Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) / 4 Gal Min mandate

[mikeofcontex]

Everclear is 190 proof... by definition... is it 100% ethanol?

[hizzo3]

Yes. By definition since it is hygroscopic, the 5% water is remaining from distillation and is near impossible to remove as it will pull water from ambient. Only reasonable way to get it past 95% is to add benzene, and to distill that off. But some benzene will remain making the mixture highly toxic. I work in aviation and we have access to 99.9% ethanol but you don't want to drink it BC the remaining .1% is benzene.

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[DFW_Warrior]

You all have seen this movie, right?
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/kingcorn/index.html

[wanabeguru]

HOPE i'M NOT REPOSTING;
Look what AMA sent
Federal officials mandate consumers must buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain ethanol-blend pumps

Take Action!
Contact your senators and your representative today!
I did the auto send.

[hizzo3]

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

HOPE i'M NOT REPOSTING;
Look what AMA sent
Federal officials mandate consumers must buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain ethanol-blend pumps

Take Action!
Contact your senators and your representative today!
I did the auto send.

Lol @ all soon to be near impossible to refill motorcycles less than 4 gal.

I wonder how this will be enforced. What if I go to top off... will the pump be mandated to keep pumping until 4gal is reached, overflowing on the ground?

I am OK with dedicated hoses for e15, but not in blender pumps. Oh and will this be another fancy fitting like they have with diesel to keep the wrong hose from the wrong hole? Let's not forget the atypical soccer mom that still tries to get gas from the green pump.

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[aggie81]

Just another example of how stunningly little intelligence is required to attain a position of authority in government.

[wanabeguru]

post 245 & 246 YUP!!

[Buellboy]

I have been using star tron regularly since the ethanol issue came up. Will that continue to
solve this problem when it goes to 15%?

[DancesWithCurves]

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

HOPE i'M NOT REPOSTING;
Look what AMA sent
Federal officials mandate consumers must buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain ethanol-blend pumps

Take Action!
Contact your senators and your representative today!
I did the auto send.

Source, please. Otherwise I will have to add that I heard they're in league with aliens to steal souls from babies.

A quick web search returns nothing conclusive, only several similar forwards. Blasting your representatives with unfounded noise only gives them more cause to tune you out.

[Buffalo]

Originally Posted by DancesWithCurves

Source, please. Otherwise I will have to add that I heard they're in league with aliens to steal souls from babies.

A quick web search returns nothing conclusive, only several similar forwards. Blasting your representatives with unfounded noise only gives them more cause to tune you out.

I did a web search and found this. http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/new..._ethanol_blend

As near as I can tell they have said that the requirement is to protect those that have smaller tanks from getting gas with more than E10. If the station doesn't use blender pumps or has a separate hose for E15 then the requirement is not in place.

[wanabeguru]

Originally Posted by DancesWithCurves

Source, please. Otherwise I will have to add that I heard they're in league with aliens to steal souls from babies.

A quick web search returns nothing conclusive, only several similar forwards. Blasting your representatives with unfounded noise only gives them more cause to tune you out.

American Motorcycle Association[AMA]

[DancesWithCurves]

Sorry for my tone -- I'm a little quick to snap at relatives who forward internet hoaxes (snopes, people!), and there was no reason for me to carry that over here.

This looks like the source of the AMA position:
http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/...ain_pumps.aspx

The above includes a link to a PDF of a hardcopy response from the EPA.

[wanabeguru]

AS LONG AS THE RUBBER IS DOWN ALL IS GOOD
stupid caps lok

[Slo-Moe]

For those in the Fort Worth area, Rep Michael Burgess will be at Timber Creek HS tonight from 7~8:00 pm for a town hall meeting. I can't make it but we need people to go out and voice our concerns with this E15 garbage.

[KenH]

Ethanol and water form an azeotrope in a 24:1 ratio that boils at ~77.85*Cm whereas pure ethanol boils at 78.4*C. Therefore, it is just about impossible to obtain any better than a 24:1 ratio via distillation. A 24:1 mixture, 96% ethanol and 4% water is considered 192 proof. I know the math doesn't add up, The additional 20% of water in 95% (190 proof) comes from evaporation of the water itself.

However, there are many other ways to purify ethanol. Salts (CaO is commonly used) mixed in to the azeotrope of ethanol and water will break the hydrogen bonds between the the two and cause phase separation--ethanol at one level, water and CaO at another. The ethanol can then be drained of. Another methos uses NaH as a drying agent--it combines with water and prevents the water and ethanol from forming an axeotrope, allowing the ethanol to be distilled off.

You can buy pure, 200 proof, 100% ethanol from biology supply companies, but the purchase of such requires a BATF permit or the payment of federal excise taxes.

[CB700SC]

Nope, not tin-foil-hattery. Link to actual document in quote, source link here.

The Environmental Protection Agency is going to require all consumers to buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain gas pumps after the new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend is introduced into the market.

The new regulation was revealed in an Aug. 1 letter to the American Motorcyclist Association, which expressed concern that the vast majority of motorcycles and ATVs in use today aren’t designed to operate on E15 fuel and residual fuel from a pump that serves multiple blends might harm these tanks.

“The use of E15 will lower fuel efficiency and possibly cause premature engine failure,” Wayne Allard, AMA vice president for government relations, wrote in a June 20 letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson. “Use of E15 fuel voids many manufacturer warranties. In off-road engines, the effects can even be dangerous for users.”

The EPA responded that it requires that retail stations with blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 percent ethanol.

This minimum mandate attempts to dilute residual amounts of E15 that will be left in the shared hose.

“Not only do we find it unacceptable for the EPA to mandate that everyone — including our members — buy minimum amounts of gas, but the EPA answer simply won’t work because of the sizes of many motorcycle and ATV gas tanks and the fact that off-highway riders take containers of gas with them on their trips, and most times those containers are much smaller than four gallons,” Allard said.

“The EPA has no business mandating how much gasoline Americans have to buy when filling up at the pump. What if a rider doesn’t have a motorcycle with a four gallon tank? Or if someone wants to fill a canister for their lawnmower or outboard boat engine, but it only holds 2 or 3 gallons?” Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) said today.

“Or what if an American, struggling in this economy, just can’t afford 4 gallons of gas?” Sensenbrenner added. “This is just one more example of how problematic the EPA’s E15 partial waiver is. This is not a solution to misfueling risks — it’s a ridiculous and unworkable mandate.”

So they're going to force E15 on us anyway. How special. The crap can void your warranty, kill your engine, and cause fires, but hey, we're going to make you buy it four gallons at a time!

Just remember which people seem to think this is a good idea. And vote accordingly in November.

[Brotha J]

The tank in my CBR4Fi is only about 3 1/2 gallons. Perhaps if the main stream media were doing it's job then we wouldn't have to worry about such things being shoved down our throats.

Is the government going to pay the repair costs from me HAVING to use E15?

[Chirpy]

And the mandate comes out as Congress is asking to end the E10 requirement to bring down corn prices as the drought drives them up.

Now that the subsidy is gone, it makes no sense to put ethanol in gas, unless you are an Archer Daniels Midland lobbyist.

[kojack06]

Everyday, less freedom from these racist nazis. Little Lisa is probably laughing at the AMA while she drinks $6.00 Starbuck coffee with her anti-American criminal Nazi friends. She believes its her "right" to order you to ruin your motorcycle.

[1TallTXn]

All of my street bikes ave 5+gallon tanks, but I've been known to stop and top-off the tank before a day of riding and put in <2gal.

The little 250cc bikes have little need for a 4+gal tank.

Oh ya, none of my vehicles will accept E15.


Can we disband the EPA now?