I've ridden 10K on mr. bandit now and need some adjustment

Hello all,
It's been a while since I have been over here as I mostly post on pashnit.com, but when I have questions I come to you guys.

I have taken two L O N G tours on my 07 1250s and have come to some conclusions for me and this machine. Now I want to run them by you guys for thoughts.

I feel there isn't enough low end power but plenty of high. I like riding the twisties in 2nd and using engine braking and late apexing for control. I feel like I can't get this guy low enough...having the RPMs hovering at 4000 in second opposed to my old bandit 12s which ran about 6500 RPM in second. That's number one. Can I drop my front sprocket by one tooth to add some low end? How much will the high end be affected?

It's tall for me. What about lowering links? Does this compromise performance or will I even notice but simply be more stable when stopping?

What about a different seat. This stock seat sucks and I really hate it after two hours. My old boy had a corbin which i loved but the years won't exchange, so can I modify the current seat a bit to make it lower or more comfortable? Anyone selling a different seat??

Would changing the load of the suspension help with making it lower and in doing so does that screw with anything else? I have a friend who referred me to Dave Moss, a suspension specialist in Sunnyvale. CA. I do believe I should pay him a visit as he evaluates my weight and what I take when touring and will tell me what i need to do to tweak it for me.

I wanna iron these issues out or sell the bike and look for another that is a better fit. I LOVE my old Bandit and put over 70K on it, but I am not having a love affair with this one. I have dropped it once, at slow speed doing a tight u-turn on gravel. I believe i pulled in my clutch too far and lost momentum, but whatever happened it was in front of a whole slew of Harley riders what were parked along the road. I felt like an new riding imbecile. I would like never to do that again. This is a heavy machine...about 40 lbs heavier than my old Bandit and with the hard bags and top box heavier yet. I am getting older....

Any help you can provide would be awesome!! Thanks in advance!

Me at Streetmasters last month...Heck, it looks like it fits?



Last month on the Moki Dugway...it is a gorgeous machine!! (all but the broken turn signal and scratches on the same side bag from my little performance art!)

Hmmm. Seat sucks ,yes ,suspension basis but o.k. .agree with you there .
I've hand both 1200 and 1250 .I think its just the opposite way round power wise.
To me the 1200 had more power up high ,it definitely was faster .The 1250 to me
has more power down low .
The new bandit has gone touring while the old one was more (a little )sports.
You do have one more gear so maybe dont count to two its a different bike.I do kind
of miss the 1200 though .

Nice looking bike! Lots of question. I think I can help with a few.

demenshea said:

Hello all,

I have taken two L O N G tours on my 07 1250s and have come to some conclusions for me and this machine. Now I want to run them by you guys for thoughts.

I feel there isn't enough low end power but plenty of high. I like riding the twisties in 2nd and using engine braking and late apexing for control. I feel like I can't get this guy low enough...having the RPMs hovering at 4000 in second opposed to my old bandit 12s which ran about 6500 RPM in second. That's number one. Can I drop my front sprocket by one tooth to add some low end? How much will the high end be affected?

Click to expand...

Lot's of people have done this. I hear it's very effective at limiting front tire wear. I haven't done this, and I'm sure someone who has will chime in, but I think this will give you just what you're looking for.

It's tall for me. What about lowering links? Does this compromise performance or will I even notice but simply be more stable when stopping?

Click to expand...

Plenty of people do this, but I've never been a proponent of lowering a bike, especially the way you like to ride. Lowering links will also reduce ground clearance, which isn't good when you're heeled over in corners.

What about a different seat. This stock seat sucks and I really hate it after two hours. My old boy had a corbin which i loved but the years won't exchange, so can I modify the current seat a bit to make it lower or more comfortable? Anyone selling a different seat??

Click to expand...

I think this is a better way to lower you, which is really what you're after. It won't have any negative effects on the bike's handling. The Sargent seat is popular for it's comfort, but won't lower you any, I don't think. I think you should take a look at the Holeshot modified Corbin saddle, which is lower than the stock Corbin:

http://www.holeshot.com/

Would changing the load of the suspension help with making it lower and in doing so does that screw with anything else? I have a friend who referred me to Dave Moss, a suspension specialist in Sunnyvale. CA. I do believe I should pay him a visit as he evaluates my weight and what I take when touring and will tell me what i need to do to tweak it for me.

