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Track Day Incidents

Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
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Location
Republic of Texas
First Name
Chris
Last Name
Blaschke
So, does anyone have any clue as to why there have been so many crashes at the track day events at TWS? Is this normal?

I receieved an e-mail stating that due to the number of incidents, they are going to have a second ambulance available for the March 12th event.

While this gives me a level of comfort to know the guys running it are taking steps to ensure our safety, it still leaves me with a bit of uneasiness about what I have to look forward to a week from Friday.
Not so much worried about my own abilities, but more concern as to what may happen in front of me.

That said, I have to admit, I can't wait for Thursday after next to roll around. But, I will definitely be looking for open areas of the track to do my riding. Giving the riders in front of me plenty of cushion.
 
TWS

I'd say the reasons TWS needs more ambulance support is A) they have some walls/barriers, 2) it is a higher speed track (than Cresson or Oak Hill, for example), and third) track days usually involve less experienced riders.

I was carted off TWS in an ambulance in an endurance race in 2001. :oops: I was thankful they had an ambulance near my crash (Turn 11, I think). They checked me out and assessed that I did indeed need to go to the hospital. (Severely dislocated right wrist.)

Be careful. Don't target fixate. Be wary of everything going on around you. The rider in front always has the right of way, so hopefully the guy behind you knows that!

FWIW.
 
:tab I think the first track day had issues because the track was cold and people were not allowing for less grip. Also, it was the first trackday of the year and folks may have been a little rusty.

:tab I think the second trackday may have had issues with wet spots on the track. Again, tractions issues seem to have been the problem.

:tab Riding in low traction conditions is difficult. Many riders won't ride at all if it is raining so they have very little experience with low traction situations. Put them on a track where they are wanting to go fast and well... you get the idea.

:tab I would not be that concerned. TWS is a HUGE track and you should easily be able to get yourself all alone out there. When we went out onto the track at the start of each session, I would wait before going out until the last person was all the way over to turn 4 or 5. This would let me run most of the time with no one anywhere near me. If I caught up to those riders, they generally were very easy to get around and then there would be a large space between them and the next group of riders.

:tab Like everyone has said, all you have to worry about is you and what is in front of you. If you stay off the people in front of you, even if they toss it, you should have plenty of time to react and avoid them.

:tab To really get the most out of the day, I highly recommend that you have specific things to work on instead of just going out there and trying to see how fast you can go. Work on things like running good lines, braking smoothly, rolling on the gas through the corners, and most importantly... LOOK WHERE YOU WANT THE BIKE TO GO AND NO WHERE ELSE!! IF you work on those things, you will naturally get faster as a result and feel more comfortable while doing it.

:tab Now quit worrying and go have fun! ;-)

Adios,
 
I think the reason for all the crashes at TWS in Feb were due to several elements.

1. first track day of the year, people forgot some skills

2. SCCA raced the day before and there were some slick spots on the track. They weren't all evident. Turn four had a slick spot if you apexed too wide that got a lot of people. A small slick spot will get you sliding if you are alredy leaned way over and starting to accellerate.

3. The day started our cold. The track was cold. Cold track, cold tires equals butt on ground. That's why I have tire warmers. Just give your tires a few laps to warm up.

4. Squids.

5. Stupid people

I'm excited that there will be two ambulances, because when the ambulance leaves, the track shuts down until it returns. Two ambulances means more uninterrupted track time.

Just ride smart. Don't go over 80%, and you will have the time of your life and you won't crash out. That's the way to be a TRACK DAY JUNKIE. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Turn 4 also has a sealant patch that isn't always visable, that gets slicker than snot with a little water. Sounds like it's close to the same location ... just to the outside and just past the apex of turn 4 ... start to run a little wide and you roll right through it. I've known a couple of people to go down there.

I crashed coming out of turn 1 back last Mother's Day.

To the original poster, most of the accidents that I've seen at TWS are usually one bike accidents ... it's a rider that was riding way over their head (like me), or the unmarked slick spot on the track that someone catches just right. LSTD in particular goes to pretty good ends to make sure everyone out there is being safe, and safety always comes before having fun. I think the last two track days out there have just had some overall bad circumstances.

I absolutely applaud LSTD for stepping up and getting two abulance units on standby for the next track day out there. The car clubs I've ridden with have done that, and they always have more than 1 abulance for a race day. I think this goes to show the level of commitment that LSTD has towards safety. (and no, I don't work for LSTD). Seems like a common sense step to me, but I'm glad they were the first ones to make it.
 
