Tailgated, then "ROAD RAGED" (?)

[on1wheel]

All the road rage I experienced in my years of riding has led me to believe that a lot of people either mistake our headlights for being on high beam or think we're flashing our lights at them. Several times at night I had people suddenly swerve to the shoulder so they could get behind me with their lights on bright. I'd typically just speed off.

[shanedman]

Originally Posted by Jack Giesecke

Violates about every principle they teach in CCW classes, "non-violent dispute resolution". I've taught myself to just "let it go". Yeah, it's very hard sometimes, but I'd rather just let it go. If you'd had to shoot the guy (a gun was present as it always is with me), you'd be in deep kimchi with the law. You don't have to retreat, but you can't press the issue, then use deadly force no matter the circumstances. If you are unarmed as in this case, and the guy is a nutcase with a gun....not smart.

If I have such thoughts, I think of the legal fees.....

logic/reasoning for your comment understood... and i was unarmed that day.... i especially tend to avoid conflict if possible when armed, which is 95% of the time other than at work. and if its some psycho that wants to shoot me.. they better make sure and kill me... im not afraid of being shot, but if you shoot me, i better not be able to retaliate... LOL
all in all, no harm no foul....

[shanedman]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

I was sitting in the dentist chair when the dentist noticed I had a motorcycle helmet with me. We started talking and then he mentioned how he "corrected" a lane splitting motorcycle by opening the door of his truck.

Without thinking I said "Gee, lane splitting may be illegal but attempted homicide with a lethal weapon could get you in a lot of trouble". He kind of paused. I don't think it had occurred to him before that moment that "correcting" another driver/rider could be so wrong. I was so taken aback because he is a really nice guy but I should not be surprised. I think I am a nice guy and I do some bonehead things sometimes!

Fortunately for me I did not require any drilling that day.

Some people just dont think before acting... myself sometimes included, but i try to analyze possible outcomes before i proceed into most situations.

Originally Posted by cheez

I was headed down the Dallas North Tollway this evening and had a guy in a Chevy 2500 decide he didn't like how fast I was going... so he starts chasing me, going as fast as I was, while honking and flashing his lights at me. I'm glad I came up on some slow traffic and was able to screen him out behind the slower moving cars... I'm not sure what his goal was other than just being rude. My guess is that he was jealous that I was going faster than he was, but who knows- could have been an old friend. All I know was that I wasn't sticking around to find out.

Originally Posted by on1wheel

All the road rage I experienced in my years of riding has led me to believe that a lot of people either mistake our headlights for being on high beam or think we're flashing our lights at them. Several times at night I had people suddenly swerve to the shoulder so they could get behind me with their lights on bright. I'd typically just speed off.

Having the ability of a bike, being able to make a quick getaway from such situations can come in handy.

[Jack Giesecke]

Originally Posted by cheez

I was headed down the Dallas North Tollway this evening and had a guy in a Chevy 2500 decide he didn't like how fast I was going... so he starts chasing me, going as fast as I was, while honking and flashing his lights at me. I'm glad I came up on some slow traffic and was able to screen him out behind the slower moving cars... I'm not sure what his goal was other than just being rude. My guess is that he was jealous that I was going faster than he was, but who knows- could have been an old friend. All I know was that I wasn't sticking around to find out.

I have noticed, especially in urban commuter traffic, that everyone seems to think it's a NASCAR race and they are all jockeying to be in front for some reason. When I'm on the SV, I sometimes am tempted to just run it up to 135 (fast as the thing will go) and see if they still want in front. But, alas, I just let 'em up front 'cause I don't need a speeding ticket. Well, at THOSE speeds, I'd probably be cuffed and stuffed. Where it gets crazy, weird, in the morning on the way from Corpus to Port Lavaca is around Ingleside. I know that once I get past that exit on SH35, all the NASCAR wannabes turn off (going to work, I guess). I never really understood why folks were in such a hurry to go TO work. I mean, I was always in the big hurry to get home FROM work.

[Jack Giesecke]

Originally Posted by shanedman

Having the ability of a bike, being able to make a quick getaway from such situations can come in handy.

Yep, and I've been thinking of getting a 250 Dual Sport bike. But, I'm moving away from the idiocy and don't plan to ride the thing in urban traffic. Heck, the KLR is pretty worthless, too, aside from being skinnier in traffic and more maneuverable. I mean, it ain't exactly a powerhouse of speed and acceleration. The SV is fast and quick enough to comfort me in such situations, but if I had my druthers, I'd be on a GSXR1000 in those situations.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Originally Posted by Jack Giesecke

Yep, and I've been thinking of getting a 250 Dual Sport bike. But, I'm moving away from the idiocy and don't plan to ride the thing in urban traffic. Heck, the KLR is pretty worthless, too, aside from being skinnier in traffic and more maneuverable. I mean, it ain't exactly a powerhouse of speed and acceleration. The SV is fast and quick enough to comfort me in such situations, but if I had my druthers, I'd be on a GSXR1000 in those situations.