Click to expand...

Setting the preload to the lowest setting will cause the bike to squat a little bit more when you sit on it, but not without trade-offs. Most obviously, it also reduces ground clearance by the amount it squats. It might also compromise suspension travel on bumpy roads. I'd recommend trying a lower seat, first, although reducing pre-load has the advantage of being free.

Goo luck.

This is the first time I have heard anyone say the 1250 is lacking in low end torque. If you sell it you will have a hard time finding a bike with more low end than the 1250, as for top end 1250's are know for falling on their faces at high rpm so im not sure what your comparing it to besides another bandit... Go ride a FZ1 and your bandit will feel like a locomotive in comparison. I tried a 17th front sprocket to make it quicker but all it really did was make first gear useless and make freeway rides much busier and throw the already optomistic speedo way off...I guess for around town gearing it down it would be OK but you would then need to add a speedo healer to correct speedometer reading.

yamadavidson said:

I guess for around town gearing it down it would be OK but you would then need to add a speedo healer to correct speedometer reading.

Click to expand...

Wow, something I never considered...thanks.

I seriously don't feel the grip or grab of the 1200. Got me, and riding on gravel on the 1250 is difficult too...seems like i can't get it geared low enough and it feels really top heavy and no I don't put anything in the top box but alternate seasonal riding clothes and a chain cleaning kit. Otherwise it's pretty empty.

I don't know...maybe it's me. My husband much prefers the fuel injected model but i seem to like the carbureted version better. I also need a different can...i hate that exhaust can...it's just plain ugly. My old one has a holeshot. Can I use that holeshot on this bike?? I have the original pipe and exhaust for the old one.

BlueStreak said:

Plenty of people do this, but I've never been a proponent of lowering a bike, especially the way you like to ride. Lowering links will also reduce ground clearance, which isn't good when you're heeled over in corners.


I think this is a better way to lower you, which is really what you're after. It won't have any negative effects on the bike's handling. The Sargent seat is popular for it's comfort, but won't lower you any, I don't think. I think you should take a look at the Holeshot modified Corbin saddle, which is lower than the stock Corbin:

Click to expand...

Thanks alot! That's exactly the sort of thing i was worried about with lowering the bike. I don't want to compromise the handling dynamics!

That seat looks awesome. I'll do a search on Craigslist first since I could care less if it's new or used! I do care about having gas money for my next trip to Canada in July!

I want to try and get the bike dialed in for me by then.

Thanks again to all!

I'll chime in to support the low end, as well. My experience has been the Bandit pulls hard from deep down and I love that in the twisties.

I agree with you about the seat.

GregH said:

I'll chime in to support the low end, as well. My experience has been the Bandit pulls hard from deep down and I love that in the twisties.

I agree with you about the seat.

Click to expand...

So is this my imagination?? I swear it doesn't have the grunt that my 2000 did, but could this be because of the holeshot?? Would that make a difference? What about the fact the RPMs are so much lower? That isn't in my imagination...i don't understand. Maybe i ride this one less aggressively?? I am puzzled.

I lightened the pre load on mine one notch and it made a huge difference for me...I'm about 170 lbs with everything on and about 5'8...Could touch the ground easier, made the bike more stable, turned better, made the seating position flatter, and absorbed bumps better..Just better all around as the sag was probably more in line with being correct for my stature..

As far as low end is concerned I'm kind of surprised...to me it's the complete opposite (strong on bottom and mid and weaker on top)...The bandit makes my old RC51 feel like a slug off the bottom and midrange..It even feels slightly stronger than the speed triple (which is no slouch in the motor department) I recently tried.

I have an 07 Bandit. It has SERIOUS LOW END GRUNT. If you want more, go 3 teeth up on the rear sprocket, don't drop the front. You should get new sprockets and chain all together. And a speedo healer. Be prepared for lots of wheelies with bigger rear sprocket. Enjoy!

BTW, going up on rear and not down on front sprocket saves a great deal of chain wear. And 3 on rear=1 on front.

I agree with the others, the low end has never been a weak point in my opinion.

Maybe the issue is with the fuel delivery. I am sure Dale can provide assistance in this area to improve rideability.

