braking in corner

[blueboy07734]

ok.....this is what i do brake hard, down shift for entry speed, and get into lean position( b4 and and somtime after the apex i tap very lightly on the back or front brake just 2 ajust line position so i don't high side) but people tell me never 2 brake in the turn......i would end up straighting the bike or wipe out any idea................ :-?

[Tourmeister]

:tab For new riders, the best thing to do is to finish ALL of your slowing down BEFORE you start to tip the bike in. Once you start tipping, then you roll on the gas to complete the corner. The bike is most stable when you are on the gas.

:tab Racers will brake deep into the corner. This is an advanced technique that requires the rider to be able to judge the traction left for braking and that left for keeping the bike upright. Some riders will slightly drag the back brake going into a corner. This will help settle the suspension if it is bouncing around. If this is not done very carefully, it can result in the back brake locking up which can result in a highside. This is when you see the rear of the bike whip out to the side, then flip the rider off.

:tab Once you are at the apex, it should be all gas from that point on and no brakes, unless there is another apex immediately after the first.

:tab There are several good books to read on proper cornering technique:

Twist of the Wrist II (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0965045021/qid=1119986737/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-0798042-6912618?v=glance&s=books) by Keith Code

Total Control: High-Performance Street Riding Techniques (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0760314039/qid=1119986737/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-0798042-6912618?v=glance&s=books) by Lee Parks

Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1889540536/ref=sib_rdr_dp/103-0798042-6912618?%5Fencoding=UTF8&no=283155&me=ATVPDKIKX0DE R&st=books) by David L. Hough

[HotChickenStrips]

Ok, Scott is absolutely right about not doing it when you are still relatively new to a bike, in my case, sometimes i use just a little bit of front brake leaning, but I woulnd't do that if I'm still learning a bike's quirks, some bikes just stand up so bad, and also different tires change the characteristics of braking in a corner.

Take it easy, enjoy the ride, and whenever you have a question, ask ask ask, you'll find a ton of first hand experience from guys who will share it.

[Jack Giesecke]

Since this is in the racing thread, I'll assume it's for track riding technique. On the track, trail braking is normally the rule rather than the exception. In bumpy corners, though, I can often find more corner speed by getting the braking done early. Heavy trail braking into a corner throws the weight bias of the bike forward and doesn't let the forks work over the bumps. Net result is you have to back off which costs corner speed. Corner speed and drive off the corner is much more important that late braking into the corner. It is the speed you get down the next little straight off that corner than makes up time. If you have to slow due to an unsettled set of forks, you've just wasted what you've gained on the brakes and then some.

Oak Hill is quite rough in some corners, notably turn two which is a very hard braking corner. I'll get my braking done there before the pavement patch for the reasons given above, so I don't screw up my corner speed and drive OFF that corner. I can go MUCH faster mid corner there if I don't trail in on the brakes past that patch.

Like Scott says, using your rear brake to settle the chassis works. I do that a lot and usually wear out the rear pads before the front, which may seem strange to a newbie.

Late braking is most useful for passing, beating another guy to the corner, whether from the outside or stuffing on the inside. I've always sort of taken pride in my braking skills. I love a good braking battle. It's like playing chicken at every corner.

Sometimes in a track duel, you can catch a guy queing off your movements on the bike. He can judge when you start your braking, where your braking point is, by when you sit up on the bike to shower down on the binders. A few times in the past in that situation in a good battle, I've gotten on the brakes late while side by side with the other guy, but not sat up, stayed in a tuck. The guy doesn't realize you're on the brakes until he's in too hot and gets wide making the pass a lot easier. :lol: Doesn't always work, but when it does, it's hilarious. :lol:

Absolutely NONE of what I just typed relates to street riding. But, as I say, this is in the racing thread so I take it this is the context.

[Tourmeister]

Since this is in the racing thread, I'll assume it's for track riding technique.

Getting gun shy Jack? :rofl Nothing wrong with giving us the racer's perspective in the other forums too, hehe.

[blueboy07734]

thank guy i just wanted 2 know the right thing 2 do and not getting in bad habit ..........i just wanted 2 know what most people do, when 2 front brake, back brake, or none.... i do it just 2 correct my line

[Tourmeister]

Explain more of what you mean by "to correct my line." :scratch

[blueboy07734]

ok when i'm exiting the apex even with max lean(or i think i am) i still high side a little so i very lightly press the back break some time front to ajust speed........still on throttle

[Tourmeister]

Blueboy, I think there is confusion about terminology.

:tab A lowside is when the bike is cornering and the wheels lose traction causing the bike to fall over on it's side and slide. For example, you are making a lefthand corner and are leaning the bike to the left. The rear or front loses traction and the bike falls over on it's left side and slides off the road.

:tab A highside happens when the rear tire looses traction and starts to slide while the bike is cornering. The can be the result of locking up the rear brake, simply cornering so hard the tire slips, or when exiting the corner on the gas and too much power is applied which breaks traction. This causes the rear of the bike to swing out to the side of the bike. Instead of rolling like normal, the rear tire is sliding sideways. Think of the dirttrack guys that take corners really fast and have the rear tire kicked out spitting dirt everywhere. If/when the tire regains traction, and if it is far enough out of line with the front tire, the typical result is that the bike flips sideways tossing the rider over the highside of the bike, hence the name. For example, you are making the left turn again, leaning to the left, the back tire slides out and tries to come around the right side of the bike. The bike will still be leaning left, but now will almost be traveling sideways. When the rear tire grabs, the bike stands up violently and sends the rider flying out in front of the bike. In nasty situations, the bike comes down on top of the rider...

:tab Here's a good video of Valentino Rossi getting tossed that shows it pretty good:

http://www.uponone.com/videos.php?id=1065

:tab Perhaps you are getting on the gas while leaned over and the tire is at the edge of losing traction and the bike feels squirmy?

[MP Simmons]

.............. I've gotten on the brakes late while side by side with the other guy, but not sat up, stayed in a tuck. The guy doesn't realize you're on the brakes until he's in too hot and gets wide making the pass a lot easier. :lol: Doesn't always work, but when it does, it's hilarious. :lol:

Absolutely NONE of what I just typed relates to street riding. But, as I say, this is in the racing thread so I take it this is the context.

Kinda like suckering a following car into a tight turn with a little judicious E brake use..watching he and his car squirm in panic is all good.
I Have had several close encounters with Whitetails without incident partly because of carrying a little brake ( pedal - which also lightly loads the front on a VFR) well past even a late apex. This works well on many of the hill country turns where you have made the apex but cannot see all of the exit. You don't upset the bike as badly in losing speed rapidly should you be ambushed. This group had quite a flurry of deer strikes over the past year.

[bushwhacker]

Just remember, on a track you have 40 feet of pavement to get around that turn, on the street you got maybe 12-14 feet. Makes a heck of a difference.

-

[bushwhacker]

From Minnesota DPS web site.'

Read question #3 and response.

http://www.dps.state.mn.us/mmsc/latest/MMSCHomeSecondary.asp?cid=5&mid=142

-