Parade Laps - Careless Riding

[ciaka]

It has come to our attention that in the last few events, there has been quite a bit of careless riding on the part of some parade lap participants.
What I mean is that out of the last 3 events, two of them have resulted in someone getting off track and crashing their motorcycle.
This trend has become alarming for us, and we are going to be looking into ways to curbing this type of riding.

Parade laps were designed by people to get a taste of riding on the track. What we are noticing is plenty of people riding well above their riding limits, even at moderate pace.
We have observed people not paying attention to the track, concentrating on other riders, etc.
It is also becoming apparent that some try to intentionally put gaps between themselves and riders before them, only to try to 'catch up' in a turn.

These types of activities are not a very wise way to spend parade laps. Lack of knowledge of the track, curvature and flow of it, makes the ride tricky, and some choose not to ride at their own pace, but rather try to at least keep up with those in front of them.
Bad ideas. We have actually seen people passing others in parade laps.

There are no excuses for crashes during parade laps. Therefore, we are at the point where we have to investigate these behaviors, and we will take appropriate action. All options are on the table, including canceling parade laps.

I urge all of you to spread the word to all who intend to participate in these parade laps. Bring appropriate gear (as specified in Parade laps thread), ride at YOUR OWN PACE, and above all - BE SAFE.
We would hate to take drastic actions, but we are not willing to accept crashing at parade laps as something that is expected.

Take care, stay safe, and remember, parade laps are for fun, not to show off or try to impress others. Please help us keep this event going in an organized, safe and fun manner.


RideSmart Staff.

[Tourmeister]

:tab How about a lead pace bike, with some instructors spread out throughout the group of bikes? I've seen that done with success at a few CMRA events where they had parade laps. Anyone acting like an idiot was asked to leave the track and possibly even the entire facility if the offense was bad enough.

[gixxerjasen]

Just curious, when the C group goes out, you assume they've never been on a track, let alone that track before. So the instructors go out in follow the leader fashion doing the deal where the person behind the instructor drops out to the back after a bit during the sighting laps.

Why would you treat the guys who your trying to give a taste of the track any different? Maybe instead of a parade lap, give a free sighting lap session at a good controlled pace. Might be safer and would give them a little extra track time to whet the appetite.

[Squeaky]

Well, I agree that the instructors should be maintaining the pace on the parade lap, but I also know that often times lunch/parade lap is the only time the instructors actually get a break in their day - so they stay off the track and use the time to just take a breather, get a bite to eat, cool off, etc.

Maybe the corner workers could mount-up and control it? :ponder:

[Moose]

Maybe the corner workers could mount-up and control it? :ponder:

Awesome - Squeeky could lead the parade lap...that'll keep everybody's speed down:rider:

feel free to delete

[Loyd]

Awesome - Squeeky could remove a few keys prior to leading the parade lap...that'll keep everybody's speed down:rider:

;-)

[ekms377]

NO matter what...you will always have a squid or 2 acting carelessly. Takes names and boot from event......maybe even future events.

I don't see this happening in the "round robin" laps, if it is...read above....but if RS is having parade laps just for fun......bag it.

[gixxerjasen]

Round Robin! Why for the life of me could I NOT remember that!?! I've done enough of them.

[Maverick]

Unless things have changed from when I was involved with CMRA, the parade lap was led by Walter's F350 at a controlled speed. Not sure how fast because the speedo was disconnected from the bike but I'm guessing 30 maybe?

Possibly a few non instructors, but trusted riders, interspersed throughout the group to manage as well. Someone falls back like they're going to hammer a turn and a couple just pull in front of them to monitor the speed. If they pass, off the grounds they go.

For me, the parade lap isn't about learning the track or even experincing the track, it's for gaining a different perspective than you have from the fence.

I would hate to see parade laps go away because of a few people that don't get the concept. IMHO it helps promote the sport while giving a small little taste. Sorta like drugs. there's the taste, come back if you want more. :rofl:

At any rate, not 2 cents worth but it's my opinion.

Maverick.

[ciaka]

no single solution here..we have a few ideas that we will be putting in. cancellation is the last step, we will work to see how this will change. Really, crashing at a parade lap should be embarrassing for any one.

Maybe we should take video of everyone before the laps. Anyone crashes, we post their photo up on a page of shame....
Seriously, we will be changing things. Hope those few that are causing most of the trouble take it seriously or this wonderful thing will be gone.

[TejasFJR]

I definately could see taking names so you know who the troublemakers are and can keep them from doing parade laps in the future. Personally, I hope they don't go away since both my girls are eager to get the chance to ride on the back one of these days.

[jredford]

no single solution here..we have a few ideas that we will be putting in. cancellation is the last step, we will work to see how this will change. Really, crashing at a parade lap should be embarrassing for any one.

