Two wheeled conundrum

[poser]

Since the wreck I've decided to take a [hopefully] short break from riding street. Which makes my wife very happy. Once I'm confident I have the fizzy sorted out, I'm going to look for her a new home.
Which brings me to my dirt bike. Don't worry I'm not giving it up, but I'm thinking about making a change in that dept. [I have a lot of time on my hands these days :lol2:]

To say I love my KTM 250 sxf, would be an understatement, but I am considering upgrading her to something with a button. My initial thoughts are either the xc electric start version of the same bike. However I find myself drawn to the world of 2smoke, specifically the KTM 300xc. In 2008 the magic button was an option, but those are really hard to find. The cool thing is, if you find a kick start only version, the magic button is a KTM hard parts kit and a battery away.

My last trip to ride dirt was in the Hill Country, and I found myself kicking it A LOT :lol2:. I gotta admit, there was more than once, I was wishing for a button.

So, do I take the money from the sale of the fizzy, and add maybe a steering damper and/or rekluse to my current Katoom? Or do I sell both and pick up a KTM 300xc and add the button?
I'm so confused :ponder:

[DFW_Warrior]

I can tell you that with the Rekluse you don't stall or have flame outs near as often as with a regular clutch. And this coming from a YZ250 in some really tight single track. Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever stalled it at all. If this helps, once you get healed up some we can meet up and swap bikes for a few hours. Then you get to see the two stroke world as well as the Rekluse clutch.

[WoodButcher]

Since the wreck I've decided to take a [hopefully] short break from riding street. Which makes my wife very happy. Once I'm confident I have the fizzy sorted out, I'm going to look for her a new home.

I assuming you mean the bike is going to a new home:rofl:

Yes, the magic buttons are nice. Unfortunately I learned on a bike with one so I ended up being very cautious in tight stuff because I knew I could restart it easily when I got stuck so I didn't always hit obstacles hard enough to make them the first time. You are way past that so it won't be an issue. Those KTM 300's are nice bikes. I have several friends with them and they love them.

[gixxerjasen]

Kicking is punishment for not riding at a high enough level. If you continue to kick you will learn to ride better, if you have the button then you won't learn from your mistakes. At least, that's how I look at it. :D

Personally, the 300's are nice, but they only beat your bike in wide open runs. If you lived in the desert or something I think I could see it, but that bike you have is an excellent woods bike and I don't think you'd be any faster on a 300 on the trails. Remember that one of the good things about 2 smokes is how light they are. No sense in killing that with a heavy battery! :D

So, my take is this. Park the fizzy in the corner of the garage, keep the 250 and give her some love in the form of add ons (aforementioned recluse being a good start) and put some hours on her. No need to change, and when you get the feeling back, the fizzy will be there for you.

And don't forget, you can break just as many bones on the trail as you can on the street. Dang trees are fast and deceptive in their movements.

[JasonJ]

if you upgrade your current bike are you still going to lust after the 300?

the answer to that is the answer to what you should do. doesnt seem like you could go wrong with either :rider:.

[poser]

I can tell you that with the Rekluse you don't stall or have flame outs near as often as with a regular clutch. And this coming from a YZ250 in some really tight single track. Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever stalled it at all. If this helps, once you get healed up some we can meet up and swap bikes for a few hours. Then you get to see the two stroke world as well as the Rekluse clutch.

Deal! I've been wanting to make it back up to red river, so maybe this winter the wife and I will come visit family for a long weekend and I'll bring the bike.

if you upgrade your current bike are you still going to lust after the 300?


I don't know if "lust" is the right word, more curious.
My worry is, I'll sell it, get the 300, and regret getting rid of the 250.

[poser]

Remember that one of the good things about 2 smokes is how light they are. No sense in killing that with a heavy battery! :D


true, and on paper, the 300 isn't any lighter than my 250

maybe I can splurge for the 300 kit :ponder: :mrgreen:

[M38A1]

I'll trade you a stripped lower and LPK, sight unseen for the KTM to make your decision easier. :mrgreen:

[gixxerjasen]

My worry is, I'll sell it, get the 300, and regret getting rid of the 250.I bet you would. That's a sweet machine you have there and very very capable.

