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Old 02-01-2006, 02:32 PM   #21
telcobilly
 
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

I'm happy to make a profession of my faith and it a double bonus to be among motorcyclists and Christians on this site. Keep up the work and may this site continue to flourish!

I have this link on my site: http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/k/rkretsch...nt.htm#culture
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:50 PM   #22
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Tourmeister, kudos for making this public.

Part of my start up routine is prayer. I never get on the bike until I've asked God to make me visible to those on the street, make them visible to me and bring me back to my family safe and on schedule. Like the AMEX card, I don't leave home without it.
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Old 05-20-2006, 08:04 AM   #23
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

I haven't been a member of this Forum very long but realized there was a positive attitude towards a belief in a higher Power. So, I joined this group.
Although I am a member of several other bike and Off Road Forums I must say this group of my local riders is a lot more comfortable to talk to. More positive attitudes here that encourage rather than belittle.

I have been a believer for many years. Thank God my parents taught me when I was young. Like many, I stepped out of bounds a few times, but have always come back to the center.

Thank you Scott for making this avenue available to us. It means a lot to me.

BTY, My Son is a Minister and my Daughter is a writer for a weekly womens online devotional magazine. They are that way because their Mother and I raised them that way. Carrying on the Tradition.

I won't carry my scriptures on my forehead, but I do have a small cross on my helmet. I feel it keeps me accountable for my actions.

God Bless you all, and safe and happy Biking.

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Old 10-22-2006, 07:33 PM   #24
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Great Job Scott. I'm glad I found this forum.

We all need prayer in our lives.

JT
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:22 AM   #25
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Scott,

I cannot fathom how anyone could NOT believe in God or Jesus, especially in our day and age of brilliant technology and science.

pk
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Old 10-23-2006, 12:39 PM   #26
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Thank you Scott. In this day and age where they are tryint to take GOD out of everything includig our money that many people, Christian or not, value as important, it is nice to see someone trying to put GOD back where he belongs.

My husband says that there is no such thing as an athiest in a fox hole. Too many people think about talking about GOD, but not many of us actually pass the word along (including myself)

Thank you for this and your strength and beleif. It helps keep the rest of us grounded.

Also, it has set an example for my daughter to show her that you can still ride a bike, be part of a group and praise and worship GOD!

All we need to do is plant the seed, GOD will take care of the rest!
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"When my mood gets too hot and I find myself wandering beyond control I pull out my motor-bike and hurl it top-speed through these unfit roads for hour after hour. My nerves are jaded and gone near dead, so that nothing less than hours of voluntary danger will prick them into life" T.E. Lawrence, April, 1923

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Old 10-23-2006, 01:06 PM   #27
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Great job Scott,,,,, and lets all think about.. Prayer should be the first response, not the last resort...

all ride safe,

Jim
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Old 10-23-2006, 01:27 PM   #28
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

i am not a very religious person but im impressed by people that believe and are not afraid to say so. and im impressed by an attitude of civility and good manners that is prevalent here. we can have lots of fun and listen to funny things on here without being rude or vindictive. i like that..
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:20 PM   #29
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Hond330, you can't win people's hearts by making enemies of them Christians are supposed to be patient and long suffering. The problem is we don't always match up to that standard simply because we are human, and like everyone else we have our failings. It took me a long time to understand that a person can believe in a perfect standard, point people to that standard, and yet fail to meet the standard. Their failure does not invalidate the standard, it just highlights the difficulty of striving for it I learned to look past the messengers to the message itself.
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Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

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"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:26 PM   #30
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Personally, I do not believe in a higher being. However, if you do I have no problem with it and have no problem with it being included as a section of interest in a forum that is for a large group of people of all races, nationalities and religions.

I think that a forum, such as this, is like a party of friends with varied conversations some I want to be a part of some I do not. I'll shy away from the ones that don't interest me, oil threads being top of that list. You'll get no negative comments from me regarding the prayer section.
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:22 PM   #31
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Wouldn't you rather believe in a Heaven and there's not!... Than to not believe in Heaven and there is... too late then
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:37 PM   #32
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer Geezer
Wouldn't you rather believe in a Heaven and there's not!... Than to not believe in Heaven and there is... too late then
If that was aimed at me, no. I live my life the same as any real Christian would, but I do it because it's the right thing to do, not under the threat of going to ****. Should there be a judgement day and they judge I think I would be OK. If it turns out I'm wrong, Oh well, but that's my choice. I don't need a lecture!
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:50 PM   #33
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

No.. it wasn't aimed at you or anyone eles... just merely making a statement as to how I feel. just like your stating all your feelings.. and no I don't lecture anyone... especially people who I know arent going to learn anything from my experience or wisdom that comes with age anyway... just my 2 cents worth..
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:39 PM   #34
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkiser
Scott,

I cannot fathom how anyone could NOT believe in God or Jesus, especially in our day and age of brilliant technology and science.

pk
I think Einstein said it best:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:52 PM   #35
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beverly200rider
I think Einstein said it best:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
When it really comes down to it, you really cannot prove anything 100%. People love, but you can't actually prove what love it! People have faith, but you can't actually prove 100% what faith is.