Fight or flight is an instinctive response. When faced when any threat scrubbing off speed may often be a better response. Especially if you have the maneuverability of a dual sport. But no, high speed flight is not a good option on the SuperSlab when you are on a 250. But in Urban or Rural riding braking and maneuverability provide lots of escape routes.

And thanks Ken H for the lane splitting / maneuverability idea (and how to handle the possible resulting traffic stop). Now I see curbs, medians, and even "lane splitting" openings in a whole new way. Instead of barriers they are gates that can let me through (and not the cagers). In Sugar Land I am almost always close to a median, field, power line easement, or flood levy.

[Jack Giesecke]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

Fight or flight is an instinctive response. When faced when any threat scrubbing off speed may often be a better response. Especially if you have the maneuverability of a dual sport. But no, high speed flight is not a good option on the SuperSlab when you are on a 250. But in Urban or Rural riding braking and maneuverability provide lots of escape routes.

Yes, I HAD to use this philosophy when I was chased by the drunks when I was a kid. I was on a 125. It would do about 70 maxed out flat on the tank. I knew of a turn off on the highway and he got to me just as I reached it, dove for it, he ended up stuck in the ditch after trying to hit me. I was 17, shook me up. When the cops got to the spot, he'd gotten away.

All in all, I prefer to have a throttle. Sure makes me feel better, especially on freeways and in highway situations. I do have my 9x19 if I'm cornered, but throttle works on the SV650. Not many pickups and cars can hang with the SV and those that can are too expensive for most rednecks and gang bangers.

I've not had this happen in a long, long time. But, I try to stay away from big cities. I don't have to ride in those high risk areas all that often.

[1TallTXn]

Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet

And thanks Ken H for the lane splitting / maneuverability idea (and how to handle the possible resulting traffic stop). Now I see curbs, medians, and even "lane splitting" openings in a whole new way. Instead of barriers they are gates that can let me through (and not the cagers). In Sugar Land I am almost always close to a median, field, power line easement, or flood levy.

I always try to keep an escape route open. Doesn't matter for what reason, but I always want an out.
Road rager, inattentive driver, etc. At stop lights I usually point my wheel towards the gap between the lanes, the shoulder, anything that will get me out of there should the makeup applying mom behind be decide not to stop.

[shanedman]

Originally Posted by Jack Giesecke

I have noticed, especially in urban commuter traffic, that everyone seems to think it's a NASCAR race and they are all jockeying to be in front for some reason. When I'm on the SV, I sometimes am tempted to just run it up to 135 (fast as the thing will go) and see if they still want in front. But, alas, I just let 'em up front 'cause I don't need a speeding ticket. Well, at THOSE speeds, I'd probably be cuffed and stuffed. Where it gets crazy, weird, in the morning on the way from Corpus to Port Lavaca is around Ingleside. I know that once I get past that exit on SH35, all the NASCAR wannabes turn off (going to work, I guess). I never really understood why folks were in such a hurry to go TO work. I mean, I was always in the big hurry to get home FROM work.

Its funny, when im in my car, if im doing 5 over the MPH limit, people seem to not wanna do the speed limit at all.. instead they seem to wanna block everyone behind them by going slow as possible...
Then when i am on the bike, i find that most cagers wanna pass me.... as if me being on a bike means i want to race.....
realistically, if i wanted to speed and/or be in front of you i could be... i tend to stick to the speed limit when on the bike (usually)

Originally Posted by 1TallTXn

I always try to keep an escape route open. Doesn't matter for what reason, but I always want an out.
Road rager, inattentive driver, etc. At stop lights I usually point my wheel towards the gap between the lanes, the shoulder, anything that will get me out of there should the makeup applying mom behind be decide not to stop.

Very good idea... i tend to be on edge at stop lights until i know that a vehicle has come to a complete stop behind me... once i know they have seen me and are stopped, i relax a tiny bit. I try to leave room to move in a hurry if i have to.... not necessarily "point" but just have space to do what i gotta... it also helps with extra space if you have a possible 2 ways out.. instead of just one... just my opinion though.