Quick question - does anybody know how insurance companies, generally speaking, treat accidents that occur at a trackday? I don't have my Progressive policy in front of me. My gut tells me that something like that is probably excluded, my hope, however, is that it would be covered. Anybody have any experience with this?
 
Horribilis said:
Quick question - does anybody know how insurance companies, generally speaking, trat accidents that occur at a trackday? I don't have my progressive policy in front of me. My gut tells me that something like that is probably excluded. my hope is that it would be covered. Anybody have any experience with this?

Good question.
 
Horribilis said:
Quick question - does anybody know how insurance companies, generally speaking, treat accidents that occur at a trackday? I don't have my Progressive policy in front of me. My gut tells me that something like that is probably excluded, my hope, however, is that it would be covered. Anybody have any experience with this?

You should check with your particular insurance carrier, as they may not all be the same, but in general since a track day is not a competitive or timed event, you should be covered.

When I wrecked on Mother's Day and totalled my gixxer, State Farm payed full replacement value for the bike. I made sure they understood it was not on the road, but that it happened at TWS, and their response was that since it was a track day (ie. riding school) instead of a competitive event, I was covered. Not only that, they haven't raised my rates since I replaced that bike with my current bike, which really shocked the heck outta me.

The insurance adjuster who came out to the house to look at the bike even commented that she thought more people needed to attend these track days as it improves rider skill on the road.

My gut tells me this is probably a somewhat gray area, and that if your agent doesn't want to cover the expense for some reason, they will find some ground to fight it on. For me, my agent was very aggressive in making sure I got paid for the accident, and I couldn't be happier with the speed it too State Farm to settle.
 
Ditto what Rocket_Cowboy said, most policies only exempt "competitive and/or timed events". So no wrecks at the drag strip.

That said, no one HAS to wreck at a track day. I hate when I hear "It's the price we pay for the sport" or even better "I don't wanna go because I don't want to wreck my bike". Okay, don't

Seriously, you'll be back at that corner every 2.9 miles, so ease your way up to speed. There's no hurry, and not even a $5 trophy at stake.

Also, if you get stuck behind someone who makes you nervous, simply pull into pit row and let them get some distance on you. I've done this many times, as I'm probably too polite at track days when it comes to passing folks.

Guess I'll have to start riding "A" group :oops:

Don't worry, keep your head about you and you won't have any problems. If you feel the "red haze" start to descend, park it. Or at least throttle down. If you can do that, you won't have any problems.

FWIW, two of the bad wrecks were racers Monday, not beginners. The racers, at least the serious ones, tend to be just that serious. Sometimes serious hurts.

Daryl
 
That said, no one HAS to wreck at a track day. I hate when I hear "It's the price we pay for the sport" or even better "I don't wanna go because I don't want to wreck my bike". Okay, don't go

I agree totally. Long ago I instituted the "nofun" rule to my racing catamarans. If I am not having fun, I am not going to do it. Also, this is America, nobody can make you go out and wreck your bike. It is just like golf, you and the score card.

I am by no means "Not Going". How about that Miss Arbuckel, a double negative. I am excited about going. Since I have not been exposed to the track day deal before, I was just wondering what was the deal with all the crashes?

So, how many other future addicts are going to be there on the 12th?
 
If it's your first time, spend the extra $25 and take Porter's class. That gives you some guidance for the morning, and it also keeps you away from the crazies in the A and B groups.

The last two track days have been out of the ordinary, I wouldn't worry about it too much...

I'll be there! I'm in for the weekend...hopefully I can get the SV ready and actually race for a change!

Daryl
 
:tab I can vouch for Stephen's class. It is worth the extra few bucks. If anything, it helps you focus on specific tasks like I was ranting about in a previous post. Very useful.

Adios,
 
I signed up for the class. I am going there to learn, not to learn how fast I can go. The class seemed like a nobrainer. Especially for my first time.

Now, should I take the VFR or the Monster Motard R1150GS?

Just kidding.
 
Stephen Porter was one of the range instructors at my MSF beginner's course 3 years ago. Seemed like he knew what he was doing, and now that I know what i know about riding, I have that much more respect for the guy. Have fun and ride safe guys. I'll be thinking of ya'll roaring around the track while I'm suffering through a fluids exam... :headbang:
 
I suffered though many of those exams while in school there. You are talking about looking at the world through a bottle of beer, right?
 
