• Welcome to the Two Wheeled Texans community! Feel free to hang out and lurk as long as you like. However, we would like to encourage you to register so that you can join the community and use the numerous features on the site. After registering, don't forget to post up an introduction!

Should Honda Hire Harley's Marketing Department?

Tourmeister

Keeper of the Asylum
Admin
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
51,144
Reaction score
8,054
Location
Huntsville
First Name
Scott
Last Name
Friday
Howdy,

:tab So I was sitting around in one my favorite hangouts reading the latest issue of MCN and their "State of the Industry" report. It hit me that the Japanese manufacturers are really clueless or just not motivated when it comes to selling bikes here in the states. According to the article, this is the marketshare breakdown for 2002:

Honda 28.7%
Harley 25.1 %
Yamaha 18.3%
Suzuki 11.5%
Kawasaki 9.9%
KTM 1.8%
BMW 1.6%
Triumph .7%
Ducati .7%
Buell .7%
Indian .4%
Polaris/Victory .4%
Aprillia .2%

You can see that after the top 5, everyone else is barely even a drop in the bucket.

:tab The industry average growth dropped from 19.6% for 2000-2001 to only 7.4% for 2001-2002. However, Harley specifically went from 13.7% to 15.8%. In a time when most everyone else, including Honda, is scurrying to figureout what to do, Harley is still selling more and more bikes. Like Microslop, even though the product is not the most technically advanced product on the market, they understand that with good marketing they can overcome their product's weaknesses.

:tab Think how often you have seen a commercial on any channel other than SpeedTV for a motorcycle other than Harley. How often has the Discovery or History channel done a show about Japanese bikes? How often have you seen a commercial for a product that is non motorcycle related and seen a V-Rod quite conspicuously placed in it? We've got Harley F-150's even. These guys understand that to really capture market share and to ensure future buyers, they have to get total penetration into people's psyches.

:tab Harley is about more than the machine between the rider's legs. There is the whole mystique and culture. There is the whole phenomenal after market fashion accessory thing. There is the whole custom bike culture where the bikes are built from the frame up. How often do you see that with a sport bike?

:tab The Japanese manufacturers need to invest more into getting their bikes in the eyes of the buying public, and not just those of us that already ride. They should do ads on other channels, place them in non-biker magazines, get them in movies like Triumph and Ducati have been doing, sell clothing and stupid stuff like Harley does. They really need to focus on the US's perception of sport bikes in general. Here, bikes are not viewed like they are in other countries. They should be more active in sponsoring events and programs to increase rider skills and safety awareness. Imagine if Honda were to push the insurance industry to offer significant discounts to riders that complete track days. Or imagine if they put together nationwide riding classes so that they didn't cost several hundred dollars per class!? Imagine if they had a small scale model of the VFR 800, one of the most widely praised bikes they make!! :lol:

:tab Really, I just don't understand these manufacturers. Do they really think that simply sponsoring racers and racing events will do it? Racing is simply not a huge deal here in the States like it is in other countries. Do they even have a plan? Why don't they hire me? :P
 
Just some counterpoints...

Keep in mind that for all the japanese makers except maybe suzuki, the motorcycle division is a tiny part of a GIANT corporation. US bike sales are a drop in the bucket to them. Also, how many bikes does Hardley sell in Asia or Europe? ****, scooter sales worldwide by Hondayamazukisaki probably make Hardley's total sales look like chump change.

Also, the Japanese sell huge numbers of 4 wheelers, dirtbikes, jetskis etc here. How many of those does HD make?

And you don't think the Japanese makers are trying to get a piece of that cruiser pie?

Also, I have seen Honda bike commercials (no money down financing or test ride a wing/vtx) on major networks during at least basketball and golf programs (not that I watch golf).
 
Howdy,

:tab I'm pretty sure that the data is based on the total number of units sold worldwide, not just in the US. It does not include scooters. That being the case, I am astonished that Harley is up so high! Relative to the world market, I am under the impression that the US market is small. But to me, that means it is the least saturated market and has the most opportunity for growth. I realize that Honda and the others make tons of other products, but this report is focused solely on motorcycles. While it is true that the motorcycle division of Honda may not be the largest division, I don't think it is insignificant. They sold 235,076 bike in 2002 alone.

