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Old 07-06-2016, 04:13 PM   #1
schnellbandit
 
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Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

If you've been on the fence about installing a 19 tooth engine sprocket, take the dive.

This runs counter to what seems to be popular, swapping out the stock 18 for a 17 and maybe even swapping the rear sprocket for something with more teeth to reduce speed at a given RPM. Suzuki gave the Bandit a healthy dash of torque right from idle so why not use it?

The 19t is a really nice change for the Bandit 1250. First, it corrects the speedometer error. Now its within 1.5 mph of actual, still that much higher that true speed but close enough that it probably doesn't matter. The idea that Suzuki needs to help me not get speeding tickets by putting in a huge error seems a little big brother to me, I can read the speed limit signs thank you very much. No more econo cars lined up behind you because the speedo says 55 and you might be at 47, or 49 or who knows what.

Around town. 2nd on city streets makes even busy streets almost pleasant. You can even start in 2nd if you want, the 1250 has plenty of oomph and you never have to shift.

Country roads. 3rd becomes your friend. 3rd can take you around all but the tightest curves through open sweepers. No shifting. What you also get is super smooth transitions because there is linear power delivery at any legal speed and beyond if you must. If you ride two up, the backseat rider will appreciate it as much as you do because no matter how smooth you think you are, nothing is smoother than no shifting.

Highways. 4-5th rule here and those longer roads that beg for higher speeds but still have you paying attention? The 19t makes that a breeze.

Freeways. Even at 60 mph, 6th is workable and up to any other speed you want to go. The engine feels so relaxed but be careful, you look down and see the speedo indicating 75-80 or more and guess what? You really are going that fast. None of this 80 indicated and actually doing maybe 74 or indicated 65 and you are really barely ticking over 56-59. If you need to lay down miles those roads that might seem like a long drone can now pass by rather quickly.

Think of 6th as the Texas gear with the 19t installed.

I didn't feel any discernible difference in vibration between the 18 and 19 sprockets at the same RPMs, just that you run at the higher speed with the 19.

Merging onto freeways is a little different, you can run up to speed in 2nd or 3rd and then snick up to 6th and move on. I also didn't find engine braking a difference that was noticeable, besides, there are 3 rather good sized disks to slow you down and they do a better job of that anyway.

For the light to light riders, the 19t isn't on the radar, when the tach gets near 7, 8 or 9 in any gear, your velocity is already so high that things happen in a big hurry. No, the 19t just takes advantage of the tremendous torque of the 1250 engine and gives you more of what you already have.

One tooth less on the rear would make the speedo exact but this is close enough. Take note that the 19t with stock rear sprocket gives you the least chain wear according to Gearing Commander.

So if you've been thinking about how a 19t works, it works just fine, it does not turn your 1250 into a slug, if anything it gives you more speed, some better fuel economy, lower chain/sprocket wear and makes 2nd more than just a pass through gear and 6th what it was meant to be, a here to there and smell the roses gear.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:19 PM   #2
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Thanks for the info. I'll probably change sprockets and the chain in another 12,000 miles. A nineteen will go on then.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:28 PM   #3
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Does the correction to the speedo by changing the front sprocket have a detrimental effect on the odometer like when installing a Healtech Speedohealer ? I know you can get your mph accurate with the electronic black box, but it then throws off your milage by the (on average) 7% error.

Did you take any photo's of the bigger front sprocket installed ? There was a rumor a while back that the bigger sprocket caused the chain to rub on part of the clutch housing.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:54 PM   #4
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

I'll check the odo tomorrow and report back.

The chain does not contact any part of the inner sprocket housing.

As for the larger sprocket hitting the inner sprocket cover, it does at the 4 o'clock boss. The chain doesn't hit because this is on the backside or rear part of the sprocket. You need remove only 1/16" and then only where the sprocket is aligned to it. I went 3/8" wide and right at 1/16" of material on the inside. This leaves plenty of material for the boss. Very little material is actually taken away.

Consider the boss is 360 degrees and the portion affected is only 1/8 of that.

You can remove the material quite easily with a finger nail file, take just a couple of minutes going very slowly. Then dress it up with some 400 grit sandpaper and it looks good.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:54 PM   #5
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Interesting, I hadn't thought about going up to a 19 tooth front. That may be what works best for the riding I do. Interested to know if there are clearance issues.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:04 PM   #6
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Other than noted above, no clearance issues. You can get your fingers between the chain and all parts of the inner sprocket cover.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:38 PM   #7
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Very cool.
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Old 07-07-2016, 01:34 AM   #8
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

It will throw off your odo. You can have either accurate odo or accurate speed. Not both. I'ts how they are set up from factory.
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:49 PM   #9
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

I never altered the front but did go down a tooth in the rear years back. I had to reset my Speedohealer to 6% from 7% with that combo. And ditto on any gearing change effecting the ometer. Even the Speedohealer does that to the same percentage you set it for the correct speed.
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:06 AM   #10
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

The Odometer is affected although its pretty irrelevant in most cases. It isn't going to affect resale values, how many of us take the odometer reading into account unless it has been tampered with or doesn't work? You really have no idea exactly how many miles are on the bike, if things appear ok you accept it. Condition and maintenance records are far more important than what the odo says.

