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a short drive in a cage in the weather

Joined
Nov 18, 2011
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Location
Granbury Tx
Took a short drive home this morning from the office in Grand Prairie in the general vicinity of I-30 and SH-360.

Trip to the office was 75 minutes.

Left the office to head back home to Granbury and it only took me 6.5 hours.

I come from a place where 4 feet of snow isn't even considered inconvenient.
Today defies the ability of the written/spoken language to describe in adequate terms. I have no recollection of ever having seen a debacle such as this anywhere I've ever been, including the 38 years I've lived in the south.

Just can't hardly wait for next year...................:giveup:
 
Yea, I dealt with non driving Dallas drivers all week they were panic stricken 3 separate days this week.
 
Yep. My wife and I have both lived where snow is no big deal. Today, her normally 30 minute commute took 3.5 hours. Seriously about 20 miles. Mind boggling.
 
I lived in the Dallas are for 13 years. Very little snow - lots of freezing rain. Many of my friends from northern states thought we were inept, as they drive on snow all the time.

Two things: driving on snow is nothing like driving on a frost-covered layer of frozen rain. Secondly, cities in the south can't and don't need to spend lots of money on the equipment that northern cities require, so southern cities can't respond to the occasional ice storm like northern cities respond to the routine snow storms.
 
Been talking to my brother in Chicago, same thing there. Snow no problem, ice - forgettaboutit. Same delays there and they have plows and people who are supposed to know how to drive in it. Just fewer days here. Check out the following video and it does not seem to matter geographically, just whether ice is on the road.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDsclaXxy6c"]HD Extreme Icy Road Crash Footage, highest quality - accidents, wrecks, spinouts - YouTube[/ame]
 
It was all snow out here today. And yeah, ice is more common here. All my family laughs when the city shuts down. They just don't get it.

Today though? I don't have a clue what was going on.
 
We bow to the superiority of all of you who could expertly negotiate the ice at normal speeds if the rest of us incompetents weren't in your way. Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:
 
It was all snow out here today. And yeah, ice is more common here. All my family laughs when the city shuts down. They just don't get it.

Today though? I don't have a clue what was going on.

At one point this afternoon the local news said FW police had responded to 350 accidents since the morning. No telling how many were not bad enough to call in.

In my travels it really does not matter where you live or your experience. It is all about the ice and traction and usually is when the temps are 25- 30. Just right for the really bad roads. Lots of DFW fell directly in the middle of it today.
 
You think that's bad, if the weather ever does that down here in the Houston area, I'm walking wherever I need to go. These idiots down here can't even drive in the rain, I fear the day we get actual snow and ice.
 
We bow to the superiority of all of you who could expertly negotiate the ice at normal speeds if the rest of us incompetents weren't in your way. Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:

To be PERFECTLY clear, I am not superior to anyone on the planet in ANY way shape or form nor did I infer such.
I do however have the ability to use common sense in situations like this, can find a SAFE speed at which to travel, have a common sense understanding of increased stopping distances and lateral G forces affecting motor vehicles on ice as well as knowing that control inputs change in dramatic fashion in conditions such as WE ALL experienced yesterday.

I DO however have one expectation and that is that the drivers of motor vehicles should be expected to have the ability to control their four wheeled conveyances at the same level at which the state of Texas expects us to control and be responsible for our bikes.


I guess that's just me.
 
You also have one thing that most drivers here do not: experience.
 
snow_022715_01.jpg

snow_022715_02.jpg
One hour to go 17 miles in western Parker County yesterday. Second pic is one of the mishaps passed on the way home.
 
.... Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:

Don't know about the superiority component, but in snow packed roads, traction is always better on the shoulder. If you have to drive in the stuff, try to keep one set of wheels out of the glazed over tracks created by all the other traffic.

It never ceases to amaze watching folks loose traction on inclines because they are gunning their engines while all 4 wheels are sitting on the ice slick tracts in the middle of the road. Not only do they loose the momentum needed to get up the incline, but cause all the traffic behind them to also loose momentum (or worse - causes them to brake). Result is a closed road.
 
Yeah. Ice is way worse than snow. That cobble stone ice is even worser. Bumpy. Rutty. Jarring and tossing you around. It's terrible.

Don't brake on the ice patches. Don't ride right next to folks. Give some front to back distance. Keep a steady speed. Respect the bridges. Don't brake. Don't goose it. Shift smoothly. Small fluid motions. Slow, wide turns.

