Bye bye Garmin, Hello Google?

The Admiral used to give me trouble about using GPS waypoints when sailing on the bay. She would point and say, "Look, I can see the bridge and the Ferris Wheel from here!"

I've never been a fan of motorcycle GPS. Base camp and it's predecessor Mapsource never seemed intuitive as they could be and getting lost in the Mojave because of map conflicts in the GPX tracks just sealed the deal for me (use the roll chart!) So when my Zumo 550 died, I just quit using GPS.

Google Maps, facing pressure from competition, has implemented saved maps and turn by turn instructions for their map app on the Android OS. I believe that a limited ability to download maps existed in the earlier version, but this new version is meant to support full Google Maps functionality even off line - that is saying that you plan ahead and load the maps. As for dirt and pond, I'll stick with the roll chart, maps and charts.

Thoughts?

I've been a big proponent of phones-as-gps for bikes for a few years. There are drawbacks and there are advantages:

drawbacks:
* phones aren't as rugged
* phones aren't (typically) waterproof
* some phone screens are hard to see in bright daylight
* phone power connections are nowhere near as rugged

advantages:
* you already own a phone
* with a data connection, you can get traffic, weather, etc
* there are many 3rd party apps (Android: Locus, Maverick, View Ranger) that allow off-line mapping, your choice of maps (including USGS topo) and even turn-by-turn navigation (most require a data connection to setup a route, then you can navigate without it).
* you can share maps thru dropbox, email, etc. No complicated loading of files onto the GPS unit

Have to take a good look at that; Garmin certainly doesn't seem intuitive to me and BaseCamp seemed to be a step backward.

I do my mapping in Tyre -- Tom Tom's free PC software -- and export it to my Garmin. I've downloaded the Osmand app for my phone because I've heard great things about it, but can't seem to get the correct maps downloaded...

I have tried this and as Jeff pointed out, a typical phone or small tablet screen does not go bright enough to view in full sunshine. Another issue I had is overheating, by the time I had the device nicely protected in a case, an afternoon ride in the Texas sun brought up the dreaded "your iPhone has overheated" screen & subsequent shutdown.

That being said, it seems crazy to me that no manufacturer has seized on the idea of making an Android capable GPS unit to take advantage of the free mapping software from Google & others.

Is it possible to download large regions of Google maps for offline use? When I try I am directed to zoom in to a ridiculously small area. What's the secret to download an entire region for offline navigation?

I haven't had great luck in using Google maps offline... I can't ever tell if I really have what I need until I get there and have no signal.

On a recent trip, I popped for Sygic maps, where you download a whole state at a time while you have wi-fi. I still mostly used Google maps since much of the time we were not far out of Portland Oregon, but when we got way out into the woods, Sygic worked well on my Galaxy Note 3.

Like any other app, you have to learn it and its quirks, but I have 4 or 5 states in the western half of the country on my phone now.

I've been considering getting a cheap 7 inch tablet just for GPS, but all the cheap ones don't seem to have GPS in them. Fry's regularly has 7 inch tablets for under $30 on their sale ads.

texxter said:

Is it possible to download large regions of Google maps for offline use? When I try I am directed to zoom in to a ridiculously small area. What's the secret to download an entire region for offline navigation?

Click to expand...

50KM x 50KM is their maximum available.

I would love to run my cell-enabled iPad (or even a regular iPad tethered to my cell phone) as a large GPS in my tankbag, but the overheating and no data coverage issues have been killers. Screen brightness is another, but doesn't really even register on my radar until those other two are addressed.

Maybe I'll look again for an offline solution that doesn't require a data connection...

***edit - simple google query turned this up:
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/offline-gps-apps/

I think I'll look into Navmii. I still love Waze, but this might be a good solution for when I take the road less cell-covered.

philipbarrett said:

I have tried this and as Jeff pointed out, a typical phone or small tablet screen does not go bright enough to view in full sunshine. Another issue I had is overheating, by the time I had the device nicely protected in a case, an afternoon ride in the Texas sun brought up the dreaded "your iPhone has overheated" screen & subsequent shutdown.

That being said, it seems crazy to me that no manufacturer has seized on the idea of making an Android capable GPS unit to take advantage of the free mapping software from Google & others.

Click to expand...

The Garmin Monterra is Android based. http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/monterra/offroader/

Looks interesting. Not cheap, but interesting.

I use copilot GPS for paved road directions, and osmand for following predetermined GPS tracks. This is for Android, but both work with no data. I have Texas and some of the surrounding states saved.

As for the phone, the Samsung Rugby is designed to meet mil-spec and tough enough to survive usual use without a case. There is still the problem with the screen brightness and handling it with gloves.

There are a number of apps that will handle off line maps. I use Alpine Quest for hiking and download USGS quads for free. Okay, the app is $9.99, but the maps are free.

As a test I saved La Grange to my offline places and then switched the phone to airplane mode. I can zoom in to street level or out to national without any problem other than reduced detail. I can't zoom in on Schulenburg since I didn't save it. I'll have to try saving another town and see if I can switch between them.

This really isn't a panacea for me. Just an alternative way to navigate in the absence of Garmin. I have an old Samsung TAB2 that I'm going to try it with next.

Meriden said:

I use Alpine Quest for hiking and download USGS quads for free. Okay, the app is $9.99, but the maps are free.

Click to expand...

Wow, this looks awesome!