In the end, you either beleive or you don't. It is a personal choice and because mankind has free will, we all have a choice to make in this matter. However, my response to anyone who doesn't beleive is just try it. Say a prayer something like "Ok, here it goes, I am going to give this prayer thing a try. I ask for you to enter my heart and fill me with your love and grace. I ask you to forgive me for the things I have done wrong and the things I will still do wrong since I am not perfect. You died for me, a perfect stranger and you love me despite of what I beleive or don't beleive." After you are done, If it doesn't work then walk away. No one should force anyone to beleive anything. But just like food, you should just take a bite.

To be a believer, you don't have to go to a certain church or pray a certain way. You don't have to change everything about you. You just have to have faith.

I am not addresing this to anyone in particular, just putting my opinion in. Some of you will agree with me and some of you won't. That is what makes this country great, we have the option. All of us are created equal and no one is better than anyone else. When the time comes, we will all be countable for our actions. Personally, I am a beleiver and my husband isn't. Makes for great conversation. I don't love him any less. He doesn't love me any less. I respect his decesion (although it is difficult to have enough strength for both of us) and he respects mine. He supports me and our daughter going to church and doesn't ridicule us about it. I don't force it on him. I have planted the seed and the rest is up to GOD.

Anyway, I like the idea for prayer requests, prayer has never hurt anyone!
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For God did not give us the spirit of fear, but of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND II Timothy 1:7

"When my mood gets too hot and I find myself wandering beyond control I pull out my motor-bike and hurl it top-speed through these unfit roads for hour after hour. My nerves are jaded and gone near dead, so that nothing less than hours of voluntary danger will prick them into life" T.E. Lawrence, April, 1923

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Old 10-24-2006, 01:21 AM   #36
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry_77084
I live my life the same as any real Christian would, but I do it because it's the right thing to do, not under the threat of going to ****. Should there be a judgement day and they judge I think I would be OK. If it turns out I'm wrong, Oh well, but that's my choice. I don't need a lecture!
Larry, this is not an argument to convince you that you are wrong and need to believe. It is just a general response to your comment, which is a common sentiment in non believers. I would not presume to lecture an unbeliever because I was once an unbeliever as well, and nothing turned me off faster than some self righteous believer trying to cram his/her view of God down my throat

I don't do the right thing because of a fear of eternal condemnation either I did not choose to believe because of a fear of eternal condemnation. After all, for the fear of condemnation to matter, you first have to believe there is a Judge to condemn. For me though, the issue of "doing the right thing" or following some list of rules is not even a consideration. It is about a personal relationship. If that relationship is right, everything else just sort of flows from it naturally. I personally do not believe you can argue anyone into believing. I could tell you all about my relationship, but you'd never really understand it until you experienced it for yourself. This is why God cannot be forced on people. If both parties to a relationship are not willing, then there can be no intimacy, only coercion.

Pain and suffering is obviously a major issue in this world. It would seem there are very few, if any, people in this world that will be exempt from pain and suffering. This is a big part of why we have this prayer request section. However, there is that unavoidable question of how could a good and loving God allow such pain and suffering? Some people argue that it is God allowing for the free will of mankind to work itself out in this world. Some would argue that if there is a God that is all knowing, there can be no free will since He already knows everything you will decide before you have even decided it.

This is something I wrote in a recent discussion I was having with someone else on a different forum regarding free will and the presence of pain and suffering in the world as proof that a good and loving God does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourmeister
If there is no God, then there is nothing but absolute determinism. All effects are the results of previous causes, ad infinitum. Once again, there can be no free will. Quite the pickle...

If there is no God, then pain, suffering, and evil are illusions. Without a basis for moral law, how can anything be classified as right, wrong, good, or evil? How can one argue that the pain and suffering of someone is undeserved or unjust? Such an argument presupposes an eternal, external and independent basis for morality. Using the presence of pain, suffering and evil as an argument against God is illogical because such things could not truly exist without God. That pretty much every human alive believes there are things like evil, pain, suffering and injustice would seem to argue in favor of God and the existence of free will. If there were no free will, there would be no way to rebel against God to create all the evil, pain, suffering and injustices.