[poser]

I bet you would. That's a sweet machine you have there and very very capable.

thanks, and its set up well for a fat guy like me. The dude I bought it from dropped some serious coin getting it sprung and valved for his weight [which happens to be my weight :mrgreen:], so i'd be loosing out on that.

[Iceman Jack]

Sale and go with the 300 with a button. Matter fact I'm thinking about redoing my stall and i've got a very unused 300 XC/W that is really sweet.

[Hemibee]

You won't be any faster in the woods on a 300 than you are on the 250. I've got a 450 with the magic button but I now feel like the button wasn't worth it even thou it came that way. A Reklus would be nice if I had the coins to throw down on it.

Come out with us someday and I'll show you a 125 that will be making you think you should down size instead of moving up to a 300. There are a few members here that might agree this 125 is pretty quick. When he was racing he raced it in the 250 class and surprized a lot of the 250 riders, especially the ones that thought they were going to run away from him.

[SilverBullet]

Really the 300 two-smoker starts so easy you don't need a magic button. First kick hot or cold and a light kick with a short stroke at that. It is also a very hard bike to stall. Many people strip their '08's or newer and remove the electic start.

_

[gixxerjasen]

Come out with us someday and I'll show you a 125 that will be making you think you should down size instead of moving up to a 300. There are a few members here that might agree this 125 is pretty quick. When he was racing he raced it in the 250 class and surprized a lot of the 250 riders, especially the ones that thought they were going to run away from him.Yea, I'm trying to talk him into one of the KTM 200 2 strokes. So much fun. :rider:

[poser]

I think I may wait and ride a smoker first. For what I'd spend on the upgrade I can add a rekluse EXP and a steering stabilizer :trust:

Yea, I'm trying to talk him into one of the KTM 200 2 strokes. So much fun. :rider:

I'd love one of those too, but they're even harder to find. A little smaller/lighter than the 300, and likely power I'd be able to use.
I really have zero complaints about the power of my 250. it surprises the heck outa me almost every time I ride it, wither it be getting a little sideways or climbing a ridiculous hill at hidden falls.
Maybe a heavier flywheel, but that's it :thumb:

[DFW_Warrior]

I'd love one of those too, but they're even harder to find. A little smaller/lighter than the 300, and likely power I'd be able to use.
I really have zero complaints about the power of my 250. it surprises the heck outa me almost every time I ride it, wither it be getting a little sideways or climbing a ridiculous hill at hidden falls.
Maybe a heavier flywheel, but that's it :thumb:

With regard to the KTM200 I was in the same boat. I didn't need the power of the 300 so I was looking for the 200. The problem was, that any I saw for sale were way out of my price range and I couldn't justify spending that kind of money for one. Then came the YZ that the previous owner spent some serious money on getting it ready for woods racing. If you are looking for a bargain, then get an older Jap two-stroke and throw a little cash into making it a woods bike. And if you look to later CR's or YZ's it gets you the aluminum frame which makes the overall weight even less. I kid you not, compared to my 450 this YZ is like riding a 45hp mountain bike.

Granted, if Iceman Jack has a pretty nice one going up for sale that might just be too hard to pass up. A two-stroke with an e-start and Rekluse is the ultimate cheater bike, but oh so fun in the woods.

[poser]

With regard to the KTM200 I was in the same boat. I didn't need the power of the 300 so I was looking for the 200. The problem was, that any I saw for sale were way out of my price range and I couldn't justify spending that kind of money for one. Then came the YZ that the previous owner spent some serious money on getting it ready for woods racing. If you are looking for a bargain, then get an older Jap two-stroke and throw a little cash into making it a woods bike. And if you look to later CR's or YZ's it gets you the aluminum frame which makes the overall weight even less. I kid you not, compared to my 450 this YZ is like riding a 45hp mountain bike.

