Why can't motorcycles/scooters use bicycle lanes?

[heinzrx]

The title says it all... (sorry for the long lead-in)

BACKGROUND...
Our neighborhood is having a debate about a "road diet". There is a four lane thoroughfare that passes through our neighborhood and the neighborhood association is proposing knocking it down to two lanes and adding bicycle lanes on either side. This thoroughfare is very busy (16 thousand cars a day average) mostly because it feeds directly into downtown Fort Worth and has heavy commuter traffic.

The essential argument of the pro-road-diet group is that it's for safety reasons, slowing traffic and making it safer for bicyclists and pedestrians. A meeting was held and included the local city council rep. and a couple of city traffic engineers. We spoke with one of the traffic engineers and she said in the recent three year period there have been a total of 18 documented traffic accidents on this stretch of road. My wife and I feel that this figure does not support the expense of reconfiguring a busy thoroughfare and that the changes will just add to backups of traffic.

I posted my concerns on the Fort Worth Forum and started a debate of the road diet issue. It got somewhat sidetracked into a vehicles vs bicyclist issue and then when I asked why motorcycles can't use bike lanes (but bicycles can use car lanes) things started to go downhill.

So I decided to start a separate thread on why motorcycles/scooters can't use bike lanes.

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com...showtopic=4979

Feel free to comment here or add to the discussion on the Fort Worth Forum.

Heinz

[Duke]

are you insinuating that we can't?

[hizzo3]

Just what we need. Some squid flying 130 in a bicycle lane. How about a 28 MPH speed limit with speed cameras then we are game.

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[ulric]

Originally Posted by hizzo3

Just what we need. Some squid flying 130 in a bicycle lane. How about a 28 MPH speed limit with speed cameras then we are game.

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Is there some sort of magical barrier that keeps them out and stops them from doing it now?

[hizzo3]

Originally Posted by ulric

Is there some sort of magical barrier that keeps them out and stops them from doing it now?

Someones been watching too much harry potter

No there isn't currently, and I've seen a few use them as a passing lane for turning vehicles.

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[Meriden]

Is this being considered or influenced by the incident where a bicyclist that was hit on Camp Bowie a month or so ago? I think that situation outlines why bicycles and motorized traffic will never mix. I grew up in Fort Worth and would have never considered something so foolish as riding a bicycle down the middle of Camp Bowie after dark. As much as I like riding a bike we need to be more honest with ourselves regarding the safety of having slow moving bicycle a part of the general traffic mix.

As for the road diet idea, as a motorcyclist I depend on traffic being spread out for my safety. Intentionally packing it together and slowing it down would not be my idea of smart move. A fender bender in a car is one thing, but getting tapped on the back wheel when your on a bike can lead to some serious injuries.

Give the bicycles some dedicated lanes a couple of blocks off the major roadways. For everybody's sake, the more separation the better.

In many Asian countries, bikes and scooters share the same road. It appears a bit chaotic but it seems to work.



Due to the persistent warm weather and the exaggerated benefits of commuting by bicycle, I find many bike paths along major freeways rarely get used. I suggest motorcyclist have full access to bike paths along major freeway with strict speed limits enforced.

In Austin, when traffic appears "locked up" - motorcycle and scooter riders should be able to ride safely on the shoulder as long as their speed does not exceed 20 mph. Dudes, codify this into a law and I would be a staunch supporter.

RB

[Meriden]

Originally Posted by hizzo3

Just what we need. Some squid flying 130 in a bicycle lane. How about a 28 MPH speed limit with speed cameras then we are game.

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Originally Posted by Red Brown

In many Asian countries, bikes and scooters share the same road. It appears a bit chaotic but it seems to work.



Due to the persistent warm weather and the exaggerated benefits of commuting by bicycle, I find many bike paths along major freeways rarely get used. I suggest motorcyclist have full access to bike paths along major freeway with strict speed limits enforced.

