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Old 10-10-2017, 08:33 AM   #1
Held357
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Kinda new from Houston

Been out of the loop for a few years. Lost both bikes (vstrom and KLR) in Harvey. Fortunate enough to replace them with a new KTM 690 Enduro R. Looking forward to doing some more riding on my new toy.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:30 AM   #2
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Sorry about your loss; a lot of good folks were impacted by Harvey Welcome to TWT. Nice replacement ride you picked.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:59 PM   #3
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Welcome to the site!

It's sucks losing bikes like that, but I'd say you made a great choice for a bike to replace a KLR and Vstrom! I have had both of those bikes. I had a great time with each, but the 690 has them both covered pretty well. It is quite capable in rougher terrain and still able to handle highway miles easily. On a recent trip to Montana and Wyoming for the BOM 2017 ADV rally, I'd say at least half of the 50 or so bikes at the event were 690s (and a few Husky 701s). Two of the 690 riders were in my group. That trip included some pretty challenging unpaved stuff and some sections of pavement that were nice and twisty and some that were long and boring. The 690s ate it all up with no problem.
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:04 PM   #4
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

That's great to hear. My wife and I rode two up on the Strom to Colorado this past summer. We did Cinnamon Pass and a few other trails. Seeing all of the smaller bikes really got me wanting something a little more manageable off road. I've only had the 690 a few weeks but I'm loving it so far. Pulls like a train and is lighter than both. Looking forward to getting her dirty!
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:43 PM   #5
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

The last time I was on Cinnamon Pass, I was in a jeep with my wife and kids. We were passed by a couple riding two up on a 690... I talked with them when we reached Animas Forks. The passenger was his wife and she was on the small side, maybe 125-150 lbs with all her gear. But,they were not carrying luggage. With a passenger that might be more in the 150-200lbs range or his wife with luggage, I think the stock suspension would be reaching the limit of what it could handle. That said, the two 690s riding with our group in Montana/Wyoming were loaded down like pack mules and still did well.

The trick is to find a spring that can handle your weight with gear when riding solo when it is at minimum preload and that can handle your weight and gear plus a passenger and gear when set at max preload. That can be a real challenge and will most likely involve some compromise on each end of the range. Once you find the right spring, something like this will make life a LOT easier,

http://www.motosport.com/xtrig-prelo...mmy_source=pdp

It replaces the stock preload adjusting collars so you don't need a special spanner tool to adjust it. With this, you can just put a regular socket on it and quickly adjust it.

Being able to adjust the rear preload on my 1200 GS for a passenger/luggage has a significant impact on the handling, on pavement and off pavement. The GS has a remote preload knob so I can adjust it without tools. Adjusting it on my KTM 530 EXC is a total pain, even with the spanner. I thought about putting one of those collars on it, but I ride it so seldom nowadays I just can't justify it at the moment. When I do ride it, I am usually loaded with luggage so I have just set it for the heavy load and left it there. If I were able to get out and do more day rides on it where I am not loaded down, I would definitely have that collar on there!
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #6
Held357
 
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Great point Toutmeister! While I'll most certainly be upgrading the spring, I'm about 250#, the wife was so impressed with the smaller bikes she came back to Texas and got her license. I'm saving up for a little 250cc for early 2018.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:00 PM   #7
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peospecror16 View Post
... the wife was so impressed with the smaller bikes she came back to Texas and got her license. I'm saving up for a little 250cc for early 2018.
The best solution!

I would highly recommend that both of you do some kind of adventure riding training class together unless you are both experienced dirt riders. It will do wonders for your skills, confidence, and lowering the risk of injury to you and the bikes. It's also just fun.
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:15 PM   #8
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Welcome from central Texas. Sad to hear that your bikes were damaged in the storm. Bet you had a blast in Colorado? One of my favorite places to ride. Here's your 250 below.
http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115598
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:12 PM   #9
Held357
 
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Thanks a great deal! I'll pass this along to my bride but she's got her eye on an XT250. To be honest I'm just ecstatic she's looking. She rode on the back from Houston to Colorado and hasn't dropped the idea of a bike since.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:14 PM   #10
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

And yes training is always a good idea. She's a noob and I'm an experienced noob. Not to proud to learn.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:38 AM   #11
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

My wife rode on the back of my first bike a few times and I told her I needed to take the MSF class for my own peace of mind. When I went to sign up, she wanted to do it with me. She aced the class and got the highest score. We went on to enjoy many great miles of riding together. She never got into the dual sport thing because we started having kids about the time I switched from street riding only to dual sport. I sometimes wish she'd consider getting a dual sport, but she lacks a bit of aggressiveness in regard to riding. She was an awesome street rider. Being a good dual sport rider seems to require a willingness to take some chances and risks. You have to be willing to commit, because when you aren't really committed to what you are doing, things can go wrong in a hurry. It's hard to put into words, but I think it is a different mentality than what is required for street only riding.