:tab The author of the article mentions that the motorcycle people at Honda are looking for ways to sustain future growth. I'm sure that Honda Motorcycles is a different company than Honda Automotive. Of course they are all probably owned by the parent Honda Corp and share info amongst the various intracorportate companies. So the motorcycle division still needs to hire me :-P
 
Hrm, I'm looking at the article and table and it does not specify if these are worldwide or US only. That is odd (and poor reporting, IMO). Although, Triumph's sales # for 2002 is 5847 bikes, so I'm guessing it must be worldwide. The article is very US-centric, however.

Anyway, I agree with you that if HD sells mostly in the US, but manages to sell almost as many bikes as Honda does worldwide, that is remarkable.
 
A few thoughts:

* I had it in my head that the figures quoted in MCN were US only. Guess I'm wrong.

* I also read somewhere that 50% of Honda's sales are dirt bikes, and a large portion of the rest were cruisers. Can't quickly verify that, though.

* Harley certainly does know how to market, but personally, I'd rather a company pours its dollars into R&D. Besides, I get embarassed at just the THOUGHT of getting decked out in all Harley clothing and jewelry, esp. if I didn't have the bike. :eek: Just not my style.

* Kawasaki had a cool infomercial a while back, thinly disguised as a set of nice rides: up CA's highway 1 with a Bostrom and some sportbikes (
Bostrom apparently rides on a cruiser on the street); around SW CO on touring bikes (drool)l; and cruising in/around Sturgis on, well, cruisers. Nice job, but like Scott says, maybe they need to do more of that.

* Hey, if aprilia goes to .3% market share, that's a 50% increase!!! GO PRILLERS... :lol:
 
> "Japanese manufacturers are really clueless or just not motivated when it comes to selling bikes here in the states."

I think it has more to do with market demographics.

HD has tapped that huge baby-boomer market of people who were teens during the 60's. For the last 30 years Society has told them that they were supposed to be rebellious, free spirited souls.

In reality very, very, very few people during the 60's were peace-n-love long-haired rebels like the ones we continuously see in the footage from that era. The vast majority were awkward twenty-something shmucks living in B.F. Ohio trying to get through college, learn a trade, or feed their toddlers.

By the late 80's these people were well-off financially. They had their kids raised. They were beginning the end of their working careers. Their retirement portfolios were becoming ripe and fat. Father Time was tapping them on the shoulder.

"Hey what happened?!?!" Jerry Garcia and Jane Fonda told me life was supposed to be fun! I need to catch up!"

Solution: Go buy a Harley like Malcolm Forbes and play dress-up pretending to be Joe Namath in C.C. Ryder.

Unfortunately for HD, the ride may be ending soon. The baby boomers are starting to get too old to ride. Dropping a Hog on your ankle is waaaay different at 65 years of age than at 55.

People like me 35 and under don't have the same fascination with HD that the older crowd does. We didn't sit through all those Biker movies at the drive-in in the early 70's.

There are a whole lot of late 90's model Harleys sitting around in garages with only 2500 miles on them. When those start hitting the used market during the next 7 years it's gonna be a blood-bath.

Personally, I'd like to have one. They are fun to drive on occasion.
 
Nicely put, John.

I, too, wouldn't mind having a h-d if I had the extra $$$, but then again, I'd probably save money and get a Yamaha Warrior or something...!

I read somewhere that the HD buyer of today was the Honda Dream buyer of the 60s...Not sure what the point was, though!

I was going to disagree with you about HD's success diminishing in the future, but then I remembered the great dotcom bubble, and realized that it's very tough to sustain revenue growth forever.

I think that, if the 1%er-looking cruiser market ever falters, it'll be really interesting to see how HD responds (perhaps the VRod is them hedging their bet on that possibility...? )....

paul
 
I dunno about HD's sales slumping in the future. I've heard people saying that for the last few years. However, the few people that I personally know that ride Hardleys are in their 30s. And from eating at the same restaurants or stopping at the same gas stations as groups of them on rides, I can tell you that many of them are not 50+.

All kinds of people are buying into the image. Sure the glut of BB's helped them, but I don't see sales slumping anytime soon.

Now, if there were to actually be enforcent of the laws against straight pipes, maybe they'd sell a lot less of these to dimwit children who can afford a $18k bike. Oh, but it's okay because they're just having fun and reliving their youth.

If I was to drop the can off my bike and start riding around with an open header on my V4, I bet I'd last about 10 minutes before I got pulled over or citizens all over the city started calling 911 on their cellphones.

Sorry, got off on a rant there.
 
calmdown.gif


:mrgreen:
 
Phew, thanks. I feel better now.