When was the last time the valve clearances and throttle body sync were done?

blchandl2 said:

I agree with the others, the low end has never been a weak point in my opinion.

Maybe the issue is with the fuel delivery. I am sure Dale can provide assistance in this area to improve rideability.

When was the last time the valve clearances and throttle body sync were done?

Click to expand...

So I must have drunk/drank? the koolaid, eh and it's effected my low end power...I swear my old Bandit could so easily wheelie and this one, no so much. It isn't about starting so hot, but just powering through the twisties. heck, like i mentioned earlier, I had a ton of miles on my old one and i have very little on this one so maybe when the passes open, I'll get a whole new treat!

I bought it with 7500K on it and it had just been serviced. I have a extended warranty so I need to get it in for it's 16K service to keep my warranty valid, which i am 1K overdue. I put on about 3.5K on my last SW trip. I believe on this service they do check the valve clearances.

I found a seat on craigslist from a guy who bought his with the holeshot corbin and he doesn't like how it looks. SCORE...i'm gonna go and get it tomorrow.

I used lowering links on my 1250. 2 inches lower. It definitely helped to flat foot and have a lower center of gravity. I have since raised it back up due to being blown over by a pop up storm at work. I have since decided that lowering takes speed away in the corners as it would touch the right foot peg or on the left the kickstand sooner than expected.

When it was time to change the chain and sprockets I went with 1 lower on the front. I was surprised with the difference. It will wheelie with just throttle. The biggest difference I thought was it pulled in 3rd gear stronger.
This is in addition to stage 2 mods.

I originally removed foam and recontoured the stock seat for a lower reach to the ground. It worked but made for a hard place to sit. I ended up purchasing a holeshot corbin. Much more comfortable. It is taller and further from the bars than the the recontoured stock seat.

These are just my observations of 30k miles on mine. Good luck in making yours better for you or finding something you like better.

mike

I lowered mine an inch by getting a GSF650 seat, but a custom seat is probably a lot nicer. I don't like messing with my motorcycle's geometry much either.

I think the problem with "low end grunt" is what each of us means by this term (it's kind of nebulous). Is the ability to pop a wheelie and low end torque the same thing? I can't really imagine more torque out of a bike, I feel like my Bandit is incredibly quick. Or perhaps I've never really ridden a bike with a lot of low end grunt and don't know what I'm missing. On the Bandit I only rarely exceed 6000 RPMs and regularly see triple digits on the speedo. My son just bought a new Yamaha R6 Saturday, I'll have to take it out and compare...

I've driven the Moki Dugway several times, but never knew it was called "Moki Dugway" (I always called it the windy dirt road on Hwy 261)

Well, this is an older dudes thoughts on your situation. You were used to a Hooligan Bike as the 1200 was known. Suzuki redid the Bandit to a more of a standard bike. More weight, less snap, more bottom end torque. A platform to make a great sports touring bike out of. As with any bike, You can spend loads of money to get it headed in the direction you want to go.
Per sample, my present configuration is a totally stock bike, engine/drive train wise, with givi / cooscase luggage, tank bag, Corbin seat, 2 " Rox riseers for the handbars and a windshield configuration I like for traveling. And , Knocking on 50,000 correct miles on it in the 3 years I've had it. One injector snyc. No valve check. All the power I've ever wanted (remember age and many miles here ) from Pike's Peak to Key West as per elevation changes.

I think I would look at other bikes in what you're wanting. How about a GSXR with a better seat, higher handle bars. I'm sure someone makes mounts for the givi stuff. Would be a lighter, more responsive bike. You mention Pashnit which I visit also. The site owner tours on a heck of a sportsbike > Busa. Give it a thought before spending lots of money chasing something you may still not like in the future.

Demonshea, I don't think you're drunk. I think what you're describing as a lack of low end torque is something different. You wrote:

having the RPMs hovering at 4000 in second opposed to my old bandit 12s which ran about 6500 RPM in second. That's number one. Can I drop my front sprocket by one tooth to add some low end? How much will the high end be affected?

Click to expand...

What you're really saying is that the 1250 doesn't have as much power at 4000 rpm as the 1200 had at 6500. I can believe that. That's not a "low-end" power issue, that's mid-range to upper rpm. And it's directly related to gearing.


