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" No Alcohol In Our Gas "

The Ethanol burns cleaner. With the right mixture, you can get more power and zero emissions, but what you do not get is better mileage.

I heard that it takes nearly 2x the alcohol to produce the same result that gasonline produces. But it does so with zero emissions.

My favorite argument is that putting ethanol in our gas makes it cheaper :rolleyes:
 
The Ethanol burns cleaner. QUOTE]

That is true.

With the right mixture, you can get more power and zero emissions,

That is absolutely not true. It takes a lot more than a mixture adjustment to get more power out of a gasoline engine running on ethanol just to get the same power. New pistons are a good start. Oversize injectors and larger diameter fuel lines with high volume pumps and filters are often required. Due to ethanol's affinity for water, best to run an expensive water separator, too. Alcohol burns cleaner than gasoline, but is far from zero emissions. Now the timing curve needs to be advanced to suit alcohol. Once you've gone through all this trouble you'll have exactly the same amount of power as you did when you started and only go a little over half as far on a tank of fuel as you did with gasoline.

I heard that it takes nearly 2x the alcohol to produce the same result that gasonline produces.

Actually, ethanol provides about 5/8 the energy of gasoline, and the ratio varies depending on the grade and specific formulation of gasoline and the purity of the alcohol.

What most people don't realize is that an engine tuned to burn pump gasoline efficiently will be very inefficient burning ethanol. In fact, the ethanol usually won't burn until well past top dead center on the power stroke when the mechanical advantage of the levers involved are at poor ratios for converting heat energy to kinetic energy. So, modify the engine to run 100% ethanol, and still burn almost double the gallons of fuel to achieve a comparable work to gasoline. Forget about running pump gas in an alcohol-tuned engine--you'll knock holes in the pistons within 60 seconds after the engine reaches operating temperature.

My favorite argument is that putting ethanol in our gas makes it cheaper :rolleyes:

Yeah, right.

I helped make the ethanol to run my grandfather's tractor when I was 6 years old. That was my first experience with alternative energy. Since then I've run internal combustion engines on methane from chicken poop, ethanol, methanol, corn oil, hydrogen, compressed natural gas, nitromethane, peanut oil, and gasoline. I won several science fairs with working models of internal and external combustion engines (steam, pulse jet, and gas turbine) operated on alternative fuels. I built an electric cart to fetch the mail, batteries charged by a hydroelectric plant of my own design and construction. I built a solar house that had to be vented in the winter and heated in the summer. Believe, none of these alternative energy sources are new. It doesn't take much study and experience to successfully put any of these energy sources to real work. The powers that be know exactly what they are doing with the energy sources currently available, and their goals are not the highest good for all concerned.
 
I couldn't find one when I was there a few weeks ago. On the way from Midland to Dallas, I got 38 miles per gallon on non-corn petrol. On the way back, with a tank full of E10 (all I can ever find in Dallas), I got 30.

I always cringe whenever I fill up in Dallas. It's always great to get back home to BFE where the petrol is right and proper.

I agree that 10% Ethanol costs in the fuel mileage calculations but there is one other item effecting your results in particular.

:tab:tabMidland, TX elevation ~2800' above sea level.
:tab:tabDallas, TX elevation ~500' above sea level.

I always get better fuel economy coming back to the Metroplex from Midland/Odessa even though the R+M Octane ratings in Midland are 1 or 2 points below the Metroplex.
 
How do the dragsters burn alcohol and go fast? What are the differences between alcohol added to gas and what dragsters use?
 
How do the dragsters burn alcohol and go fast? What are the differences between alcohol added to gas and what dragsters use?

Nitromethane is farrrrrrr from anything remotely alcohol based that you could ever run in your car. Here is a pretty quick little read on it. Yes, dragsters burn the stuff and go fast, but it takes well over 5 times the fuel to do it.

http://www.smokemup.com/tech/fuels.php

Summary - As you can see from table 1 above the clear winner is nitromethane. But that doesn't mean to go out and pour nitromethane in your car and see how it runs, if you do your engine will surely blow up. Nitromethane is very expensive and dangerous to handle. The interesting alternative to gasoline is Methanol. Methanol will make more power, typically around 20% more power than a similar engine running gasoline. Some things to consider in running methanol is your fuel system will have to be completely changed / upgraded. Based on the table above the fuel system will have to flow approximately 2.5 times as much as the gasoline engine.
 
