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OK where are we at on the surging cure?

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Volt

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My 2008 Bandit 1250 has an occasional bad surge. I have read on various forums of many theories and cures.

1. Install a resistor in place of the O2 sensor.

2. Remove the secondary plates.

3. Disconnect the gear indicator which tricks it into running in 6th gear mode and this cures the surging.

4. Install a Gear Indicator with ATRE.

5. Gas filled up almost to the very top causes surging. My surge happens at any fuel level but there does seem to be something to this as far as low speed mild surging is concerned.

6. Various other ideas.


What is the consensus on what works?


I am thinking of getting a Gipro Gear Indicator with the ATRE and setting it to 6th gear. Has anyone tried this?

I might try disconnecting the gear indicator first to see what happens.

Question: Does the 6th gear mode cause the secondaries to get a full open command all the time? If so perhaps this is basically an electronic version of removing the secondaries.

Any thoughts on any of this is appreciated...

I'm on the verge of tossing my bike in a dumpster.
 
Volt said:
I'm on the verge of tossing my bike in a dumpster.
Click to expand...

No no no, don't toss it yet!
I must admit I never really did have any major surging problems, but I'd have to say that since removing the secondaries and adding the 02 bypass and TFI box, my Bandit behaves soooo much better. No surging, less of a power dip at higher RPM; overall it just feels stronger.
Definitely worth doing.
 
I wish I could offer help, the only thing I've ever had mine surge with was my fault for a bad intake connection .
I've done the throttle plate removal and have no problem at all. I ride at sea level most of the time..Florida..but on a recent trip to NCarolina it ran fine.
Have you tried different brands and grades of gas?
Shotrod
 
Jeez..... here's the "surge" thang again, BUT on something other than the Beemer I had over eight years ago???

I didn't complain about the surge on my R1150R, and I the ONLY time I've experienced anything like said "surge" on my 1250 Bandit, is prior to changing out the plugs..... which I just completed the other morning, irradium this time.

Surge? Ride faster, throttle past the stumble and take it up to party mode!
 
I do wonder about the gas.

Yeah I might yank the secondaries. Does anyone know if forcing a 6th gear map by way of a Gipro Gear Indicator with the ATRE keeps the secondaries open?

I might need help heaving the thing up into the dumpster.
 
My bike is completely stock and the only time I experience a surge is in first gear at very low rpm and even then it is very minor.

But I think the only way to get rid of low rpm surging is to do the 02 bypass, otherwise if you keep it in place it will attempt lean the fuel mixture at low rpm no matter what mods you do.
 
If I remove the secondaries will it cause the engine to run lean? Or will the O2 sensor adjust the mixture back up to the proper ratio?
 
Volt said:
I am thinking of getting a Gipro Gear Indicator with the ATRE and setting it to 6th gear. Has anyone tried this?

I might try disconnecting the gear indicator first to see what happens.

Question: Does the 6th gear mode cause the secondaries to get a full open command all the time? If so perhaps this is basically an electronic version of removing the secondaries.
Click to expand...

I did the GiPro on mine and found no difference in performance or driveability. Good gear indicator but that's it.... I think it might work better on something like a GSX-R. I really doubt that it has any effect on secondaries as the ATRE is supposed to put the motor in a more advanced ignition curve per 6th gear. Over on Max-Zuki a fellow had been trying to reverse engineer the ecu mapping in hopes of forcing the secondaries to stay open and change fueling and timing curves. Think it's still a work in progress and a rather complicated affair that might or might not see completion.

I did remedy a slight off idle surge on mine when I did a stage 1 with a PC-III and used a EU map that seems to run well. The motor runs in closed loop till somewhere around the 5K mark so an 02 bypass tricks it to quit leaning it out for emissions. Try a bypass resistor from Dobeck or Dynojet and hopefully you don't get a FI fault code popping up on the dash at steady highway speeds like mine does.... Newer batch models are better according to Dale. Search on here for how to make your own if you want.

If it's really bad surging then I would be inclined to be thinking of something else going on with sensors, air intake leakage, venting, throttle position sensor setting, TBI sync or something that an add on gadget may not correct. May be time for some troubleshooting at your local shop.
 
Yeah I think I might end up taking it to the dealer. Burns me to have to do that. I don't want to rack up a big bill as they dink around replacing this then that. All forums concerning the 1250 have long discussions about the surging so I think the dealership might be a waste of time if the issue is inherit with the design. This crap should not happen on a modern vehicle at 3 to 4 thousand miles.

I might get the Gipro minus the ATRE to save on costs. A gear indicator would be nice.

Mine will go into a 3 to 4 second strong surge like it is sputtering from running out of gas or missing, then it clears. Seems to happen when going off or near off the throttle. I is abrupt enough to where I think it could be a safety issue, like when in a curve or in the rain.
 
Mine still surges on occasion. Seems to occur more when it's hot (but not always). It is a rare thing, maybe once or twice a month, with riding almost every day.

Mine occurs at around 3500 RPMs and usually goes away after a few seconds.

I have removed my flys.

I have a TFI, O2 sensor replaced with resistor.

I have a gear indicator and a speedohealer.