Osmand happy user here also. Once I realized how quickly it sucks up the battery on full screen brightness I've had good success. Just keep plugged in 100% of the time on a direct battery connection. Heavy downpours I unplug the power connector (not waterproof when plugged in) and run battery power only. My S5 Sport is waterproof and dustproof my Nuvi isn't. My S5 Sport with Osmand downloads and follows tracks, my Nuvi doesn't. If I'm not following tracks I use Google navigation. Much better and more dependable than Garmin or any other I've used. Traffic flows integrated as well.

_

I have a Garmin, mostly to watch elevation and speed, the maps are OK, but you can't load the topo on a street unit or get a dual boot setup!

But I never had one of these break or run low on power.

DaveC said:

...
But I never had one of these break or run low on power.

Click to expand...

Kinda hard to open up, reroute and change navigation on the fly while running 75mph down the highway though.

They dont break but they can tear and blow away.

_

I can load both the City Select North America and Topo maps on my Garmin Montana 600 at the same time. In fact, I can even scan maps and load them on the GPS. I did that with some Forest Service maps for a trip to Az. Then I can toggle between all of them as needed. In the last few years, my up close vision has really started going all to heck, so being able to make the fonts bigger on the maps would be nice. The size of the screen is good, but slightly larger wouldn't hurt either. But a larger screen would be nice not just because of vision issues, but for being able to see a larger area when zoomed in to the higher detail levels.

SilverBullet said:

Kinda hard to open up, reroute and change navigation on the fly while running 75mph down the highway though.

They dont break but they can tear and blow away.

_

Click to expand...

Reroute on the fly not a problem, I use the sign post or the allways handy " where does that go" method. If your playing with a paper map at 75 , you may have issues!

BTW this particular map has out lasted 3 GPS units! And it has never failed to open up!

Tourmeister said:

In fact, I can even scan maps and load them on the GPS.

Click to expand...

Pray tell?

There is an app I have tried out on android and iphone called Navmii. They have a free app that allows you to predownload maps for the states or regions you want (I usually DL them over wifi at home), then you can do GPS location without the use of cell phone data. It pulls directions from true GPS coordinates. I know you can plan routes and trips on it but I have not gotten that into it but to be honest I am a minimalist. I like the idea of using my phone becuase it's one less thing to wire in for power, crap on the handlebar, and honestly, a whole lot easier to take off the bike and not have a concern over if it is going to kill the battery when I park the bike for a month because I am traveling. I think once I get some down time to ride around Texas and not fly around the US I am going to check it out a little more because I am migrating from the Vstrom to the DR and having a handlebar full of gadgets isn't what I want on that bike, becuase chances are at times it is going to end up on it's side, lol...

http://navmii.com/

I just noticed they have a windows store app as well, so I suspect if you have Windows 8 or 10 it may run on your pc (not sure if that is just oriented towards Microsoft based phones or not). Might be interesting if you can get one app that you can wrangle all your shared maps between your phone and pc/mac.

philipbarrett said:

Pray tell?

Click to expand...

It's been a while since I've needed to do it so I am fuzzy on the exact steps I used. But basically, you can take any map, go into Google Earth and insert it as an overlay by just scaling and eye balling it until it lines up with the Google Earth map. Once you set it, Google Earth attaches GPS coords to it so that it will show up in the right place once you import it into the GPS after saving it in Google Earth. You can probably find the exact steps for this with a bit of Googling.

The reason I did it was that the "roads" we were going to be riding did not show up on the Garmin maps but they were on the Forest Service maps. So I downloaded the PDFs from the Forest Service, pulled them into Google Earth, lined them up, saved them, moved them to the GPS and they pulled right up using the Map Information menu options. Basically, you just enable/disable the file like you would any other mapset.

Tourmeister said:

But basically, you can take any map, go into Google Earth and insert it as an overlay by just scaling and eye balling it until it lines up with the Google Earth map. Once you set it, Google Earth attaches GPS coords to it so that it will show up in the right place once you import it into the GPS after saving it in Google Earth. You can probably find the exact steps for this with a bit of Googling.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this makes total sense.

Try Maprika. You can draw a map on a napkin or take a picture of a map and navigate with it.

http://www.maprika.com

I struggled with the gps/map Paper/digital formats for a long time. On a small screen(like a gps), when you get to the resolution to view the “goat path” you’re on, then you can’t see where you need to go. Most paper maps (like a state map you may buy or get free upon entering a state) are only “big picture” worthy; if one were to scale the width of a highway by measuring the width of the printed line that represents that highway, the road would be miles wide. And those maps don’t show ancillary and secondary highways (often). The large format maps (Gazetteers and such) have storage and handling problems, but the best of them will show almost any road anywhere in that map’s area. “The Roads of Texas” by mapsco has sections/pages that don’t align with the next page (meaning you have to look at four pages in a very small area sometimes), which is VERY cumbersome at times. DeLorme does a good job, but if riding in the west then the mapbooks by “Benchmark” are the best (imho). The topo features are realistic enough on the page for them to recognized on sight in many cases, altitude is a very easy color gradient. Benchmark has these mapbooks only for the west (which suits me fine, I rarely go east of the Brazos).
So I have resorted to use of all these products. GPS for easy stuff, and audio instructions (which can be of such great use in urban areas), the “old school” highways maps for general plotting of a trip, and then the gazetteers for a nice detailed look-around on the map (unfortunately this has to be done while parked). But hey, you gotta stop and smell the roses, might as well check out the mapbook while you’re sniffin’.