give me 2 events under my belt. I seem to have this fear that the bike will wash out from underneath me (low side) due to the tires simply sliding away from too much lean. I realize this probably wont happen until I am well on to the pegs, but my mind tells me otherwise, which is why I tend to keep the bike more vertical and run wide!!!!!:giveup:

Thanks for the advice........keep 'em posting.
Click to expand...

Phil,

My .02 cents worth of advice is buy a 2nd hand SV650 and use it as your track bike. Ride the Bandit and enjoy with out the knee dragging peg scrapping on the street.

:rider:
 
Here is where the Internet can be a dangerous thing.... people like me posting like I know what I'm talking about, but I don't. Now, with that disclaimer out of the way ("I don't know what I'm talking about"), here goes:

Gadgets like a steering damper or fork brace are Band Aids that may address a symptom but not the problem. They may help if the rest of the package has been addressed first... that said,
Pay somebody to set your factory suspension up correctly. It cost me $60.00 to go to somebody and have him set my factory adjustments where they needed to be for my weight and the rough roads I like to ride on occasion; but with 14,000 miles on my rear shock I've now reached a point where I need to REPLACE my shock absorber (I weigh 215 pounds and ride very aggressively through lotsa twisties). A factory shock absorber will have it's best damping abilities for the first 8,000 miles, for the next 4,000 miles they slowly deteriorate. At 12,000 miles they won't get any worst.... so if you don't weigh too much and they still work for you, then they may be up to the task of merely 'working' but not as smoothly or effectively as designer-name after market pogos.

Riding techniques as taught by the pro's are as wide and varied as the pro's themselves. Some of the track schools out there instruct for racing on a closed course, others teach techniques more applicable to public roads with sand, traffic, and unexpected surprises.

There are techniques that teach counter-steering via one side of the handlebar while simultaneously pushing on the opposite foot peg with your foot. Weighting the foot pegs, steering with your knees via pressure on one side of the gas tank, leaning, sliding off the seat, where and how to look, "trail-braking", etc.
Bottom line, these techniques and others can not, SHOULD NOT be taught via a motorcycle message board by complete strangers who may or may not have been taught how to ride correctly themselves.

So when I add my two cents worth, keep in mind that I have never had any training, never read any books, and may not know what the heck I'm talking about! My "two cents worth" is as follows:
Grace, finesse, a dance, don't force things, be smooooth, look with your entire head in the direction you want your bike to go and keep it parallel to the horizon. Body english should be kept to a minimum, leave that for the professional racers pushing the performance envelope on a track. Counter steering should NEVER be achieved by 'pulling' one side of the handlebar, and counter-steering should never have to be muscled. Counter steering is a combination of proper shoulder placement, timing, and subtle pressure on the one side of the handlebar. Relax your arms and keep them bent, favor weight bias as close to over the front wheel as possible the more aggressive you ride.
NEVER set out solely for the goal to "hang off" or "get a knee down"..... unless or UNTIL you have been taught by the pro's how to ride correctly. And if you're riding so aggressively on the street as to "get a knee down", you're riding waaaaay too fast for the conditions, and it could be at the expense of an errant citizen/pedestrian or another rider from the opposite direction riding too fast for HIS conditions.....

Your objective, your goal, should be to ride safely with all the grace of a Gene Kelly or Micheal Jackson, to arrive home unscathed and ready to ride another day. OUR goal is to seek instruction from professional instructors who can coach us on techniques for either street riding or track racing..... and one should NOT confuse a public road with that of a clean and smooth track with no cross traffic.

Most importantly,
"Ride your own ride"
"Never ride faster than the conditions"
"Expect the unexpected"
Avoid "target fixation",
Apply steady pressure on your brake levers and don't stab at 'em, do all your braking BEFORE you initiate a turn.
And be careful taking advise from the likes of strangers via the Internet......
 
Well said. And good point about the adjustments available on the stock suspension.
 
Larry ( can't think of or spell or pronounce his last name ) was a safety instructor doing articles in Rider Mag till he was killed by a deer in West Texas. In one of his articles, he addressed this right vs left cornering. The majority of his students ( both experienced and not ) were more steady and sure on the right hand turns than the left. I forget the reasoning behind it but it was a good article.
I was amazed that I myself, was smoother on right hand turns than lefts. Often cutting my apex short and into the center line. This was a fun relation due to the fact that I did a little local road racing years back and a whole lot of flat tracking.
Once for a crowd pleaser , we ran 4 motos. 2 flat track and 2 motocross. Each race, going the opposite way. It was like a race on 4 different tracks but fun for most of us. Course, you always had the waaaa waaaasss. ;-) But we out voted them ha ha ha ha.
 
I used to have the left/right issue, favoring the left. I think it's from watching the Indy mile, or, 500 all of those years maybe :mrgreen:. Actually, for me, it was the rear brake. I like keeping in touch with the rear brake (and front) when cornering in case I need to scrub a little speed. And, I ride with the ball of my foot on the lowside peg. Can't do that and stay in touch with the rear brake going right. It was just more natural feeling for me with the rear brake on the high side. I've gotten past it now, but it took a while.

I'm no Kenny Roberts, but, I can get the bike over pretty well for my taste. As you already mentioned, it's all about practice, practice, practice. For me, it was finding my own limit and then pushing it a little more and a little more until it didn't feel so risky. I have a favorite roundabout in the area that has fresh pavement even if it's a little off-camber. But, I'll hit it just before sundown or early on a weekend morning when traffic is light and try to get several circles in a row before another car shows up. That way I can increase the lean very slowly with a little throttle and stretch my comfort level on the lean. I also have a favorite corner section that I run several times in a country circuit I ride. Prerun it so you know no gravel or debris has been kicked up. I watch my entering speed, and turning points. Then I just hit one mph or two faster each time. If I get uncomfortable, I hold my last speed for a few times, then try bumping it again. As you begin to trust yourself, the bike, and tires, it gets easier. Once I was able to run this pretty well, it made it a lot easier to do it on most other corners. Although I still find myself misjudging corners occasionally (usually erring on the slow side - just don't want to bust up me and the bike if I goof I guess).

One thing I look for for self preservation purposes is to find a practice corner with some run-off just in case. Hard to find in the Midwest with most having ditches, but occasionally there's one around.

Like a said, I'm no KR. I'm not talking need dragging on the street, but just about the to edge of the PR2s with just an occasional light touch on the peg.

I'd like to go run hard on a track day sometime to really be able to get a knee down. That would be fun. Just got 2 kids going to college and no funds for gear for a while. Someday. Dueling Bandits running Mid-Ohio :rider:.
 
Hey Fitty.....

Very good points and well appreciated. I am indeed going to the track days for my education and realistically need to back off of my street riding a bit as I've come too close to tossing the Bandit into the weeds only because of inexperience. Also agree on the set up issues. Once I had Rick at Cogent do my front forks, it all changed. Now, and especially after 10,000 miles, I realize how bad my rear shock sucks!

More on this later.............
 
+1 on correctly set-up suspension as it will make a massive difference to the bike.

Also, +1 on backing off on the streets. Too many other idiots out there to add yourself to the list.

Regular rider/driver training to hone the skills on a closed course is important. (And great fun. Remember the fun bit... :rider: )

I remember one thing I was taught when I started club racing in cars. Smooth first; then the speed will come.

This is true for bikes as well! (Probably even more so. In fact, definately even more so...).

I have issues when in right hand corners (we are on the left side of the road in OZ.. dunno if that makes any difference to the bias thing...), improving the suspension (front) has helped that but confidence in corners is something I am still working on.

Constantly Learning.

Keep the black, round rubber bits down.
 
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