Buy good gear. Seriously, buy the best you can afford, especially boots. If you ride dual sport, you will go down, likely more than once, sometimes more than once per trip It's just part of the game. I can't think of anyone I know that rides dual sport that has not gone down. You will want gear that has the armor AND abrasion protection. I have had a few pretty nasty get offs over the years and in every single case, the quality gear I was wearing kept me from being severely injured. I wear a full face helmet, reinforced leather gloves, armored jacket/pants, and full on dirt boots (mostly for the ankle protection).

Street boots can let your ankles roll side to side because they are intended to be a bit more comfy and flexible. Dirt boots will only let the ankle bend up/down like when you shift. You don't want your ankle rolling sideways. It hurts. Screws will be required to fix it. It will still hurt for at least a year after the surgery... Trust me After whacking a deer on the street and going down while wearing my street boots, I now wear by adventure boots even for street rides. Had I worn them that day, I likely would have walked away unscathed. They have saved my feet, ankles, and shins from certain injury on numerous occasions.

I would also recommend you invest in a good bike to bike communication system. They have really improved in the last few years. I have a pair of SENA 20s that work great. There are others out there that are also good. Being able to talk with your wife while riding is a HUGE convenience, but it also just makes sharing the adventure more fun. The newer ones connect to your mobile phone with Bluetooth, allowing you to use the phone, listen to music, and for some even send/receive texts. They will also connect to your GPS if you use the voice directions. And, I believe some will even work with video cameras so you can narrate while you shoot video (if you get that bug).
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:02 AM   #12
Held357
 
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

I agree about dual sport riding. Aa to her level of commitment off road, we'll see. Most of our weekend rides for the past few years have been through north west Harris County and SHNF. That's a good place to start. That said she's definitely expressed interest in returning to Colorado. We will see but I'm hopeful.

As for gear, We're both gear nerds. We met working at s camping store so she appreciates the value of quality gear whether it's a tent, boots or skid plate. I'm fortunate in that she wholeheartedly supports my getting the best protective gear we can reasonably afford. I bought her a suit this last year for our trip but no communications system. That is definitely on the list. Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice!
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:07 AM   #13
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

& enjoy!
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:01 PM   #14
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Colorado is pretty incredible. I can see why she'd want to get back there. My wife and I did several street trips to SW Colorado and she loved it. She missed out on most of the dual sport trips because that is when the kids started showing up... She did get to drive a rented jeep over Engineer Pass from Lake City to Silverton with our first kid strapped into a car seat in the back, but after kid two came along, it was just too much work. Then came kid three... It wasn't until a few years ago that we had an opportunity to take the whole family out there. We stayed in Lake City for a few days and that is where I rented the jeep to take them to Silverton via Cinnamon Pass, then up California Gulch to Lake Como, and back over Engineer Pass to Lake City. They absolutely loved it. She might do it on an ATV or a side by side, but not on a dirt bike. She's just not comfy with the amount of moving around the bike does when you are off the pavement and she's not wild about the idea of falling down

Utah has some amazing dual sport riding as well. Moab is the obvious spot that many people think of. It has everything from easy to insane. The scenery is off the charts as well. I did a trip last year on my 1200 GS with my daughter through Utah and Western Colorado. She was 10 (almost 11) at the time. Given that we were riding two up with all three luggage cases on the bike, we had to avoid the really rough stuff. However, we still did seven days of riding where the bulk of the riding was on dirt. Most of it was stuff that relative newbies should not have any trouble riding (unless it was wet/raining). The big issue out in Southern Utah is gas range for the bikes. You really want to be able to do a minimum of 175 miles on a tank, so carrying extra gas might be necessary. We started in Farmington, NM., and worked our way over to Capitol Reef NP, Bryce Canyon NP, Zion NP, and then North up through the mountains toward Salt Lake City. From there we cut back East through the mountains along the Utah/Wyoming border to Colorado. We came back down through Rangely, Rifle, Paonia, Gunnison, Lake City, Creede, South Fork, and Pagosa Springs. Let me know if you ever get the itch to head that way. I can point you in the direction of some great roads.
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:47 AM   #15
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

What part of Houston?
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:57 AM   #16
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

We have a house in Bear Creek but we're currently living in an apartment off I-10 and the beltway.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:11 AM   #17
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourmeister View Post
I sometimes wish she'd consider getting a dual sport, but she lacks a bit of aggressiveness in regard to riding. She was an awesome street rider.
My wife is the same way. She has ridden dirt with me, but she's not great at it because she isn't aggressive. I get really nervous too when she's riding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourmeister View Post
I would also recommend you invest in a good bike to bike communication system. They have really improved in the last few years. I have a pair of SENA 20s that work great. There are others out there that are also good. Being able to talk with your wife while riding is a HUGE convenience, but it also just makes sharing the adventure more fun. The newer ones connect to your mobile phone with Bluetooth, allowing you to use the phone, listen to music, and for some even send/receive texts. They will also connect to your GPS if you use the voice directions. And, I believe some will even work with video cameras so you can narrate while you shoot video (if you get that bug).
I concur. Comms are the best accessory that we've bought for riding. Being able to talk to each other really made for a huge increase in the enjoyment that we get out of riding. We are on our second set of Scala's, but I want to switch to SENA when these are toast.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:27 AM   #18
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

