What's involved in getting a license without the MSF?

My gf just got a GS 500, mainly to avoid getting pulled over in her untitled unregistered Peugeot while at school, and we're short on time and cash for her to get a license before the semester starts. I took the MSF course a couple years ago to get my license, so I don't know what goes on when just taking the test thru the DPS. I'm not too worried about her riding abilities because she's a natural on a bicycle and is picking up riding the m/c very well, we just want to get her legal.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows what the riding test entails and what the fees are when getting licensed.

There is a riding test where the DPS Trooper follows you. He will signal where he wants you to turn using his turn signals. This means that you have to be constantly watching your mirrors for the signals. If you pass the riding test, there is a twenty question multiple choice test. Pass both and you get your license. This does not necessarily make someone qualified to operate a motorcycle, just legal

Riding a bicycle and a motorcycle have very little in common. The differences are enough to get you seriously hurt. If she manages to pass the DPS test, then I HIGHLY recommend spending time with her going over basic skills in a parking lot.

Not sure about the DPS fee, maybe $15-20 Word of warning! She should not ride the bike up there. It must show up ridden by a licensed AND insured rider!! They will check this.

Also, you have to provide the follow vehicle and the driver for the trooper to ride with. The follow vehicle and the bike both must be registered, inspected, and insured.

Don't pay attention to the signals from the follow vehicle or do something like walk the bike thru a stop sign and you are gonna fail. When a friend got his he did not have anyone with a motorcycle endorsement to bring the bike and had to haul it there in a pickup truck.

If someone shows up on the bike and does not have a motorcycle endorsement on their license they get a ticket.

It is a real PIA and not worth the hassle in my opinion.

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Like Scott said the DPS trooper follows you and observes. Typically they'll have you drive through nearby neighborhoods, at least they did here in Austin.

You also have to show up with a car driven by a licensed and insured driver. You drive while the DPS officer rides shotgun and observes the person on the motorcycle. Make sure the car is up on its inspection too (gotta have a front license plate on the car).

Tourmeister said:

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Riding a bicycle and a motorcycle have very little in common. The differences are enough to get you seriously hurt. If she manages to pass the DPS test, then I HIGHLY recommend spending time with her going over basic skills in a parking lot.

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I only mean she's a fast learner, not that she's a good cyclist therefore a good motorcyclist. However, I think a lot of people think there's more difference between bike and motorbike than there actually is. I ride with a friend occasionally that just started riding at age 50 (or so), and he told me the other day he almost wrecked his brand new FJR on some trolley tracks on McKinney Ave that run along with the street. I didn't see it, but I know what he did wrong without seeing it, while he still wouldn't know what to do next time he's in the same situation. Tires do the same thing whether motor propelled or not, and that's the key to staying upright. Trust me, I definitely wouldn't support her riding if I didn't trust her. Really the skills I was referring to that are shared between the bike and motorcycle are knowing what to expect from traffic. We're both bike messengers, and I know that riding in downtown traffic transfers very well to riding with highway traffic on a mc.

I first let her just ride my SV around my driveway, then we spent a couple hours at a big parking lot letting her ride my dirtbike, and I basically went through everything that was gone over with me in my MSF course, starting with the very basics. Luckily she only wants to ride with me for now, so I'm very glad that she's being smart and cautious about it.

I think that for anyone with an ounce of common sense, the MSF course is a joke. I couldn't believe how bad some of the people in my class were. IMO half the people out there riding any motorcycle are constantly in danger because they just don't get it. They look cool riding to the bar for bike night, but they couldn't tell you what countersteering is and to them throttle blipping is only something you do while sitting at a stoplight.

Given the accident stats, I don't think the course is a joke. More people need it. Remember, the Basic Rider Course is only intended to teach basic riding skills.

--> I think that for anyone with an ounce of common sense, the MSF course is a joke.

It's not about common sense - it's about handling, turning and stopping your vehicle in a controlled environment. And learning how to do just that.

BTW - a friend of mine, who has been riding a bicycle for over 15 years and is a skilled bicycle racer, could NOT complete the figure-8 part of the MSF skills test.

If you can't control your machine at slow speeds, what makes you think you will be able to do it a highway speeds?

Aye the MSF is no joke I am glad I just finished mine and didnt just run out and buy a bike and learn. If you go to a good school with good teachers you will learn alot. (and the figure 8 part is evil)


But take the MSF course again that way you dont have to deal with the DPS riding part. plus it doesnt hurt to have a refresher course on the basics.

jonny rotten said:

I think that for anyone with an ounce of common sense, the MSF course is a joke. I couldn't believe how bad some of the people in my class were. IMO half the people out there riding any motorcycle are constantly in danger because they just don't get it. They look cool riding to the bar for bike night, but they couldn't tell you what countersteering is and to them throttle blipping is only something you do while sitting at a stoplight.