In Austin, when traffic appears "locked up" - motorcycle and scooter riders should be able to ride safely on the shoulder as long as their speed does not exceed 20 mph. Dudes, codify this into a law and I would be a staunch supporter.

RB

How about we just limit trails to vehicles with engines under 150cc and a weight under 300lbs? Add to that legislation keeping bicycles off of any roadway four lanes or wider or has a posted speed greater than 30 mph and I'll buy in.

m

[hizzo3]

Originally Posted by Red Brown

In Austin, when traffic appears "locked up" - motorcycle and scooter riders should be able to ride safely on the shoulder as long as their speed does not exceed 20 mph. Dudes, codify this into a law and I would be a staunch supporter.

RB

I wouldn't do it even if it was legal. Your gonna get some jack happy fool that will be frustrated about sitting in traffic. He will see you in his mirrors then pull into the shoulder much like they do with HOV lanes today. No I don't use HOV lanes often for this reason.

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[Tattoogunman]

Originally Posted by hizzo3

I wouldn't do it even if it was legal. Your gonna get some jack happy fool that will be frustrated about sitting in traffic. He will see you in his mirrors then pull into the shoulder much like they do with HOV lanes today. No I don't use HOV lanes often for this reason.

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^ THIS

I understand people big into bicycles have as many opinions about road safety as motorcyclists do. But at the very least, at least a motorcycle can keep up with traffic. Nothing chaps my hide more than driving down a road and I come across a pack of bicyclists taking up a lane or two. It may be legal, but I think it's a bad idea. Reminds me of that Denis Leary bicycle sketch that he does - look it up if you haven't heard it before When I do get out my bicycle, I stay on bike trails - I can go for miles without ever actually going on a road where I live (well, I have to cross the odd street or two, but I don't count that).

Originally Posted by Meriden

How about we just limit trails to vehicles with engines under 150cc and a weight under 300lbs? Add to that legislation keeping bicycles off of any roadway four lanes or wider or has a posted speed greater than 30 mph and I'll buy in.
m

I like that tweak regarding limits on the cc. I'll go with it.

RB

[jcyuhn]

Sounds to me like the issue has nothing to do with bicycles and everything to do with lowering traffic levels and/or slowing traffic on what is essentially a residential street. Turning the outside land into a bicycle lane is just a convenient way to achieve this goal.

This approach was used in Richardson, on Custer. Rd. south of Renner. It's a 4 lane residential boulevard that is used as a short cut by far too much traffic during rush hour. Too many drivers ignored the 30mph limit, and with 2 lanes there was aggressive passing of those that did follow the speed limit. The city striped off the outside lane, it's now for parking and bicycles only. I suppose that now impatient drivers are for the most part stuck behind the more law abiding kind, though I have occasionally seen passing on right through the bicycle lane.

[hizzo3]

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

Sounds to me like the issue has nothing to do with bicycles and everything to do with lowering traffic levels and/or slowing traffic on what is essentially a residential street. Turning the outside land into a bicycle lane is just a convenient way to achieve this goal.

This approach was used in Richardson, on Custer. Rd. south of Renner. It's a 4 lane residential boulevard that is used as a short cut by far too much traffic during rush hour. Too many drivers ignored the 30mph limit, and with 2 lanes there was aggressive passing of those that did follow the speed limit. The city striped off the outside lane, it's now for parking and bicycles only. I suppose that now impatient drivers are for the most part stuck behind the more law abiding kind, though I have occasionally seen passing on right through the bicycle lane.

That road was easily designed for a 45 MPH speed limit. I hate it when cities do that crap.

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[on1wheel]

No recommendation as to letting motorcycles on the bicycle paths, but I do have a suggestion instead of decreasing auto lanes. Lower the speed limit and hire some cops. Costs a lot less and increases revenue. I guess that isn't as sexy as a "road diet".

