Yet ANOTHER Strange and Baffling Electrical Problem (Darn it!)

[leekellerking]

Bikey (my 1982 CB650SC) is ailing again and so I appeal to the group mind for help (or at least, consolation).

I was riding home on my 28 mile (one way) commute when I thumbed the right blinker as I exited the HOV lane. No blinker! Darn, I thought (Okay, actually my language was more colorful, but this is TWTEX, after all). That's no good.

I exited the freeway and stopped for the light. Still no operating blinkers.

Darn! The bike died.

Not enough battery to restart it, so I pushed it down the road to the Bank of America parking lot. I pulled the left side cover (site of the previous electrical mystery), but everything seemed okay.

I pulled out my Blackberry, texted my wife and my assistant den leader (yes, I had a Cub Scout den meeting tonight), then I called my the American Motorcyclist Association roadserve service number. 45 minutes for the wrecker, so I pushed the bike to a more visible spot and walked next door to Whataburger.

Twenty minutes later, I figured "why not give it a try" and turned the switch and hit the start button. Varooommm -- Bikey started right up! And now the turn signals were working again. Argghhhh!!!!!


So, now Bikey is siting safely in my garage on the battery tender. He starts and runs fine and the only thing that was obviously wrong was that the oil was low (I'm waiting on a new oil pressure light switch because mine weeps oil).

What the heck is up???

Can anyone think of a reason my blinkers would go out AND the bike would die when hot, but be fine once it cooled off?

To be honest, I did pull the headlight bucket off Sunday when I replaced the lights in the tach and speedo. But how could that cause Bikey to die, and why wait four days to do it? (It's not like I wasn't haulin small donkey on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday)

I guess I have to drive the cage to work tomorrow, and I HATE driving to work!

Any ideas?

[wanabeguru]

1-get rid of the bike
2-keepbike,look for possibility of intermittent cell in battery
3-get alternator load tested. when my '83 650 hawk did same thing it was caused by shorted windings in alt that on long term would charge battery but on short term no dice. An alt that is going bad[you have had trouble with it in the past if memory servesme correctly], it very,very slowly recharges battery. So, as bike uses power it drains battery rapidly-as seen by blinker not working and starter inop. BTW, the heavily discharged battery will rejuvinate itself if left to sit for an hour or so and usually can restart the bike. So, get the charging system load tested and get the battery load tested. I think Harbor Freight has an inexpensive motorcycle tester. A car tester is too big for a bikes electrical system. Hope this helps. PM me if you like.

[leekellerking]

No. 1 -- not an option, right now.

No. 2 -- I'll get it checked Sunday (after I get back from Cub Scout campout). The battery is a new YUSA (and under warranty)

No. 3 -- I'll see if I can do that. I have already replaced the rotor and it is putting out the right voltage at idle and 5,000 rpm (or, it was a few weeks ago).

Arggghhh!!!

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

1-get rid of the bike
2-keepbike,look for possibility of intermittent cell in battery
3-get alternator load tested. when my '83 650 hawk did same thing it was caused by shorted windings in alt that on long term would charge battery but on short term no dice. An alt that is going bad[you have had trouble with it in the past if memory servesme correctly], it very,very slowly recharges battery. So, as bike uses power it drains battery rapidly-as seen by blinker not working and starter inop. BTW, the heavily discharged battery will rejuvinate itself if left to sit for an hour or so and usually can restart the bike. So, get the charging system load tested and get the battery load tested. I think Harbor Freight has an inexpensive motorcycle tester. A car tester is too big for a bikes electrical system. Hope this helps. PM me if you like.

[wanabeguru]

Lee:
1-Just because a battery is new does NOT mean it is good!
2-To properly charge the battery TWO things are required:
a] A voltage higher than that which is in the battery and
b] a CURRENT CAPABALITY high enough to replace what has been "used up"
So, even though a voltmeter shows "enough output" if the alt does NOT have enough CURRENT output to go with the voltage, it aint gonna happen.
3-consider this your personal lesson in electronics for the day
good luck!
PS: I trust you have checked wiring [grounds, etc]to be good.

[wanabeguru]

Do I remember you have BRUSHES in your alt? Check their length and also spring tension. Of course if your regulator/rectifier is bad.................................

[Desmo]

I'll bet it is the ignition switch. Next time it happens, try switching the key to all positions and see if anything lights up.

Steve

[Moose]

rough up battery connection, apply a little dielectric grease

They can seem tight but they could be oxidized

[dukey33]

Originally Posted by leekellerking

He starts and runs fine and the only thing that was obviously wrong was that the oil was low (I'm waiting on a new oil pressure light switch because mine weeps oil).

What the heck is up???