There were a lot of answers to why there were so many accidents at the track. Now I cannot tell you what the track conditions are like because I have never been there.

What I will offer is one more idea to the problem. How about horse power? Today's bikes are so much faster than yesterdays. 20 years a 1,000cc bike was pushing 75 hp. Today, that same bike pushes 170 hp. That's a huge jump with most of it being in the last 5 years. There is no doubt in my mind that some of these guys don't have the trottle control necessary to safely handle that much hp.

Again...just my opinion.

Later,
 
I think that analogy would be valid if it was only the motor that had improved over the past 20 years, but along with the motor improvements, there have been significant refinements in other areas of the bike's design to allow it to utilize that increase in raw power. Improvements in suspension design, tire design, brake design, materials used in all components, etc.

I'm sure there are people still wrecking out there on SV-650s and older 600cc inline 4's that push way less than 100hp, so in my thinking, that kind of invalidates that. That's just my opinion though.
 
Perhaps what hasn't changed over the years is the rider's target-fixation when entering a corner too hot? ;-)

I'm just talking out of turn here. I can't wait to get to a track day some day when the star align Just Right...
 
I can't speak for the track, but on the road, I think a lot of people panic and hit the brakes because they have carried too much speed into a corner. This has all kind of bad effects on the dynamics of a bike leaned over in a corner.

I have always contended that even a 125 goes plenty fast enough to get you in trouble.

On the flip side, I often wonder why people try to hot rod their bikes that already produce more hp than most riders need. I think it boils down to people trying to customize their ride.
"Look at the cool Monel tin can I replaced my exhaust with...."
 
The chain on my FZR400 broke (not the masterlink which is still intact) as I was coming into the horseshoe. I was able to make it through the horseshoe, but wasn't able to successfully make turn 10, probably because I had lifted my left leg off and away from the footpeg to keep it away from the chain. I went mud-sliding for about 75 yards before falling over in the 3"-6" deep Lake TWS that formed from all the rain that fell the night before.
 
j.davis said:
I went mud-sliding for about 75 yards before falling over in the 3"-6" deep Lake TWS that formed from all the rain that fell the night before.

Well at least it sounds soft. But what a mess. How is the bike?
 
Obvious damage: broken chain; front sprocket missing at least one tooth; rear sprocket badly scratched up but may be o.k.; end of swingarm gacked up; front sprocket cover broken; waterpump case/cover broken. Bike is at shop for inspection & repair.
 
Good luck, I hope it doesn't cost too much.

I know the parts can be outrageous. I was at the LBS to pick up some chain lube. I decided to replace the giant rubber band that holds down the tool under the seat on my VFR. The guy looks it up and immediately says, he thought I should look for something else to use. Then he explains the large rubber band is $18.00. That seems a little silly.
I guess I will try some bungee cord.

Anyway, it is amazing what it would cost to build one of these bikes if you bought it a piece at a time. Makes new bikes seem like a real bargain.
 
:tab I was once told that the standard markup for parts is 300% of the MSRP of the bike. So to build one by buying all the parts retail would cost you three times the original purchase price. Unfortunately, as the bikes get older and depreciate in value, the parts don't follow suit and get cheaper!

:tab I think it is a vast corporate conspiracy!! :-P They make parts so expensive that they kill you if you actually buy them. And they know that for most stuff, you have no choice but to buy them. However, for anything relatively major, I don't really think they want you to fix the bike. I think they want it to be so expensive that you will just cave in and buy a new bike! Either way they win! It kind of sucks in my opinion :-|

Adios,
 
leadwolf said:
What I will offer is one more idea to the problem. How about horse power? Today's bikes are so much faster than yesterdays. 20 years a 1,000cc bike was pushing 75 hp. Today, that same bike pushes 170 hp. That's a huge jump with most of it being in the last 5 years. There is no doubt in my mind that some of these guys don't have the trottle control necessary to safely handle that much hp.

While I'd agree with you on why accidents in general are up on sport bikes, I don't think this is the track day answer. We're talking about a big jump in accidents from last October to now, not a span of years.

Cold weather and opening season jitters I think are the cause here...

But in terms of the general sportbiek carnage on the street, you're dead on! I remember when Kenny Roberts (Sr.) first took delivery of a TZ750 that broke 100HP for the first time.

Now anyone who can buy a SuperSport 600 gets more horsies than Kenny had at Daytona. I doubt the bulk of them have more skill than Kenny did (or still does for that matter!)

Ciao,

Daryl
 
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