[KenH]

With 650,000+ miles on pavement I've had ample opportunity to avoid ragers. Just let them have their way. The can kill you if they want, and some of them want to. They usually have a pattern in their driving that sets them apart from others. Watch for agressive driving and avoid those who drive that way. It doesn't matter who is supposed to yield the right-of-way (nobody really ever has the right-of-way), you are the one who will die in a collision. Use marine right-of-way rules: tonnage wins.

It is always better to let the rager go first. No matter how fast your bike, your degree of safety being way out in front is only as strong as the rager's lack of persistence. Remember, ragers are psychologically disfunctional, and it is not reasonable to expect them to calm down. It is not unusual to hear of revenge extracted years after the initial upset. I'd rather the rager not have a real good idea what I look like, and I definately would not want a nutcase calling the law with my tag number. If you do go ahead, turn off and make a good escape. Make sure you are not followed. However, lane splitting may be a better option in stop-and-go traffic. Get far, far ahead, turn off, and disappear quickly. I'd consider keeping to the right, lane splitting, and right on red whenever a light catches you. I'd make lefts on green, preferabbly on a green arrow tht will likely turn red before a rager can reach it. I would avoid sitting and waiting for a light. Move quickly, turn often. A rager won't be able to keep up.

If you are on a dualsport or adventure bike, or even a smallish street bike, and have the skills, go offroad, the gnarlier the better. I have evaded an LEO using thisd method, on a Honda SL100. Motorcycles easily outperform any stock stock cage offroad on anything rougher than a lawn. Most cages can go off curbs fine at speed, very few can go up a curb at speed without trashing the steering and front suspension. This is even true for 4x4 trucks and SUVs. It takes a specially modified and strengthened vehicle to climb a 6-inch curb at speed without damage. I've highsided a rager in a Civic simply by riding up the embankment under a bridge. Right front and left rear ground effects planted on concrete, left front tire dangling in air. I've also ridden up the grassy embankment of an overpass and the rager hit the embankment with some momentum and a floored throttle, ending up buried to the frame half way up. I saw a rager chase a motorcycle across a stream bed covered with a rock rip-rap and shred his oil pan. Moral is, if the rager wants to play tag, go where he can't without trashing his ride.

Another advantage most motorcycles have over most cages is the ability to stop quicker. If a rager is tailgating or pulled up along side, change lanes and try to put another vehicle between you. Keep changing lanes until you are beside the emergency lane, then serve into the emergency lane and do a sudden stop. The rager is likely to go 100 feet before he even racts and hits the brake, and traffic piling up between him and you is a problem he will have to negotiate to get back to you. Don't feel a bit ashamed about doing a 180 and hightailing it the wrong way on the emergency lane. If you can plan your stop to leave barely enough room to make an exit, the rager will end up past the exit. This will gain you time to escape.

U-turns on roads with curbed medians are always fun, especially if you can time one right in front of a wad of oncoming traffic.

Always keep an eye out for small openings, like a walk gate in a fence, a narrow trail between trees, or a walk bridge over an interstate. These can stop a rager cold. A friend tells of a rager in Memphis trying to catch him. He went in a pay-to-park exit with the tire shredders. Great fun!

Use your head. Match your bike's capabilities and your riding abilities to the rager's cage's limitations. There are plenty of saner, safer options than a mega-speed run in traffic.

[Jack Giesecke]

We had the stop light discussion on this board a few years ago when someone was at a stop light and got knocked down by a make up applying soccer mom, or some such, IIRC. Yep, never take the bike out of first gear at a stop light and be prepared for evasive action at least until I have 4 or 5 cars lined up behind me. It was that thread on this board that got me out of the habit of stickin' the bike in neutral at lights and in the habit of looking in the mirror when stopped.

I've often told Holly seems like everyone in front of me wants to go slower and everyone behind me wants to go faster.....

[Jack Giesecke]

If you are on a dualsport or adventure bike, or even a smallish street bike, and have the skills, go offroad, the gnarlier the better. I have evaded an LEO using thisd method, on a Honda SL100.

I am assuming the statute of limitations expired?

All what you say is fine in traffic, but out on the open highway, the throttle rules on a bike like the SV650 or something faster. If he wants to fight and will not back off and I can't shake him quickly, well, I can stop. I'm his huckleberry. But, there's always a road to duck down or an underpass to duck under or something once you're out of his sight with throttle if you're on a bike with throttle. If he wants a show down (I've discussed this on this board with another road incident involving gang members on the Katy freeway a few years back), duck into a gas station or convenience store with lots of witnesses. Kill him in front of witnesses, probably more likely to get a no bill.