Twist has a good thought with the 650 seat. I'm actually trying one on my 1250 right now. Many people seem to think it's more comfortable than the stock 1250 seat as well as being lower. I think it's going to be too low for me and my aging knees, so it might be for sale soon.

demensha,
I ran into you last year at a deli prior to Monitor Pass; parked my black 1250 next to your (new to you) red Bandita.....

I'm a short guy, and simply taking an electric carving knife to my seat foam and shaping it to my liking, not only got me lower to the ground but increased my level of comfort on the seat.

I haven't had any complaints about low-end grunt (even though I came from a 130 hp first gen' FZ1), but two simple modifications can totally change the character of your Bandit's power delivery:
1) A one inch hole in your air box lid, combined with a K&N, and free breathing slip-on muffler.
2) I absolutely LOVE what dropping a tooth at my counter-sprocket did for my bike.... (Fork brace and -1 counter-sprocket, two best things I've done to my bike.)

Lowering links work..... poorly.
The only rider who should consider longer links, is a feather-weight (they will make of your rear spring, a soggy soft mess), somebody who doesn't care to ride in a spirited fashion (stuff will drag), and a closet Harley rider who wants to make of their Sport-Touring machine, a lazy & slow steering "cruiser".

Dave Moss is DA MAN!
If you wanna improve your ride, change out the front springs and add a fork brace. Dave would be the man to go to BEFORE you decided to do anything! His tiny shop does more than just suspension, so have him take a look at your sag, ask his opinion about the front springs, then order a -1 counter-sprocket from him as well as springs.... then have him do the work for you. He put a lot of time & effort into correcting the front-end of my SV650, got my sag right, and didn't charge me as much as he could have (given the amount of work he did for me). I also went back to him to have my rear shock (Cogent Dynamics) serviced after it had over 20,000 miles on it.

I'm 5' 1" and had the internals lowered on my FZ1's suspension. Though it got me lower, and it is THE ONLY WAY TO LOWER A BIKE CORRECTLY, the comfort of my ride was compromised.
If I were you (and had your money ), I'd make an appointment with Corbin and ride down to visit them for a custom seat. The Holeshot seat is lower than factory, but ya gets what ya gets..... Those of us who live on the left coast can make an appointment with them and have your seat custom tailored to YOUR liking.

whitesands said:

I lightened the pre load on mine one notch and it made a huge difference for me...I'm about 170 lbs with everything on and about 5'8...Could touch the ground easier, made the bike more stable, turned better, made the seating position flatter, and absorbed bumps better..Just better all around as the sag was probably more in line with being correct for my stature..

Click to expand...

Did you drop it from the factory setting of "4" to "3" or!?

Fittysom'n said:

demensha,
1) A one inch hole in your air box lid, combined with a K&N, and free breathing slip-on muffler.

Click to expand...

You didn't mention if you did this with or without changing the fueling ie stock computer, etc!?

BlueStreak said:

What you're really saying is that the 1250 doesn't have as much power at 4000 rpm as the 1200 had at 6500. I can believe that. That's not a "low-end" power issue, that's mid-range to upper rpm. And it's directly related to gearing.

Click to expand...

So, I guess I am not good at explaining this and seem to be using the wrong terms. I wish i knew more about the mechanics of the machine, so I could speak more clearly to what i am experiencing. I believe you might be right in your assessment.

What i am trying to explain is the new Bandit runs at lower RPMs period. In 6th gear on a highway it stays around 4500 when i am traveling at 85mph. My old Bandit in 5th gear (there is no 6th) runs much higher more like 5500-6000RPMs at the same speed. When I run the twisties, the new bandit is at 4000 in second when the old one on the same roads is running at 6000+. It feels different. Maybe I don't yet understand the dynamics of the new one or how it feels. That's the only way i can describe it. It feels like i have less umph in 2nd then my old one. Sheesh...sorry, i don't know how else to describe this.

The old "hooligan" bandit felt more hooliganish, not that I need the prompting.

I want this bike to work for me. It's a good runner, looks awesome, has everything i need for touring, carries enough fuel to get me across the desolate places i ride and when not doing slow speed maneuvers, is agile and easy to ride. At slow speed and wheeling it around the garage, it's freakin' heavy and I can't get it on the center stand for the life of me. Those are my problems, that i need to work out for me, i guess.

