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The Status of motorcycling in the U.S.

PJFZ1

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PJ
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Read here:

The Industry is hurting, for many reasons.. and looking for ways to improve.

and Corey Beth posed a very good question relative to some of the problems:

"Serious Question:

If you could have a production street bike that is not currently available, what would you want to be able to buy?

**Let me edit this a little.

If you could tell the industry to build any bike, that you would actually buy, what would it be?"

What would you say, in regards to what the industry could do, and to answer the "what bike" question?
 
A friend of mine at Fellows (the storage box and shredder people) said the reason they didn't get into iPad accessories when they first came out was because the product changed faster than they could release paper catalogs. They let the market pass them by because it didn't fit their marketing technology.

So I'd flip that on it's head and ask what region is buying motorcycles and what do they want to buy? The answer to the first is South and Southeast Asia and the second answer is small, economical and durable. Rather than breathing life into a market that is headed in another direction, either find where your product will sell (and how) or change products, to like ATVs.

So to answer the what bike question directly, I'd say an ATV/UTV.
 
A friend of mine at Fellows (the storage box and shredder people) said the reason they didn't get into iPad accessories when they first came out was because the product changed faster than they could release paper catalogs. They let the market pass them by because it didn't fit their marketing technology.

So I'd flip that on it's head and ask what region is buying motorcycles and what do they want to buy? The answer to the first is South and Southeast Asia and the second answer is small, economical and durable. Rather than breathing life into a market that is headed in another direction, either find where your product will sell (and how) or change products, to like ATVs.

So to answer the what bike question directly, I'd say an ATV/UTV.

nooooooo. lol
 
See what's lined up in front of most any bike shop......ATV/UTV's

Because they're too big to fit inside, lol. For price of a bad@@@ sxs you can buy a decent Jeep and be street legal.
Our series added them to the races this year, you should see the property when they're done, trashed. Thread lightly.
2 wheels forever. I'm glad everybody doesn't love them.
 
Because they're too big to fit inside, lol. For price of a bad@@@ sxs you can buy a decent Jeep and be street legal.
Our series added them to the races this year, you should see the property when they're done, trashed. Thread lightly.
2 wheels forever. I'm glad everybody doesn't love them.

I was looking at ATVs at APS in Dickson when they were splitting my chain and was stunned by the prices. Hate to see the market go that way, but I completely understand why the cagers see them as a reasonable alternative to off road motorcycles. Get on, press the button, turn the throttle. No messy shifting, putting your feet down plus you can carry garden tools, guns, etc.

As for city street bikes, I think Ducati has the best hope with it's scrambler line.
 
Because they're too big to fit inside, lol. For price of a bad@@@ sxs you can buy a decent Jeep and be street legal.
Our series added them to the races this year, you should see the property when they're done, trashed. Thread lightly.
2 wheels forever. I'm glad everybody doesn't love them.
I've been saying this all along. I could build a VERY nice Jeep for the money of some of these sxs's. Or buy one ready to go. They are handy but but I can drive my Jeep wherever I want to.
 
I originally got into motorcycles because it was cheap transportation. Cheap is a relative term. Inexpensive would be more like it. In the 70s a Honda CL450 was a big bad motorcycle. Then came the Honda 750four and the rest is history. A want is no longer determined by the manufactures but the government and lawyers.

If I could, I would want....

Basic and simple body work, no goofy not needed plastic farings and misc farkles that go with it all
.
Basic ANALOG gages with dials and big hands that are easy to read, Just a tach, speedo and ACCURATE fuel gage.

A 5 gallon fuel tank

17 inch aluminum wheels front and back

Dual disc up front, single in the rear

No goofy plastic covering the engine and no fancy high dollar engine finishes

Air cooled

Carbs would be nice to eliminate the complexity of EFI

Comfortable seat

Accessories that are AFFORDABLE, not priced liked they're gold plated.

80s, KZ1000 or GS1100 styling
 
Here's another note about CHEAP. I can buy a very nice 2017 used Chevy cruze with less than 20K miles that gets 34mpg with all the whistles for $15K. That's about the same price of a new Sport touring bike that you may only ride on the weekends. Just some FYI
 
Gosh, so much motorcycling product out there is just fantastic right now that there's so much I want and just not enough cash to buy it all.

I would say that I'd like to see them stop acting like such and such on the bike is worth a gazillion dollars. I can get a TFT screen for $13.00. Granted, you'd want something better and waterproof to put on a motorcycle, but let's be real, some extra modes, different tuning and a TFT display are not worth a couple thousand dollars.

As for what's not on the market, I believe it's coming...eventually, but an electric motorcycle with a 200 mile range, with decent luggage, and a 10 minute recharge time, or ditch the luggage option and give me a dirt bike with the same requirements.
 
