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View Full Version : Now a "hypothetical" on title transfers


ljjohns
09-19-2010, 03:47 PM
I now understand that title transfers and registration are two issues that can be separated. This question has solely to do with title transfers.

For purposes of discussion, let us assume that 18 months ago, my brother in a neighboring state saw a great parts bike for sale that might actually be restorable, and so I sent him the cash to buy it. He got a clean title from the seller signed by the seller.

But events got in the way, and neither my brother nor I did anything other than tow the bike to his garage where he stashed it. We have a bill of sale from the seller to go with the signed-over title document.

Now I have the time and space to focus on this parts bike: I can pick it up from my out-of-state brother and get the unassigned title from him when I do. And then I can tow it into Texas where I'll want to transfer the title to me (not having done so 18 months ago). [I'm not interested in registering it at the moment; I'll still have to see if it can be fixed up to pass inspection, so titling is my only concern]

Am I going to get flack from the Texas DMV for not transferring the title immediately on purchase?

Thanks for any insights folks can give me. If this "hypothetical" turns into a real story, I'll share it with folks when I have an ending to it.

Larry Johnson
El Paso TX

SilverBullet
09-19-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm not a TxDOT expert just thinking here.

The only flack might be regarding presumptive value of the vehicle. They will want to use value from date of sale, not sure if they have ability to backtrack values.

Make sure when you apply for title it is stated date vehicle entered Texas. I think this might be more important than date of sale. Not sure how you could document or prove this though.

_

ljjohns
09-19-2010, 04:23 PM
In this hypothetical, the bill of sale would indicate that the bike was being sold as inoperable; the date entering Texas will be harder to document.

Thanks for your insights.

ljj

WoodButcher
09-19-2010, 04:25 PM
Well, Texas does the value on a bike from a book they maintain. Selling price or running condition has nothing to do with it. They may penalize you for not transferring the title within 30 day though.

ljjohns
09-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Do you know what that penalty is? Thanks.

ljj

JMZ
09-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Texas used to have some with form or something you could fill out so you would not get penalized for not transferring it quick enough. I have filled out several. I don`t know if it is still the case though.

ps . take a pic of the bike and shopw them the condition, can`t hurt anything.

NPHLYT
09-19-2010, 04:50 PM
I don't know if you already know this, but if you do then stop reading and move along.

The bike being transferred does not need insurance unless you are planning on registering it as well. I have 2 non-running bikes which I transferred using the insurance card from another bike.

ljjohns
09-19-2010, 04:53 PM
JMZ:
Thanks. Unfortunately, it may be the case in this hypothetical that a picture won't prove anything because the bike looks good--it's been made inoperable by the removal of internal parts that won't show.

NPHYLT:
Got the distinction between title transfer and registration clarified on another thread. Now I'm trying to figure out the complexities of transferring a title to a bike that can't be registered--it's inoperable and can't pass inspection--after a long delay between the purchase and the attempt to transfer the title.

ljj

gixxerjasen
09-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Well, Texas does the value on a bike from a book they maintain. Selling price or running condition has nothing to do with it. They may penalize you for not transferring the title within 30 day though.Are they still doing that? I know they went to that a while back, however my last purchase I paid taxes on what I paid for the bike. Maybe the two were the same, but the lady didn't pull out the book like they did a few years ago.

Burbo
09-19-2010, 05:41 PM
http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/titles/std_presumptive_value.htm This link will get you to the TXDOT page to find out how much they will value the bike at.

NPHLYT
09-19-2010, 05:51 PM
Have the bike appraised and then take that in. But make sure they don't appraise it for $10.75.

SilverBullet
09-19-2010, 09:18 PM
Are they still doing that? I know they went to that a while back, however my last purchase I paid taxes on what I paid for the bike. Maybe the two were the same, but the lady didn't pull out the book like they did a few years ago.

Yes they are still doing it. Either you bought from a dealer or price you paid was within the range of presumptive value. Presumptive value comes up when VIN is entered in their computer, no book lookup involved. Minimum you can pay is 80% of presumptive value unless bought from a licensed dealer.

If VIN is not on their presumptive value database then and only then can you get an approved appraisal and use that amount for tax basis.

Their are some exceptions for not using presumptive value; off road vehicles, 25 years or older, government auction, etc.

_

CycleCat
09-19-2010, 09:41 PM
No need to register it until it is road worthy. Just tell DMV it was a restoration project and now it is ready. I doubt they will care.

Scorch
09-20-2010, 02:57 AM
I now understand that title transfers and registration are two issues that can be separated. This question has solely to do with title transfers.

Am I going to get flack from the Texas DMV for not transferring the title immediately on purchase?

Thanks for any insights folks can give me. If this "hypothetical" turns into a real story, I'll share it with folks when I have an ending to it.

Larry Johnson
El Paso TX

Larry, like any other situation dealing with the law, it can vary greatly depending on who is administering it. I can not answer your question definitively, but I can relate how a similar situation went with me.

I bought an old motorcycle through ebay 3 years ago. I had it shipped in from Michigan, and it has a Michigan title, which the previous owner endorsed. The bike was running when I received it. I had it covered with liability insurance and headed down to the DPS to get the title transferred. The clerk informed me that out of state vehicles had to get a VIN certification (I understand some people call this a green sheet, though nothing on the form was green :)) from an inspection station. She gave me a checklist of items that had to be completed, which included the PO's address, and social security number (good grief).

As it happens, I put off taking the bike to get the VIN certificate completed. After a few months, the carbs needed an overhaul and I shelved the project for two years.

