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I became "one of those people" ...

It is 100% everyone's responsibility to police each other's driving. If you drive extremely dangerously, impaired, or aggressively towards me it is extremely likely I will stop you and take action. In the last 5 years I've pulled keys from an ignition and thrown them over a tall fence (Uncle's rally, Del Rio, to stop a child abduction), forced an elderly driver off the road (he was having a diabetic episode, others had followed him for 10 miles at 20 mph on 59 south), and barricaded a drunk driver (when cops could not respond and others followed for 30 miles).

If you make no effort and leave it up to the cops I place blame squarely on you and every bystander's shoulders for whatever happens next.

Judgement is needed. Like when to not be a sheeple, take action, and shove all responsibility to our 5.0 finest. I hate confrontations even more than the next guy, but we are a nation of laws.
 
It is 100% everyone's responsibility to police each other's driving. If you drive extremely dangerously, impaired, or aggressively towards me it is extremely likely I will stop you and take action. In the last 5 years I've pulled keys from an ignition and thrown them over a tall fence (Uncle's rally, Del Rio, to stop a child abduction), forced an elderly driver off the road (he was having a diabetic episode, others had followed him for 10 miles at 20 mph on 59 south), and barricaded a drunk driver (when cops could not respond and others followed for 30 miles).

If you make no effort and leave it up to the cops I place blame squarely on you and every bystander's shoulders for whatever happens next.

Judgement is needed. Like when to not be a sheeple, take action, and shove all responsibility to our 5.0 finest. I hate confrontations even more than the next guy, but we are a nation of laws.

Just out of curiosity, what if someone doesn't allow you to take their keys or otherwise impede their travel? Are you prepared to fist fight them? What if there are a couple of them in the car? What if they pull a gun? Are you prepared to fight multiple (possibly intoxicated) people, or prepared to shoot somebody who pulls a gun when you choose to directly intervene?
 
Just out of curiosity, what if someone doesn't allow you to take their keys or otherwise impede their travel? Are you prepared to fist fight them? What if there are a couple of them in the car? What if they pull a gun? Are you prepared to fight multiple (possibly intoxicated) people, or prepared to shoot somebody who pulls a gun when you choose to directly intervene?

Judgement is needed. I already said that. I'll gladly run from a gun or a fight I know I'll lose. I had a gun pulled on me once simply because I had a wallet. I wasn't robbed, I ran. I've never started, but also never lost, a fist fight as an adult. I am considerate, persuasive, mild mannered, and soft spoken. I am very afraid of many things, I admit that.

An example, a drunk driver I detained last year, I offered them the option of them calling a friend, or me calling the police. In the end I called police and my testimony was used to get a guilty plea on a 3 time offender. BAC was .28. They had driven 30 miles, hit 2 others. I swerved to avoid them as they almost rear ended me at 100+ mph. I saw they were drunk, forced them into the shoulder and blocked forward progress. They were too drunk to figure out how to reverse. 0.28. Almost comatose. Had they wanted to fight, or pulled a gun, who knows what might happened. But I would have realized this long before forcing them off the road.

There's a big difference between being a blind vigilante billy bad***** and being a responsible citizen. And small, but important, difference between knowing you should do something and actually doing something, when life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are threatened.

Cops are amazing, they don't have the same option of backing down, and I thank them for their service.
 
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"Your honor, from where I sat, all I saw was person, coming at me with the intent on confronting me. I saw no badge, he was yelling at me and attempted to run me off the road. I was afraid for my life, so I shot him. I'm sorry for his family and that his kids will never have their father there when they graduate or get married, but I truly feared for my life. Here is a copy of my LTC."

Think about that while doing your superiority, vigilante dance ... you scare me. And if you are dead, do you care if I am punished. Yer dead.

You are worse than the lady taking the photo I referenced initially ... not because you stopped a drunk or a fellow having a diabetic seizure, but someone who thinks it's their duty to intervene based upon some self-proclaimed knowledge, training and experience.

I will heed a policeman's orders ... I will defend myself from vigilantes. A vigilante is a vigilante to those being harrassed. Your inflated ego will result in a bigger billy bad-*** making you or someone around you pay a big price.

The drunk you stopped? call the cops, follow safely keeping them informed till they arrive. If the drunk has a wreck, it's not your fault. They made the choice. If you force them to run or react, well that's on you.