So do they sell that crap in New Braunfels? I was on fumes when I filled up my 650 a few months ago at a station on 35 and the bike started running like **** for no apparent reason! I didn't pay much attention to the gas mileage riding home but the bike sure ran different. The XR is completely uncorked and runs great on my local "BFE" gas but that tank full of gas made it run like it was pulling a trailer or something! You know what I mean when you "know your bike"?
It just didn't have it's usual "pep".:shrug: Like it didn't have any power. I know what "bad gas" is so I can't call it that but after filling it up again locally it runs great.:scratch: Again I'm not talking gas mileage here, I'm talking horsepower.
 
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Why dosent the government give the consumers a choice?

Because they know what's best for you. Stop asking questions, or they'll send some black Tahoes 'round to your place for a little "talk". :lol:
 
Because they know what's best for you. Stop asking questions, or they'll send some black Tahoes 'round to your place for a little "talk". :lol:

The helos are already circling high above with a HALO team at the ready....
spy.gif
 
Indy cars and alcohol dragsters used to run 100% ethanol, then the sanctioning bodies required an additive to make the flames visible should a fire break out. A dedicated alcohol engine will make more power than a dedicated gasoline engine, and I'll go along with a fuel burn rate of 2.2 to 2.5 times as many gallons per run as gasoline. Fuel dragsters and glow-ignition model engines burn a mixture of ethanol and nitromethane. This fuel provides a very high horsepower potential, such as the AMA Quickee 500 pylon engines of 2/5 cubic inch making 7+ horsepower. Yup, 18hp per cid. Plain old sport glow engines make 4hp/cid. If a TW200 had that level of output per displacement it would be nearly 50hp instead of 15.

By the way, my grandfather's tractor was homemade. It had an inline 4 from some '20-something Chevrolet with the head shaved to up the compression, driving through a non-synchronized granny gear truck 4-speed into a VW microbus transaxle with the reduction boxes. With the trannies in low-low it would pull a house, and in high-high, well, not too many tractors could do 60mph on pavement.

Oh, before anyone brings up the alcohol injection kits of the 1950s and 1960s, and the fact that piston engines on gasoline often used alcohol injection to increase horsepower, this particular technology used a fine mist of alcohol vapor to cool the intake charge, providing a more dense combustion chamber fill of air and gasoline, and thus, more power. In gasohol, alcohol and gasoline are together and the alcohol does not seem to provide the intake charge cooling as dedicated alcohol injection.
 
Indy cars and alcohol dragsters used to run 100% ethanol, then the sanctioning bodies required an additive to make the flames visible should a fire break out. A dedicated alcohol engine will make more power than a dedicated gasoline engine, and I'll go along with a fuel burn rate of 2.2 to 2.5 times as many gallons per run as gasoline. Fuel dragsters and glow-ignition model engines burn a mixture of ethanol and nitromethane. This fuel provides a very high horsepower potential, such as the AMA Quickee 500 pylon engines of 2/5 cubic inch making 7+ horsepower. Yup, 18hp per cid. Plain old sport glow engines make 4hp/cid. If a TW200 had that level of output per displacement it would be nearly 50hp instead of 15.

By the way, my grandfather's tractor was homemade. It had an inline 4 from some '20-something Chevrolet with the head shaved to up the compression, driving through a non-synchronized granny gear truck 4-speed into a VW microbus transaxle with the reduction boxes. With the trannies in low-low it would pull a house, and in high-high, well, not too many tractors could do 60mph on pavement.

Oh, before anyone brings up the alcohol injection kits of the 1950s and 1960s, and the fact that piston engines on gasoline often used alcohol injection to increase horsepower, this particular technology used a fine mist of alcohol vapor to cool the intake charge, providing a more dense combustion chamber fill of air and gasoline, and thus, more power. In gasohol, alcohol and gasoline are together and the alcohol does not seem to provide the intake charge cooling as dedicated alcohol injection.
:clap: You have my undivided attention!!:mrgreen:
 
+1 lemme know too. Right now I have a lil over a half tank of the good stuff left over from the okc trip. and that explains my better mileage on the way back which I did not clock for mpg but was looking at the fuel guage and it kinda looked like it had more left in the tank after the trip back than the trip out there :ponder:


Is the Cresson race track too far out for you guys?