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I have to disagree with you. I went into the MSF class NEVER using a manual transmission, never using a clutch, I came out of the class with the 2nd highest score in the class.

My teacher taught us how to be aware in many different situations, it was a great learning experience.

Kim

I think that for anyone with an ounce of common sense, the MSF course is a joke.

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If you have any common sense, you should come out of the class with the realization that you have a lot of things to practice to be proficient. In that respect, it is certainly not a joke.

Tourmeister said:

Word of warning! She should not ride the bike up there. It must show up ridden by a licensed AND insured rider!! They will check this.

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Funny, they didn't check any of that when I took my MC license test back in '81. How times have changed!

The MSF advanced rider course I took last year was worthwhile, even if it didn't reveal much that I didn't already know. It was a good reminder of the fundamentals and I actually had a pretty good time doing it. Don't rush your g/f into riding, jonny. She may have lots of natural ability, but that won't make up for training and experience. The consequences of even a small mistake can be pretty severe.

A friend of mine just went through this process at the DPS office in Plano - intersection of Custer & Parker.

You take the written test first. If you pass, then you may schedule the driving portion of the test. You can't even schedule the driving test until after passing the written test. So plan on two trips to the DPS office, probably on two different days.

For the driving test, you need to show up with a licensed, insured, and inspected motorycle, plus a licensed, insured, and inspected automobile and driver. The actual riding test is pretty much a joke. Ride into the neighborhood behind the DPS office, ride around the block, ride back. About 5 minutes total, only the most basic skills required.

Said friend borrowed my wife's Vespa for the test, and rode it over to the DPS office. I don't know if there were any issues with doing so. His chase vehicle driver has a motorcycle endorsement, so if they asked, I assume they just fibbed about who rode/drove which vehicle.

Overall I think MSF isn't any more hassle, though it's definately more expensive

- JimY

ps: How is buying a motorcycle less expensive than getting her car legal? Doesn't sound right to me.

scratch said:

Tourmeister said:

Word of warning! She should not ride the bike up there. It must show up ridden by a licensed AND insured rider!! They will check this.

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Funny, they didn't check any of that when I took my MC license test back in '81. How times have changed!

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Yeah when I took mine I rode my SL100 Honda to the DPS in 1972. I was 15yo and testing for the 100cc and under license. The officer gave me horn blast commands from behind to turn right, left or stop.

I remember getting confused and just did what I thought looked like should be the next turn. When we finished the trooper never said anything other than I had passed

What was really scarry was when I turned 16yo the license became unlimited which I made use of to ride any street bike I could get my hands on, some of which I owned and some belonged to friends. It is a miracle I am here to type this

Some of the highlights or should I say lowlights were the Kaw tripple two cycle H series and one that really stands out was riding a Harley Davidson 2 cycle 125cc with the shifter and rear wheel brake reversed, I believe it was made for HD by another company.

Hijack over.

If it's not too late, these guys run the beginners course every weekend in tow locations. The one in Flower Mound books up way in advance, but you can usually squeeze into the Grapevine/Southlake class with real short notice.

http://weridesafe.com

I took mine there, so did my girlfriend. Great instructors, and you don't have to worry about dumping your own bike during the test.

Teeth said:

Some of the highlights or should I say lowlights were the Kaw tripple two cycle H series

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Hoo boy.... flashback to '76 - got my m/c license on that one (250cc) and recall the horn signals for left & right turns. Yup... a lot has changed.

jcyuhn said:

ps: How is buying a motorcycle less expensive than getting her car legal? Doesn't sound right to me.

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We bought the car from someone who was selling it for another guy. It was a cool car for $600, but the seller said we'd have to get ahold of the guy who actually owned the car to get the title. The title has a lien on it, and the [expletive deleted] who owned the car won't cooperate and just get ahold of the bank and tell them the car has been sold and that the lien should have been released. The only time we've ever heard from the title holder is when he gets a ticket in the mail for tollbooth violations (heh heh). It's been a **** for almost two years now, but we didn't figure the car would last this long to begin with. Any advice on lost titles will be accepted here as well...

And about the MSF course, I shouldn't say it's a total joke. It is great if it's your first time on a bike, or first time with a manual tranny. I do think that if you go into the class with no experience, once you pass the class, you still have to go ride into the real world, where things are way different than riding between cones and over 2x4s.

