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Returning to the Dirt

F-Ride

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Joined
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Location
San Antonio
First Name
Fred
Greetings,

I am strongly considering returning to the off-pavement experience. New to San Antonio, but been riding since my teens. Started on dirt bikes, and was so hooked, my first new vehicle purchase was a YZ125D :sun:

I have been reading TWT and Adventure Rider Forums - sharing in similar journeys of like minded riders.

I want to ride 80/20 (dirt/pavement) and favor the performance of a well suited dirt bike over less able enduro's, but still want a bike that can legally handle short pavement rides (< 50mi) to get to the dirt. I'm a little heavier, and slower than my younger years, but value a well built performance machine.

I have narrowed the playing field down to these contenders:

Yamaha WR250R (maybe 450)
KTM EXC350F

I recently rode a WR250 and found it had ample power to get and comfortably hold 70 mph on pavement. It seems to be well suited for the dirt and their engine has a great reliability rating. The EXC is 40lbs less and boasts 20 more ponies cradled in "works suspension" :clap: However I'm skeptical of its race performance maintenance requirements and reliability.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and exploring the San Antonio dirt-ways.
 
You picked two bikes that are apples and oranges. The Yamaha is a true dual sport and the KTM is pure dirt bike with a plate--one that is capable of lining up and winning races. That doesn't mean it can't be ridden like a dual sport.

If you are honest about your description of what you want to do, then the KTM would be the clear choice. It is a far superior dirt bike. You say 40 pounds difference--it will feel more like 75.

What is the reason for being a skeptic against the KTM? They are reliable as a stone. The 350 platform has been out several years now. You won't have issues.

Yes, you can find examples of crazy high mile WRs running around. That is what you should do with a dual sport bike like the WR.

It is honestly all a matter of intended use. You saying the WR seems "well suited" on the dirt means that you and me have different perspectives of what dirt riding is. If you want to pack up and go to Big Bend to ride Jeep roads, then get the WR. If you want to link technical single track via short pavement rides, then get the KTM.

I have nothing against the Yamaha 250. It is a great bike--the best 250 true dual sport on the market.
 
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^^^^nailed it! I have one and love it. It's not a street bike but I've done d/s rides on it when needed. I just stay around 60 and it's not too unhappy.
 
I rode with some buddies this past spring at BBRSP . One was riding a 350. The others were on a 690R, KTM 500 , and SilverBullet on a DR 650 :lol2:. That 350 is one very nice fast bike !!!!!!!!! :eek2:. And I also believe John summed it up.
 
Here you go. Won't let me post link??? KTM for sale on the board right now below near bottom.
 
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It is honestly all a matter of intended use. You saying the WR seems "well suited" on the dirt means that you and me have different perspectives of what dirt riding is. If you want to pack up and go to Big Bend to ride Jeep roads, then get the WR. If you want to link technical single track via short pavement rides, then get the KTM.

Well said.


If this looks like the riding you’re planning, then the WR is a great choice.

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But, if this looks like fun, you may want to consider the KTM 350 – 500 range.

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But, if this looks like fun, you may want to consider the KTM 350 – 500 range.

DSC03467.jpg

Pshawww... We could have made it down! :lol2:

By the way, I checked my NF map and from the top of the switchbacks down to where I was wanting to cross that creek, it is designated as a motorcycle only trail, which technically was not open until May 15th... :wary:

There were quite a few of the 350's at the recent Rubber Chicken Rally we attended in New Mexico. The routes had everything from easy pavement to nasty rock crawling. There were also quite a few of the new 500's. If you are a little heavier, I'd want the extra bit of grunt. I doubt you'd ever get into anything the 500 could not handle :shrug:

Here's some stuff that I did on my 530 just as a reference

That is the 350 shown here, but I came down it first on my 530
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350 coming up behind my 530
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350 behind me on the Rim Trail in Cloudcroft
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My 530 on a nice narrow section of the Rim Trail
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The 350 bringing up the rear
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There's a 450 EXC just around the bend beyond the dust
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The 530 and 450 went down this...
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and up a bunch of this...
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This is Fresno Canyon at the Big Bend Ranch & State Park, all three bikes did this,
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The 350 rider...
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The 350 chugging up a long and steep climb!
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The 450 and 530 both went through this loaded down with camping gear, in Montana
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Here's how it looked when doing the road in the above shots,
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:tab My point is that the larger bike is likely easily capable of 99% of the riding you are probably going to do. The only place that I have found the 530 to be too much is in REALLY tight, rooted, and sandy trails. It has incredible low end grunt, which is great for hauling around the weight of a rider and luggage, or just the rider on a day ride. It will run at 75mph all day long if you like and still get 45 mpg. Obviously, something other than a stock seat is needed if you ever want to have feeling in your buns again!