The Station at the entrance drive has the Alky Free gas.

I know some folks that tote gas cans in their cars to haul back gas for their bikes... :rider:
 
Is the Cresson race track too far out for you guys?

The Station at the entrance drive has the Alky Free gas.

I know some folks that tote gas cans in their cars to haul back gas for their bikes... :rider:

Good to know. I get out that way fairly often. :thumb:
 
Methanol damaging engines???

Mechanics see ethanol damaging small engines
Fuel blend, already implicated in high food prices, linked to rise in repairs

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/


By Alex Johnson
Reporter
MSNBC
updated 8:44 a.m. CT, Fri., Aug. 1, 2008
Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and he’s been busier than ever lately.

Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. “It looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out,” Kitchings said.

The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.
 
Hmmm, I'm going to call a slight BS on this one. We've had an Echo string trimmer and an Echo hedge trimmer for 5 years now at our warehouse and we've been using the E10 crap for a couple years in them and nothing has ever happened to them.

I'd be willing to bet that this guy was using ONLY the ethanol laced fuel and no pre-mix oil in his two cycle trimmer. I'm not saying that the stuff isn't bad for motors, but you'd think it would be more widespread if it was really happening to all these brand new, off the shelf small engines.
 
Indy cars and alcohol dragsters used to run 100% ethanol, then the sanctioning bodies required an additive to make the flames visible should a fire break out. A dedicated alcohol engine will make more power than a dedicated gasoline engine, and I'll go along with a fuel burn rate of 2.2 to 2.5 times as many gallons per run as gasoline. Fuel dragsters and glow-ignition model engines burn a mixture of ethanol and nitromethane.

Actually "Methanol" was used in Indy cars from the mid 70's ( after many explosive gasoline crashes/fires ) until the 2006 Indy 500 when "Ethanol"
was introduced. Indy cars ( IRL nor CART ) converted to 100% Ethanol for the 2007 season and beyond. Methanol has always been the "alcohol" fuel used in NHRA for alcohol sportsman classes and the 10% "mixture" used in the professional nitro classes.
 
Mechanics see ethanol damaging small engines
Fuel blend, already implicated in high food prices, linked to rise in repairs

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/


By Alex Johnson
Reporter
MSNBC
updated 8:44 a.m. CT, Fri., Aug. 1, 2008
Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and he’s been busier than ever lately.

Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. “It looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out,” Kitchings said.

The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.

Hmmm, I'm going to call a slight BS on this one. We've had an Echo string trimmer and an Echo hedge trimmer for 5 years now at our warehouse and we've been using the E10 crap for a couple years in them and nothing has ever happened to them.

I'd be willing to bet that this guy was using ONLY the ethanol laced fuel and no pre-mix oil in his two cycle trimmer. I'm not saying that the stuff isn't bad for motors, but you'd think it would be more widespread if it was really happening to all these brand new, off the shelf small engines.

There is no doubt that gasohol harms engines, but I agree with Bill, not that quickly, unless no oil, or, he let the machine sit for a couple months. Gasohol will separate over time. Gasoline floats to the top and the engine is basically running on pure ethanol if the machine isn't well shaken before starting. Another problem with alcohol is its affinity for water. Possibly enough water was absorbed to cause corrosion issues that cntributed to wear.

Actually "Methanol" was used in Indy cars from the mid 70's ( after many explosive gasoline crashes/fires ) until the 2006 Indy 500 when "Ethanol"
was introduced. Indy cars ( IRL nor CART ) converted to 100% Ethanol for the 2007 season and beyond. Methanol has always been the "alcohol" fuel used in NHRA for alcohol sportsman classes and the 10% "mixture" used in the professional nitro classes.

Thanks for straightening that out. I remember the switch to alcohol. It was about the time I graduated high school, also about the time my grandfather passed away. I remember my cousin, who worked on an Indy car pit crew, wishing he could ask the old man about tuning for ethanol. Perhaps the choice of alcohol was under discussion at the time. I never ran NHRA alcohol sportsman classes. I ran ET brackets with a former econo-rail on ethanol, because ethanol was what I knew how to make.
 
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