(Must have been that Dennis Miller HBO special I watched last night.)

8)
 
:tab Yeah Brian I agree about the pipe issue. but ya gotta admit the V4 without the pipe sounds ****** compared to the lame loud blat blat blat of the straight piped twins :twisted: I actually think a lot of the Harleys sound better with a more muffled sound because it gets rid of the sharp cracking sound and lets out more of the low frequency thumping.

:tab I really think it is a shame that so much of the Harley thing is the whole get dressed up and pretend to be someone you are not. While not all of their bikes look good to me, there are a few I REALLY like the looks of. However, it is unlikely I'll ever get one because I prefer not to be associated with the current attitude that goes with them so often. But to be fair, I have met some really nice people riding Harleys. They are not all obnoxious rebel wannabees. :-)

:tab My original point about the marketing is that Harley does not try to stand on the technical merits of their product, but rather sells the lifestyle or image that their product gives you, a similar tactic of Microsoft during the operating system wars of the late 80's and early 90's. Companies like Honda want to stand on the technical merits and let the product speak for itself, much like IBM did with OS/2. OS/2 in its last version back in the mid 90's is STILL a better product than the current version of Windows. It had features in the early 90's that Windows has only recently acquired. The funny thing is that Microsoft hails their new "features" as first time technologies, simply ignoring that OS/2 beat them by years. Kind of like Harley with their new advanced V-rod, hehe. But IBM, for whatever reasons, did not market OS/2 agressivley to home users, instead focusing on industry users that were more inclined to be technically oriented and thus able to appreciate the system. The problem is that people wanted to use the same thing at work and home. Micorsoft realized this and continued pushing the lifestyle of Windows and how great it can make your life, blah blah blah,... It worked.

:tab More and more, in our country in particular, it seems as if the consumers are dumbing down. We are not really all that concerned with the actual merits of a product compared to how that product will make us feel. This is really evident when you watch even a few minutes of commercials. About the only technical stuff they mention in car adds is how much horsepower you'll have and how cool you will be. "Yes... you too can be driving the new 6000 SUX!! It's got a bigger number than any other car on the market!!" The sad thing is that this seems to work. I doubt if Honda's motorcycles will ever go the way of OS/2, but the trends look similar. Even though Honda has the far superior technology, perhaps they need to sell a little lifestyle. They did it before with their "You meet the nicest people on a Honda," campaign back in the late 60's and early 70's. Have they forgotten how well this worked for them?
 
Tourmeister,

Funny you should bring up OS/2. I spent 10 years of my life in/around OS/2 (and related multimedia) development, fighting the fight.

I don't think Honda will go the way of OS/2, though. While they don't market a lifestyle like Harley does, they still have enough mindshare in many moto-segments to continue success...imho

p
 
I don't know about all the technicalities of sales/marketing and consumer trends, but speaking from a personal point of view, I now own and ride a Honda because I used to own a Harley.

Thanks.
 
It was a sad day when I removed my OS/2 partition from my hard drive :tears: I resisted winbloze as long as I could :shooter: , but Bill is like the BORG... resistance is futile... you will be assimilated... :shrug:
 
Tourmeister said:
but Bill is like the BORG... resistance is futile... you will be assimilated... :shrug:

Yup, though my opinion is that it wasn't BILL that rocked the world, it was STEVE (Ballmer).

We had software vendors who loved OS/2 (for the most part; it wasn't completely wartless), but said, "OS/2 is superior, but Windows is where the money's at."

Reportedly, Michael Dell himself said, "OS/2 is awesome, but why should I buy it? I'm paying Microsoft a royalty for each machine that leaves the factory, regardless of whether Windows is installed on it or not."

Those M$ Billionaires better be thanking Allah for their great good fortune. :wink:

But I'm not bitter.

:angryfir:
calmdown.gif
:mrgreen: [/i]
 
Guys, Honda is selling lifestyle. Haven't you seen the ads for the CBR600RR that tie it to the RC211V MotoGP bike and trupeting it's sweep at Daytona? Every racerboy in the country wants one now because they think they can be Valentino Rossi or Miguel Duhamel.
 
No no, Roger, they are selling phallic substitutes :lol: The idea is that will lead to a more rewarding lifestyle :kiss:
 
I just find it interesting that there are enough Harley riders and future Harley riders to keep 5 dealers in business between Austin and Waco, and that includes 3 in the Austin/Round Rock/Georgetown area alone.
 
Back
Top