I want to add on fuel gauges, and why you perceive it to be in accurate. Motorcycle tanks are not a similar shape from top to bottom. So areas the float may sit while 2 gallons drops. Then the next gallon it drops quickly due to reduced size in tank dimension.
You will never have a guage on a bike that works as well as a square tank.

I built the bike I wanted out of what was close enough.
 
I want to add on fuel gauges, and why you perceive it to be in accurate. Motorcycle tanks are not a similar shape from top to bottom. So areas the float may sit while 2 gallons drops. Then the next gallon it drops quickly due to reduced size in tank dimension.
You will never have a guage on a bike that works as well as a square tank.

I built the bike I wanted out of what was close enough.

That can be calculated and with computerized gauges these days it wouldn't be so hard to be accurate.
 
A want is no longer determined by the manufactures but the government and lawyers.

If I could, I would want....

Basic and simple body work, no goofy not needed plastic farings and misc farkles that go with it all
.
Basic ANALOG gages with dials and big hands that are easy to read, Just a tach, speedo and ACCURATE fuel gage.

A 5 gallon fuel tank

17 inch aluminum wheels front and back

Dual disc up front, single in the rear

No goofy plastic covering the engine and no fancy high dollar engine finishes

Air cooled

Carbs would be nice to eliminate the complexity of EFI

Comfortable seat

Accessories that are AFFORDABLE, not priced liked they're gold plated.

80s, KZ1000 or GS1100 styling

I don't totally agree with much of this.

Body work ... I think its a personal preference. I never had a windshield till about 10 years ago. I spent ages fighting the wind, bugs and rain. Ignorance was bliss in my case. But, I will say that the jenga puzzle of today's body work is a pain. But not as much pain as repairing and painting a dented gas tank.

As I've gotten older, big numbers on the alarm clock are much easier for me to tell the time, than small numbers and glowing hands. So a digital readout instead a sweeping hands on gauges or clock faces, on most things, is easier to comprehend.

I really don't care about the fuel tank level. I know my fuel range and reset a trip meter almost every time I refuel. A warning light when I reach 1/4 capacity would be sufficient.

I don't think I want to give up 2.5 gallons to install a 5 gallon tank. Nuff said. ;)

17" wheels front and back? So they can be rotated? I don't understand this at all along with dual front/single rear disc brakes. Most already have that.

As the riding public becomes more and more urban, the need for water cooled engines increases. I've overheated a bike in stop and go traffic. There was no escape ... none.

Carb vs EFI ... it's what one is comfortable with. EFI has become so reliable over the last 20 years. It has opened up the door to allow big power and big economy out of tiny packages. I find the electronics much easier to deal with than the Rube Goldberg package that is a carb. So many mechanical components have to work just right and dance altogether in order to work properly. Ethanol laced fuel has compounded that problem.

Seat and farkles ... for years, automakers were producing cars and trucks with "stuff" on them that the public would immediately replace. Wheels, tires, cosmetics, sound, handling, power adders ... they were giving away market share to the aftermarket. But the makers are wising up ... offering high-end style and components, taking away a lot of that aftermarket market. Smart. Why don't the MC manufacturers follow suit? Why sell a bike with non-existent or plain vanilla exhaust, seat, luggage and protection and let the farkle-makers cash in? As for cost ... with all the aftermarket options, production runs are relatively low which drives the cost way up.

MHO
YVMV
 
How about and electric sport touring bike with at least 300 mile range and weighing in at 500 lbs. Must have great weather protection and suspension. It comes with a seat that fits any ***** comfortably.

Not asking for much am I?

Ron
 
ATV's are more dangerous than 2-wheels. When one goes down, IT ALWAYS HIGHSIDES. It's lousy in turns. I don't want near one.
 
I don't think there's anything on the horizon that could turn the tides. The motorcycle market in this country is just too fractured for that "one bike" to even make a blip on the overall sales radar.

The only thing I could see coming close would be an electric bike that had the range, performance, and price of a roughly equivalent fuel burner. We're a long way from that. A Zero S with the power tank will get you close to 150 miles with 60 horsepower, but it costs almost $17K. That's a lot of dough for something that's not even up to the level of an SV650.

I truly think the manufacturers would be better off paring down the number of models they offer here. That's not cool for us, as we already miss out on some awesome bikes offered in international markets, but it seems like it would be in their best interest. Do we really need 35 Harley models that are all essentially the same, or four Duke models from KTM?

Perhaps selling fewer models in higher volumes could get the production costs down enough to offer a bike at a reasonable price and still maintain a decent profit margin.