[KenH]

I've never seen a road rage incident out on open highway. Local yocals in their coalrollers and minivans on back roads and gangstas, yuppie larva, and soccer moms thrown in in urban areas, that's about it. I suppose if it happened on an open highway I'd just take off cross country since nothing I have is really fast enough to do a sustained top end getaway. I do like your idea of lots of witnesses.

[ninthlord]

Originally Posted by cheez

I was headed down the Dallas North Tollway this evening and had a guy in a Chevy 2500 decide he didn't like how fast I was going... so he starts chasing me, going as fast as I was, while honking and flashing his lights at me. I'm glad I came up on some slow traffic and was able to screen him out behind the slower moving cars... I'm not sure what his goal was other than just being rude. My guess is that he was jealous that I was going faster than he was, but who knows- could have been an old friend. All I know was that I wasn't sticking around to find out.

Dude - you had some toilet paper on you heel. It just looked stupid.

[khager]

A lot of good ideas Ken. I don't have a dual-sport, well not a real one anyway. But Here's a couple that worked for me on my Wee-Strom.

1. Rager chasing me in a pickup thru a suburban residential area, I took a right off the main road, a quick u-turn, and I am passing him going the other direction while riding down the sidewalk. By the time he makes a 3 possibly 4 point turn (narrow street with cars parked on both sides) I have jumped the curb back on the main road and am long gone.

2. Rager in a car chasing me down a street that comes into a school zone (no school at the time) I pin the throttle as I split the gap in the large speed bumps , I hear a screech and a big bang. Look in my rear view mirror and rager is pulled over, getting out, and looking under his vehicle.

[shanedman]

Originally Posted by KenH

I've never seen a road rage incident out on open highway. Local yocals in their coalrollers and minivans on back roads and gangstas, yuppie larva, and soccer moms thrown in in urban areas, that's about it. I suppose if it happened on an open highway I'd just take off cross country since nothing I have is really fast enough to do a sustained top end getaway. I do like your idea of lots of witnesses.

+1 on the witnesses.. good idea

Originally Posted by khager

A lot of good ideas Ken. I don't have a dual-sport, well not a real one anyway. But Here's a couple that worked for me on my Wee-Strom.

1. Rager chasing me in a pickup thru a suburban residential area, I took a right off the main road, a quick u-turn, and I am passing him going the other direction while riding down the sidewalk. By the time he makes a 3 possibly 4 point turn (narrow street with cars parked on both sides) I have jumped the curb back on the main road and am long gone.

2. Rager in a car chasing me down a street that comes into a school zone (no school at the time) I pin the throttle as I split the gap in the large speed bumps , I hear a screech and a big bang. Look in my rear view mirror and rager is pulled over, getting out, and looking under his vehicle.

very nice outcome on those 2 scenarios.

[cheez]

Originally Posted by ninthlord

Dude - you had some toilet paper on you heel. It just looked stupid.

[Dave.TX]

Originally Posted by kurt

Sounds like a prime candidate for bath salts. Right area of town too. They are becoming more common than almost every other drug we see combined.

As much as normal people (non drug users) think most folks don't use drugs there really ARE a LOT of people out there at any given time high on something. Bath salts is becoming a big problem in central Texas, among meth, crack and everything else.

Since there are so many people driving on the road that shouldn't be you need to be prepared for anything. There are quite a few folks that hear voices that tell them to do destructive things to people and objects they otherwise would ignore. Sometimes you haven't done anything to provoke a person, it's the voices in their head that tell them to do certain things and they do it. Drugs are a major player in that. Some are just schizophrenic. There is nothing you can do to calm the situation except get out of it as quickly as you can.

Also you can not apply your morals and way of thinking to every driver out there. Some just hate motorcyclists. There is nothing you can do to change that mindset.

I found out long ago you can't reason with a drunk person. You also can't reason with a high or crazy person. The sooner you recognize that and get out of there the better.

We're at a disadvantage being most can't make phone calls to 911 on the fly. We have to stop, take out our phone, take off the helmet and make the call. By that time the person is usually long gone that you wanted to report.

Glad you made it out OK to ride another day.

[mbrew]

Originally Posted by kurt

Sounds like a prime candidate for bath salts. Right area of town too. They are becoming more common than almost every other drug we see combined.



http://recovergateway.org/resources/...h-salts-abuse/

I guess I'm living a protected life, I hadn't heard of this. It never ceases to amaze me what people will do to screw themselves up.

[YoDoc]

Originally Posted by mbrew

I guess I'm living a protected life, I hadn't heard of this. It never ceases to amaze me what people will do to screw themselves up.

Zombies.