Glad you are in the greater Houston area and deeply saddened that I became someone just like you.
The difference between us is that I realized I was an idiot for doing what I did.
 
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http://www.king5.com/mobile/article...for-pulling-gun-on-motorcyclist/281-539655437

I'm sure most here have heard of this story.

This off duty, plain clothed cop pulls & points a gun on a motorcycle rider, & is lucky he didn't get shot by a passing motorist, thinking there was a robbery or motorcycle theft in progress. & then the cop only gets 5 days suspended; had it been anyone else, they'd be in jail for the foreseeable future.

The cop plainly had no cause to even get involved (other than making a phone call), much less point a pistol right at the guy. He's lucky nobody around had a gun, except for him. There's are many potential chances for him to get ventilated, & think of the cluster all that would entail.
 
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"Your honor, from where I sat, all I saw was person, coming at me with the intent on confronting me. I saw no badge, he was yelling at me and attempted to run me off the road. I was afraid for my life, so I shot him. I'm sorry for his family and that his kids will never have their father there when they graduate or get married, but I truly feared for my life. Here is a copy of my LTC."

Think about that while doing your superiority, vigilante dance ... you scare me. And if you are dead, do you care if I am punished. Yer dead.

You are worse than the lady taking the photo I referenced initially ... not because you stopped a drunk or a fellow having a diabetic seizure, but someone who thinks it's their duty to intervene based upon some self-proclaimed knowledge, training and experience.

I will heed a policeman's orders ... I will defend myself from vigilantes. A vigilante is a vigilante to those being harrassed. Your inflated ego will result in a bigger billy bad-*** making you or someone around you pay a big price.

The drunk you stopped? call the cops, follow safely keeping them informed till they arrive. If the drunk has a wreck, it's not your fault. They made the choice. If you force them to run or react, well that's on you.

Glad you are in the greater Houston area and deeply saddened that I became someone just like you.
The difference between us is that I realized I was an idiot for doing what I did.

And this is why the internet is the internet. Because judgement of situations in real life might sound like an ego trip in real life. In the case of the drunk I was thanked by eyewitnesses, the cop I flagged down, the prosecutors who watched the tape, and the assist DA. I was subpeonad for testimony. I pulled alongside the driver first to gauge the situation. I was careful. I called the cops. When she exited the highway I had to transfer departments, request new officers, wait another 30 minutes? I was on the phone with 911 the whole time. I did what I did cause she very likely was going to seriously hurt herself or others. I would have felt guilty for not doing anything had she.

Still not feeling like an idiot, or a vigilante. Still not saying anyone has the right to disagree. Simply stating bad things can happen if you just let them. Calling 911 is only as effective as it is.
 
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For such a public savant, with protecting others at your own personal risk internet attitude, there are a lot "I"'s in your response.

The internet allows you to espouse what you believe and I get to do the same thing.

In this case, I think you are on an island, sir.
 
For such a public savant, with protecting others at your own personal risk internet attitude, there are a lot "I"'s in your response.

The internet allows you to espouse what you believe and I get to do the same thing.

In this case, I think you are on an island, sir.

I only can speak for myself, so I's are necessary. You speak from Granbury, an area where pulling over a drunk on a highway late at night means a gun WILL be stuck in your face. And an officer is posted across from most bars and the Whataburger at closing time. And going 45 in a 35 will result in a ticket after sunset. I love Granbury, cool place, nice people. But in my opinion, one of the more over-policed small towns in Texas.

Try Houston where response time is sometimes measured in hours. Illegals hit and run daily. Child abductions happen. Gangs are. People look the other way. Guns get pulled for being in the wrong neighborhood. I've lived in big rough cities since way before cell phones and calling 5.0 was an option. I've always avoided trouble.

The drunk driver thing happened in suburban Phoenix. 2 pm. Sunny day. Minimal traffic. 50 yr old woman. Me in my mighty and scary road warrior Scion xb 1.5. As far as emotional involvement, I explained the situation in 10 seconds to the leo, handed him my business card, and left. Didn't witness the arrest. No vigilante overexcited drama. The DA laughed at my 911 recorded call saying I sounded like I was just going to the grocery store. The defense attny listened to my call and changed his client's plea from not guilty to no contest. Ask the average person on the street why getting a DUI is such a bad thing. Common answer is because it will cost them $10k. Wrong answer.

