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Did I kill my Li-ion battery?

I've had a Shorai in my FZ1 for about a year and half with no issues. It's been through it's second winter season (as much winter as we get here) and I like the fact that it still holds its charge in the cold, even if the bike sits for a bit.

When I bought the Shorai, I was more sold on it holding it's charge when sitting vs the light weight. Although I will admit that it's much easier to put my bike on a diet than me on a diet. Good thing the bike doesn't run on beer like I do :lol2:
 
My $0.02 worth.

About four years ago I put a Shorai in a KTM950Adv and inadvertently pinched a wire during install. It was discharged down to low voltage when I tried to start it the next day. This ruined the battery. Shorai graciously offered to replace it under warranty, but couldn't deliver before a planned vacation, so I took a store credit from the vendor and bought an AGM locally.

The Shorai customer service confirmed that the nature of these batteries was that when taken down to low voltages it causes irreparable damage and it cannot be recovered. My Shorai charged back up to voltage, but would no longer hold the voltage over time.

Many people are using these successfully, but in the end there is a price to pay for the weight savings. That price is resiliency against deep discharge. Lead-acid will have a better chance of recovery in this scenario, though they too can be permanently damaged like this as well, often a recharge will result in a working battery. Perhaps with less life overall, but still usable.

I later installed another of this type of battery, from Ballistic, on my DRZ, and it failed early as well. Less than a year lifespan. Though no pinched wires this time, and there are no electronics draining the battery when the key is off.

For my money I will take the weight penalty and simply run an AGM as it offers me a better chance of recovery in these situations and a more dependable lifespan.

I think yours may be toast.

Shorai has excellent customer service and they shoot straight with the customer regarding the limitations, charging differences, and they are generous with their replacement policy in my experience.

The technology is remarkable in how it can deliver greater energy from a smaller package. In the long run I think the application might be better suited to electric vehicles that have circuitry built-in to better control the charge and discharge envelopes to accommodate the battery's unique characteristics.

As a replacement in a standard automobile application there are scenarios that are common enough to damage the battery. It really needs to have a built-in relay that opens when the voltage gets near the danger zone. However, such a circuit would itself require power to operate and would be self-defeating on vehicles left without a tender for any significant length of time.

Well, this has turned into yet another LiPO vs. "other" thread, but you make some salient points.

Some OEM motorcycle manufacturers, KTM for one, have spec'd lithium batteries in their new bikes already, so they are coming from OEM.

You had the misfortune to pick another brand, Ballistic, that does not have a great quality track record.

Last, you mention electronics to limit voltage extremes. Earth X lithium batteries already have this feature, along with built in cell balance electronics. These batteries work flawlessly, and their cold weather performance is outstanding as well. I was stupid enough to buy a KTM (my SX) that doesn't have a kick start option, so I made sure I put in the best battery available, which in my opinion I did.

I don't notice back up crank starters sticking out the front of automobiles anymore. I assume this is because electric starters on cars evolved and improved to the point cranks were not necessary anymore. Lithium motorcycle batteries have been on the consumer market, what, five years or so? They are already much improved and they will be the standard very soon. Luddites need to get on board.:mrgreen:
 
For what it's worth, the battery seems to be holding charge. 12.7 volts.

If it lasts the weekend, including several trips to/from COTA, then I'm calling the battery "working" and will continue to ignore it until it causes problems again.
 
For what it's worth, the battery seems to be holding charge. 12.7 volts.

If it lasts the weekend, including several trips to/from COTA, then I'm calling the battery "working" and will continue to ignore it until it causes problems again.

Cool, although if your resting voltage is 12.7, then your battery definitely took a direct blow because of the deep discharge. Charged resting voltage for your battery should hold over 13 volts.

Anyway, keep an eye on it. You may be on borrowed time or it may last for a while.
 
Mine metered at just 12+ volts after the discharge, until I put a load on it. Then it would go back down to below 6V. It was nearer to 14V out of the box.

Regardless, the proof is in the pudding. If it works, don't fix it. ;-)

Johnf3,

Not so much a Luddist, as I wouldn't have given LithiumIron another go if that were so. I was simply choosing the solution that would work for me at the time for a number of reasons. As it was for my situations old school is what made the two bikes go vroom-vroom. I did what I had to do based on the circumstances. That worked, for me, at that moment.

I fully suspect that in the near future the technology will get through these growing pains and might even displace lead-acid batteries for these applications. Early adopters will always suffer the growing pains with any new tech.

Just replaced the AGM in the DRZ again yesterday. Got two years out of the last one. Not optimal in my book, but, I may have a tender that is malfunctioning or something like that which led to an early demise. The replacement was $75, so the price difference with the Shorai is getting narrower.

Glad to hear that some manufacturers are installing circuitry to help prevent over-discharge. Adding electronic self-defense mechanisms is the most important thing they can do to promote the genre.
 
Mine metered at just 12+ volts after the discharge, until I put a load on it. Then it would go back down to below 6V. It was nearer to 14V out of the box.

Regardless, the proof is in the pudding. If it works, don't fix it. ;-)

Johnf3,

Not so much a Luddist, as I wouldn't have given LithiumIron another go if that were so.

I know, I was just poking fun at all of us. Many times I have a touch of this myself. Comes with advanced middle aging I guess.
 
For those playing along at home...

It's been a couple of weeks, and I've had no issues since my initial dead battery. I've ridding several times but never for very long, and let it sit for several days between rides. The battery hasn't touched the tender since that one-time, one-hour charge. I can't see how that one-hour connected to the battery tender brought it from ~4v to 13v - but since it's working fine now, I'm going to ignore it.

So, all's well that ends well...
 
Thanks for the follow-up. I have more than a slight interest in your experience with two bikes in the stable running this Shorai batteries. To date, my biggest complaint is having to let the headlight burn on really cold mornings, but then I rarely ride on really cold mornings. Shorai is clearly on the bleeding edge and has some work to do, but I've never read a story about a failure that didn't have some abuse in it somewhere. Abuse is to be expected though and the future lithium batteries will no doubt be better.

Years ago an outdoor journalist teased Colin Fletcher of The Complete Walker fame about cutting the end off of his toothbrush to keep the weight of his pack down. Fletcher's reply was "If you watch the ounces the pounds look after themselves." Works for bikes, too.

m
 
For those playing along at home...

It's been a couple of weeks, and I've had no issues since my initial dead battery. I've ridding several times but never for very long, and let it sit for several days between rides. The battery hasn't touched the tender since that one-time, one-hour charge. I can't see how that one-hour connected to the battery tender brought it from ~4v to 13v - but since it's working fine now, I'm going to ignore it.

So, all's well that ends well...

+1 on that. I have ridden mine for a couple of weeks now with no issues.;-)
 
To date, my biggest complaint is having to let the headlight burn on really cold mornings,

m

LOL I freaked out on my first cold morning start with the lithium battery. It cranked slowly, like it was almost dead. I was thinking this battery didn't last. I didn't realized it had to warm up first. Bad thing is that the headlight on my FZ1 doesn't come on until the bike is running. No biggie though. I just crank it a couple of times and she speeds up and cranks over.
 
Shorai ...they shoot straight with the customer regarding the limitations, charging differences...

I rather feel Shorai misrepresented themselves. The name Shorai is Japanese meaning "future". And the company logo is a unmistakable red meatball of Nippon. So, you would think this is a Japan company. But nope. The batteries are made in China.
 
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Products being made in China in no way means Shorai is not a Japanese co. Maybe it is, maybe its not, but that is not the test.
 
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