Oh, and +1 on the figure 8s.

You can always get a bonded title for the car, it's cheap and pretty quick.

Kim

jonny rotten said:

jcyuhn said:

ps: How is buying a motorcycle less expensive than getting her car legal? Doesn't sound right to me.

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We bought the car from someone who was selling it for another guy. It was a cool car for $600, but the seller said we'd have to get ahold of the guy who actually owned the car to get the title. The title has a lien on it, and the a-hole who owned the car won't cooperate and just get ahold of the bank and tell them the car has been sold and that the lien should have been released. The only time we've ever heard from the title holder is when he gets a ticket in the mail for tollbooth violations (heh heh). It's been a **** for almost two years now, but we didn't figure the car would last this long to begin with. Any advice on lost titles will be accepted here as well...

And about the MSF course, I shouldn't say it's a total joke. It is great if it's your first time on a bike, or first time with a manual tranny. I do think that if you go into the class with no experience, once you pass the class, you still have to go ride into the real world, where things are way different than riding between cones and over 2x4s.

Oh, and +1 on the figure 8s.

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These guys do classes pretty often as well -

http://www.awesomecycles.com/new_home.htm

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txbanditrydr said:

Teeth said:

Some of the highlights or should I say lowlights were the Kaw tripple two cycle H series

Click to expand...

Hoo boy.... flashback to '76 - got my m/c license on that one (250cc) and recall the horn signals for left & right turns. Yup... a lot has changed.

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Saaayyyy, sssonnnnnny, you young fellers just don't know how it was in the oooollld days.

Got my motorcycle license in '65 (also 14 years old), 5 brake horsepower limit. Rode my scooter over to the Carrollton DPS office with my dad following me in the car. Same thing though, written test first, with the officer following in his cruiser and giving me horn signals for the driving test.

I have always thought that the kids nowadays should experience the sheer terror of getting their driver's license with an officer sitting next to them in the car. However, as crowded as the DPS places are, with long lines for the driving test, I had to back down with my 2 boys...

Gilk51 said:

I have always thought that the kids nowadays should experience the sheer terror of getting their driver's license with an officer sitting next to them in the car. However, as crowded as the DPS places are, with long lines for the driving test, I had to back down with my 2 boys...

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Man, that's nothing. I got my license on Halloween. My examiner was dressed as a clown. Not THAT's scary!

Have her go take the written test and get the learners permit, it allows her to ride anywhere as long as a licensed rider 21 or over is in sight.

Practice a bit and go take the test.

They will check both vehicles, bike and follow car for tags, inspection and insurance.

When I took it back in the 70's they put a mark on the back of one hand and two on the other and honked once for one way, twice for the other.

Or just go take the MSF and be done with it, you didn't need it, maybe she does.

jonny rotten said:

The title has a lien on it, and the [expletive deleted] who owned the car won't cooperate and just get ahold of the bank and tell them the car has been sold and that the lien should have been released.

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Key learning: if you don't get the title, you don't own the car. If a bank has a lien on the car, then it has a financial interest - somebody owes the bank money for the car. They aren't going to release the lien out of the goodness of their hearts. Probably looking to repossess it, if it could be found. Or maybe the bank reported it stolen... I wouldn't want to be riding in that car when it gets pulled over.

Well, I cast another vote for "spend the money on the MSF".

Money is tight, but how much tighter could it be if the correct education is not present in the operator of the vehicle, and a near-fatal accident occurs?

The MSF basic course is less than $200. Medical bills for an accident could be $20,000 or more. Even for something incredibly minor.

The MSF teaches skills that you don't learn even from a lifetime of dirt riding or 4+ wheel operation on a street. Skills that can save your life.

Dare I say... if you love her, you guys will come up with some way to raise the money.

Good luck!

Take the MSF course. Or any other structured class course, like Awesome Cycles and Ride Safe. It's worth it in the long run.

I rode my bike to the DPS office, took the written and riding test, and rode the bike back. Didn't have any problems (keep in mind this was over ten years ago and it may vary from location to location). But I have heard of others being ticketed for doing so since they didn't have the license endorsement yet. Especially by DPS officers who specifically sit outside the office waiting for you to ride off.

If you think your girlfirend's overly cautious when riding around in your driveway, wait till she takes it out on the freeways for the first time. Talk about a rush of adrenaline .

another vote here for Awesome Cycles, Thats were I took mine and the guys know there stuff that work there. All the bikes are in good order and maintained every week.