I'm really just spit balling here. I don't study this stuff or anything, and I'm far from a business man. These are just my thoughts as somebody who likes bikes, but hates where the industry sits right now. It seems like there are a ton of bikes I'd like to have, but very few I'd be willing to pay the going rates for.
 
I don't totally agree with much of this.

Body work ... I think its a personal preference. I never had a windshield till about 10 years ago. I spent ages fighting the wind, bugs and rain. Ignorance was bliss in my case. But, I will say that the jenga puzzle of today's body work is a pain. But not as much pain as repairing and painting a dented gas tank.

As I've gotten older, big numbers on the alarm clock are much easier for me to tell the time, than small numbers and glowing hands. So a digital readout instead a sweeping hands on gauges or clock faces, on most things, is easier to comprehend.

I really don't care about the fuel tank level. I know my fuel range and reset a trip meter almost every time I refuel. A warning light when I reach 1/4 capacity would be sufficient.

I don't think I want to give up 2.5 gallons to install a 5 gallon tank. Nuff said. ;)

17" wheels front and back? So they can be rotated? I don't understand this at all along with dual front/single rear disc brakes. Most already have that.

As the riding public becomes more and more urban, the need for water cooled engines increases. I've overheated a bike in stop and go traffic. There was no escape ... none.

Carb vs EFI ... it's what one is comfortable with. EFI has become so reliable over the last 20 years. It has opened up the door to allow big power and big economy out of tiny packages. I find the electronics much easier to deal with than the Rube Goldberg package that is a carb. So many mechanical components have to work just right and dance altogether in order to work properly. Ethanol laced fuel has compounded that problem.

Seat and farkles ... for years, automakers were producing cars and trucks with "stuff" on them that the public would immediately replace. Wheels, tires, cosmetics, sound, handling, power adders ... they were giving away market share to the aftermarket. But the makers are wising up ... offering high-end style and components, taking away a lot of that aftermarket market. Smart. Why don't the MC manufacturers follow suit? Why sell a bike with non-existent or plain vanilla exhaust, seat, luggage and protection and let the farkle-makers cash in? As for cost ... with all the aftermarket options, production runs are relatively low which drives the cost way up.

MHO
YVMV

I agree with you especially on efi, why go backwards?
 
Royal Enfield Bullet EFI. $4999. No excess plastic. Front and rear wheels the same size (kinda.) Meant to run on bad fuel and worse roads.



...and requires everything it has to run on a highway, and you’d still be getting blown by. That kind of bike is never going to sell here in significant numbers.
 
Old UJMs are what we used to love. I love my Gixxer, it does what I bought it for. I love my SM's, they are fun and are total toys. Good luck riding an SXV more that 80 miles and still be saying, not bad! I also have a cruiser, which actually is fun to ride. Unlike Mitch, I prefer no windshield, I don't ride long distance, I like my scooters to handle well and to make me smile. Oh yeah, the Baby Bandit is a great example of a UJM from the 90's. Lots of stuff out there to love, you just need to pick your poison and go for it. The industry is getting a little silly with $30k touring rigs, and 25K Sport bikes, but they will sell what they can, and discontinue what they can't.

Right now, my DR-Z is the end all for me. I would love for Suzuki to go ahead and make a real supermotard bike and pre-farkle it much like was stated above.

Of course, I am old, probably not a lot of new scooters in my future, except for maybe a Tuono Factory, because I love Aprilias and I have never ridden a V-4.
 
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...and requires everything it has to run on a highway, and you’d still be getting blown by. That kind of bike is never going to sell here in significant numbers.

That touches on my point in an earlier post. Nothing like what we currently have is going to sell here in significant numbers. There are on average 500 different models of motorcycles for sale each year in the States over the past ten years, so the models are out there for any preference. The Howard Moskowitz problem of 'what motorcycle' seems already solved - at least from the traditional motorcycle point of view.

I'm still trying to sort out how YETI became an aspirational brand. It's on the back of pickups and SUVs, but I've never seen a Coleman or Igloo sticker. What makes a plastic locker worth bragging about to strangers?

My thought, if someone really wanted to make motorcycles interesting to the younger generation in the States, they would make it an extension of the thing that more and more Americans can't seem to visit the dunny without, the smart phone. It would have to be cheap and easy to ride, so a scooter; and the smart phone would become the display and ecu so people would have a gadget to play with. Maybe an electric scooter with a replaceable battery pack so one could charge while the other was in the bike. Anyway, they are already integrating smart phones into cars and exercise equipment and medical devices. Why not lead the masses in the direction they are already going? Riding is going to be a lot more fun if they don't have to put their phones down.

(And I know what some are thinking and there could be an app for that.)
 
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