What do think is a safe separation distance/time?

[cruisin]

Poll is set up for number of seconds based on 70mph speeds in normal conditions; ie: no rain, gravel, mud, and relatively good pavement on two or four lane roads with moderate traffic flow. I realize that not every road and every condition are identical or even close, but as a general rule-of-thumb :thumb: what do you all consider a safe following distance with other bikes in your own group (not cages) in terms of seconds?

I'd really like to hear your thoughts and reasoning behind "your" personal comfort level. Not trying to start a debate, just interested what others see as safe distances and why. :scott:

[budzrex]

Man that really depends on the group, although it really shouldnt as we should all leave a good margin for the unknown. But I ride differently with different groups, it has no bearing on the type of bike but rather the time I have spent riding with the other riders and my comfort level with them at speed. I have ridden at elbow rubbing distance with some guys(anyone that knows ZRX24 from Austin would understand) and others I prefer not to be within several bike lengths to allow for braking or other habits.

[STrider]

+1. There's folks I'm comfortable riding with at "up close & personal" distances, and others for whom riding in the same state is a bit too close. For the situation described, I generally go about 2 seconds behind the person straight in front, 1 sec behind the stagger in front.

[Jesse H]

I like 4...but I'm really paranoid about that stuff. In Houston I'm lucky if the guy is 1 second off my butt.

[Photojojo]

I'll go 2 for the most part. There are some people who I would hold hands with and there are others that make me want to exit and ride a different road. :nono:

[P-Ratt]

1.5-2 is the minimum, and I do a lot in that range. But if I can get 3 out of a situation, I prefer that.

[txbanditrydr]

Two seconds is the rule in defensive driving (dayme me for knowing that) so I try to follow that. Although 1 second with someone I know in a staggered formation doesn't seem that close... I will check up out of courtesy regardless.

[kocook]

The reason for measuring separation in seconds is so that you do not have to change your rule to adjust for speed it. Since the separation is for reaction time, is always the same regardless of speed. Reaction time has been indicated to be between 1.5 to 2.0 seconds for most folks. I use 3 seconds as a general rule, but have to confess to breaking the rule.

However, if you are looking ahead to assess what is going on in front and to the side of the vehicles ahead of you, then you should be reacting at the same time as the them. So separation is for the unforeseen, and we are back to reaction time.

Of course, it assumes you have equal braking power and skill as the rider / driver you are following.

Now when it comes to what I would like when a car or truck is following me, about 5 minutes works out quite well.

[Teeds]

Two is what the classes teach. If you ride in staggered rows that is cut to one for the bike in the other row.

I have yet to figure out what is best in dealing with cages. I don't ride on the street often, so I am still uncomfortable with the sensations of having them around me.

[Mark G]

Kent says it best so far.

I'll repeat what I've said before, the stagger system is dangerous, in my opinion. You're too close to the other riders if you're at one second; you're too close to the center line if you're riding that part; if you're riding close to the verge, the rider in front of you is a great visual shield for the oncoming car that turns left into you as soon as the leading rider passes him; and of course if you're out in the twisty country, riding with spirit, you're following a line, not riding a stagger.

I personally don't ride stagger in a group...I ride drag, partly because of the pace I ride, partly to be able to keep a three second space, and ride in the part of the lane that's safest at the instant...away from the line with oncoming traffic, away from the verge when there's no one approaching, so the rottenwilder hiding behind the bush up ahead has to lunge further.

I didn't make this plan up, by the way, it's standard procedure in Oz, I understand...read it in a mag, made sense, and of course, if Kent sez 3 seconds, then 3 seconds it is.

[cruisin]

Wow, there has been some really good points made all around in this thread. Now that is has run a few weeks, I'd liketo share with you the motivation behind it in addition to the first post. Around the first part of December a rider on another discussion board I used to frequent, claimed he has been riding two bike lengths from other bikes for over 45 years without even a close call. I challenged that logic/brag/BS saying that two bike lengths only equated to about 14 feet. At 70 mph that is 0.13 seconds. I don't honestly believe anyone has the reaction time or raw ability to deal with that for 45 years without a close call. Unfortunately the rest of the 8000+ members of the other website were afraid to speak up on an issue that they knew was wrong. I typically question things like that for a couple of reasons; one is because I get sort of irritated at just total BS statements. Second, and most importantly, is that there are so many newbies out there who may believe the BS and try to emulate what the other guy is obviously lying about. In the end, that could very well lead to the demise of a new rider, believing that it is perfectly safe to follow other bikes in "spirited riding" (the other guys words) with only 14 feet of separation distance.

I really like what some of you have said about 2 to 3 sec. distances and personally feel that to be an acceptable standard. Also agree that staggered formation can lead to problems if practiced anywhere other than on large roads with plenty of room for maneuvering. Even then, 2 sec. is my comfort level. On smaller two-lane roads I don't feel comfortable with less than 3 sec. and prefer 4 or 5 while not even considering staggerd formation on such roads. Please don't get me wrong here, I am not trying to portray myself as any kind of expert on motorcycle safety, but 239K lefetime miles without an accident on the street, does have some merit.

