Interested in a no pavement Mexico trip?

I've set my mind on riding in Mexico this year, and plan on doing the ride to Galeana in October. The more I thought about it, the less I wanted to wait that long, Unfortunately, I can't do the planned ride to Jalpan in April.

So, I started reading reports both here and other places. Among other things, Mina 4 Palmas really stoked my imagination, along with a southern route to Big Bend. Time constraints and logistics rule out Big Bend for me this time.

Here's the thing. I'm looking for one or more adventurous souls who aren't afraid of a route that will have no motels or other niceties. They would also be able to accept that the route is not going to be all paved or caliche roads. In fact, we won't see any pavement at all. Although the bulk of the route I've mapped out is on relatively decent dirt roads, there will be stretches where the road runs in (hopefully) dry stream-beds and possibly even short stretches of cow path type trails. We may hit a dead end or two that we will have to work our way around. There are no indicated gas stations along the route, but it does go through a few villages that have had fuel available according to various ride reports I've read recently.

About me: I'll be on a KTM 450EXC. I would not want to do this on a big bike. Having spent about 24 years as an Airborne Infantryman, I'm pretty comfortable with not being comfortable all the time. I'm not much of a technical rider, but I get along alright.
I would consider myself above average when it comes to old school and modern navigation. I've been using maps and compasses since I was a kid in Montana, and I've been using GPS well before they had all the satellites up in the sky and operational)
My shortcomings for this ride are several:
I don't speak Spanish beyond a very small handful of simple phrases. I've traveled to a few countries, including Panama and Honduras, without speaking much and managed to get along well enough though.

I've never traveled in Mexico beyond a couple trips years ago to a couple border towns, and never drove a vehicle or rode a motorcycle there.

My biggest concern is that I just don't know Mexico or the local Mexican culture. With all the news about what sometimes happens there, I'm not comfortable going alone. My usual riding buddy has flat out refused to go.

I'd like to travel with someone who's easy going, flexible, knows at least enough Spanish to get by, and has traveled through extremely rural areas in Mexico and is familiar with the local customs and courtesies. Frequent stops for pictures or just to admire the scenery and stretch, without a need to furiously ride to get somewhere is my usual pace.

I've attached a very general route for discussions sake, but I do have an extremely detailed route already drawn up, along with some backup or alternate paths in areas that look a little iffy to me. Starts in Del Rio, cross the dam, west to Morelos (gas?), SW to Jaboncillos (gas?) across the mountains, NNE through hills and valley to the Minas 5 Palmas, back down to Morelos, and then return to Del Rio.

Looking at the roads, distances, and my style, it looks like it would be about a 4 day trip with a 5th day just in case. I don't have a tentative date other than we would probably leave Del Rio on a Friday morning and get back there sometime Monday.

Anyone interested in participating in this adventure?

Hmm, sounds like a good time...paging kayakkawakid to the white phone.

I may be interested, good on all the above except my detestable Espanol.

Try mapmyride.com to build out the routes - www.mapmyride.com

I added the complete track that I have in mind to the original post. It's generally accurate to about a meter which is about the max resolution we mere mortal civilians are privy to right now in most cases.

I've tried mapmyride, but I find it too spammy and cluttered.
I use a combination of Google Earth, NASA, ArcGIS, Bing, and several others to check data, and I use http://www.gpsvisualizer.com to convert everything over to GPX for upload to my GPS, which is currently an Iphone with the Motion-X GPS app.
Except as a backup, I think I'm done with Garmins and the like for off-highway use.

Looking good, I love gpsvisualizer but have had less success using an iPhone in place of my Garmin. The 2 major issues were lack of screen brightness and the phone over heating in full sunlight.

Incidentally, what is (to my mind) the best GPS for mobile devices is now available for iOS.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/osmand-maps/id934850257?mt=8

I like the bypass but live by the off-road rule of "when there's fuel, top off" even with my Exxon Valdez sized tank.

As for Mexico itself, the best thread on the subject is Tricepilot's "Is Mexico Safe?" over on ADVRider. The large consensus is that provided you apply some street smarts and avoid being out later at night all you'll meet are charming, helpful, wonderful people.

philipbarrett said:

Looking good, I love gpsvisualizer but have had less success using an iPhone in place of my Garmin. The 2 major issues were lack of screen brightness and the phone over heating in full sunlight.

Incidentally, what is (to my mind) the best GPS for mobile devices is now available for iOS.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/osmand-maps/id934850257?mt=8

I like the bypass but live by the off-road rule of "when there's fuel, top off" even with my Exxon Valdez sized tank.

As for Mexico itself, the best thread on the subject is Tricepilot's "Is Mexico Safe?" over on ADVRider. The large consensus is that provided you apply some street smarts and avoid being out later at night all you'll meet are charming, helpful, wonderful people.