:tab The 500 EXC is the new and improved version of my 530 and has the FI. The specs show it around 245-250 lbs. The 350 is only about 9-10 pounds lighter. The 500 cranks out about 50 HP and 30-35(max) ft-lbs versus 45-50 HP and peak of 27 ft-lbs. However, the 500 makes its torque down lower and across a broader range of rpm. The 350 has to be revved up, and kept revved up, to get its peak torque. You can really lug the 500 which is nice for long hill climbs. I think there is only about a $1000 difference in price if you pay full retail. So I am not sure that going with the 350 would really be ideal for you, but I am sure you'd probably still have fun on it :trust:
 
Fantastic replies with picks!

John3 - Orange is definitely worth the price of admission. I have concerns with their posted service schedule; especially top end inspect/rebuild at 130 hrs. I used to replace the YZ ring about that interval, but that was way simple, and only about $25. I see what you mean by the type of terrain too.

Kickstand~prophet - I was viewing the 2012 exc350 & it sold. Man that was quick!

Tourmeister - Those look like some great rides. Thanks for Big-bore info. I haven't ridden anything that large and am used to spinning up the YZ in days of yesteryear.

I am strongly considering a trip to Oak Hill MX track (N of Dallas) this Sat to take part in Yamaha's Ride Demo. They are offering test rides of their dirt lineup. Will keep you posted.
 
Just a small follow up on Tourmeister points, although I've never ridden the harder stuff in the mountains but have climbed hills:lol

Price is only 200 dollars different at full retail, so that's a wash.

I had the 2014 KTM 500 EXC and currently have a 2015 350 EXC, I prefer the 350 for what I do as it's easier to ride in the woods, it's not all about the "little" less weight. For some reason the motor mass seems to matter.

Now flip that and you're riding a lot of open, faster stuff or a lot of backroads obviously the extra cc's help. That said, I'm running stock gearing on 350 and had to change the 500 gearing to be able to ride in SHNF. When this was done it was no better on the road than the 350. Both seem comfortable at 60 or just above. They'll go a lot faster but they are revving!!

As most folks know that have ridden offroad any amount of time, rider is a whole lot more important than the bike. TWT member "Gotdurt" will embarrass a lot of guys on his old DR 650, literally embarrass you.

I think with proper gearing on both bikes the 350 will climb about anything the 500 will, I know with me on it will because I'm not a mountain goat and not going to try that extreme stuff:) You will ring the 350 a little more.

Think about the "extreme" enduro events over seas, that stuff is as bad and in alot of instances worse than the posted pictures, I doubt if any pro is on a 500! faster riders love 350f's, 250 2T, and some of the guys will run the 300 2T. Heck Caney Creek enduro this year was won overall by a Yamaha 125 2 stroke. Bigger is not always better.

Get what makes you happy! Farkle it to your liking and go ride!
 
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Fantastic replies with picks!

John3 - Orange is definitely worth the price of admission. I have concerns with their posted service schedule; especially top end inspect/rebuild at 130 hrs. I used to replace the YZ ring about that interval, but that was way simple, and only about $25. I see what you mean by the type of terrain too.

Kickstand~prophet - I was viewing the 2012 exc350 & it sold. Man that was quick!

Tourmeister - Those look like some great rides. Thanks for Big-bore info. I haven't ridden anything that large and am used to spinning up the YZ in days of yesteryear.

I am strongly considering a trip to Oak Hill MX track (N of Dallas) this Sat to take part in Yamaha's Ride Demo. They are offering test rides of their dirt lineup. Will keep you posted.

KTM rings are good for over 200 hours, easy---and that is ridden as a true dirt bike. As a dual sport. even longer than that.
 
If you are looking for a place to ride, that's relatively close, I suggest joining Club DBSA. If you are looking for a challenge, I suggest Hidden Falls. If you are looking for someone to fart around with (and do skills development drills) hit me up! I love to ride, but need more people to ride with locally.
 
My KTM450exc with the RFS motor. The maintenance schedule on that was pretty harsh. I did check things out and watched it. I safely took it farther than they recommended. I rebuilt the top end at 420 hrs. I kept the fluids clean throughout its life. It was ridden hard and even raced several full seasons of Texas enduros. I ran it out of coolant during a super muddy race and overheated it pretty hard. I had a leak down test done on it. The valves and rings showed leakage. Before I did the work it still ran pretty well though. I decided it was time and ended up replacing the piston, rings, and re-coating the cylinder. I had the shop replace the intake valves and clean up the head. All that combined was around 650 with me doing the disassemble and reassembly and them doing the head work. I also replaced the cam (it was worn on the shaft and didn't quite seal correctly) though I likely could have gotten away with not replacing it. I did the cam chain just because. That added another 150 to the cost. It was easy enough to do the work myself. I also replaced the plastic water pump impeller. Parts were easy to get and did cost a more than a fair bit more than a 2 stroke re-ring. I think all said and done was close to 800 bucks, but 500 of that was the cylinder work and would be the same on a newer 2 stroke cylinder. I also go, a ton more hrs out of it than a two stroke. Very durable motor IMO. The newer version have a different and a little newer design, but I don't think of them as any less durable. Even with 450 hours on the motor it didn't know my fat butt was a seat. It had a lot of stink it and would lift it up in second out of a corner. After I freshened it up it was even more lively.