Granted, if Iceman Jack has a pretty nice one going up for sale that might just be too hard to pass up. A two-stroke with an e-start and Rekluse is the ultimate cheater bike, but oh so fun in the woods.

if 2-strokes are as easy to kick as everyone says they are the button may not be an issue. And yeah, I don't need the power of the 300, heck I can't even ride my 250 4-stroke to its potential

I'll have to keep my eyes open for something Jap, but I bleed orange much like you bleed blue :rofl:

The rekluse EXT looks like a nice upgrade to any bike and isn't to bad priced either

[Hemibee]

2 smokes are that easy to start.


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[KenH]

Maybe take a few weekends to meet up with others who will let you try their bikes? The time would be a good trade for future grin factor, unless, of course, you happen to win the lottery and can then afford one of everything.

[DFW_Warrior]

if 2-strokes are as easy to kick as everyone says they are the button may not be an issue. And yeah, I don't need the power of the 300, heck I can't even ride my 250 4-stroke to its potential

I'll have to keep my eyes open for something Jap, but I bleed orange much like you bleed blue :rofl:

:-)Now now... I looked for a KTM as well, but my bike came up and it was just what I was looking for. My choices were limited to...CR or YZ250 with woods mods; or a KTM200,250, or lastly the 300. The Yamaha just happened along first.

From what I've seen so far, I would exactly say that at least my YZ is easier to start just different. My 450 will start with ease as long as I follow the typical 4-stroke procedure. The YZ even though I get her up to TDC for the kick, because the dang thing fires on every stroke I'm hitting the next TDC before I'm done kicking. As long as I open the throttle it lights right up, but when I forget and revert back into thumper mode that kick starter stops cold when it hits the second TDC.

[KenH]

My Maico 501 was much easier to kick than my 441 Victor.

My Yamaha 360 was much easier to kick than my XL350 or 350 Sprint.

My CR250 was much easier to kick than my XL250.

My CR125 was much easier to kick than my SL125.

I'd have to agree that kicking a 2-stroke is easier than kicking a 4-stroke of similar displacement.

[gixxerjasen]

They are pretty darn easy to start.

Oh wait, unless you stupidly get stuck in the mud and stall it. Trying to get solid footing with your steady foot while you kick is nearly impossible.

Oh wait, unless you have stupid short legs too...that never helps, especially in the aforementioned soft mud.

Oh wait, your friends can help, but they usually won't offer any help until they've recorded this fantastic moment for eternity.

http://www.leanangle.com/pictures/ktmtalk/stuckinmud.jpg

[poser]

Tell me about it, I've been stuck trying to kick in mud/water over the pegs more times than I care to count. The hardest part was finding neutral. Lucky for me I'm pretty long legged, and usually the one with the camera :lol2:

[poser]

In chatting with Bill about 2-strokes, I think I may have come to realize something.
My riding style, while likely incorrect, lends itself more to 4-stroke than 2-stroke. I tend not to use brakes as much but down shift and rely on engine baking, and only feather the clutch a little, let it lug a bit, and then give her heck.

[Hemibee]

Yup, sounds more like a 4 stroke rider and a smoker.


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[DFW_Warrior]

You know I forgot to mention the engine braking thing so I'm glad you brought it up. Take this with a grain of salt because I've never ridden a 250cc modern thumper before, but coming off my 450 onto the YZ there was a huge different in engine braking. I was the same as you, (which I don't believe is the wrong way to ride, just using the bike how it was designed) I rode in 2nd or 3rd through the tight stuff and hardly ever used the brakes but let the motor slow me down. Going to the YZ if I had to put a number to it, I'd say probably 30% of the engine braking of the 450 at best. Is this a bad thing, no not really. It took me about two rides to really get used to it and then it was like second nature. Once the heat breaks I'm planning on getting back out almost every weekend I can so I can continue to get used to it.