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Particularly for a trip like this, I agree that it would be foolish to bypass an opportunity for fuel. The bypass is there in case there turns out to be no fuel in Morelos, or if we are able to find fuel near the Agua Chile mine or the village Venustiano Carranza.

I haven't used the OSRAM app but have heard a lot of good things about it. Very comparable to the Motion-X. I can't remember what pushed me to decide to go with the Motion-X over it, but I've been using it for a while now and have become pretty comfortable with it.

I haven't had a problem with my iPhone overheating, but it wasn't all that terribly hot here last summer. The screen brightness is a bit of a problem, but I've found by using the right colors for my tracks, I'm usually OK.

I've poured over many of Tricepilots and others posts both here and on ADV rider. Almost wish I hadn't! It's a lot easier to just stick to moto-parks and Back Country Discovery Rides!

Safety is a huge concern of course but every place I've been in the world, respect and common courtesy have always gone a long way. I've found that most people generally want to be friendly and just get along.

Not to diminish the type of violence that does occur south of the border, but last year in San Antonio alone, there were 94 murders, 5465 Aggravated Assaults, and 1986 robberies, and there were nearly 6200 vehicles stolen.

crchristo said:

Not to diminish the type of violence that does occur south of the border, but last year in San Antonio alone, there were 94 murders, 5465 Aggravated Assaults, and 1986 robberies, and there were nearly 6200 vehicles stolen.

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Exactly, you should read foreign guidebooks regarding travel in the US!

When did u want to ride south of del rio?

What are temperatures going to be like in the coming months?

That area im going to say is very similar to bigbend so no summer riding, may would be da last ride time frame until sept when its cooler again

kayakkawakid said:

That area im going to say is very similar to bigbend so no summer riding, may would be da last ride time frame until sept when its cooler again

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I don't have any set dates, but this spring before it gets way too hot. I'm pretty flexible what with the slowdown in my industry now. Sometime in March sounds pretty good to me if I can find some folks that are able to go.

There's one point in particular on the route that has me a bit puzzled, and maybe a bit concerned. I've attached the POI.
It just looks out of place to me. It could be just a very nice house, a resort, or maybe a place that would best be avoided.

If it's the latter, that would really screw up the route.

I welcome your thoughts.

I'll throw out a contrasting idea. Galeana lite. Load up on a Friday afternoon. Roll down to mcallen, spend friday night getting your permit, sleep in mission at Studio 6 or maybe at zeke's. Ride Saturday to Galeana via Rayones. Return Sunday via Monterrey and caballo falls. 36 hours in Mexico. Home in S.A. by midnight. Grab me or zeke or pb or anyone who knows the deal to go along. You'll spend $250 total. And you'll get all your ducks in a row for the hows and whys of Mexico on a bike. And you'll have a blast.

Also, in small town Mexico, hotels are incredibly cheap. $20 max. A hot shower and fresh sheets make it a no brainer for me in Mexico. They have free wifi for planning your next day's trip.

Just keep in mind anything south of the border will take 3 times as long as you expect....when things are still going accordingvto plan.

Once you get your feet wet, then plan your big ride.

Shadman said:

I'll throw out a contrasting idea. Galeana lite. Load up on a Friday afternoon. Roll down to mcallen, spend friday night getting your permit, sleep in mission at Studio 6 or maybe at zeke's. Ride Saturday to Galeana via Rayones. Return Sunday via Monterrey and caballo falls. 36 hours in Mexico. Home in S.A. by midnight. Grab me or zeke or pb or anyone who knows the deal to go along. You'll spend $250 total. And you'll get all your ducks in a row for the hows and whys of Mexico on a bike. And you'll have a blast.

Also, in small town Mexico, hotels are incredibly cheap. $20 max. A hot shower and fresh sheets make it a no brainer for me in Mexico. They have free wifi for planning your next day's trip.

Just keep in mind anything south of the border will take 3 times as long as you expect....when things are still going accordingvto plan.

Once you get your feet wet, then plan your big ride.

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Thanks for the input. Although it would make a good ride, it's really not what I'm trying to do. The route to Galeana through Rayones looks great but it ends up being more of a road blast to get to a destination. I'm looking forward to doing it in October.

For this trip, I'm not really looking for a destination. The sheer remoteness of the route I'm looking at is its own attraction. There's a good chance that even given the 4 days I'm estimating, the route is simply not achievable. I'm OK with that.