Maybe we should take video of everyone before the laps. Anyone crashes, we post their photo up on a page of shame....
Seriously, we will be changing things. Hope those few that are causing most of the trouble take it seriously or this wonderful thing will be gone.

You could put their pics up like the Post Office. 10 Least Wanted.:giveup:

[poser]

Awesome - Squeeky could lead the parade lap...that'll keep everybody's speed down:rider:

feel free to delete

but they don't allow U-turns on the track

:duck:

[Moose]

but they don't allow U-turns on the track

:duck:


That's cold.....:rofl:

[gixxerjasen]

If Squeeky sees this thread now, I think we are going to be short a few members.

[cameron 996]

maybee take a 100-200 dollar deposit and if you crash you lose the money? i dont know but today there are way to many guys riding super sport race replicas as a first bike, and usually after 1 or 2 rides they think they can ride like rossi. if i was in charge i would probbally bag the whole parade lap thing because i see no way you can avoid idiots with no respect for anyone or anything.i cant really remember anything working out on the honor system.

[Loyd]

Alternatively,

If the chucklehead bites it on a parade lap at such low speeds, in a controlled environment, with better runoff than they'll ever encounter on the road(at most tracks)...aren't you sorta doing them a favor. You know, letting them learn a lesson in these conditions would seem infinitly better than turning that same rider lose on the streets. I know I have been feeding this track monkey on my back for over 7 years since my first cmra paradelap. :zen:

I understand the inconvenience any trackday provider experiences with delays for these crashes. Crashing on the street, instead of on your parade lap, removes the burden from trackday group...but is it worth the cost? In either/both safety and loss of a possible new track addict without parade lap(bait).

[Ghost Rider]

maybee take a 100-200 dollar deposit and if you crash you lose the money? i dont know but today there are way to many guys riding super sport race replicas as a first bike, and usually after 1 or 2 rides they think they can ride like rossi. if i was in charge i would probbally bag the whole parade lap thing because i see no way you can avoid idiots with no respect for anyone or anything.i cant really remember anything working out on the honor system.

Actually, I ride like Rossi. Just a whole lot slower. :lol2: I keep working at the fundamentals, and attending various training events in preparation for the track. However, even going to the track is ultimately intended to make me a better rider on the street.

I really get irked at the squids who give us a bad name.

[Faylaricia]

I got there just in time yesterday to do the parade lap and really enjoyed it. Thanks for having them! :clap::rider:

(I was also able to face my demon in turn 11 but to my surprise, I didn't even remember where exactly I was hit, so no issues there. Looking forward to getting back on the track soon! Once I get leathers that fit.) :trust:

[KevinG]

Maybe we should take video of everyone before the laps. Anyone crashes, we post their photo up on a page of shame....
Seriously, we will be changing things. Hope those few that are causing most of the trouble take it seriously or this wonderful thing will be gone.

Gee i hope this applies to folks running "street tires" in level 3 and 4!!!!!! Seriously, if ones signs up for "race school" or level 4 (above average or expert riders) WHY THE HECK ARE THEY ALLOWED TO RUN A NON TRACK APPROVESD TIRES?
Yes this can be easily enforced and enacted, we are wondering why not!? Personly i dont care if one wants to risk thier saftey, BUT DO NOT RICK MINE OR MY FRIENDS but out riding your tires.
thank you ridesmart for the great track days and the opportunity to enjoy a great hobby. Please take our input seriously.

[ciaka]

...that my friend is in the process of being addressed already, although it is a separate issue.
We are planning on a set of things be present as a precursor for L4 registration.

As to parade laps, we have suspected what the reasons are, and after holding another 2 or 3 since this thread started, I think we are proving ourselves right. Since the thread posted up, we have not had any crashing, and for that, to all you parade laps riders - :clap::clap::clap: .

The reason is not speed. Some crashes occurred at less than 20mph (yes, believe it or not). We had people followed by instructor in parade laps that crashed at ultra low speed, and even stated themselves afterward that is was other things. We have addressed them, and pending proper execution, we hope not to be revisiting this issue again.
Most parade lap riders are people who have never been to the track. They would show up and attempt to ride the track by 'putting in' some fun into the ride. What they would do would be to slow down ahead of a turn, only to rush it to get that inertia feeling they would get when going through the turn. Well, with their skills, lack of knowledge of the track, it was a perfect recipe for going down.
Rushing the corners was possible due to many people showing up for the laps and not having enough instructors to split the groups. We have implemented a process to cut the group into several small parts, where rushing corners is dramatically reduced. Now, they cannot do this since the instructor can see all of them.
This resulted in a much better behavior on the track by all parade lap participants.
I also think that due to the thread, the parade lap groups who arrive are policing themselves better, having talks before riding up, about how to do this safely and properly. For that, :clap: once again to all you parade lap riders and organizers.
This is a great tool to show people who have never been to the track, what it is about and to have a little taste of the riding. It would be a shame to have this thing disappear. We are very happy to see it is improving, but will monitor it until the end of the season, to see how this trend unfolds.
Thanks to all for your opinions and advice. Take care.