But you are 100% right that I do "live on an island". I'm ok with that. Karma has been good to me. So we can agree to disagree. I'll lend a helping hand when needed. We can still be friends. I respect your opinion. And I hope your LTC helps you protect a life, maybe even one other than your own, someday. Cheers,

Peter
 
Try Houston where response time is sometimes measured in hours. Illegals hit and run daily. Child abductions happen. Gangs are. People look the other way. Guns get pulled for being in the wrong neighborhood. I've lived in big rough cities since way before cell phones and calling 5.0 was an option. I've always avoided trouble.

Cheers,

Peter

Do you read what you write? :headbang:

Always avoided trouble ... yet you take law enforcement into your own hands. You destroy your own credibility.

Why do you live in Houston if it's as you describe? Is it for the morbid opportunity to be a hero?
 
Mitch, I read what I write. Do you? Sorry you have a chip on your shoulder about anyone taking charge for a dangerous situation and not just sitting on their thumbs waiting for the cops.

Thanks for calling me an idiot for your thinking I'm not able to comprehend I'm an idiot. And also calling me an (idiot) savant. And saying I am a vigilante superiority complexed dancer. And a morbid opportunist seeking wannabe hero. And saying my attitude is internet only based. And assuming when I acted I did so in a reckless attitude "coming at them", "intent on confronting them", "yelling at them". All these are your words.

I have always avoided trouble. I never take law enforcement into my own hands. But I refuse to let the innocent and weak suffer from the malice or stupidity of others. I am generally unaware of the code and letter of laws, but know right from wrong. And I act as a caring human would, not what the law dictates.

In total agreement with you I feel it is right to discourage other's taking the law into their own hands. I feel it is right to discourage vigilante behavior. But, I also feel it is wrong to encourage others to not act when action is clearly needed. To sit and watch. To record on a cell phone.

I feel bullying activity to try to convince them to stop acting in good conscious is not right. Calling names and trying to put others down who try to make the world a more compassionate, thoughtful, and safer place is similar to bullying activity.

I gave 3 examples of behavior in my recent life that you consider taking the law into my own hands. Let me tell you the outcomes. Tooting my own superiority vigilante idiot savant morbid opportunistic hero dancer yelling and waving horn and using the "I" word till its exhausted, LOL

1. I / we pulled the keys out of a mexican mafia guy's ignition as he attempted to flee with his infant daughter, who he had lost custody of and had never met, into Mexico, 1 mile away. Me and my best friend prevented him from taking the child. The other 50 diners at Denny's watched him take the child from a high chair, forcefully, push and yell at the mother, threaten Denny's workers, and throw the child into his vehicle. He made lots of threats, including with a weapon. Ultimately he left without the child, but with his keys, and his gun before the law arrived. The officer who responded thanked us. Mom was happy too.

2. I forced an elderly driver off the road. I saw him a half hour earlier driving 20 mph in the middle lane in 70 mph traffic. I made a pit stop. I got back on the road and saw him again 10 miles down the road. There were 2 accidents in his wake from other drivers hitting each other avoiding him. I gently forced him onto the shoulder. 6 other cars lined up behind us. He was incoherent, low blood sugar. We gave him juice and water. Cops showed up 5 minutes later. He slightly recovered. Paramedics showed up 10 minutes later. They gave him an IV, an injection, said he was critically low, near death and whisked him off to the hospital. The responding officer and the other witnesses who pulled over thanked me for taking action.

3. I prevented a drunk driver from driving into urban Phoenix. One who had driven 30 miles causing mayhem on rural roads. Without force, without drama, without a gun being pulled, or a fist fight, or even a scratch on our cars. No one got hurt. She didn't kill anyone that day. Despite driving 100 mph half passed out and slumped through red lights in Scottsdale. Maybe a 3rd DUI conviction will help her think straight about her actions. I was thanked by all parties for my actions, especially the ones too afraid to act who were recording video and calling 911. Everyone, except the drunk, validated my actions.

So, call me what you will. Yes, it bothers me that we don't see eye to eye on this, cause I feel I have very valid points under my palm tree. I know I did what was called for, what felt right, to me. Despite what thinly veiled insults you choose to toss my way I won't change my way of thinking. In fact, I may be a tad bit more afraid to act based on this conversation. Which is why I won't be checking this thread from here forward, cause we could just go on and on and on like I am now. But, I'm always open to a good conversation over a beer (I'll buy!) AFTER a good day of riding. But random insults in person will be met by me walking out and leaving you to pay the tab.

Adios amigos!
 
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