Part of this might stem from experiences I've had in the highlands along the Honduras/Nicaragua border. Different life, different times. In spite of the bad things going on there at the time, I was struck by the sheer isolation and remoteness. The very few villages that were there were without electricity, running water, or much else, for that matter. Roads were virtually non-existent, and those were little more than goat paths. The few locals that I had the opportunity to interact with were some of the kindest people I've ever met, offering to share what they had so little of.

crchristo said:

....Part of this might stem from experiences I've had in the highlands along the Honduras/Nicaragua border. Different life, different times. In spite of the bad things going on there at the time, I was struck by the sheer isolation and remoteness. The very few villages that were there were without electricity, running water, or much else, for that matter. Roads were virtually non-existent, and those were little more than goat paths. The few locals that I had the opportunity to interact with were some of the kindest people I've ever met, offering to share what they had so little of.

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I spent 10 days in El Salvador Dec 2014. Same thing you describe. We bought 100cc bikes and toured the nether regions of the country, the ghettos of San Salvador, and land controlled by gangs where we got advance "permission" to come and visit friends in town. It was amazing, scenic, remote, poor (guys on wooden wheeled skateboards rolling firewood downhill, cut with machetes in boxer shorts and torn tees only), and the people were amazing to us.

I understand your hesitation to not do a there and back highway excursion to Galeana, but rather to get off the beaten path. And I understand from your post that you aren't the average bear in terms of sense of adventure and willingness to try something risky and rewarding. I've elk hunted in winter in Montana and if you can navigate there, in the clouds, in the foothills, in the cold dreary mud....you can do it anywhere. But I can tell you firsthand there is also something remote and magical about the N.L. mountains that is hard to capture. Doing it in a group of 20 - 30 makes you feel like an adventurer. Doing it solo or with a friend is total freedom. It's Mexico, you can pretty much do what you want.

I look forward to seeing you on the Galeana trip in October. There are a couple of roads I want to explore that I need experienced outdoorsmen who would love to have to camp because we didn't make it back to civilization. You can ride all day long, run up a river for 20 miles, explore a mountain, relax on a 200 by 200 foot town square in a 1000 year old town where some folks don't even speak spanish and the y haven't seen a gringo since last year, etc, etc... You get the idea.

Make sure you get in touch with Milton Otto. He took the Mexico route to Uncles a few year's back and we didn't see him until the last day of the rally. He gave everyone a good scare. He rode goat paths, encountered scary guys, and showed up 2 - 3 days late.

All that said, it was an adventure!!! Count me in, if the timing works out.

Shadman said:

I spent 10 days in El Salvador Dec 2014. Same thing you describe. We bought 100cc bikes and toured the nether regions of the country, the ghettos of San Salvador, and land controlled by gangs where we got advance "permission" to come and visit friends in town. It was amazing, scenic, remote, poor (guys on wooden wheeled skateboards rolling firewood downhill, cut with machetes in boxer shorts and torn tees only), and the people were amazing to us.

I understand your hesitation to not do a there and back highway excursion to Galeana, but rather to get off the beaten path. And I understand from your post that you aren't the average bear in terms of sense of adventure and willingness to try something risky and rewarding. I've elk hunted in winter in Montana and if you can navigate there, in the clouds, in the foothills, in the cold dreary mud....you can do it anywhere. But I can tell you firsthand there is also something remote and magical about the N.L. mountains that is hard to capture. Doing it in a group of 20 - 30 makes you feel like an adventurer. Doing it solo or with a friend is total freedom. It's Mexico, you can pretty much do what you want.

I look forward to seeing you on the Galeana trip in October. There are a couple of roads I want to explore that I need experienced outdoorsmen who would love to have to camp because we didn't make it back to civilization. You can ride all day long, run up a river for 20 miles, explore a mountain, relax on a 200 by 200 foot town square in a 1000 year old town where some folks don't even speak spanish and the y haven't seen a gringo since last year, etc, etc... You get the idea.

Make sure you get in touch with Milton Otto. He took the Mexico route to Uncles a few year's back and we didn't see him until the last day of the rally. He gave everyone a good scare. He rode goat paths, encountered scary guys, and showed up 2 - 3 days late.

All that said, it was an adventure!!! Count me in, if the timing works out.

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Awesome! You get it, for sure. I was just up in Montana and Idaho last month visiting family.

Much of the inspiration for this route was after reading Milton's posts about a similar route. Other than his potential fuel points, I didn't try to recreate his route but it looks likely that some of it will be on the same trails, streams, or roads. The areas where it appeared he had the most difficulties, will be done in the opposite direction.
I would jump in to this solo, but there are just too many unknown risks for me given my non-existent language skills. Maybe that's something I'll work on a little bit this year. I think a small group of 2-5 would be great.

I'm still working out work and family things, but I'm leaning towards late March, early April for this trip. I'm pretty flexible and would be able to adjust to just about any weekend during the last two weeks of March through the first two weeks of April. I could probably even go a little later into April.