One more point. If you put a 17t front sprocket on, forget the odo reading anyway. The shorter gearing increases the distance the pistons and all other moving engine parts incur per mile of travel.

I like the 19t front sprocket, it makes longer trips far more relaxing. The overall riding experience is enhanced and that is good enough for me.
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:24 PM   #11
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry_mcki View Post
Does the correction to the speedo by changing the front sprocket have a detrimental effect on the odometer like when installing a Healtech Speedohealer ? I know you can get your mph accurate with the electronic black box, but it then throws off your milage by the (on average) 7% error.

Did you take any photo's of the bigger front sprocket installed ? There was a rumor a while back that the bigger sprocket caused the chain to rub on part of the clutch housing.
I was under the impression that the Speedohealer corrects the odometer also. Not true ?
Right now I gain 3 miles every 100, which isnt that bad over time but,
The speedo is off by 7mph.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:06 PM   #12
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Yep, for some reason Suzuki decided you could have an accurate speedo or an accurate Odo but not both, quiet strange they couldn't get it correct considering its all electronic and worked of a pulse from the crank. So the Speedohealer or sprocket changes can get one correct but not the other.

I wouldn't say the odo is irrelevant, I agree for resale it's not of much interest, however if you are looking for a turn-off at 10.5 miles down an unfamiliar road you'll have some pretty mean calculations going on in your head. Luckily I've got a GPS so this is not an issue for me, but I can see it could get you into a little trouble sometimes.

Good point about the reciprocating parts not working as hard, that's got to be a plus.

Not my bike, mine was probably more grooty when I first took of the covers. Is this pink area what needed sculpting ?



Or is it the yellow area below ?

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Old 07-12-2016, 01:03 AM   #13
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry_mcki View Post
Yep, for some reason Suzuki decided you could have an accurate speedo or an accurate Odo but not both, quiet strange they couldn't get it correct considering its all electronic and worked of a pulse from the crank. So the Speedohealer or sprocket changes can get one correct but not the other.
It is not strange, it is deliberate.
In EU all vehicles that are sold are required to meet EU standards. They state that speedo may never show lower speed than actual. That includes all wheel sizes that someone is physically able to fit to the vehicle whether it is manufacturer recommended size or not. That includes all cars, motorcycles and what ever vehicles sold on EU.

So when some fellow looks and finds a huge tyre vs original one and is able to physically fit it to the vehicle without modifying it is manufacturers responsibility to guarantee that speedo is not showing less than actual speed.
Can you imagine what would happen if speedo shows less than actual and ppl start receiving traffic tickets when they are driving according their speedo.

I do not think that Suzuki is going to mass produce 2 different electronics/software for EU and USA. So stricter rules is what they follow and sell one product on both markets.

However inaccurate odometer would impact resell value they make odo accurate when tyre/wheelsize/gearing is stock.
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Old 07-12-2016, 04:49 AM   #14
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

With 80K plus miles showing on my ometer, I'm a bit passed thinking about resale value. Actual is closer to 85K miles with the speedo healer being on since 1000 miles on the clock.
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:02 AM   #15
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Motorcycle speedometers were optimistic decades before there was an EU as we know it. The optimistic speedometer debate raged on since before the Internet and when 2 strokes were all the rage. There was no EU regulation then about speedos.

Manufacturers aren't having to meet requirements that say their speedos must not show lower than actual speeds or not more than accurate speeds for all wheels or tires that can go onto motorcycles. Anyone can fit virtually any wheel or tire if they spend enough time and money to get it done, even the most optimistic speedo can be made to show a slower than true speed.

With todays technology, making accurate speedometers isn't some hard thing to do and the Japanese aren't trying to appease the EU markets and just make one model either, they can and do make different models for different markets and have all along.

Simply put, the market hasn't demanded accurate speedometers because if it did they'd be made. If the EU had some regulation, then you couldn't buy anything that circumvented that requirement either. We're stuck with optimistic speedos because it isn't that important and it makes for better stats, fuel economy appears higher, revs appear less at speed and anyone doing seat of the pants comparisons gets jazzed because their FXKZYZ1024 really does go 196 mph in less than 12 seconds.

