White Balance

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

Yesterday I shot the Austin Beer Mile fun run. The event was held about 4pm for an hour or so under bright cloudless sky, lowish afternoon sun, yellow hues. The actual place where I was shooting was under a fairly heavy tree canopy but sunlight poked through in places.

D700 on Aperture mode, ISO800, f/5ish for most and a floating shutter speed.

I had my WB set to A, and in the past it's done quite well in these situations. But yesterday everything came out cold with the blue hue. I had to go in and manually change them all from what showed as 5200 up to around 7000 to warm them back up again.

Any idea why that might have happened? I suppose I could go back and reshoot the same area this afternoon without people and see what happens. Weird.

What do you guys do for WB? Let it ride in Automatic mode all the time?

.

tricepilot · Nov 25, 2012

Shoot in RAW and/or use one of these:

Tracker · Nov 25, 2012

one of those things I keep thinking, "You need to study up and get that concept down." yet I still just shoot in Auto and hope for the best and add it to steps of PP. There are times when I wanted to capture a shade/color, e.g. golden hour, that I think doing a white balance correction would have helped capture the hue. Sometimes PP just doesn't quite do it, either.

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

Bob, I only shoot raw, so it was fairly easy to change. But I can't figure out why they were so cold to begin with.

I need to check the raw images sooc and look. Maybe I've accidentally created a preset upon import to LR?

Duke · Nov 25, 2012

Were you using Matrix, Spot or that other metering mode?

The white balance is a product of the metering mode, I think.

Were you in Spot mode? Could it have been metering off a shirt in one shot, then a face on another shot?

tricepilot · Nov 25, 2012

Now I'm getting this since I saw your other thread.

So you were a little, ahem, toodled shall we say, when you shot your pics? :giveup:

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

All the D700 24-70 were pretty much like this: (The MAJORITY of the shots)
Camera Maker: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model: NIKON D700
Lens: 70.0-200.0 mm f/2.8
Image Date: 2012-11-24 17:20:18 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 70mm
Aperture: f/5.0
Exposure Time: 0.0031 s (1/320)
ISO equiv: 800
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No

And the D90 24-70 like this:
Camera Maker: NIKON CORPORATION
Camera Model: NIKON D90
Lens: 24.0-70.0 mm f/2.8
Image Date: 2012-11-24 16:54:37 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 24mm
Aperture: f/6.7
Exposure Time: 0.011 s (1/90)
ISO equiv: 640
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Center Weight
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No

I went back and looked at the RAW files in Irfanview and they are really cold. So that sort of rules out the preset upon import into LR. :ponder:

.

tim_cannon · Nov 25, 2012

WB is something that I don't really understand. I am in the same place as Tracker:

one of those things I keep thinking, "You need to study up and get that concept down."

After your post today, I found several blogs, articles, posts that mention the auto setting usually gets WB wrong in the shade. Most said that you should use the "Shade" setting.

One article mentioned that the worst thing about auto is that it's not completely wrong. If you have never looked for anything else, it looks pretty good (this is the category that I am in).

I also talked my son into a quick test, and I think I agree about auto vs. shade settings.

In both photos he is on the shady side of the tree with a silver reflector shining in his face (he almost quit when that light hit him).

Auto WB

Shade WB (house with shadow icon)

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

Here's one straight out of the camera as shot RAW, then imported with no presets I can find. LR shows it to be a 5100K image, typical of the entire batch of shots from both cameras set on Auto for WB.

Then here's that same image run up to 7000K in LR (and a slight crop in post). Considerably more like the eye saw it.

Last year was almost identical conditions. Same time, same time of year, same sunlight/shade and I had zero issues. So I'm now wondering if I set something up in the camera accidentally, but I would have had to do it to both cameras, right?

.

dutchinterceptor · Nov 25, 2012

You might consider using an 18% grey card if you aren't already. Here are a couple of videos that might give you some helpful info especially if you are using Lightroom.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxJSpxh_r90&feature=related"]Grey Card - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgDhli1RZb4&lr=1"]Expanded Tutorial: Using Lightroom with the Data Color SpyderCube - YouTube[/ame]

Tracker · Nov 25, 2012

anytime I shoot under a lot of trees, it's more "blue".

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

I understand the concept of the gray card. So if I used that on the first shots of the area, that would allow me to adjust everything later in post, right?

And I'm stumped on the cube thing. Is that like a gray card you have to take everywhere just like the gray card? I like the idea of once setup it's easy to apply the preset.

But how do you get this all right in a dynamic environment shooting in differing directions, ie: sunlight/shade differences? That's what I struggle with right now.

DFW_Warrior · Nov 25, 2012

M38A1 said:
But how do you get this all right in a dynamic environment shooting in differing directions, ie: sunlight/shade differences? That's what I struggle with right now.

That is what I have been struggling with as well. I've been reading books by McNally and he is amazing with just being able to look at a scene and know that he wants "x" for white balance and then two layers of CTO on his flash and it looks brilliant. But I guess that is why he is the man when it comes to photography.

tim_cannon · Nov 25, 2012

So...
More reading.
More examining of EXIF data.

the D700 is:
Metering Mode: Matrix

The D90 is:
Metering Mode: Center Weight

I would imagine that the output of the light meter is a variable in the algorithm of auto WB.
Based on what I read about Matrix vs. Center, I can see how Center might provide a more accurate result.