I was behind this driver yesterday who kept crabbing. Straight. Skid the rear right. Straight. Skid the rear right. This went on for several exits until they got off 820. I guess that was their comfortable rhythm. It wasn't comfortable for me. I gave them extra extra room.

Mostly though, drivers around me did well.
 
We bow to the superiority of all of you who could expertly negotiate the ice at normal speeds if the rest of us incompetents weren't in your way. Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:

Did not even make it out of the driveway. Slid and bumped the gate post going out of the driveway.:angryfire Scuffed the bumper but no real damage. That ice can be tricky. Last night going home from work the roads were slippery right in my housing area. Then fell trying to get into the door at work and did a number on my hand.:help: Lovely day to be at work.:loco::loco::loco::giveup::giveup::giveup:
 
We bow to the superiority of all of you who could expertly negotiate the ice at normal speeds if the rest of us incompetents weren't in your way. Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:

Never claimed to be superior, I just chose to use common sense which seemed to leave the general population as the frozen precipitation fell. 2 hours 40 minutes to get from 75 and Arapaho to 35E and Pleasant Run when starting at 1 in the afternoon and not encountering any thing other than the smallest of glazed sections all less than 300 feet along the route seemed excessive.


Ice is treacherous I lived through several ice storms in Arkansas in my years up there several with a few inches of ice on the roadways that lasted for several days at a stretch.
 
To be PERFECTLY clear, I am not superior to anyone on the planet in ANY way shape or form nor did I infer such.
I do however have the ability to use common sense in situations like this, can find a SAFE speed at which to travel, have a common sense understanding of increased stopping distances and lateral G forces affecting motor vehicles on ice as well as knowing that control inputs change in dramatic fashion in conditions such as WE ALL experienced yesterday.

I DO however have one expectation and that is that the drivers of motor vehicles should be expected to have the ability to control their four wheeled conveyances at the same level at which the state of Texas expects us to control and be responsible for our bikes.


I guess that's just me.

No, it's not just you. But maybe show a little less exasperation, and a little more empathy, toward the hundreds of thousands of people who were caught in exactly the same situation as you yesterday, and couldn't control the events any more than you could. I was out twice yesterday, both times by necessity. The first time in my Acura, and I was on razor's edge of control. The second time on a mission of mercy in my Jeep 4WD - a much easier experience, but the roads were still treacherous and I had to turn around twice because of roads that had barricaded due to impassible ice. So, let's talk about some facts that added up to yesterday's gridlock:

FACT - There are, what, close to 8 million people in the greater DFW area. During rush hour, an astounding number of cars are on the roads at the same time. Our major routes are taxed to capacity and beyond on any day, and we're always just one small incident away from a traffic backup. Anything introduced to the mix that slows down the normal daily traffic will cause a backup -- a lawn chair in the left lane, rain, a car with a flat tire, ice -- how much of a backup is scaled by the event that just got introduced. It isn't the fault of the person ahead of you or the person ahead of him.

FACT - Our roads are largely untreated and, even where they are treated, rarely enough to cover the ice for long or make it soft enough to get anything remotely close to normal traction.

FACT - As a result of that, traffic slows down, particularly for bridges. It would be foolhardy not to. Bridges, icy intersections, and other localized ultra-slick spots act as gating factors that affect traffic for miles behind them. So we're all slowing down for an event that we may not see for another half hour or so.

FACT - Not all vehicles handle equally well in the same situation. Not all 2WDs are the same. Not all 4WDs are the same. Not all tires are the same.
So we can't judge how well somebody else should be able to handle the conditions by how well we are handling the conditions.

FACT - All the above introduces a slowdown into the entire traffic process, end to end, and beyond. And that slowdown, scaled across 1500 or so square miles of north Texas traffic, is simply more than the system can bear.

And, FACT - Most of us aren't skilled in ice driving. Not just us Texans. Us period. There are huge numbers of out-of-staters here, and they don't fare any better in these conditions. Local news interviews of interstate truckers and visitors from eastern states quickly confirmed that the road conditions were way outside their normal winter driving experience. I've been in several major northern cities (KC, Chicago, Philadelphia) as well as the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Germany when the winter hit. Snow - not too bad. Ice - civilization as we know it pretty much ends. Doesn't matter where in the world we are. The 80/20 rule of the universe says that most of us on this forum, and most of us on the road yesterday, are relatively equal in our skills to manage yesterday's or today's roads.