Oh but with the Rekluse in it... go into a corner hot, jam the back brake on, then let her rip all without touching the clutch. That thing is magic in the woods and I'm now a firm believer that once you ride with one for awhile, you'll never go back. But the best part about the clutch so far is the ease of 0 mph wheelies. Pointed the wrong way on a trail, no problem just blip the throttle and the bike stands up on the rear wheel and you just set it down where you want it to be. It can be done on my 450 with the standard clutch, but it's nowhere near as painless as it is with the Rekluse.

[woodsguy]

My Maico 501 was much easier to kick than my 441 Victor.

My Yamaha 360 was much easier to kick than my XL350 or 350 Sprint.

My CR250 was much easier to kick than my XL250.

My CR125 was much easier to kick than my SL125.

I'd have to agree that kicking a 2-stroke is easier than kicking a 4-stroke of similar displacement.

I've been riding since 1967 and have owned over 70 bikes, mostly dirtbikes and what I've found is:

My new KTM 530 starts easier with the button! lol I ain't going back to a kicker.

[Hemibee]

My new KTM 530 starts easier with the button! lol I ain't going back to a kicker.

:lol2:


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[poser]

I've been riding since 1967 and have owned over 70 bikes, mostly dirtbikes and what I've found is:

My new KTM 530 starts easier with the button! lol I ain't going back to a kicker.

good point :lol2:

[poser]

In looking around, I've found a few 4-stroke 250s with electric start that I like.
I also found a few 200cc 2-strokes that I like [after reading a bit about them on KTMtalk.com, I really think I'd be happy with one]. Problem is, the 200s don't have electric start nor is there anyway to add it. Though I'm sure its an uber easy bike to kick.
If I go up to the 250xc or 300xc 2-stroke in a 2008 or new, the button can be added.

The doc says I'll be good as new eventually, but I have this sinking feeling the ol hip is going to be tender if I have to kick start a lot.
And restarts are just part of the way I ride, and not just stalling, but riding as a group and waiting on the rest of the riders to catch up, just taking a break, shooting the breeze, or deciding which way to go.

[KenH]

Then the obvious solution is a 250 or 300 2-stroke. Have fun.

[poser]

Then the obvious solution is a 250 or 300 2-stroke. Have fun.

I think you're right.

Here's where I'm at [I've been thinking about this the past few days]:
I really like the idea of the 200 two-stroke. I can get the 250 in e-start, which having a 12v system would make eventually plating it much easier.

Also, I want to put a rekluse on what ever I get. The new Rekluse EXP is getting great reviews, and its a great price. You can get them for $380 a lot of places. The unfortunate thing is, they currently do not have the EXP for the 200, just the 250. That means I've got to go to the z-start pro for the 200. Not a big problem, tried and true, you know this one works and lasts. The down side is the cost, about $600, noticeably more than the EXP.

Then there's the 4-stroke, I know what to expect, and I know I'd love it.

Whatever I get, I think I would like to get it plated, just for being able to run the forest roads when riding SHNF, and possibly hauling it out to Big Bend.
The 250 two-stroke with the e-start would be a MUCH easier transition to street legal. Same for the four-stroke.

But I've got a lot of time to think about it :lol2:, and I'll likely change my mind a dozen times or so :rofl:

[gixxerjasen]

I can't remember, but haven't the EXC's XCW's or whatever they are called now, come street legal straight from the factory? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere.

[DFW_Warrior]

I can't remember, but haven't the EXC's XCW's or whatever they are called now, come street legal straight from the factory? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere.

I don't think this is true for the 2-strokes though.

[gixxerjasen]

Oh yea, don't they have to be less than 50cc for that? I remember when Aprilia was selling their 49cc street bike here and I think that was the case.

[ed29]

In chatting with Bill about 2-strokes, I think I may have come to realize something.
My riding style, while likely incorrect, lends itself more to 4-stroke than 2-stroke. I tend not to use brakes as much but down shift and rely on engine baking, and only feather the clutch a little, let it lug a bit, and then give her heck.