I plated that 450. I used it mostly for connecting trails I did a few 100 mile dual sport rides on it and you'd defiantly want a different seat on it if you did that often. It was geared pretty low so at an indicated 75 it was revving fairly high, but not intolerable. I primary used it for single track, so I never changed the gearing.

I think Rsquareds photos and description summed it up pretty nicely. :rider:
 
Yeah, the KTM is a race bike, with race bike maintenance schedule.... When its ridden as a race bike. My sub-100hr 2006 525 has MAYBE 2 threads showing on the tappets (meaning the valves haven't moved hardly at all). It's been ridden by a slow old fat guy (HE said he was slow, not me) and dual-sported by me.

They call to check valves every 20hrs, but checking doesn't mean you'll adjust them. RFS motors that are cared for, and jetted right easily can make 500 hours. Just get an 06 or 07. The newer ones are even better.

It may be more fun to ride a slow bike fast, but the fast bike that gets ridden slow will outlast the former.

Get a big KTM.

+++edit+++

Totally didn't see the part where you bought a wr before posting.
 
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Hmmm those 350 photos look familiar

I know folks like Brian can ride the WR at Red River and Bills Woods

WR is fuel injected and seems like a good choice compared to the KLR and XRL
 
Took my slightly modified WR250R named "Sparky" to BBNP the first week of Jan and absolutely had a great time. Sparky and I are a good match thus far. Looking forward to future explorations.
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Made a second outing on "Sparky" to BBNP joining the 9th running of Uncles around the Bend. Hauled Sparky on 500lb steel Hitch rack, installed on the Ridgeline - worked great. With 1,722 miles I though I would give an updated review of how we are getting along.

Sparky averaged 65+ Mpg, although I believe the speedo/odo are 6% too high and would estimate milage closer to 60mpg. (Will gps confirm someday). Thats carrying me & day pack load of 220lb.

Performance: The 250 had plenty of dirt power as I could feel the rear wheel easily break loose on modest 1/2 to 3/4 throttle application in in the first 3 gears. Although not enough power to throttle wheelie - but I need more practice on those. I was pleasantly surprised on how well it could chug along at lower RPM. While you can't grab a fist full of throttle and expect to leave ruts in your dust, it pulled enough to cruise up medium hills in one gear too high (low rpm) situations without worry of stalling. On pavement cruise speeds of 60-65 were comfortable, but soon as you encounter 15% grade or 15mph headwind it was time for 5th gear & 50-55 mph. Hey its a 250!

I truly believe this kept me from getting into too much trouble on the dirt and getting into a situation where I was going too fast and unable to recover. As a few times I needed to do moderate braking (controlled skidding) into sections where the road suddenly disappeared into a sharp corner - ha

Suspension worked GREAT. Even under my load on stock settings I was very happy. I did manage to hit a few things harder than intended but nothing bent or broke - to include pinch flats, or leaky fork seals. As my trust in its abilities combined with my confident novice skills increased I enjoyed a more moderate 3-4 gear pace & the suspension delivered a predictably-smooth ride over variable 2-6 inch terrain features.

So far I would rate the WR250R a 10. It is delivering all I expected from a solid-all-round 250 on class 1-2 dirt roads. While I'm not planning to use a 250 for "true" adventure trips (riding long, multi-day, cross-country routes on slab and dirt), I am planning multi-day, base-camp, day-loop type excursions to well known off-road destinations.

Stay tuned...

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Sparky at top of Black Gap Rd, Big Bend NP.
 
My son and I rode a WR250X for years and years, with 17" sumo wheels and occasionally dirt tires mounted up. He daily rode it to school 15 - 17 yrs old, then again in college. Now it belongs to a friend of his who rides it daily. In 30,000 miles we changed oil every year, about 5k miles. Adjusted valves at 20,000 (2 barely out of spec), used it as a roadracer at trackdays with sticky track rubber, and changed front pads twice, 2 chains and sprockets, one set of fork seals, and one minor seal. So, basically, almost no work in 30,000 miles. Amazing bike.

Now for the great news for you. Taking out the airbox top riveted in cover and adding a $300 slip on FMF pipe and removing the power valve from the mid pipe will give you a HUGE amount of power. Sounds silly, but with the EFI on the WR you can adjust the mixture by adjusting the CO output at idle using basic buttons on the stock gauge cluster. This allows you to richen up the bottom half of the rev range to suit the aftermarket pipe. Once we had the pipe, airbox, and EFI modded the bike made somewhere near 5-7 HP more. It would run 80 on the highway all day long, topped out at 97, and still got 60 MPG in mixed riding. One of the best bikes I've ever owned. My only video or picture of the bike.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l9-RIyxv-k"]Big Bend 2011 097 - YouTube[/ame]
 
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