I'll pack my compass and water purifier kit for Galeana come October! Sounds like a great time. I'm in for that sort of stuff!

Unfortunately most of the more adventurous guys interested in Mexico will be doing the rundown in early April, not sure if you can scrounge up a partner or 4 on this board, haha. Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd take an intro trip to Mex first. Even day one of "The Rundown" to Tula with the group, and then back to Galeana, and then home, would be well worth the time and expense. I'll just leave you with a few pics:

An hour south of Monterrey, after a 5+ mile hairpin descent on mountain roads:



A the top of that road:



Riding near Rayones:



Typical mountain town south of Galeana:



$20 hotel view, Galeana:

Also, I am moving to Phoenix a little bit at a time over the next 3 - 4 months. Could easily bring my XCRW 450 and detour to do at least a couple of days in the dirt exploring with you!

this trip will bikes need to be plated ?

TECH51 said:

this trip will bikes need to be plated ?

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Refer to "The Rundown" thread for bikes in Mexico. You can only get a bike into mexico if you:

1: Attach it to a truck TVIP permit for the transport vehicle you are taking it down in, them use the bike only offroad. If ridden on road it can be confiscated.

2. It is "street legal", with current registration, in your name, with no liens (unless signed off by lienholder).

Most bikes going to Mexico will be plated unless for motocross type competition only.

TECH51 said:

this trip will bikes need to be plated ?

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Yes...and you'll need Mexico insurance and a TIP in addition to your passport. If these sound confusing head on over to http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/is-mexico-safe.546927/ and start with Post #2.

crchristo said:

For this trip, I'm not really looking for a destination. The sheer remoteness of the route I'm looking at is its own attraction. There's a good chance that even given the 4 days I'm estimating, the route is simply not achievable. I'm OK with that.

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I like the cut of your jib my man!

I'm out.....

crchristo said:

The sheer remoteness of the route I'm looking at is its own attraction. There's a good chance that even given the 4 days I'm estimating, the route is simply not achievable. I'm OK with that.

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I finally had a chance to look at your route on google earth. If you detour a bit south it looks like there is more good stuff and more scenic stuff. But your route definitely takes you on the road less travelled, but it appears a lonely straight, ranch and farm crossing route. My gut is lots of ranches equals lots of questions and some risk. Still wrapping my interested head around it.

Shadman said:

I finally had a chance to look at your route on google earth. If you detour a bit south it looks like there is more good stuff and more scenic stuff. But your route definitely takes you on the road less travelled, but it appears a lonely straight, ranch and farm crossing route. My gut is lots of ranches equals lots of questions and some risk. Still wrapping my interested head around it.

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Yeah, I thought about that, and is certainly a main reason why I'd like to have someone along that knows more about that than I do, and has at least some communications ability. Lots of ranches that would need to be cut through. Even though my bike and I break out in rashes at the thought of asphalt, I originally tried to find a workable route that would take me down to Santa Eulalia and head west or southwest from there, leading in to the mountains a lot quicker.

The problem is that I've not been able to find a route that looks like it has a good chance of success going all the way through, that far south. I'm still poking around, but keep coming up a bit short. I've been able to find a few 80-90% solutions. My American mind tells me that a road just can't end there, but it also tells me that it's not an American road.

I'm going to keep looking, but so far, what I've posted is all I've been able to find that looks like it crosses the range completely with a pretty good probability of it being achievable. I'm confident that there is some other way to do it. I just haven't found it yet.

Shadman said:

Unfortunately most of the more adventurous guys interested in Mexico will be doing the rundown in early April, not sure if you can scrounge up a partner or 4 on this board, haha. Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd take an intro trip to Mex first. Even day one of "The Rundown" to Tula with the group, and then back to Galeana, and then home, would be well worth the time and expense. I'll just leave you with a few pics:

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Without a doubt, an intro ride is a sound idea but it looks like even if you just bang on down the highway directly to Tula, it's a straight 5-6 hour haul. I'm dreading the October haul from Reyones to Matemorelos but the payoff after that looks to be more than worth the pain! Honestly, I'm not up to blasting all the way to Tula on my little KTM. Plus, I can only get away just so often due to family and work commitments. I have to really try to make my limited "getaways" as good as I can.

I'll be out in Phoenix for my nephews HS graduation later this year. I'm trying to figure out a way to sneak the bike on the truck instead of flying, without ending up in a divorce!

Ur 450 is better than my 400 to blast down hwy, peter took his 223, galeana is worth the stiff ride, crossing many ranches is not a good idea especially in remote border villages, could be asking for trouble, da interior of mex is much more moto trespassin friendly...