Flash forward two years later. I got the bike running, dug out the original Michigan title and the VIN sheet, rode the bike to Jiffy Lube. The kid working there filled out the VIN sheet and gave the bike an inspection sticker. He was a little puzzled over inspecting a bike with no plates but I explained I needed the VIN to get the plates, he shrugged and took care of it.

I headed over to the DPS with the completed VIN sheet. I pulled a number and waited my turn. I left the "checklist" in my backpack, there was no way I was going to initiate a manhunt to find the PO and get his social. I got lucky and when my number was called, I got some young guy as opposed to the usual self-important older gals who usually make this a ****. I handed him the VIN sheet, the Michigan title, and the insurance. He gave me a short form to sign, took my money for the taxes and fees, and handed me plates. Three weeks later the new Texas title arrived. No penalty for waiting 3 years before getting it transferred.

Good luck!

DallasDon
09-20-2010, 05:32 AM
The DMV is not concerned with a bill of sale. As long as you have the signed title you can change the title to Texas. If the vehicle is from out of state you must get the VIN verified by an inspection station and provide such to the DMV at the time of Application for Title. DMV also has a Form U-130 that is usually required however since the vehicle is from out of state I don't believe you have to have that to apply for a Title. You must provide mileage verification which is usually on the back of the title. If the Title wasn't dated when you got the vehicle you can avoid any penalties by just dating it when you get ready to title it.

DEPTHCHARGE
09-21-2010, 08:44 PM
I may be wrong but to the best of my knowledge, TX charges a penalty of $25 for each month over 30 days past the date of sale. Hopefully the PO didn't date the paperwork. If they did and you're looking at paying big money to title it, you may look into getting a bonded title. It may be a cheaper way to get it put in your name all things considered.

I got an 1100 Katana 2yrs ago and I'm just getting to the point of putting it on the road so i can relate. No sale date on my stuff so I may luck out.

If you don't want to pay tax on the presumptive value, you have to get it appraised by a qualified examiner I.E...motorcycle insurance claim adjuster or similiar. BUT, TX says they must charge a minimum fee of $100 for the service (I imagine it would NEVER be the minimum unless you know them) so between the fee and the tax you end up paying will probably not be much better, if any, than the PV tax in the first place. And that doesn't account for the additional BS you'd have to endure.

Maybe TX should just hit us with an income tax and be done with it! lol:doh:

My 2 pennies.

Manfred
09-21-2010, 08:56 PM
I have an old Honda in my garage that was sold at auction a couple of years ago and has not had a title issued yet. Texas does charge a fee for not applying for a title within 20 working days, but I don't find anything indicating a monthly fee.

This form (http://www.txdot.gov/txdoteforms/GetForm?formName=/VTR-131.xdp&appID=/VTR&status=/reportError.jsp&configFile=WFServletConfig.xml) is what one needs to fill out for "title only", with registration to be completed later.

ljjohns
09-21-2010, 08:57 PM
Just for fun, I ran the VIN and it came up with a value of $5300 for the bike.
Had the same problem when I registered a similar bike (same model but a 93 not a 96 and with 90K on the clock, not 17) and they said the presumptive value was 7200. Fortunately, the WA folks accepted the bill of sale because the Kelly Blue Book price was within $1000 of my purchase price.

Keep those revenue streams flowing!

Larry Johnson

ljjohns
09-21-2010, 09:02 PM
Manfred:

A good friend and wrench told me that after picking up a project bike in Carolina, he went to transfer the title (but not register it). He was told that he could transfer the title but then when he went to register it, they would charge him another title transfer fee.

Since he understood that the penalty for not transferring title in 30 days was less than the second title transfer fee, he opted to wait until he got the bike running, pay the transfer fee and the penalty. He said that this was what the guy at the counter actually advised him to do.

Mysterious are the workings of the DMV.

Larry Johnson

Manfred
09-21-2010, 09:05 PM
This page (ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/vtr/title_penalties.pdf) shows the late fees and states that they do NOT apply to motorcycles (and other things) more than 25 years old. For newer stuff, it does whack one with a $25 per month fine :-(

Larry - I've purchased a non-op bike with a Nevada title. I sold it before fixing it, so only did the title transfer.

Since my Honda is a 1973, I will wait until it's running before I do any paperwork. Thanks for the info!

JVRx7
09-22-2010, 07:01 AM
I now understand that title transfers and registration are two issues that can be separated. This question has solely to do with title transfers.

For purposes of discussion, let us assume that 18 months ago, my brother in a neighboring state saw a great parts bike for sale that might actually be restorable, and so I sent him the cash to buy it. He got a clean title from the seller signed by the seller.

But events got in the way, and neither my brother nor I did anything other than tow the bike to his garage where he stashed it. We have a bill of sale from the seller to go with the signed-over title document.

Now I have the time and space to focus on this parts bike: I can pick it up from my out-of-state brother and get the unassigned title from him when I do. And then I can tow it into Texas where I'll want to transfer the title to me (not having done so 18 months ago). [I'm not interested in registering it at the moment; I'll still have to see if it can be fixed up to pass inspection, so titling is my only concern]

Am I going to get flack from the Texas DMV for not transferring the title immediately on purchase?

Thanks for any insights folks can give me. If this "hypothetical" turns into a real story, I'll share it with folks when I have an ending to it.

Larry Johnson
El Paso TX

"IF" the out of state/previous title is signed, and "IF" it is NOT DATED, then it's a mute point, simply wait and fill in the date at the appropriate time... as in the day you go to do the transfer.

As to value, my experience has been if it's "in the book" make sure you know what the lowest or "loan" value is ahead of time & use that value. If it's old enough that it's not in the book you can try a number around 60-65% of value. The harder it is for them to find the value, the "easier" it is for them to accept your value.

Hope that helps... :trust:
John