The seat...i just found this one and I am going to pick it up tomorrow. If it doesn't work for me, I'll resell it, but one inch lower is huge imo. I know it will definitely help my confidence to be near flat footing this bike.

I thank all of you for your thoughts and for straightening me up in what i thought was low end power loss.

Fittysom'n, thanks for your thoughts. I do remember meeting you in Markleeville. I was soooo stoked to have a new Bandit! I just gotta iron out my concerns. My husband has a firs gen FZ1 and i have ridden it, but not since i got this new bandit. I should to compare them again. Thanks for your thoughts. I will make an appointment with Dave Moss. I don't wanna mess with the factory setting of the suspension without a pro doing it. I won't adjust anything on my own.

I should sell my old one, but with all those miles, I won't get what it's worth. It still looks awesome and i know would kick bottom for someone. Last year I was gonna sell it, but the only person that looked at it was some squid kid and there was no way i was gonna sell to him. It needs a riders respect!!


Thanks again!

Oh ya, a friend of mine sent me this link of some thoughts on the Bandit. Most of them rate it fairly high and support what you are saying about the torque.

Sounds like you do want the rpms to be higher so changing the sprockets will change that to what you want but like people mentioned it will make it more buzzy on the highway, etc because of the higher rpms, etc. Good catch on the seat! Took me months to find a used Sargent for my bike for a decent price!

A trick for getting it on your centerstand:

First, if you're not already doing so, remove the bags and top box. Every pound you take off the rear will make it easier to lift. If that doesn't do it:

Cut ( or get someone to cut) a couple of pieces of 1/2 inch plywood. One piece about 8' wide by a foot long, the second 8" by 8" (approximately--exact measurements aren't critical). Nail or glue the two pieces together so you've create a step ___===. Home depot will cut plywood for a modest fee. They may already have scraps of about the right size you can take.

When you want to put the bike on the center stand, ride slowly up the step so the rear tire is on the 1" high piece of wood. Given your apparently diminutive stature, you might want a little assistance. Be careful getting off the bike, as it will lean much further onto the side stand than usual.

If riding the bike up is too difficult, another approach is to push from the right side of the bike, at the rear, so the rear tire comes up off the ground, and the bike is supported on the front tire and side stand. Then slide the pieces of wood under the rear wheel. If this technique works better, you don't need a step, and a single piece of 3/4" plywood might work for you.

Now try putting it on the center stand. By "pre-lifting" the rear of the bike an inch, you should find it much easier to lift the rest of the way..

Tazman2 said:

Sounds like you do want the rpms to be higher so changing the sprockets will change that to what you want but like people mentioned it will make it more buzzy on the highway, etc because of the higher rpms, etc.

Click to expand...

+1 on changing the sprocket -- drop the front 1 or up the back 3-4 and I bet you'll be happy. Sounds like the bike is just geared a little higher than you want on your local roads.

As for the buzziness... if you're used to the 1200 at 6k+ on the highway, I don't think 5k+ on the counterbalanced 1250 is going to seem 'buzzy' at all.

It's a cheap experiment, $15 gets you a new front sprocket to try out. Hopefully it'll be just what you're looking for, if not -- sell it on here for 90% of what you paid.

trey

Here's why I think your problem is gearing, the 1250 has considerably more torque down low...

1200:


1250:


Both charts are off Holeshot's website, both comparing stock to a 'Stage 1' tune.

The 1250 makes more torque at 3k RPM stock than the 1200 ever does even with the 'Stage 1' kit.

trey

Tazman2,
The beauty of doing the simple 1" hole and slip-on, is that it doesn't need any remapping. BUT I really should qualify that I did this mod initially without a K&N air filter in place, so..... maybe I shouldn't have included the K&N in my suggestion.

demenshea,
So YOUR the person who bought that seat?!? It was located within a half hour from where I live, and when I called about it he said that he had already sold it to somebody on the TWT site. But he also confirmed what I suspected when studying the images of Dale's seat design (with Corbin's help). Us really short people with a 24" inseam need a really really narrow saddle at the narrowest part of the bike/frame/engine, and that Holeshot Corbin looks look.... but too far back for my little legs to reach the ground from.