I drive fast - but not as fast as fifty... :eek2:

when you figure this out, IF you figure this out - PLEASE let me know the secret. :rider:
 
I think the secret is riding style.

Modern fuel injection motorcycles hafta run lean and green to keep the Al Gores of the world happy. Our fuel injection can only take so many readings per second and adjust itself accordingly, and I think what you're feeling is the computer trying to correct, adjust, and compensate for the leanest environmentally-friendly fule mixture by responding to minimal or THE LACK OF ADDITIONAL throttle input while cruising at a sane & steady speed.

Folks like me who feel the need to walk up & down the gear box, blipping the throttle between downshifts, and constantly playing with throttle position rarely ride at a steady enough (or slow enough) speed with which to confuse the fuel injection into attempting to maintain economy via a lean distribution of fuel.

I'll be willing to bet that those who are most aware of their bikes' surging, will also be the pilots who boast better economy than my 32-40 mpg.....
 
Yes mine seems similar to what Twist wrote, I think it is also around 3500 rpm and only on occation. I think I will pull the tank and do a loose wire and hose check.

Or throw it in a dumpster...:miffed:
 
My surging pretty much went away after installation of a Power Commander. I didn't change the pipe or anything else, but I think they did disconnect the O2 sensor. I made up my own map which doesn't add as much fuel as the PC-recommended map. I wanted to add just enough fuel to make the surging go away, but not enough to increase fuel consumption much, or to affect the cat-con or emissions. I still get upper 40s, often 50, for mpg. Slow rider. Happy with the arrangement, and it doesn't seem to have screwed anything else up.

Only thing I still want to play with is the abrupt fuel shut-off when I close the throttle from a steady highway speed. Going 70 on the highway, then want to slow down just a little and very gently roll off the throttle, and it lurches forward as if the fuel has just been shut off entirely. Might try adding some fuel at that rpm level at very low throttle opening positions on the PC.
 
I never had any surging problems with my Bandit even before I added a fuel manager, opened up air box, free flowing exhaust and removing the secondaries which made an already great running bike ever better. :rider:
 
Volt said:
Yes mine seems similar to what Twist wrote, I think it is also around 3500 rpm and only on occation. I think I will pull the tank and do a loose wire and hose check.

Or throw it in a dumpster...:miffed:
Click to expand...

I think the dumpster is the way to go....get rid of that PIA and get a real bike. Please pm me with the location of dumpster.
 
Volt said:
Yes mine seems similar to what Twist wrote, I think it is also around 3500 rpm and only on occation. I think I will pull the tank and do a loose wire and hose check.

Or throw it in a dumpster...:miffed:
Click to expand...


I have to think there is something missing here. Mine never had surge issues either off idle, there was a very slight hint of it in the 3500-4000 RPM range but you really had to be looking for it to feel it.

Just let me know which Dumpster I need to look in. That is a great bike and just needs a good going over to find the problem.

Just curious how many miles are on it? I know my bandit until I broke the 5k mile mark the gas mileage was 36 regardless how I rode it. After 5k miles it went up to 42, and again did not matter how I rode it. The only reason I sold that bike was I "Lack The Discipline" :mrgreen:

Todd
 
Volt......I only notice a surge only very slightly in 1st gear at low rpm, about 3,500 as others have stated but it's so minor I've never considered it a problem and I don't spend much time in 1st...Are you experiencing surging in the other gears as well ? If so it could be a number of things but with a bit of detective work and a little time you can probably isolate the issue and I bet it's something minor and easily remedied...
 
Volt said:
Mine will go into a 3 to 4 second strong surge like it is sputtering from running out of gas or missing, then it clears. .
Click to expand...

mine does that too--occasionally. when mine sits in the parking lot all day at work, it does it on the way home at about the 3 mile mark. once it clears, it's over. ititially, i thought it was from filling up to the rim and then gas expendaing in the heat all day was the problem. but it has since happened with only a half a tank.
 
Fittysom'n said:
I'll be willing to bet that those who are most aware of their bikes' surging, will also be the pilots who boast better economy than my 32-40 mpg.....
Click to expand...
I agree.

Volt said:
I'm on the verge of tossing my bike in a dumpster.
Click to expand...

Unlike the others, I will not make you do the work yourself, I will come help you. Heck - I'll even bring the dumpster with me.:trust:

Try these:
http://www.twtex.com/forums/showpost.php?p=671245&postcount=5836

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showpost.php?p=609851&postcount=5138

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37708&highlight=surging
 
No surging complaints here only slightly noticeable in 1rst gear........I easily get 50 mpg or more riding right at the speed limit on the highway, and if I'm a little more aggressive say 77-82 mph indicated on the highway I still get around 45 mpg...
 
kitesurfer said:
mine does that too--occasionally. when mine sits in the parking lot all day at work, it does it on the way home at about the 3 mile mark. once it clears, it's over. ititially, i thought it was from filling up to the rim and then gas expendaing in the heat all day was the problem. but it has since happened with only a half a tank.
Click to expand...

My 07 bandit has over 40,000 miles and after an oil change a few thousand miles ago it started occurring on my bike with the same symptoms. With the same occurrence .. maybe once or twice a week only riding home from work. I thought I messed something up, but sounds like others are having this issue.
 
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