Can anyone think of a reason my blinkers would go out AND the bike would die when hot, but be fine once it cooled off?

So how low was the oil?
Remember the alternator sits immersed in oil for cooling. If the oil is low and the windings get hot, the resistance goes up. I don't want to open my physics textbook to find the relation between resistance and flux, but it can be reasoned the increased resistance will at least inhibit the flow of current out of the alternator to the rectifier.

Perhaps a bit of a stretch for theory, but it's an idea.

[leekellerking]

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

Do I remember you have BRUSHES in your alt? Check their length and also spring tension. Of course if your regulator/rectifier is bad.................................

I checked the brushes Sunday. They appear good.

[leekellerking]

Originally Posted by dukey33

So how low was the oil?
Remember the alternator sits immersed in oil for cooling. If the oil is low and the windings get hot, the resistance goes up. I don't want to open my physics textbook to find the relation between resistance and flux, but it can be reasoned the increased resistance will at least inhibit the flow of current out of the alternator to the rectifier.

Perhaps a bit of a stretch for theory, but it's an idea.

Actually, the alternator in my bike does not sit in oil. It is two piece and runs in air.

[leekellerking]

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

Lee:
1-Just because a battery is new does NOT mean it is good!

But it IS under warranty!

2-To properly charge the battery TWO things are required:
a] A voltage higher than that which is in the battery and
b] a CURRENT CAPABALITY high enough to replace what has been "used up"
So, even though a voltmeter shows "enough output" if the alt does NOT have enough CURRENT output to go with the voltage, it aint gonna happen.

Yea, I should know that.

How do I check again?

3-consider this your personal lesson in electronics for the day
good luck!
PS: I trust you have checked wiring [grounds, etc]to be good.

Thanks for the lesson.

And no I haven't checked ground yet, but I will Sunday. (Camping tonight and Saturday, coming back Sunday).

Thanks, everybody, for your input.

[wanabeguru]

Lee, enjoy camping. Put the bike aside until you are back and relaxed! This type of problem begs basic tests be run. And the suggestion about ignition switch is GOOD. When it happens again, take your voltmeter and measure battery voltage AT THE BATTERY. A bad "kill switch" might be the culprit also. Back to testing. LOAD TEAST THE BATTERY AND THE CHARGING SYSTEM. Those answers will tell you if its a bat/chg problem or will point to a wiring/switch defect. Hope this helps.

[Gilk51]

Lee, have you considered getting a horse? (no electrics)

[Tracker]

the first solution that came to mind was a can of gas and a book of matches.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Tracker

the first solution that came to mind was a can of gas and a book of matches.

Make the bike bark - one giant WOOF

Lots of good advice - start simple

[leekellerking]

I just got back from Cycle Gear. The battery (a YUASA) tested bad so they replaced it.

I am still going to check the ground and wires in the headlight bucket. However, it may be that the battery was ruined when it ran down because of my last problem (the short heading into the regulator/rectifer.

Bad thing is, I will have to drive to work tomorrow.


Lee

Originally Posted by wanabeguru

Lee:
1-Just because a battery is new does NOT mean it is good!
2-To properly charge the battery TWO things are required:
a] A voltage higher than that which is in the battery and
b] a CURRENT CAPABALITY high enough to replace what has been "used up"
So, even though a voltmeter shows "enough output" if the alt does NOT have enough CURRENT output to go with the voltage, it aint gonna happen.
3-consider this your personal lesson in electronics for the day
good luck!
PS: I trust you have checked wiring [grounds, etc]to be good.

[leekellerking]

Of course, if it was just the bad battery, why would the blinkers stop working???

I installed the new battery and it is on the trickle charger. Tomorrow night I'm going to check the ground in the headlight bucket.

We will see what we will see.


Lee

Originally Posted by leekellerking

I just got back from Cycle Gear. The battery (a YUASA) tested bad so they replaced it.

I am still going to check the ground and wires in the headlight bucket. However, it may be that the battery was ruined when it ran down because of my last problem (the short heading into the regulator/rectifer.

Bad thing is, I will have to drive to work tomorrow.


Lee

[sbrogden]

Time to trade for a Yamaha

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by Desmo

I'll bet it is the ignition switch. Next time it happens, try switching the key to all positions and see if anything lights up.

Steve

Yeppers, sounds like you may have a broken wire to the switch.
Pull the tank and if you have a wiring diagram trace each wire, starting with the hot. Run it through your thumb and fore finger to see if stops the bike. "GENTLY, you don't want to induce problems by being hamfisted. BTW most "HOT" wires are coded with RED, after that they are switched and any color well do. Bug light from HF could help.

[dixonduke]

Maybe I missed it, but have you verified that the battery terminals are tight and free of corrosion?