Anyway, just wanted to share some of my thoughts after letting this run its course for a few days.

great discussion! :thumb:

[Tourmeister]

:tab I can't recall how I voted, however during some recent riding, I started paying attention to my following distance and I think I generally gravitate to about 3-4 seconds at 70mph without even consciously doing it. I only worry about being staggered on straights. In corners, I take the line that is best for me.

but 239K lefetime miles without an accident on the street, does have some merit.

:tab And shows that you are not only skilled, but lucky! Anyone riding that long in East Texas that has not hit or been hit by a deer is doing pretty good :lol2: I am a firm believer in active defense when it comes to riding. Nonetheless, even the most skilled and observant rider is not immune from just bad luck. I think birds are the most likely thing to get you in the case where all your skills are for naught. I had an Owl hit me at 70mph. He came out of the tree next to the road in a full dive and hit me square in the chest. I barely even had time to notice it pass through my line of sight before it hit. Fortunately, it was small and only bruised my chest and did not knock me off the bike. I just recently had a close call with a turkey buzzard. Again, this one came up out of the woods from behind a tree right next to the edge of the road. I was not going very fast as I was on dirt at the time. He flapped once and that put him right smack in front of me in the space of a heartbeat. I had enough time to start braking and duck slightly before the impact and he glanced off my windscreen and helmet. I commend you on your record thus far, but remember,past performance is no quarantee of future performance ;-) At least that is what my financial advisor keeps telling me :wary:

[cruisin]

. . . I think birds are the most likely thing to get you in the case where all your skills are for naught. I had an Owl hit me at 70mph. He came out of the tree next to the road in a full dive and hit me square in the chest. I barely even had time to notice it pass through my line of sight before it hit. Fortunately, it was small and only bruised my chest and did not knock me off the bike. I just recently had a close call with a turkey buzzard. Again, this one came up out of the woods from behind a tree right next to the edge of the road. I was not going very fast as I was on dirt at the time. He flapped once and that put him right smack in front of me in the space of a heartbeat.

Sounds like your experience is much like mine with the "Wylie Turdey" (http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4956&highlight=turkey) a while back.

. . . I commend you on your record thus far, but remember,past performance is no quarantee of future performance ;-) At least that is what my financial advisor keeps telling me :wary:

Yeah I hear ya; that's why I continue to re-read David Hough's books then go out and practice on a regular basis. Just yeaterday, I did about 20 minutes in the parking lot at the marina. Practiced slow, tight figure-eights and emergency stops, then went out on the hiway and did some quick obstacle avoidance maneuvers.

[DaveC]

I get as far ahead of them as I can or let them head on. Is this in relation to cages? :rider:

[cruisin]

I get as far ahead of them as I can or let them head on. Is this in relation to cages? :rider:

Actually--no--it's in relation to other bikes in your own group.:pirate:

per original question:
Poll is set up for number of seconds based on 70mph speeds in normal conditions; ie: no rain, gravel, mud, and relatively good pavement on two or four lane roads with moderate traffic flow. I realize that not every road and every condition are identical or even close, but as a general rule-of-thumb what do you all consider a safe following distance with other bikes in your own group (not cages) in terms of seconds?

[Tourmeister]

The David Hough books make great throne room reading :trust:

[BrutusTx]

For me, mostly 4 seconds rarely 2. Just works for me, I'm usually riding with new people on new roads and I don't like surprises.

[howellak]

Two to three seconds works for me. Unless they put them little taillights and blinkers on their scoot then I like it a little longer. I'm not real crazy about being in the middle of a staggered formation with say over eight bikes. People just look closer than they are in my mirrors.

[thestudent]

I agree that you shouldn't ride in formation into/during corners/curves. I will only ride staggered on staights.

[Mr Ed]

I don't like the regimented groups that try to enforce the staggered formation and positioning. I feel each rider should have space to think and react for him/herself.

However, it's very difficult to hold much of a following distance when the group is being held up by slower traffic. Then it seems only natural to go into a staggered formation. Why would you want to follow directly behind the bike in front of you when you can give yourself an advantage by moving over?

When moving along at a fun riding clip, I prefer to open it up and relax. A minimum of three seconds is enjoyable. Like Bud said, there are three or four people that I'm comfortable riding very close to.

The question seemed to address other vehicular traffic as well. I try to maintain a 3-second distance behind 4-wheelers. They can straddle things that we must dodge, and when something pops out from under the car in front of you at 70mph, you really need some time to react.

[thestudent]

I agree about needing more time behind cages b/c of unforseen things they straddle in the road. While we're at it....I will not follow a semi or even a pickup truck with stuff in its bed, period.