More NSS250A4 questions

Hey guys! Just joined up yesterday, after exhausting all other possibilities of trying to figure this out myself. My '04 Reflex NSS250A4 is currently being restored after picking it up through trade from other who had picked it up through trade and couldn't get signs of life out of it. Did a title search through the State of Texas and found out that the bike was totaled out due to flood damage.....That's where the nightmare begins. The title was the easy part. All of the electrical connectors were almost completely corroded. Cleaned them up really well, and since a few of the wires had snapped loose from the connectors, I simply bypassed the connectors and tied back in with butt-splices. Checked for continuity and everything was OK there, but I know the entire harness is going to get replaced anyways.

The issue is that, even with a good battery, this thing will not even attempt to turn over. I'm getting power, constant 13.5v supplied as it's kept on a maintainer when I'm messing with it. There was no side stand switch on it when I got it, and the previous owner had simply tied the two wires together. Also, the wires for the handle bar brake lever on the right had been jumped together with a piece of solid strand wire. Assuming that was an attempt to bypass the brake switch, hoping that would make it spin, but it didn't as the problem is obviously elsewhere. I have 9 ohms going to where the side stand switch would be, between the two wires that connect to the switch, no voltage there. Can the wires for the side stand switch be safely spliced together? Also purchased a new starter relay, and the old and new relays will spin the starter when you jump across the terminals. The engine is fine, and had no water in it whatsoever, but I'm thinking that it had to have been almost completely submerged for almost all of the terminals to have corroded like that. The 3 relays in front of my handle bars are all new. I've always got at least 12.5v going to the ICM and to the regulator as those were the only two connectors on the bike that didn't corrode. If the bike was submerged with a live battery, then they're gonna be toast. The fuses are good and of correct size, but the terminals in there for the fuses were corroded to ****, and are clean now but I get continuity there.

I'm suspecting a dead ICM and or voltage regulator. I've tried to test them in every way that I could thing of (ohms, volts, alternating between earth ground on bike and between all of the pins on the ICM and regulator. Maybe I'm not testing the correct points? Everything else on the bike seems to work, and I've noticed that when the headlights are connected, they'll go dim when hitting the start button. Since it doesn't have a foot brake, I've squeezed the handle brakes hard enough to make them touch the grips, and still nothing. The lights will dim whether the hand brakes are squeezed or not, so I'm thinking at least one of those brake switches is damaged. The lights shouldn't dim if the brake switches are working correctly as they are not engaged, correct? I really could use some instruction on how to properly test this ICM and regulator. I've managed to find a video on youtube showing how to test Honda CDIs, but no matter which pin combinations I check, I get nothing, whether they're connected to their respective harnesses or not.

I should also add, that I have no spark, which makes me suspect a dead ignition control module. You shouldn't have spark when jumping across the terminals on the starter relay, correct? All assistance would be greatly appreciated!

That's a bunch of info for one post...and assumptions...couple questions, too.

First, no, just jumping the starter will not give you spark. You have to have the ignition system on a working for that to happen, and the engine has to turn over so the ignitor fires and the ICM sends the right signals for spark.

You say the starter spins, with old and new relay. Is that on or off the bike?

Does the engine actually spin? How did you spin it? The light going dim tells me the starter has engaged, but the engine is seized.

There are ways to loosen a seized engine - none of them short of a rebuild are pretty, but they can work. One method is to remove the plugs, and fill the pots with kerosene. Let it sit for a while (I let them sit for a week). Use a wooden dowel to tap the pistons, and moving between cylinders (is this a twin?) you might knock the rings loose. Once you do, turn it over gently until it spins freely like it's supposed to. Drain and fill the engine with oil. Run it, and change the oil after about 10-15 miles. It's going to deteriorate quickly with the engine full of kerosene.

Let me (us) know.

Yes sir, I was just trying to cover all of the bases. The fewer posts, the better IMO. The engine isn't seized at all. The starter will engage the motor with the old OR new relay(s) connected to the bike, but only when jumping across the terminals. So far, it's the only way to spin the motor over. The headlights and tail lights dim when the start button is pressed, but the starter does not engage that way currently. When the starter relay is jumped, the lights still dim, but not nearly as bad and the starter and motor both spin. Flushing the motor and changing the oil was the very first thing I did. Fresh gas and fresh filter, but that's kind of pointless at the moment. It's a single cylinder motor, with a fresh plug. The first step has to be getting the starter to engage the motor by pressing the start button, and currently that isn't happening, which is why I'm suspecting the ICM more-so than the voltage regulator. The starter is definitely engaging the motor. I appreciate the response!