Are there a few nitwits out there? Sure. But not hundreds of thousands of them. Yesterday I nearly got clipped by a guy in a Tahoe who made an impatient lane change, thus losing control and doing a dance across two lanes until his vehicle straightened out. During the same drive, a thousand other vehicles in my visual acuity drove safely, albeit slowly, on the same icy interstate.

I empathize with the misery of your commute yesterday. My record is 4 hours from Los Colinas to Arington (Jan 2000). My wife's record is 4.5 hours from downtown Dallas to Euless (Jan 1978). And I'm sorry for you and every poor soul who had to be out there yesterday. But please be a little more tolerant of the rest of us. Nobody asked for this.
 
To be PERFECTLY clear, I am not superior to anyone on the planet in ANY way shape or form nor did I infer such.
I do however have the ability to use common sense in situations like this, can find a SAFE speed at which to travel, have a common sense understanding of increased stopping distances and lateral G forces affecting motor vehicles on ice as well as knowing that control inputs change in dramatic fashion in conditions such as WE ALL experienced yesterday.

I DO however have one expectation and that is that the drivers of motor vehicles should be expected to have the ability to control their four wheeled conveyances at the same level at which the state of Texas expects us to control and be responsible for our bikes.


I guess that's just me.

Don't take any offense. Texans get a daily dose this time of the year from our northern neighbors despite having watched those with an earlier winter post daily car crunching videos on the nightly news. It is an old and common wound and we get a bit defensive. My guess is that Weatherford TX drivers are about the same as Evanstan IL drivers. And the 18 wheel trucks ARE the same drivers as so many have long hauls.

As far as I know we have never closed for cold temps and rarely for snow. Ice is the problem, here and there.
 
Speaking of 2wd traction, remember the hype about FWD and how that was going to end traction problems on ice? Turned out to be a bit of a myth. I remember leaving Dulles and seeing all the front wheel drive cars in the ditches and thinking, wow that was not supposed to happen.
 
Speaking of 2wd traction, remember the hype about FWD and how that was going to end traction problems on ice? Turned out to be a bit of a myth. I remember leaving Dulles and seeing all the front wheel drive cars in the ditches and thinking, wow that was not supposed to happen.

Oh yeah, Reston too. I used to keep a 2nd office there, just 2 exits from Dulles, and spent some nasty wintery weeks there. My observation - FWD is in general better than RWD on the bad stuff, but it's not just that simple. One of my many commuter cars, a lowly Plymouth Horizon, handled everything you threw at it like it was running on rails. My Acura doesn't manage nearly as well, and is slightly prone to the rear end stepping out to the right. Ditto, my '96 Cherokee 4WD was far less competent on ice than my current '07 Grand.
 
Conversations like this are always amusing to me. The most notable thing is how nearly everyone thinks that the vast majority of other drivers are incompetent. The second thing is that, no matter where one lives, that place is likely to have the worst drivers in the world. The third thing that fits into this mix somehow is that studies consistently show that around 80% of all drivers rate themselves as safer and more skillful drivers than the average.

Like many people, I have been known to adopt all three of these views, though none of them ever made me safer.
 
Luckily this year my schedule precluded the need to mix it up out there. Typically I find the over all lack of good judgment astounding. From the jacked up 4x4 with mudder (not icer) tires who in 500 yards will be in the ditch, or in the back of someone as 4x4 is great for going not too helpful in stopping. To the person who is so scared they are doing 20 hazard lights a flashing when reasonably traffic is doing 35. Resulting in everyone swerving around them when they realize how slow they are going.

My favourite memory is my wifes Daytona/laser. Leaving her parents there was a bump/rut thing on the road. If you hit that bad boy right her car would spin 360 degrees everytime. Strangely it was a spin or not thing it never was 180 or 270. either 360 or nothing.

I drove for 10 hours on twisty mountain roads with anywhere from plowed to 6 inches accumulation in white out conditions to see relatives at Christmas. I stayed home Monday!
 
We bow to the superiority of all of you who could expertly negotiate the ice at normal speeds if the rest of us incompetents weren't in your way. Heaven knows why you don't just pull over onto the shoulder and fly by us. :hail:

that's what tj did, several times, driving down from the pan handle yesterday. not the shoulder, tho, the passing lane which no one was using so no path was plowed. he plowed it with his '15 corolla. we're from chicago area. but concur, ice is a different deal than snow. he said the drive was a bit dicey at times.
 
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