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THE TWTex XR400 Thread.

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focus frenzy said:
it depends on the capacitor.
there are a bunch of diagrams including half wave and fancy full wave peak voltage adapters and some show polarized some show not.
the important thing is spinning over the motor enough to build up the capacitor till its full.
Click to expand...

Does it? Does it care which side the +'s are on and which side the -'s are on? What little bit of electrimagic I was taught, beaucoup years ago (OK, I may have forgotten) was that it didn't matter. And tossing someone a charged capacitor was pretty much a hanging offense in Rickover's Navy. (if reported)
 
garfey said:
I'm not an electrical-ician; does a capacitor care?
Click to expand...
two answers in one:

Standard schematic convention using the diagram posted indicates the top of the cap is positive. And, I too, have had too many years pass by after learning that theory. Leon is correct in his definitions per half wave and full wave. If it gives the expected reading then semantics won't matter.


yes and no. the circuit appears to be a voltage booster which requires a polarized[usually electrolytic] to be properly oriented or it won't function correctly in the circuit. Also placing a polarized capacitor backwards in the circuit can cause malfunction up to and including explosively expelling the guts of said item. Smells really stinky, too. Don't ask how I know.:trust:
 
The capicator I used tonight doesn't care. ;-) I guess that's a half-wave. Idk. Either way..... Suspicions confirmed. Using my peak voltage tester, I was able to see about 24.75v (+/- .3) out of both stators, using two different mulitmeters. My cheap piece, and a coworkers $150mm. The capacitor bleeds out pretty quick, but I did my best snapping pics as soon as the capicator looked charged. (About 5 solid kicks, but kept going past 5 every time to make sure)

I mean.... I've either got two bad stators, two bad mulitmeters, or one bad flywheel.

Also- the previous owner is the one who installed the stator. I called the shop he allegedly took it to and spoke to the mechanic. He said they use Ricky stators if there's a need for more voltage, but normally like to have the OEM stators rewound. The shop specializes in old Honda z50s, and CT70s, and they guy was very confident they did not work on my, or any other xr400 for that matter. He said the closest thing he's had to an xr4 in the last year or two was an old xr350.

So... PO changed the stator for some reason. And I have a flywheel with visible damage. Draw whatever conclusion you will.
IMG_20150502_225933982_zpsirt3pvmo.jpg


IMG_20150502_225733188_zpsxh2q4njv.jpg


Again, the capacitor bled down pretty quick, but these were pretty close to where it peaked
 
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single diode= half wave, four diode= full wave.
full wave adapters charge up the capacitor twice as fast.

141605759_jkN6g-M.jpg
 
OK, I'm gonna SWAG[scientific wild ___ guess] it: bad flywheel that may be improperly installed. Keep at it! I can almost taste that BBQ now!
 
hmmm I wonder who came up with the possible bad rotor idea?:mrgreen:

of course rotor speed = output if you kick it like a girly man the output will be low.:lol2:
 
Shoot, I'm always the guy sitting on a running bike impatiently hollering at a buddy, "dude, you need me to get my sister to kick it for you? Set your purse down and kick it like you're trying to hurt it"

Really, its the stator(s) or the rotor.

I was reading some on banshee HQ (huge Yamaha banshee forum) and a lot if guys get aftermarket stators to run bigger lights, and make DC conversions easy. IF I do have two bad ElectroSport stators in a row... Well, I'm certainly not the first guy.
 
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Rotors do go bad, get a engine hot enough and it will kill those ceramic magnets.
Back in the good old days it was kind of common to have to recharge the magnets in a magneto.
 
Well if you look back that the pics, the rotor as obviously gotten hotter than HE77 on at least one occasion. Add in the dents on the inside on the thin piece of metal covering said magnets, well, that plus the consistent VAC readings (actually, with the peak adapter you have to test VDC) between two new stators, and all signs point to a bad rotor.... Fingers crossed

IMG_20150422_223107136_HDR_zpsqlnkoj9e.jpg



Here's what a nice pretty one looks like. Check the burnt on oil on the magnets on the old one, vs new (to me)


IMG_20150427_191602706_HDR_zpsnn2xej9f.jpg
 
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Well, its a keeper, and I've got so much time invested in it now, I can't turn back.

Seriously, It will not beat me. Like I always tell guys, "dude, its just nuts and bolts. Throw the right combination of time, money, and brain cells at any problem, and you'll solve it"

So let's say I put the new stator on, and my voltage output stays the same, I'll declare myself as the 1 of 10000 people that got two bad stators in a row. The one that came with the bike will be shipped to Rick's for a custom rewind, and the ElectroSport I bought will be refunded.
 