Regulations about speedos reflect manufacturers tolerances and inaccurate speedos are less expensive to make. You could have a very accurate speedo, synced or checked via GPS, it is just a matter of how much you want to pay for that nifty feature.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:09 AM   #16
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnellbandit View Post
Motorcycle speedometers were optimistic decades before there was an EU as we know it. The optimistic speedometer debate raged on since before the Internet and when 2 strokes were all the rage. There was no EU regulation then about speedos.

Manufacturers aren't having to meet requirements that say their speedos must not show lower than actual speeds or not more than accurate speeds for all wheels or tires that can go onto motorcycles. Anyone can fit virtually any wheel or tire if they spend enough time and money to get it done, even the most optimistic speedo can be made to show a slower than true speed.

With todays technology, making accurate speedometers isn't some hard thing to do and the Japanese aren't trying to appease the EU markets and just make one model either, they can and do make different models for different markets and have all along.

Simply put, the market hasn't demanded accurate speedometers because if it did they'd be made. If the EU had some regulation, then you couldn't buy anything that circumvented that requirement either. We're stuck with optimistic speedos because it isn't that important and it makes for better stats, fuel economy appears higher, revs appear less at speed and anyone doing seat of the pants comparisons gets jazzed because their FXKZYZ1024 really does go 196 mph in less than 12 seconds.

Regulations about speedos reflect manufacturers tolerances and inaccurate speedos are less expensive to make. You could have a very accurate speedo, synced or checked via GPS, it is just a matter of how much you want to pay for that nifty feature.
Sure.
Or you could google it.
Or you could read it here: https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/...gs/r039r1e.pdf
or for example:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ometer-scandal

I do understand that the last link is just a link in the internet so just google it some more.

It might be so that in early days technology was not good enough to make accurate. However it does not mean that the regulations do not exist and that manufacturers are not forced to comply to be able to sell the vehicles in EU. After that it is just mass production. It is far cheaper to build just one variation of product than many.
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:20 AM   #17
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

I will add to this Speedometer discussion. I bought a 2014 car new and currently have a 2016 for work. Both of these have very accurate speedometer readings per two different GPS units and those radar equipped "Your Speed" set ups on the road sides.
Very different from all the older vehicles I've owned including my 2000 F-150 Truck.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:36 AM   #18
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

As I ride more with the 19 tooth I noticed that the close ratios between 5th & 6th are still somewhat of a meh moment. Given the huge amount of torque available, Suzuki could easily take the 6th speed and spread it upwards quite a bit. In that way you could maintain the 18 tooth and still have that lumbering drone gear for mile munching.

I'm not sure if Suzuki did anything with the close ratios of the newly released Bandits. A close ratio 1-5 followed by a long legged 6th would really be the kick. Not too many bikes can pull top speed in 6th anyway, it's usually designed to give the more relaxed feel during longer distance or freeway riding.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:27 PM   #19
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry_mcki View Post
Yep, for some reason Suzuki decided you could have an accurate speedo or an accurate Odo but not both, quiet strange they couldn't get it correct considering its all electronic and worked of a pulse from the crank. So the Speedohealer or sprocket changes can get one correct but not the other.

I wouldn't say the odo is irrelevant, I agree for resale it's not of much interest, however if you are looking for a turn-off at 10.5 miles down an unfamiliar road you'll have some pretty mean calculations going on in your head. Luckily I've got a GPS so this is not an issue for me, but I can see it could get you into a little trouble sometimes.

Good point about the reciprocating parts not working as hard, that's got to be a plus.

Not my bike, mine was probably more grooty when I first took of the covers. Is this pink area what needed sculpting ?



Or is it the yellow area below ?

Sorry I didn't see those pics and the related question, the answer is neither.

The material you remove (a very small amount) is in the inner sprocket cover at the 4 o'clock position. Go inward about 1/3" from the mating point and then remove a small amount from the boss casting. Go slow and remove little a try for fit. As soon as you have clearance, stop.

Looking at the inner sprocket cover installed, this will be between the 8-10 o'clock position.

If you are unsure, just install the sprocket and inner sprocket cover and rotate the rear tire, you'll be able to see and hear the slight contact. The amount of material needing to be removed is very small. You could do it with sandpaper.

I get about 45 mpg pressing the Bandit in brisk riding. Speeds would be between 30-80 and not easy on the throttle either.

The 19T really shows off the Bandit's torque.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:15 PM   #20
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Re: Perspective of the 19 tooth engine sprocket - 1250

in the uk here, what is the sprocket off or is it a bespoke item. can i order off the shelf.
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