Gee i hope this applies to folks running "street tires" in level 3 and 4!!!!!! Seriously, if ones signs up for "race school" or level 4 (above average or expert riders) WHY THE HECK ARE THEY ALLOWED TO RUN A NON TRACK APPROVESD TIRES?
Yes this can be easily enforced and enacted, we are wondering why not!? Personly i dont care if one wants to risk thier saftey, BUT DO NOT RICK MINE OR MY FRIENDS but out riding your tires.
thank you ridesmart for the great track days and the opportunity to enjoy a great hobby. Please take our input seriously.

[Loyd]

Personally, I don't see how tires make "that" much a difference. I run pretty close to the same times either way. All I really notice is more effort to get the bike turned in and occasional wheelspin on non-dot tires.

I read someplace where the author specifically recomended riding tires that would slide a bit early to prepare you for what it was gonna feel like when they did so at race paces...mighta been 'Twist of the Wrist'... :shrug:

[Skid]

I got to have to agree with Loyd. Todays street tires are really really good. I am only a few seconds slower on Diablo Strada's as I am on Diablo Supercorsa's.

[ciaka]

I have no objections of your views. Today's tires are very good for track riding, however in L4, your skill allows you to push it hard and that push (depending on your skill) will put you over the limit of the tire. L4 is for race practice/advanced riders and many of them do push hard.
What we are talking about is not necessarily having slicks. There are many dot race tires that are just awesome. We will though, have something that will prevent those who want to sign up for L4 because L2 is already full, from doing so (even though they lack the skill).
Just my 2 cents here.

Thanks for listening. We will see you trackside.

[Skid]

I realize what you are trying to get at, but, Ridesmart's L4 is the slowest advanced group I have ever ridden with. It was the single biggest complaint I heard from everyone I know in the group. Rarely could you even get a good clean lap to actually practice. The track day on the 19th was the most passing I have ever done at a single track day event. I have also noticed a trend that at least half of intermediate riders already use race DOT's even though they really don't possess the skill to even use the street tires to their limits.

The real question is also going to be where is that dividing line on tires. I commenly use Diablo Corsa III's which aren't a race DOT's but a hyper performance tire. Would such a tire be allowed? How about the Diablo's? BT016 BT090? Are you going to put a full all out checklist of all allowed tires from all different brands. Tires series come and go on almost a quarterly schedule, will the list be kept up to date? This just seems overly complicated and I doubt, if used, it will stay in place for long.

Another suggesion that might help with keeping Level 2 riders in level 2 is having to be preapproved. If they are a licensed racer from CMRA, WERA, CCS…. You could automatically let them in. If they do not have a race license and are just fast track day riders, they must go out with an instructor to be validated. Once their abilities have been validated, they can continue to sign up for future L4 riding.

[ciaka]

...great minds think alike...we have a few things in mind and will be making efforts that in the following season we have them implemented. Thanks for the thoughts.


...

Another suggesion that might help with keeping Level 2 riders in level 2 is having to be preapproved. If they are a licensed racer from CMRA, WERA, CCS…. You could automatically let them in. If they do not have a race license and are just fast track day riders, they must go out with an instructor to be validated. Once their abilities have been validated, they can continue to sign up for future L4 riding.

[gixxerjasen]

You should look into how NESBA handles these things. I was very surprised at how the different levels were so different from ridesmart and twtex. I moved up north as a fast B group rider and promplty registered in the B group up there. Granted, I didn't know the track, but I was one of the slower guys in the B group. The guy next to me in the pits was trying to move to the A group, and he had to go out and do a couple of sessions with an instructor following him and evaluating him before they'd even let him move up. Maybe this could help in this situation.

[ciaka]

We have already implemented this routine and it is working just fine.
I think the biggest thing is for people to be honest with themselves when registering. We will have proceses in place, but ot sure would be nice to see some riders register according to what their real skills are. This is the concern we will be covering for the next season. Thanks for input - good thoughts.


You should look into how NESBA handles these things. I was very surprised at how the different levels were so different from ridesmart and twtex. I moved up north as a fast B group rider and promplty registered in the B group up there. Granted, I didn't know the track, but I was one of the slower guys in the B group. The guy next to me in the pits was trying to move to the A group, and he had to go out and do a couple of sessions with an instructor following him and evaluating him before they'd even let him move up. Maybe this could help in this situation.