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When my customers ask me if it can be fixed, I always say " given enough time and MONEY, I can fix anything"! Operative word: MONEY. Ha!!
 
thrill-billy85 said:
Well if you look back that the pics, the rotor as obviously gotten hotter than HE77 on at least one occasion. Add in the dents on the inside on the thin piece of metal covering said magnets, well, that plus the consistent VAC readings (actually, with the peak adapter you have to test VDC) between two new stators, and all signs point to a bad rotor.... Fingers crossed

IMG_20150422_223107136_HDR_zpsqlnkoj9e.jpg



Here's what a nice pretty one looks like. Check the burnt on oil on the magnets on the old one, vs new (to me)


IMG_20150427_191602706_HDR_zpsnn2xej9f.jpg
Click to expand...
Thats why I think you need a POLARIZED ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITOR that will charge up and not discharge to get the right reading. Just my .02. good luck! Is the BBQ warmed up?
 
I mean, I see what you're saying, but the number I'm wanting to see is 50+ volts. I'm nowhere NEAR that. I understand that the actual peak output could've possibly been higher, but how much higher? 26v? That's like 105% higher than this test showed. I was able to see it peak around 24v with both stators, and both multimeter's, so I'm gonna lean on a limb, and my own elementary understanding and say that either way, its not enough juice.

I was reading some of the articles on Rick's electric site, and there's an article about how important a good rotor is. The context leads me to understand that with a cracked magnet or two, it can distort the sensitive magnetic field enough so that a stator will not produce sufficient power. The magnets are still there, and they still feel like magnets, but they don't have the same field as they should've.

Bottom line- I need my **** flywheel puller so I can keep going. I've even called all over town looking for an m20x1.5 bolt to use, and no luck
 
Which brings me to another question. The stock Honda stator is said to produce 100v according to the manual, why is it the ElectroSport stator only need to produce 50v?

Perhaps the tech guy is wrong?
 
focus frenzy said:
wow, I am getting old I was only able to build up 128 millivolts thumb to thumb and I am right hand positive.
Click to expand...

you could up that substantially by standing inside a strong RF field. Like in front of a high power military radar system:trust::rofl:
 
thrill-billy85 said:
Which brings me to another question. The stock Honda stator is said to produce 100v according to the manual, why is it the ElectroSport stator only need to produce 50v?

Perhaps the tech guy is wrong?
Click to expand...

thrill-billy85 said:
I mean, I see what you're saying, but the number I'm wanting to see is 50+ volts. I'm nowhere NEAR that. I understand that the actual peak output could've possibly been higher, but how much higher? 26v? That's like 105% higher than this test showed. I was able to see it peak around 24v with both stators, and both multimeter's, so I'm gonna lean on a limb, and my own elementary understanding and say that either way, its not enough juice.

I was reading some of the articles on Rick's electric site, and there's an article about how important a good rotor is. The context leads me to understand that with a cracked magnet or two, it can distort the sensitive magnetic field enough so that a stator will not produce sufficient power. The magnets are still there, and they still feel like magnets, but they don't have the same field as they should've.

Bottom line- I need my **** flywheel puller so I can keep going. I've even called all over town looking for an m20x1.5 bolt to use, and no luck
Click to expand...


the ignition charge coil output needs to be minimum 100 volts.
the electrical system stator coils need to generate a minimum of 50 volts.
 
wanabeguru said:
you could up that substantially by standing inside a strong RF field. Like in front of a high power military radar system:trust::rofl:
Click to expand...

there used to be one on the south end of the Carswell AFB runway but development right on the fence was causing issues and they had to relocate the radar.
I do deal with unregulated 500+ volt three phase generators (yes, unregulated!) I will try to take a reading next to one of them.
 
OK, back to the subject. Why is the flywheel "frozen"? Is it improperly mounted? And what about magnets? I suppose a new one will answer all that and more. I'm home sick from work[double entdre] so can keep track today. good luck!
 
the V-strom have a issue that sometimes crop up where one or more of the magnets break loose (glued in place) and just one magnet shifting over and contacting another magnet will kill the output of the stator.
 
wanabeguru said:
OK, back to the subject. Why is the flywheel "frozen"? Is it improperly mounted? And what about magnets? I suppose a new one will answer all that and more. I'm home sick from work[double entdre] so can keep track today. good luck!
Click to expand...

the flywheel sits on a shallow taper and its a real tight fit, it takes a bolt (20mm X 1.5 pitch) screwed into the hole in the middle to pop it loose.

I don't know why they did it that way on this engine, it is keyed and it uses a kick start so there is no need for that locking taper.

old school motorcycle charging systems don't use or need the key but have a one way bearing mounted to the back of the rotor that is used to turn the engine over with the electric starter motor so they use a tight taper to lock the rotor down.
 
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