Back up a bit.

You can jump relays and spin the motor but not with the button. Have you cleaned the contacts in the button or replaced it with a known good part?

What else is tied into the starting system? Kickstand switch? Does the circuit need to be opened or closed to start?

Clutch switch?

Neutral switch?

Kill switch? Are contacts in switch clean? I had a Wing that would crank over but not run due to dirty contacts.

Start with this stuff. Then move to the ignition. It's prolly something simple since everything is corroded.

The ICM has not a thing to do with the starter circuit. It only has to do with firing the plugs.

Here's your manual link. http://www.49ccscoot.com/manuals/2001-2007_Honda_NSS250_Reflex_Service_Manual.pdf

OK, the kickstand switch is gone. The wires that are supposed to connect to it were tied together. The neutral safety switch has been replaced, and I have cleaned my start and kill switch(es) out, but they really weren't that bad, just their respective connectors. The start switch has not been replaced, but could very well be an issue. The main wiring harness was in horrible shape and I repaired it the best I could. It wouldn't surprise me if the main harness was just too jacked up at this point. I was hoping to not have to chase parts but since it was almost completely submerged, it seems inevitable. I'll leave the ICM alone, and replace the kill, start, brake and clutch switches and go from there. The main harness is only $125 with free shipping, so I might as well get that one too. I'll let you guys know how it goes when everything comes in, but thanks for the help anyways.

If it were me, which it's not, before replacing anything, I'd go through the various parts of the starting system one by one and rule them out. You've proven the starter will spin the motor, so the motor's not seized, and the starter itself works.

Test the kickstand switch. I know, it's gone, but those wires connect into the harness somewhere. Disconnect at the connector, and check for continuity.

Then the kill (engine stop) switch...and the actual starter button.

You'll have to spend some time on the electrical diagram, and follow everything to figure out what else is in the circuit. The lights dimming is telling, too. Obviously, that's a big draw.

When you short the relay the starter spins the motor. I'm not certain what you mean here. I've shorted starters plenty of times. Did you short from the battery side to the 12v>starter side? If so, that doesn't test the relay at all, only bypasses it.

Have you pulled the connector from the the relay to see if you're actually getting voltage from the switching circuits?

One test you can do to test the starting system is to provide 12v to the switch side of the relay. You can use just about any piece of wire to do it. From the battery directly to the terminal on the starter relay the switch should be sending voltage to.

So there's a couple things you can try.

If the bike was completely submerged for more than a second or two, you can rest assured this is just the beginning of the electrical gremlins you'll be chasing. At $125, I wouldn't even try fixing the harness, I'd just replace it. Over time, that submersion is going to cause you all kinds of headaches. The only real difference between sinking a car and sinking a bike is the harness is easier to replace, and there are fewer sub-harnesses.

Awesome chaissos! I was bypassing the starter relay all together when I was saying that I was jumping it, but that was really just to help circulate the new oil and to make sure that nothing was locked up. I really do appreciate the time you guys spent on helping me out here. Normally when my electronics get wet, I replace them anyways, but considering what this bike may or may not have been through, it wouldn't hurt to completely restore it. The only part I'm not looking forward to is putting the body back on in order lol I've got the actual manual for the bike and have had the PDF for a while too, and apparently there's not much to the circuitry. It's always been drilled into my head that if it's not broken, don't fix it, but I like to test things out to better understand why they do what they do. Unfortunately for me though, self-taught mechanics like myself, don't always get a "why" lol I did find two broken frame grounds by the ICM and voltage regulator that I had missed, and was only getting about 8 volts at the starter relay. I now know which was to go, and will stop for now until the harness gets here. Just couldn't pass that one up for that price! I'll let you guys know how it goes and thank you all very much! It's awesome to have found this forum and even more awesome that it's all people from my neck of the woods!

Since the motor and starter spin and you plan to replace the wiring harness why not replace it now. That should eliminate a lot of the possible problems. I would also replace the relays as they are not expensive and will again remove them as possible sources of problem.