What you learn on first is your baseline. I came the other way through the process, from a 200cc smoker to a 450 thumper. Can't remember how many times I snapped the throttle all the way shut when I should not have until I got accustomed to the engine braking. Some of those snaps were at the lip of a jump or in mid air, resulting in some pretty scary nose down moments until landing.

Long story short, sounds like you ride your thumper right for what it is, You will adjust to a smoker and have a blast on it too.

[poser]

Oh yea, don't they have to be less than 50cc for that? I remember when Aprilia was selling their 49cc street bike here and I think that was the case.

nah, anything can be plated in TX :trust:

[poser]

What you learn on first is your baseline. I came the other way through the process, from a 200cc smoker to a 450 thumper. Can't remember how many times I snapped the throttle all the way shut when I should not have until I got accustomed to the engine braking. Some of those snaps were at the lip of a jump or in mid air, resulting in some pretty scary nose down moments until landing.

Long story short, sounds like you ride your thumper right for what it is, You will adjust to a smoker and have a blast on it too.

You're right, heck just going from my old XR400 to my KTM 250 was a big learning curve, and I had to relearn a lot of stuff. It's the unknown that concerns me, we're always afraid of what we don't know. Though I suppose even if I jumped in and bought a 2-stroke, I could resell it if I was unhappy for hopefully minimal loss.

[gixxerjasen]

What you learn on first is your baseline. I came the other way through the process, from a 200cc smoker to a 450 thumper. Can't remember how many times I snapped the throttle all the way shut when I should not have until I got accustomed to the engine braking. Some of those snaps were at the lip of a jump or in mid air, resulting in some pretty scary nose down moments until landing.Oooh yea. My new clutch cable lost the ball end on my second ride. While the 250EXC was down waiting on Motion Pro to send me a free replacement, I went riding and my friend loaned me his KTM LC4 400. I snapped the throttle closed on a steep downhill descent. You can figure out how that one ended. :rofl:

nah, anything can be plated in TX :trust:I meant plated straight out of the box, but yea, I get ya. I'd love to plate my 250 but I would have to spend what it's worth to get it legal.

[poser]

I meant plated straight out of the box, but yea, I get ya. I'd love to plate my 250 but I would have to spend what it's worth to get it legal.

Yeah yours would need to come a long way, all them more reason for me to look for one with a button.
Imagine how fun your bike would be as a street legal motard :trust:

[KenH]

The old 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke debate continues to rage. They are different, but each has lessons to teach. You'll be a better rider by learning both.

[gixxerjasen]

Imagine how fun your bike would be as a street legal motard :trust:Actually I don't really think it'd be all that much fun. Even though KTM 2 strokes have more of a broad powerband than most 2 strokes do, it's still peaky and wouldn't top out very fast, so at least for around here, not very fun. I'm still wanting another DRZSM again. Dang Doug and DancesWithCurves and their DRZSM's. :rofl:

My only reason for plating would be to do some of the big bend events or take it to Colorado where you sometimes have to hit the roads in places.

[SilverBullet]

Here is an interesting one, not sure if E start or not though. worth a call to find out.

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/2636429889.html

GasGas Pampera. MUST SELL BEFORE SATURDAY - $2000 (Spring )
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Date: 2011-10-06, 6:18PM CDT
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Like new 2007 Gas Gas Pampera 280 2 stroke. Less than 100 hours ridden. Sat in storage for 2 years,recently flushed brakes,cleaned carburetor,re installed OEM DOT approved dual sport tires. Wiring pre installed for dual sport equipping. Headlights with high lo beams,brake light,wiring for turn signals just needs a battery. Factory equipped staring column lock. Aftermarket brush guards and racing grips. Near mint condition. Garage stored for 2 years. TITLE IN HAND! Don't let this one get away call before its too late! Make me an offer!! NO TRADES

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