If in fact there is a God as the Bible sets forth, then a perfect Judge, in possession of the Truth regarding all aspects of all injustices, and with the power to make fully informed decisions regarding the dispensing of justice awaits us all. For a believer, pain and suffering is just a temporary thing to be endured in light of the knowledge that all things will be set right in the end. It does not mean a believer goes looking for it, but it does mean that a believer can see past it.

Pain and suffering seen in the secular sense is unjust because there can never be satisfaction for wrongs once committed. Once we die, that is the end. Unless of course one believes in Karma and reincarnation, which begs the question of who is it that keeps track of our Karma, that determines what is or is not good/bad Karma, that makes the decision about who or what we come back as in the next life, or when we have finally reached the point where we can get off the merry go round?

Truth cannot abide falsehood. Just as a universe of total darkness cannot keep the smallest light from shining, all the falsehood in the world is powerless against a simple Truth. If our lives are built upon falsehood, then we have reason to fear the Truth if we prefer the falsehood. Yet if we desire to live according to Truth, then there is nothing to fear. It is a question of which way we are going, away from the Truth or towards it? If God is Truth, he does not create fear in people just for jollies. He does it by His very nature as being the essence of Truth. The wise person learns to search for and recognize Truth because a life built on falsehood will shatter on the anvil of Truth. This pain and suffering can be far worse than physical pain and sufferings we might experience.
The last paragraph in particular gets to your point of the threat of condemnation. Condemnation is not hung over unbelievers as a threat by some arbitrary and capricious despot. It is based on the inherent nature of God as the foundation of Truth in the ultimate objective sense. If a person choses not to accept God as Truth, then God has no choice but to separate them from Himself, for as I mentioned in the quote, Truth cannot abide falsehood. Holiness cannot abide unholiness. If people are unwilling to accept God as Truth, He will not force Himself on them and will honor their choice. Whether such condemnation will entail a literal torment of fire and brimstone is up for speculation. However, I can't see how any physical torment could ever be as bad as the torment of knowing the real Truth and then being apart from it

I can totally respect anyone that is a non-believer. It was a long hard road for me to come to the point where I believed. I never experienced any kind of shazam conversion on the spot. I was quite militantly athiestic and over the years came to believe, being dragged kicking and screaming every step of the way. I challenged everything at every point. Eventually, I reached a point where I could no longer deny what I perceived to be the Truth and I willingly changed my orientation. The faith is strong some days and weak on others. BritishSteele has a point. She says to just pray a prayer. Ironically, even doing that means that you have to allow for the possibility that there might be someone there to answer. All I can say to any unbeliever is seek for yourself. I sincerely believe that if people genuinely look for answers, they are there. No one can do that for you. So I am always willing to answer any questions that I can which are put to me regarding my beliefs and the reasons for them, but I don't feel compelled to force them on others.

Getting back to the pain and suffering. Maybe it is true that God is allowing the results of our combined free wills to work themselves out in this world. Perhaps that is a way for him to show us what the fruits of our own efforts can achieve For many people, it is the very presence of pain and suffering that brings them to the point in their lives where they a forced to concede that they really don't have all the answers and they really are not in control. This can be the point where they are finally willing to accept the possibility that there might be a God, one that has reached out to us, and to begin their own journey of personal discovery. For others, it is the final point of despair and they may end their lives. I don't go looking for pain and suffering, but I don't run from it either. I see it as an inevitable part of life and when I pray, surely I pray for relief from it, but more importantly, for the grace to deal with it. It will only be for a season.
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-24-2006, 12:18 PM   #37
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Comments like this,
Quote:
and no I don't lecture anyone... especially people who I know aren't going to learn anything from my experience or wisdom that comes with age anyway...
are condescending and insulting.

The way I look at it, if religion gets you throught the day or over the tough spots good, there is nothing wrong with it. Just leave me out of it.
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Old 10-24-2006, 12:51 PM   #38
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Very good post Scott. Thank you very much for sharing your experience and thoughts.

I have been all over the map with my religiousity over the course of my life. I continue to try and lead a good life, being a positive influence on people around me.

I have a curious answer to questions about my "faith". My answer is to point out that I "know" God exists, it is not a matter of faith for me. I don't have the slightest idea about whether or not Heaven and **** exist, and really don't care at this point. Perhaps pondering that issue will be more important as I approach closer to the "final exam". In any case, for now I am happy trying to always be a good and positive force on earth. Somedays my success is better than other, but I continue to try.

I ask often for strength and guidance and feel a peace that only comes with prayer.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:19 PM   #39
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry_77084
Comments like this, are condescending and insulting.
+1
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:12 PM   #40
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Re: Has Scott lost his mind?

Happy Birthday Jonathan
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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