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

Hmmm.... The only difference between this year and last year with the D700 setup was metering mode. 2011 I used Center Weighted, 2012 I used Matrix. But my D90 using Center Weighted had the same problems.

Off to go read some more and check my menu's to see if I've done something internally.

DFW_Warrior · Nov 25, 2012

Scott, obviously you need to go back to using the D90 and give me your D700. :trust:

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

At the moment, that's not a bad idea. :doh:

I don't think the images overall came out bad this year. Just not as good as last year, and I had to do a LOT of work to get them that way.

Trail Boss · Nov 25, 2012

Scott,

Shade is normally on the blueish side. Late afternoon sun will be more orange, 6500-7000K. Could it be that your camera compensated for the increased orange of the afternoon sun, which caused everything in the shade to look more blue than it really was?

M38A1 · Nov 25, 2012

Trail Boss said:
Scott,

Shade is normally on the blueish side. Late afternoon sun will be more orange, 6500-7000K. Could it be that your camera compensated for the increased orange of the afternoon sun, which caused everything in the shade to look more blue than it really was?

I'm sure that's what it was in the end.... But I don't recall having this problem last year.

M38A1 · Nov 26, 2012

Hmmmm.... So I just looked at an import of shots from T-giving. ALL shot at 5000K. Didn't matter if it was in the shade or in the sun, they were all fixed at 5000. I think I might have set something inadvertently, but it doesn't explain the second body doing the same thing.

RTScott · Nov 26, 2012

Gray cards are great if you are shooting a static person in a static location but not so good for shooting people where the light conditions are constantly changing like the situation Scott found him in with the runner photos.

Scott, did you check what you camera has as it's default setting for color temp in Auto WB? Perhaps you changed that by accident.

Interesting reading on WB and the D700

And with LR and the ability to reset WB in multiple photos all at once I don't get too worked up about the setting unless I want a certain effect or I know I will be shooting under florescent or tungsten lights all day. The WB problems can be fixed in LR in about a minute.

M38A1 · Nov 26, 2012

Thanks Scott... that was a good little read.

I think I figured it out. Think, but am not 100% sure, but I might have moved the WB function to a specified K number. When I found that, it was coincidentally set at 5000, same as the T-Giving day pics when imported into LR. Quite possible I shot the Beer Mile that way too.

But that doesn't explain why the D90 had the same symptoms and the chances of me doing that to both bodys is zero.

I'll try to shoot some stuff in an hour or so and see if it's the same/different on Auto. But the high clouds are mucking it up to mimic the two prior shoot days.

M38A1 · Dec 2, 2012

Well, I've spent a couple hours reading and poking around and all I can come up with are two things.

1) I had my WB set to A (auto), but I think there's further refined settings which can be programmed and I had that dialed in to a specific K rating.

or

2) When I shoot various WB settings of the same object under the same conditions, even using a specific K rating for some, upon import into LR, LR is doing something to them. For example I can shoot at a specified 6250K but on import it's 5900K. Best I can tell I have no LR presets and I'm importing "as shot". So that's kind of weird.

:ponder:

What I HAVE determined for sure is, shooting with the WB-Cloudy yields a pretty good image compared to A mode with bright blue sky and intermittent white fluffy clouds.

.

M38A1 · Dec 2, 2012

My un-scientific experiment went as follows:

Camera: Nikon D700
Lens: Nikon 50mm f/1.4
Aperture priority: f/11
ISO: 200
Shutter speed: variable 100-250th sec
All shots from tripod and Spot focusing
All shots from the D700 in RAW format, then batch conversion via IrfanView to .jpg. That's it.

Round 1 -
Metering - Matrix

WB: Auto

Incandescent

Florescent

Sun

Flash

Cloudy

Sun w/shade

K = 6250

PREd-0

Round 2 -
Metering - Center Weighted

WB: Auto

Incandescent

Florescent

Sun

Flash

Cloudy

Sun w/shade

K = 6250

PREd-0

Round 3 -
Metering - Spot

WB: Auto

Incandescent

Florescent

Sun

Flash

Cloudy

Sun w/shade

K = 6250

PREd-0

So my take-away from all this is, shoot Matrix mode and Sun or Cloudy for what my eye saw in sun with clouds. And I'm pretty sure I had my WB set to Auto, but with this PREd-0 setting which I've corrected. Still doesn't explain why the D90 did much the same though. :ponder:

Auto

Matrix/Sun

Matrix/Cloudy
Cloudy

.

Duke · Dec 2, 2012

I too am a fan of Matrix and Spot metering modes.

Glad your getting a handle on your WB concerns.

But i have got to ask.. what is up with all the Home Depot sacks? Leaves? Yard scrap?

White Balance

M38A1

tricepilot

0

Tracker

post tenebras lux

M38A1

Duke

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tricepilot

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M38A1

tim_cannon

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M38A1

dutchinterceptor

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Tracker

post tenebras lux

M38A1

DFW_Warrior

Hmmmm.....

tim_cannon

0

M38A1

DFW_Warrior

Hmmmm.....

M38A1

Trail Boss

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M38A1

M38A1

RTScott

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M38A1

M38A1

M38A1

Duke

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