[KenH]

This is one instance where I can see the usefullness of a speed camera. Lower the limit to some oddball figure like 27 3/10mph and use cameras to raise revenue. The new speed limit needs to be slow enough it is quicker to take an alternative route.

Another alternative would be to set up toll booths on each end. Plate readers can give residents a free pass. This option would also raise substantial resources for the community.

Bicycle lanes are abused by people who take shortcuts. Not a good idea.

[khager]

Originally Posted by Meriden

How about we just limit trails to vehicles with engines under 150cc and a weight under 300lbs? Add to that legislation keeping bicycles off of any roadway four lanes or wider or has a posted speed greater than 30 mph and I'll buy in.

m

Make it 650cc and 500 lbs, and I'm in!

[Dave.TX]

Asian countries have far more bicycles and scooters than cars and trucks. Our society was raised on 4 wheels. Everything else is in the way. I agree with the previous statement that at least motorcycles can keep up with traffic. I also agree that bicycle use should be limited to less traveled roads with slower speed limits. Far too many bicyclists nowadays want legislation that makes them equal or better than motorized vehicles. By reducing the amount of lanes and/or speed limits on existing roads only makes angry drivers. If they see someone on two wheels passing either by lane splitting, dedicated lanes, etc, that just makes them more angry and some will take out their frustration on the 2 wheeler. It isn't legal or right but it happens nonetheless.

There are inherent risks to living. Bicyclists on highly populated roads with higher speed limits are at severely higher risk to injury/death. Just a fact of life. The old saying goes, "You can't legislate away stupidity."

In our day and age it's more than just providing the proper lanes and laws for specific types of transportation. You have to change the mindset of the entire society. More and more folks nowadays don't care about their neighbor, only themselves. The "ME" generation. Taking away existing roads or lanes and giving them to a very small percentage (bicyclists) is a disaster waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by Dave.TX

Asian countries have far more bicycles and scooters than cars and trucks. Our society was raised on 4 wheels. Everything else is in the way.

Funny thing that in China, namely Beijing, they are trying to promote MORE bicycle paths as car ownership has swung to much in the wrong direction:

While the days when bikes dominated Beijing streets seem gone forever, the city is seeking to backpedal on some of the overwhelming trend toward car ownership.

A move to increase bicycle use in the city is understandable amid gridlocked streets and severe pollution, but measures face tough odds as people become more wealthy and amid incentives to encourage car ownership.

The municipal government aims to increase the proportion of cyclists to 23% by 2015 from 19.7% currently, the state-run Xinhua news agency reported Sunday. The local government expects to have 45% of residents using public transport by 2015, 22% using cars, and 8% taking taxis, it said.

Beijing will restore bike lanes that had been cut to make room for cars and buses. It will add more bicycle parking lots, particularly near bus and subway stations, the report said. The government will also place more restrictions on drivers, Xinhua said, citing Liu Xiaoming, director of the Municipal Communications Commission, without elaborating.

Source

In certain towns for example in Colorado, Washingon, and Oregon, bicycle paths and biking are an integral part of daily commuting. My idea is to allow motorcycles/scooters on the SAME paths if they abide by very strict speed standards plus having a cc limit would help. Violations of this rule, would cost double or triple the fine levels of comparable infractions. It would not be good to have a R1 young punk riding his motorcycle down a bicycle path for obvious safety reason.

The other issue is the lack of smart city planning which makes bicycle as a viable option to automobiles challenging. Austin, despite appearing bike friendly, has blazing heat and patch work of decent bike paths that don't seem to be connected in a meaningful way. But then again, how many people do you know in Austin that commute daily on a bicycle, except maybe the local barrista at a coffee shop.



I say let motorcycle/scooter riders use the numerous bike paths with certain limitations.

RB

[Meriden]

Originally Posted by khager

Make it 650cc and 500 lbs, and I'm in!

I'm cool. All I want to do is get the bicycles... and the minivans, and the elderly utes... off the streets.