I share the same reservations with my wife on the dirt but we do everything together and I'm hopeful she'll take to it. My goal is to be able to do some moto camping on light dual sports. We ride bikes together, canoe together and backpack together. This would really be cool if she'd tour with me but I'll leave that up to her. The communication system is a must. We've done three week long tours without one and hand signals get a little frustrating.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:49 PM   #19
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

I really think the key is to get a bike small/short/light enough that she feels comfortable on it. You don't need massive ground clearance unless you are going to be doing serious off-roading, which doesn't sound like what you want to do. You can lower some bikes fairly easily and inexpensively. Weight is a BIG factor for riding off pavement. The difference between riding my 1200 GS and my KTM 530 EXC, even on simple dirt roads, is pretty big! More power is nice, but it is not everything. Low end grunt is nice to have. The ability to run at least 65-70mph would be good, but is not an absolute necessity.

On my trip to Montana in July, there was a lady riding an older Suzuki DR200 I think. I can't recall the exact model. She had that thing LOADED!! She managed to show up at the campsite every evening. She wasn't tall at all. I think she might have been in her late 50's or early 60's. I don't think she did many of the "challenge" sections of the route, but she did all the rest and she was having a blast. Total route was just over 1800 miles in nine days.

There was another younger lady there (40 ish) riding a Honda CRF150!! She did ALL the challenge routes! Her boyfriend was riding an XR650R/L and was carrying the bulk of their luggage to keep her as light as possible. She wasn't tall either, but she did have that aggression factor. She was only able to top out around 60mph, so they would drop back on some of the more open and faster sections.

Something like a Suzuki DR200S (carb) or the VanVan 200 might be good (FI). There is also the Yamaha TW200 (carb). They are very popular and have achieved an almost cult status. The Yamaha XT-250 is also worth considering (FI). There are also the Honda CRF-230L (carb) and newer CRF-250L (FI).

Any of those would make good entry bikes. They are lightweight and not intimidating because of power. They can be lowered a few inches without much trouble or affect on handling. However, they will have soft suspension, so loading them up with tons of luggage will likely overwhelm the rear shock. A stiffer spring and thicker oil would help there. If she decides that kind of riding is not for her, then you can probably sell any of these without taking too large of a loss on them. This would be especially true if you were to buy a used bike, which are often already set up for dual sport riding.

I she decides she really likes DS riding and gains skill/confidence, then she might be interested in something like a Suzuki V-Strom 650, Suzuki DRZ400, Honda CBX500, or other similar bikes. The big thing with them will be more power, so you can run highway speeds easier, and better suspension/brakes. You'll also be able to carry more luggage. They will tend to be more comfy for longer rides as well. They will be heavier though. They can also be lowered.

On any of these bikes, tires make a big difference when you get off the pavement. There are "adventure" tires that are designed to be 50/50 tires, or they might be slightly biased toward either side of that. They are usually big block tread patterns. The idea is to help with grip off pavement, but still give handling and lifespan on pavement. Examples include Metzler Tourances, Michelin Anakees, Heidenau K60s, Shinko 705s, Continental TKC-70s, and Mitas (can't remember the model). Like everything in life though, there is a compromise involved. If you know you are going to be doing pavement and hard pack forest roads, then these adventure tires usually do well.

IF you plan to ride where there is a good chance of deep gravel, dirt, and sand (like Big Bend), or heaven forbid... MUD, then those the shortcomings of those tires will become immediately apparent! You will want full knobbies on the bikes for those conditions. You give up some pavement performance and they won't last as many miles, but they will make a BIG difference in handling. I live in Huntsville. If I go West of I-45, I find more hard pack dirt/gravel. If I go East, I find LOTS of sand. So I like to keep a set of TKC-80s on my 1200 GS. I have used Shinko 705s and Heidenau K60s on the bike as well. If I could not run the TKC 80s, I'd likely run the K60s, followed by the 705s. The K60s will do sand, but it is a lot more work than the TKC 80s! A popular knobby for the smaller DS bikes is the Dunlop D606. They have great dirt and street performance. I ran those exclusively on my KLR 650. On my KTM, I run the Pirelli MT21s or MT16s.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:50 PM   #20
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Re: Kinda new from Houston

Oh... a good place for gear and tires is RevZilla.com and RockyMountainATV.com. There are others, but I have had good luck with both of them on prices, selection, shipping, returns, etc,...
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The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
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